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Posted: 12/19/2007 3:12:29 PM EDT
[#1]
This is particularly interesting in that up until, what a year ago? there was a Chesapeake Knife and Tool on the upper level that must have had a hundred different knives for sale. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 3:33:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Someone ought to tell that to Dick's Sporting Goods on the second floor, they have evil rifles, shotguns, knives, axes, and of course deadly bows and arrows  --Olivers_AR PS: Yes the manager must take your ffl purchase to the counter and hand it to you as you head out the parking lot door. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 5:42:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Oh, that's fucking rich... A sporting goods store that sells guns and knives in that self same mall. Oh. My. God. Just as an FYI; Dick's carries your stuff outside at other locations as well. TR |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 6:54:40 PM EDT
[#4]
I long time ago I bought a 92 at Sports Authority. I know.
Anyway, they handed it to me outside the store 
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Posted: 12/19/2007 6:56:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Well I guess I must be a criminal after buying a knife in Dick's and carrying it in a bag to my car through the mall. I guess the Leatherman needs to stay in the car before I go in also.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 7:17:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Short Pump Town Center Mall in Richmond is the same way. No guns allowed in the mall. If I buy a shotgun at Dicks and go out one door to the outer parking lot, I'm fine. If I go out the other door and into the mall area, I'm in violation.
As an aside, I sent a letter to the mall manager the other day saying that until they change their anti-gun policy, I feel that my business is unwelcomed and I'll be shopping elsewhere. Jim |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 8:12:37 PM EDT
[#7]
That's awesome Jim. I wonder how many letters like that it would take to get them to amend their policy? |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 8:31:07 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 12/19/2007 8:35:35 PM EDT
[#9]
I agree. In almost 9 years of living here and many conversations with LCSO officers, every one I've interacted with up until this has been friendly and courteous. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 9:40:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Please clarify something for me. I always thought that if you carried onto private property that prohibited carry by the owner, then the worse you could be charged with is trespassing, and only if you refused to leave after being asked to do so. |
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Posted: 12/20/2007 4:30:51 AM EDT
[#11]
FWIW
You can write all the letters you want, the mall is not changing anything till they see a drop in their bottom line. Want to get attention, call 10 on your side or whatever it is up their and get them to do a story on Why I don't feel safe at the mall anymore...... Second point, you will never win with a cop in the field. That is their training to take control of the situation not to sit there and debate. The debate was over the minute he got off his ass and came over. Talking to your wife that way was out of line but they were just doing their job, giving shopper sheep the perception of safety. I have a friend who is the general manager of a large mall in Hampton Roads area. He wanted to oust some of the stores because they were drawing a different demographic and as a result attracting an unattractive element. The response they did not care who came to the mall as long as they brought their money. Period. Rules are inconspicuous for a reason, so THEY can use them against someone if necessary to throw them out. They are not going to post anything that gives someone second thought and causes them to take their money elsewhere. For example, It is also illegal to be drunk in public, but you do not see signs anywhere saying if you under the influence stay out.... If you are in there a little drunk, you are welcome to stay and spend some money, stop spending and disrupt others from spending and out come the rules and Mall Cops. You want to change a mall's policy, convince them that we (gun owners and carriers) will pack the place (thousands every day) and spend lots of money when we come in. You do that, then you will see "Shooter Sales" and even Hallmark will have a "Reloader Day" card. My 2 cents. Pack, stay concealed at all times, and NEVER flash or print. If a place is selling alcohol, stay out or there. R/ Mike VA Beach
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Posted: 12/20/2007 8:08:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Exactly right. During a face-to-face, it does not matter WHAT the law is or who is right if you are the citizen; your only focus should be on saying as little as possible to the government officer, tell the truth, and avoid arrest at any cost. Think about the alternative: even if you manage to "win" in front of a judge many weeks and thousands of dollars later, you will still have an arrest record - along with all the criminals. Good luck to you trying to get that cleared and trying to get every computer data base all over the US purged of your "arrest." Get arrested and you are marked with little hope of having that mark removed. Aren't computers and the internet great? Its similar to the victims of identity theft who never did anything wrong - yet they still suffer from questionable credit histories and have to spend their own time & $$$ trying to get back to normal. Starting to sound familiar to you? Follow the law & stay out of trouble. Let VCDL take on the beat cops & deputies. |
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Posted: 12/20/2007 9:09:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Correct. At worst, if you are arrested, it's a Class 1 Misdemeanor charge of trespassing. It is not a firearm offense and it will not prohibit you from possessing a firearm. But that's just for the first offense. I don't know what it becomes for subsequent offenses, but I'm sure it becomes a felony at some point. Then you're really fucked. _MaH |
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Posted: 12/25/2007 8:39:46 AM EDT
[#14]
The way I see it is your logic was bad. Why in the world would you want to call attention to yourself like that? You know there are other places you could have eaten at where you would not have had any problem.
