just found out the assblyman for my district, Jim Hayes, voted against this and is working to repeal it. He said on WBEN that the state expects to gain $25million from this and that the money has already been spent. That's why I'm against so many of NY's taxes: the irresponsible spending.
I'm glad I voted for him since he is truly representing me by voting the way I would have. I just sent him a letter of support.

For what its worth, many of us in Albany are pissed off about this.  Bottom line, the legislature went on a spending spree and they needed to "balance" their budget.  So, they came up with nonsense like this, as well as video lottery terminals and collecting taxes on cigarette sales via the Internet and low and behold, their budget was "balanced."  Funny, they spent the money and they don't have it and they left a mess for various government agencies to try to fix.  When they can't collect the money the legislature forecasted, they will say we haven't done our job and blame us for the revenue shortfalls.  Bottom line, they want to have their cake and eat it oo.

the bigger problem is that goverment spend s by projecting what they would like to believe they will take in. this is deception and fraud perpetrated on the payers since they can say they expect the moon and in midyear when they realize no moon is forthcoming they then start making cuts and casting blame(or raise taxes and fees).

if you or i attempted to do the same we'd be looking at a bankruptcy hearing.(i'd like to project my salary will double this year).

if the social contract were as simple as paying for municipal servises that were needed such as police, sanitation, fire, ems,  water rtreatment,etc most would have no problem with it. problem isthat goverment is an entity that just makes itself bigger continually by finding a need that they feel is being unmet.they decide to take on the need and then make everyone pay for it. they find restrictions to place on people and permits to use things and then charge people for it or fine them if they dont.

when they need more money to cover all the(good)they are doing they start with things like civil forfieture.

now theyve gotten to the point where they are telling you what you have to do for your health and whether religion is ok. is it any wonder they want to be paid for goods you bought somewhere else?

I could agree to the "social contract" if I were guaranteed that my total tax bill, city, county, state, and federal combined, would never exceed 10% of my income, and if there were severe penalties on representatives and police for stepping outside of their constitutional cage. None of this "shall not be questioned in any other place" stuff.

If you vote for or enforce an unconstitutional law, you should be immediately booted from office, should never be allowed to serve in any sworn position for the rest of your life, and should serve a term in prison for felony Bill of Rights infringement.

A grand jury should be empowered to decide whether a law's constitutionality will be tested in the courts, such grand jury being convened on accusation by anyone, not this nonsense that until you put your life on the line by being arrested for breaking a law, and have gone through a jury trial and been found guilty, only then, at the appeals level, can the law be declared unconstitutional.

And every judge in every court should be required to inform the jury of their right and duty to judge the alleged law as well as the alleged law breaker and to acquit, nullifying the law, if they believe the law to be wrong. If a jury is not so informed, the result on appeal should be an automatic mistrial.

Give me a freakin break Bill, that is completely untenable and you know it.  The constitutionality of laws is determined by a court.  You can't have any citizen able to convene a grand jury at any time to question any law that they don't like.  Every freakin law would be questioned.  Not to mention that grand juries convene at taxpayer expense - something you don't want to amount to more than 10% total of your income.  Furthermore you would place an unbelievable burden on the citizenry to populate these grand juries which keeps them away from work, families, etc. on the whim of anybody who doesn't like the concept of laws in general.

As for trying somebody for enforcing an unconstituional law, that already happens.  If a public official, say a prison guard or police officer, violates a person's cicil liberties they can and have been tried and convicted and sent to prison.  As for laws that might later be challenged and determined to be unconstitional, you can't prosecute people for having enfoced it prior to it being deemed unconstitutional.  There is a little provision in the constitution prohibiting that - the no ex=post facto laws...

Seriously man, I couldn't agree with you more that the system is broken.  However, you have not provided a single realistic reform.  What you have proposed is completely untenable.

Quoted: As for the question that started this thread, it's no internet rumor.

Thanks Bill. Interesting....

So how exactly does this work? Do i have to pay a tax based on each purchase i made or do i just pay a set tax based on my income if i made any internet purchases. As if doing taxes wasnt a pain in the butt already. Why lord did i move back to NY.

But isn't it a little late to be telling people they have to pay sales tax on out of state purchases. How can they estimate how much I've spent? By my income? I buy virtually nothing online or mail order. If they are going to enforce this law then they should tell people at the start of the year. Or better yet just before election time.    Tim

Opps nevermind this post I finally got to the bottom of all the posts.

HiramRanger, it seems there is a common tendency on this board to confuse the concepts this country is founded on.  Some, like Bill St. Clair, believe that the concept is no taxation.  Others more erudite understand that the concept is no taxation without representation.

BillStClair and others, unless you can point to something in the state or federal constitutions telling you that you are exempt from taxation, your recourse is through the political and legislative process, not through violence.  No one is happy about paying taxes, but if you don't like it, there are 49 other jurisdictions with different tax regimes you can choose from, or you can choose to move to Belize.

I don't believe the country was based on no taxation. What I believe is that no constitution, state or federal, has any authority over me. I never agreed to it and the fact that I was born in a place where a majority of the people do does not give them any right to override my natural sovereignty. Taxation is a protection racket, pure and simple. Government is an organized criminal enterprise. It relies on the initiation of force for everything it does. The very concept of government is immoral.

But this isn't really the place to discuss that.