Everything that happened after you took your jacket off is at root something you caused yourself. If I see someone sitting armed in a public place without a LEO uniform on you can bet I am going to keep a serious eyeball on them myself. To be honest I really would not want my family around such a person. These days you just never know. Sure you have the right to carry open but you need to ask yourself...is it wise? Do you make others uncomfortable? You wish you had a do-over? I read thread after thread here about this type of thing on this forum and the root cause usually is someone or a group of people want to show the world that they can open carry. Why? It is just not necessary. There are plenty of other options available. Along with carrying a weapon folks should realize that they carry a lot of responsibiltys too. Like it or not the general public does not want to see folks packing. Keep in mind that the nail that sticks up usually gets hammered down. Such incidents as this only makes it more likely that laws that limit us carrying will be put into place. Sure you can go after the officers that offended you and complain but keep in mind that their boss carries a lot of political weight. Most heads of LE agencys are political animals and have a lot of pull. How hard do you think it would be for him to get together with his peers and ask that legislation be put forth to abolish open carry. With the state going Dem. I don't think it would be much of a task to push it through. Please guys keep your weapon out of sight and go to places to eat that you can carry concealed. A little common sence goes a long way. I know I'll get flamed for this but I would think grown-ups would know better and act more responsible when carrying. |
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Posted: 12/26/2007 6:14:46 AM EDT
[#15]
I kinda thought it would end like this, just doing what leo are paid to do, maybe he could have been a little nicer but same end result |
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Posted: 12/26/2007 8:49:14 AM EDT
[#16]
In the spirit of Christmas, and because the CoC prevents me from replying as I would otherwise, I'll just say that I disagree with and/or take offense at most of what you've said. |
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Posted: 12/26/2007 8:58:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for your support Zumbo. With "supporters" like you we don't even need the Brady Bunch. Sheesh. hinking.gif |
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Posted: 12/26/2007 9:08:48 AM EDT
[#18]
What I find interesting, is you are saying to never open carry or we will lose the right to open carry. |
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Posted: 12/26/2007 10:52:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Hah! You know, that exact thought crossed my mind as I walked through there on Christmas Eve! No guns whatsoever allowed on premises? Looks like Dick's is about to get, well, dicked! _MaH |
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Posted: 1/12/2008 6:51:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quick (and probably final) update on this issue:
Last week, I prompted the LCSO for the answer they committed to in response to my initial complaint and the next day I got a phone call from Captain Tom Shaw (Assistant Division Commander of Field Operations). He was exactly what I'm accustomed to when speaking with any member of the LCSO...professional, courteous, and polite. It seems that neither the Commonwealth Attorney's Office nor the ABC can decide whether the food court falls under the restaurant ban statute. He's going to continue to press and will let me know if he ever gets a firm response, though I'm not hopeful he will. The Deputy's conduct is what it is and while he said he would mention it to the Deputy's Sergeant, nothing more will be said about that. I can't say I'm thrilled with that, as this is the root of my complaint, but I'm not going to press the issue because I know it won't go anywhere. Peace out. |
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Posted: 1/12/2008 7:04:46 PM EDT
[#21]
And you likely won't get an answer. The Commonwealth Attorney's office doesn't give out legal advice. At best, the question of whether the food court falls under the restaurant ban is an open question. At best. They don't give legal advice to anyone but the agencies they represent and they're not going to give you an opinion that limits their ability to prosecute in a future case with compelling facts. An objective reading of the law, and consideration of the facts at the mall, suggests strongly that the food court does not fall under the ban. Only way you'll know for sure is to litigate the matter. . . . |
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Posted: 1/13/2008 6:41:37 AM EDT
[#22]
You wont get a response, because when they say you were right you can then press charges and file a civil suit against the agency and the owners of the property.
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Posted: 1/13/2008 7:06:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Code of Virginia 18.2-308 J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit. It is a stretch to describe an “objective reading” as “suggests strongly that the food court does not fall under the ban”. The question comes down to what the premises are defined as. Since consumption of alcohol OFF the premises in the mall is not allowed, the marked area on the food court were alcohol CAN be consumed is obviously considered “on premises” by the ABC. Absent any other laws or rulings to the contrary, and given the states prohibition to carry concealed handguns were “sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption” is allowed you would likely have a tough fight. |
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Posted: 1/13/2008 5:24:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Agreed that the Commonwealth's Attorney's office won't issue an option. I'd write to Attorney General Bob McDonnell's office - or have VCDL do it. FWIW McDonnell is looking at running for Governor next time around, and he also filed a brief in support of Heller last week, so he's pro-RKBA and looking to move up in the political world. It can't hurt to ask. And, even if he does rule that concealed carry is a no-go in a mall food court, at least gun owners know where they stand.
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Posted: 1/14/2008 1:47:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Well I guess when we had about 15 people at a restaurant and most of us were open carrying I guess somebody was looking at us. I like to open carry. I could not do it in TX but I see the merits to it. Too bad I work in DC
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Posted: 1/14/2008 4:07:20 AM EDT
[#26]
You know, there are some people who lost everything just so we could have the vary rights that you seem to believe are foolish. That insults me greatly. It also burns me that you feel uncomfortable being around the very same people with which whom you are suppose to agree with.We have enough trouble with anti-gunners that we don't need problems with fair weather gun owners either. The right to keep and bear arms is absolute. It should not be based on what makes you feel uncomfortable. |
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Posted: 1/14/2008 2:32:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Every pro-carry argument listed here, including the latest one above, is LEGALLY CORRECT... However, WISDOM must also be in play or we will loose it all!!!! Bottom line: Our present society is an ANTI-CARRY society, and only becoming more so. The MAJORITY do not conceal carry, nor do they understand the need for others to. Only cops should carry is their motto. Our society is what it is.... WE must deal with this reality as we work to change it. That said, after various church and mall shootings fresh in sheeple's/people's minds, I think it was UNWISE to open carry the way it went down. YES, he should have left his pistol CONCEALED, legal or not (most cops would not have seen the food court as a concealed no-go zone). Screw the legal gymnastics of defining "premise..." Do the SMART THING, leave it CONCEALED. This event HURT OUR CAUSE... like it or not. Pushing OPEN CARRY into the faces of the people who represent a voting MAJORITY who do not support your right to arms is FOOLISH. With the government we have now, a ban on OPEN CARRY is HIGHLY POSSIBLE if brought to their ATTENTION by UNWISE confrontations like this one. Then what are you going to do? All those who thump their chests while declaring their "right" to open or concealed carry on PRIVATE PROPERTY will bring about our firearm demise... A TRUE CONSTITUTIONALIST with framers intentions in mind, a question on should I switch to OPEN CARRY in the food court is MOOT, you would have left it CONCEALED, laws be damned. And the only reason a Constitutionalist would ever carry concealed, rather than OPEN, is simply WISDOM. Our society has changed, and unless you love to have confrontations with LEO's wherever you go, causing a scene that looks bad for our side, than the WISE gentleman will CONCEAL because he CHOOSES to. Rmpl |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 4:04:02 AM EDT
[#28]
What kind of logic is that? If you are not a fan of open carry then why fret over the loss of being able to do so? Sorry, people exercising their rights does nothing to hurt our standing. To not exercising it would be the nail in the coffin. |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 4:11:35 AM EDT
[#29]
I agree with the above, in theory. Let me emphasise that I am not advocating anyone breaking the law. The potential downfall here is when you are in "mixed" company. The NOVA reloaders meet and greet Saturday is a great example. We were in an establishment that served alcohol and many members did open carry in compliance with the law. So let us say Joe Blow doesn't like open carry and leaves his weapon concealed. Someone calls the police and says, "Those nice looking men have handguns and I am scared." The police come out and want to make sure everything is OK. In the process of checking everyone over they notice a bludge on Joe Blow's side and find out he is carrying concealed. Now Joe has broken the law and potentially given the whole group a black eye. The above is purely hypothetical and I'm not suggesting anyone broke the law at the meet and greet. But it is a situation that could easily spiral out of control. If you were just there with your family and not a group of men with exposed weapons then the likelihood of being discovered would of course be less. Just something to consider. |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 5:35:02 AM EDT
[#30]