As a practical matter, governments exist and if I don't follow their rules, I will be kidnapped or killed by brutal men wearing fancy uniforms and funny hats. So I try to stay out of their way. One day soon that will likely become impossible, however, and I will go down. Better dead than red, eh?

BillStClair, it sounds as if you are a practitioner of anarchy.  You cite the fact that the mere fact you are born into this society does not bind you by its rules.

Two hypothetical questions:

- Are you exempt from laws proscribing murder, theft, arson?  Am I allowed to murder you, steal from you or burn your home?  If you reject our system of laws it seems you should not be entitled to the protection of them.

- Are you allowed to avail yourself of the benefits of the system of government?  Roads, schools, police, military, fire?  If so, aren't you benefiting from what you term a "criminal" enterprise?

It could be said this nation was founded by anarchists.I suspect the founding fathers ruffled a few Tory feathers with their rhetoric as well. They, of course, had the balls to offer a bit more than rhetoric to their oppressors

I don't know about you, but I certainly haven't been voting for all the damned tax increases forced on me and my family, both on a fed, state, and local level. yeah, yeah, vote to change the system, blah blah blah. Do any of you really believe that is possible, with all the current levels of government? Too damned many sheep and politicians abound. May your chains rest easy...

And have a heavily-taxed, strictly regulated New Year! Ho ho ho

All your taxes are belong to us... now only if I worked on commission!

But, you've already said you don't work for the tax man.

Work with... you really have a reading comprehension problem don't you?

I'm not much of a practicioner of anarchy. I am, however, a believer in and espouser of anarchy. Market anarchy, that is. I believe in property. And I'm a libertarian, meaning that I believe that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force, nor to advocate or delegate its initiation. That means taxation is plumb out.

I've paid my taxes like a good little slave since I got out of college 25 years ago, so I'm as entitled as anyone to use the tax-funded services that I believe should be handled, fee-for-service, by the market. And that includes roads, fire, police, military, everything. Nothing that people do can't be done more cheaply, more efficiently, and more honestly, by the market than by theft-funded government monopoly. In my not at all humble opinion, of course.

But, as I said, this isn't really the place to discuss anarchism. Tends to ruffle the feathers of those who are still attached to the old, rapidly dying, system.

Quoted: All your taxes are belong to us... now only if I worked on commission!

Hmm.. reading comprehension, eh humpranger or is it homoranger?


Let's see...  'all your taxes are belong to us', this sorta indicates you're working for the people collecting the taxes.

Next line...  'now only if I worked on commission!' hmm..  now I may not walk the halls of justice like you do humpranger, and have judge relatives.. but, this sorta says.. you'd be 'paid' more for collecting more taxes.

But, we all know that you don't actually work for the government, you're some snot noised ass kissing page, sucking up and running errands in those 'halls of justice'

....damn, just getting good and it's almost time to go home for the holiday

the concept of property requires someone with an ability o enforce it lest there be only property by virtue of greater force.

your property is only ours till i come with more guns to take it from you unless you can stop me.now wih an effective goerment and court system your ownership is validated by the state.

problems come into being when the state feels it can take it all and then you have no recourse. i believe that is a problem we are seeing too much of with excessive taxes and mandates.

anarchy sounds good till you see places where it has happened. i keep guns out of fear of anarchy, the end of the world as we know it, when people would kill for basic sevices

Quoted: Tends to ruffle the feathers of those who are still attached to the old, rapidly dying, system.

I am quite attached to the "old" system, as you put it, but I would not refer to it as "rapidly dying" -- rather, the old system is quite vital and healthy, and I hope it continues ad infinitum.

Its called a joke Bullet... kind of like your entire existance...  For some reason you have a hard on for me.  Man you really need to get a life.

You're right, I have nothing to do with tax collections whatsoever - thank God.  So, how are those hemorrhoids from sitting around HQ all day?

Heh, yeah sure hiram... HQ? what's that?

Hey Hiram,  Is the state of the state in that bad of shape fiscally?  I noticed that the court fees for UTT's and the like went up from $35-55 to over $100 even if the charge is dismissed.  Also, the Troopers seem to be writing A LOT more tickets these days.  No I didn't get a ticket, just in a position to know.

Winder, the state has plenty of money... the problem is they waste too much of it.  I've long said we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.  There is simply no excuse to have a state budget in the $90 billion range.  Most nation's run on less money than that and they have to provide for the defense of their people.  No, we don't need anywhere near this much money.

Oh boy, bend over.... Another friggin money grab by the state...

Just found this thread, and what a new years kick in the balls... So now I have to shell out more to keep the state happy... This year.. Next year it will double... In five years it will be a grand...

WHAT THE HELL IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET THIS STATE TO CUT SPENDING?

If I don't have the money, I don't spend it.. Plain and simple...

I could go on all day on this... Who ever brought this up, thanks for making my friggin day...

Another subject of New York....

Hey Tucker, quit yer bitchin' and get to work. Maybe around June or July you'll actually make some $ that belongs to you

I just ordered a 3 in 1 Photo reader. It displays photos from your memory cards onto the TV screen using a remote. Got it from Gateway for 10 bucks free shipping. Funny thing is, before I got the package I got in the mail an invoice. It says tax but I wasn't charged tax. I guess this is what they mean by saving receipts.