It's not logic, it's fear. People are afraid. Oh my god, 'they' are going to ban open carry!!!111one. Let's be realistic here; who exactly, is going to lobby the general assembly to strike open carry from the books? The million (divide by a million) mom march? The FoPs? Ugh, it drives me nuts, hearing this talk, especially from people who, ostensibly, enjoy having firearms. It is a real WTF for me. I guess I just need to come to grips with the fact that there are lots of people who own guns on this site (and others) but not many gun owners. VT: Hard to believe that armed revolt(s) against the lawful authority ever occured, huh?  Didn't some sage say something about rights being like muscles? Useless unless exercised? TR |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 6:17:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Then where were you during the Machine Gun Ban? (the clearest second amendment line crossing) Where were you during the concealed permit laws? Where were you during the AWB? Did anyone talk about "RECLAIMING" our rights by the methods our founders envisioned? Yeah, right... Muscles my ass.... Most of us gun owners are SCARED little rabbits dodging here and there to avoid a "technical legality," like making sure we have the dreaded PIN in the welded FS. Oooohhhhh. Or the right number of DOMESTIC parts in our AK and FAL's, etc... Or should I be OPEN CARRY or concealed in the food court... Give me a break.... You LOST your rights a long time ago.... all we are doing now is trying to live within the TREATY of SLAVERY we have ALL signed on to... to maintain peace and not have to refresh the tree of liberty with OUR blood. Comments like yours drive me nuts.... Atleast the misguided "militias" of the 80's and 90's openly threatened to TAKE IT BACK... You are a SERF and don't want to admit it, nor even know it. You made it personal first, I'm just responding... Rmpl |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 8:16:16 AM EDT
[#32]
How responding to VTHokie makes it personal to you, I have no idea, but hey, I'm waiting for lunch to heat up, so I've got a couple of minutes.. During the MG ban... hmm, let's think... I was 9, I think? It was May, so I was 8. So I was still not 18 when the AWB went down; which meant I couldn't vote or buy a rifle then. Of course, since I didn't start shooting until I was about 18, I had no idea the thing existed. With that in mind, I'm not sure what I could do, since I wasn't aware of what had happened until later. Maybe I should have used my magic wand and been older or something? Or maybe been able to see the future and know I was going to get involved with guns and do something. (Probably better to get the lottery #s, one would think...  )Let's see, I became a NRA life member, joined GOA, joined VCDL, I write my Congress critters, my reps, etc, since then, so I think I've done an okay job since I've been around to pay attention. And if a flippant comment gets to you, please remember, it's the internet.  TR |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 9:04:50 AM EDT
[#33]
What gets to me is the thought that open carry of a firearm is somehow "flexing our liberty muscles..." Flexing our muscles would be declaring as one group, "We will NOT COMPLY!" Imagine the NRA taking that stance.... (laughing hysterically, yet shedding a tear as well) So since we have CHOSEN to do the polka dance around the piece-meal legislation that has clearly abrogated our inalienable rights, we must be WISE that we do not piss off our mob-rules Masters into passing even more burdensome decrees... Unless groups form somewhere (individuals are just bullet stops), all across our country, that have mutually agreed the line has been crossed and swear their life and wealth for freedom, than this is all just FOLLY... Go ahead and "flex" with open carry, it will only result in further restrictions, as long as the anti-gun MAJORITY has election power and we continue to think that the DEMOCRACY (mobacracy) we now have is still a REPUBLIC. Where have NRA A-rated politicians got us so far? Further into serfdom and every year further "compromises..." We almost had "revolution" in the 90's.. I know I was put through the "Alphabet Soup Agency" magnifying glass due to my involvement with groups, such as being the Communications Security Consultant for "The Resister" publication, put out by the Special Forces Underground (active and retired SF who said, "I will not comply...") Waco scared many, as well as boosted interest, but OKC B0MB was the killer of the growing movement. Back to ground zero and build again... Then the "Republican Revolution" swept through and a pro-gun President named Bush got elected. We were all lulled to sleep... Eventually a generation will arise that declares, "Enough is enough!" Right now, they let us have enough "freedoms" to be civil, but just like the rise of the militia groups in the late 20th century, a tripwire will be sprung one day... Till then, WISDOM must prevail! Rmpl |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 9:21:56 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/15/2008 9:27:43 AM EDT
[#35]
You could move to VA and enjoy a better quality of life, including lower taxes and minimal gun-control laws. Personally when I lived in NoVA I liked seeing DC... in my rear-view mirror.  |
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Posted: 1/15/2008 9:53:21 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 1/16/2008 6:57:12 AM EDT
[#37]
I understand this subject is touchy for some, and so far everyone is keeping their cool. So plz keep doing so, and not cause this thread to be locked.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 5:53:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Seriously though, I open carry pretty often. In 9 years I think I have had maybe 2-4 comments thrown my way about how scary I was or how inappropriate I was being.
I stand behind my point that the logic of "if you open carry people will start calling for a ban on open carry" is flawed. If you don't open carry and don't care for it or the people who do, then what is the point of making a fuss over it? It obviously isn't something that applies to you. Being 30, I had no way to do anything about the MG ban, or the import ban. I was politically active and savvy enough that I did try as much as a young teenager could do to fight the 94gun bill. Used lawn mowing money to join the NRA, donated money to Republicans running for office and attended rallies. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 6:10:11 AM EDT
[#39]
I have no problem with open carry in general, although TACTICALLY I believe concealed is more advantageous. My problem is the lack of WISDOM and JUDGMENT used by the original thread starter by open carry in a crowded mall soon after a mall shooting and the resulting scene it caused. I would bet there was some arrogance by the man as well... as even the text hints this, frustrating the officers present. The whole argument about technical legalities is foolish to me... I doubt a LEO anywhere, who is upright and honest, would ever question the man's choice to remain CONCEALED in the Food Court of the mall. UNWISE actions like shown in this thread will be what puts the possible end to open carry, not your HOPEFULLY wise open carry. Rmpl |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 6:23:14 AM EDT
[#40]
“My problem is the lack of WISDOM and JUDGMENT used by the original thread starter by open carry in a crowded mall soon after a mall shooting and the resulting scene it caused.”
“…lack of WISDOM and JUDGMENT…”? By trying to conform to the state law restricting concealed carry in places that serve alcohol for on premises consumption? There is NO clear interpretation of the ABCS rules about ‘premises’ and the CHL restrictions and how they interact. If we are going to allow ourselves to be ‘run off’ by folks ‘feelings’ and ridiculous fear at the mere sight of a handgun we may as well surrender now. This is the same as using the ‘disturbing the peace’ laws as a club against open carry. Next thing will be penalties for allowing a concealed weapon to accidentally show. The mere presence of a handgun does NOT affect anyone else’s rights I any way. The mall has not properly posted the property to put CHL carriers (or someone open carrying) on notice of the restrictive rules they have imposed on their private property. I think the OP handled himself well. I think the deputy Sheriff was an idiot. He appears overly enamored with his supposed ‘powers’. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 6:57:21 AM EDT
[#41]
They did that to me at Wallyworld, I never understood that, i just passed the check (not that that means I am not a nut) and they walk me to the door with the firearm in the managers hands. Whats to stop me from loading up outside and coming back in? Certainly not a walkie talkie holding manager. Hypotheticaly speaking of course
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Posted: 1/17/2008 10:08:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Which is exactly why he should have left it CONCEALED... Rmpl |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 12:23:01 PM EDT
[#43]
As a CCW holder just up the road from this mall, I usually open carry because:
(1) Detterance to crime in general when citizens open carry--the B.G. knows it's a bad place to act out in. I know of at least one case wihere an open carry citizen prevented a bank roberry, according to the tellers and bank manager. (2) Should the need arise, open carry is the most accessable way to carry a gun. I don't want to waste time fumbling to pull up my shirt to get to my weapon when my life is in danger (the only justifiable time to pull a weapon). Conceal carry when you HAVE to is better than no protection at all, but open carry is better for self defense, which is why we carry in the first place, isn't it? |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 1:35:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Hopefully everyone who open carries is constantly aware of all that is going on around them all of the time they are in public. I also hope that everyone who open carries has taken a class in weapons retention and is proficient in weapons retention. I have had someone try to take a weapon from my holster before. You occasionally hear about officers being killed with their own weapon after they are disarmed. God forbid it happens to anyone, but this is a reason to keep concealed. I have also had situations while off duty, in civies, that were escalating and I wanted to be ready in case the next step was needed. Just pulling back my jacket and placing my hand on my weapon (the other parties never saw it because my strong side was turned away from them) WITHOUT removing it from the holster was enough to completely diffuse the situation. They knew what my movements meant. I had not ID'd myself either because I was still just a bystander at that point and had not actively involved myself.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 1:41:06 PM EDT
[#45]
I carried concealed at this very food court not too long before the OP. I have carried concealed at other mall food courts over the years. I would rather carry concealed, both because I think it is better from a self defense standpoint, and I would rather avoid hassle. I live in the world as it is and would expect some attention and hassle, and many stories in this forum attest to that. In the end I carry a gun for self defense, not to make political points about my rights.
If the law is ambigous on this point (I assumed I was legal) I would rather it remain so, rather than writing the VA Attorney General and getting some ruling forbidding concealed carry in food courts. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 6:15:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Agreed. My holster locks in the gun with a thumb release that is pressed during the draw. It's bulkier than most, but I have it specifically for the reasons 10-7 LEO states. All citizens, but especially those of us who choose to carry, should be aware at all times. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 8:48:40 PM EDT
[#47]
I dis-agree with all this anti-OC sentiment going around. I have been religiously OC-ing and surprisingly stirring up the issue of firearms everywhere I go. Sure, the antis will get "uncomfortable" but that is to be expected. I have no respect for the man that does not stand up for his beliefs simply because:
-It's not PC -Not tactically correct -It's rattling our sabers The cold hard reality is, there will always be someone out there that gets "antsy and uncomfortable" with open carrying. Our job is to win over the undecided by showing that we are responsible and normal everyday people like them. People that go to restaurants, buy groceries, enjoy the company of friends and families while all along choosing to openly defend ourselves. To the gentleman that insists on keeping a "serious eyeball" on "someone sitting armed in a public place without a LEO uniform", are you serious? Are you trying to vilify guns? It is not the gun that should alarm you, but rather someone's actions and demeanor. "To be honest I really would not want my family around such a person." I personally do NOT have a CHP. However, if you are eying me suspiciously and ready to draw at a moments notice while I am out with my girlfriend, be assured that I will have eyed you already. The point is, we should be aware of what people are doing. If you see a loud individual stirring up trouble, we obviously train our eyes on them. But if you are ready to engage me because I make your family uncomfortable while I am OC-ing on a date with my girlfriend, then you are barking up the wrong tree. It is my personal belief that open carrying is another way to publicly state our views and opinions. People whose interests are piqued will engage you and you will be surprised at how many people agree with us. We should not have to hide in the shadows and break the law by CC-ing in a location that serves alcohol. In short: I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE FACT THAT I HAVE A GUN IN PUBLIC. And yes, I am making a political point. I do not mind being "hassled". Been there, done that.
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Posted: 1/18/2008 7:40:03 AM EDT
[#48]
So you are going to pay his legal bills? It IS against the law to carry concealed in a place that serves alcohol. You could face a concealed weapons charge, not just a simple trespass charge. It IS also LEGAL to carry openly in a place that serves alcohol. The most you would face is a tresspassing charge for failing to leave when asked. Which one is more likely to cause long term issues?
Ambiguous means you could be arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon. Still want the status quo? All you need is a Commonwealth’s Attorney looking to make an example of someone and a judge who is anti (and most of them around Northern Virginia are) to make your life a PITA. The AGs opinion does not have a lot of weight anyway. It would be better to just get the Legislature to clarify how the ABC and CWP laws interact in this case. |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 1:14:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Yes. I don't think the legislature would go our way on this. |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 1:28:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Good for you, and I mean that sincerely. I remember your experiences after the VT shootings. Truthfully, I am into guns as a hobby first, for self defense second, and hate the politics of it. I am not very political in general. I prefer concealed carry and have no desire to talk with strangers about anything, let alone guns. I am interested, do you, or other people who open carry, find you have a lot of positive experiences? Do you think you have changed any minds? We hear a lot of the negative stuff, that is the nature of the internet, is there a lot of positive interactions with OC carriers and the public, or law enforcement, we don't hear about? |
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