Quoted: Their response to my latest email: Dear Tall Magnificent Bastard, <snip> Enjoy the Outdoors,

Hah!  Just as I suspected!  Norton is a pseudonym ...  

Joking aside, I can only say that I hope SG doesn't portend the future ...  

I believe I need to give some thought to figuring out a way to better and safely store a basic load larger that what I now have, where I can access it easily.

Quoted: Quoted: ...If they threaten extortion CA style... Could you elaborate on this please? For my own edification, I'd like to know which CA city/county/state officials are doing this, because I'm not aware of any. Thanks.

See my post upthread about Yolo County.

Quoted: I believe I need to give some thought to figuring out a way to better and safely store a basic load larger that what I now have, where I can access it easily.

Given the political realities of the next election, I thing that it would be wise for us all to think about what could happen with the swipe of the executive order pen.

Quoted: Okay, thanks. Do you recall the name of the DA? When did this happen? DA still holding office? Any other particulars? I'd be interested in finding out if any grassroots groups were onto this. You can send me an IM so we don't clutter up the forum. Thanks.

About ten years ago.  But it's also an ongoing problem in CA because an atty can file a suit on behalf of the public, win punitive damages against the company and then keep the proceeds.

There was one shitsucker going around to little Vietnamese (specifically) nail salons and threatening to sue them for unsafe health practices because they were SHARING BOTTLES OF NAIL POLISH between clients, and there was a potential for infection (In something laden with acetone???).  But, if they wanted to settle out of court for $2000 each, and agree to use a FRESH bottle for every client, he'd remove them from the suit.  He was making an average of a little less than $2000 per letter sent out, because most of them paid rather than risk higher legal costs to defend themselves, to risk the possibility of losing, and gain nothing from the win as he'd be immune from countersuit, having filed on behalf of the public.

In any civilized jurisdiction he'd be nailed for extortion and tossed into a cell with a gay lumberjack.  There was, apparently, some discussion that a hit from a Vietnamese gang would cost less than $2000 per salon.  I have no idea if this concept reached fruition.  

While I don't approve of illegal activity in lieu of legitimate court process, I would dance a little dance in this case.

So, shall we retain a lawyer to send Threatening Letters for us and split the proceeds 3 ways?

Quoted: From our vantage of St. Paul, Minnesota, its often difficult to determine where to draw the line in areas throughout the United States, but I'm writing to let you know we are reviewing our policies to more finely map our restricted areas.

Let me see if I can help some:

For what it is worth, here is the respnse I got from SG.  About all I can do to help out.
Dear Dxxx,

Thank you for the E-mail.


We have placed certain restrictions, on certain items listed in our catalog and our web site.
Due to the various state, county and municipal laws that exist, we are not always able to comply with each individual guideline. Not all of the restrictions are based on laws on the books, but could be a company decision based on certain concerns. Things such as whether the state law suits pending involving gun owners, recent court decisions that may effect businesses like ours. Finally it may be that the states laws are so vague that they could be interpreted unfavorably in the event a court action was ever involved, and finally as a public held company, we are obligated to safeguard our stockholder's investments.


We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
If you have any other questions please contact us.



Enjoy the Outdoors,



Katie Smith

Customer Service

http://www.allplaces.us/find.cgi?p=Annapolis&st=MD

ZIP Codes for Annapolis, MD
Place Zip Code(s)
Annapolis 21401 21402 21403 21404 21405 21409 21411 21412

http://www.allplaces.us/find.cgi?p=Washington&st=DC

ZIP Codes for Washington, DC
Place Zip Code(s)
Washington 20001 20002 20003 20004 20005 20006 20007 20008 20009 20010 20011 20012 20013 20015 20016 20017 20018 20019 20020 20022 20023 20024 20026 20027 20029 20030 20032 20033 20035 20036 20037 20038 20039 20040 20041 20042 20043 20044 20045 20046 20047 20049 20050 20051 20052 20053 20055 20056 20057 20058 20059 20060 20061 20062 20063 20064 20065 20066 20067 20068 20069 20070 20071 20073 20074 20075 20076 20077 20078 20080 20081 20082 20088 20090 20091 20097 20098 20099 20201 20202 20203 20204 20206 20207 20208 20210 20211 20212 20213 20214 20215 20216 20217 20218 20219 20220 20221 20222 20223 20224 20226 20227 20228 20229 20230 20232 20233 20235 20237 20238 20239 20240 20241 20242 20244 20245 20250 20251 20254 20260 20261 20262 20265 20266 20268 20270 20277 20289 20299 20301 20303 20306 20307 20310 20314 20317 20318 20319 20330 20340 20350 20355 20370 20372 20373 20374 20375 20376 20380 20388 20389 20390 20391 20392 20393 20394 20395 20398 20401 20402 20403 20404 20405 20406 20407 20408 20409 20410 20411 20412 20413 20414 20415 20416 20418 20419 20420 20421 20422 20423 20424 20425 20426 20427 20428 20429 20431 20433 20434 20435 20436 20437 20439 20440 20441 20442 20444 20447 20451 20453 20456 20460 20463 20468 20469 20470 20472 20500 20501 20502 20503 20504 20505 20506 20507 20508 20509 20510 20511 20515 20520 20521 20522 20523 20524 20525 20526 20527 20528 20529 20530 20531 20532 20533 20534 20535 20536 20537 20538 20539 20540 20541 20542 20543 20544 20546 20547 20548 20549 20551 20552 20553 20554 20555 20557 20558 20559 20560 20565 20566 20570 20571 20572 20573 20575 20576 20577 20578 20579 20580 20581 20585 20586 20590 20591 20593 20594 20597 20599 56901 56915 56920 56944 56972

(never knew there were 5xxxx zip codes in DC - 56901 looks like a White House zip)

Dear Paul, Thank you for the E-mail. We are very sorry you wish to be removed from our mailing list, but are doing as you have requested. We have started the process of removing your name from our computer system. Sometimes you may receive one more catalog before the cycle is completed. If you do receive more than one copy please email us and we can check to insure that it was completed successfully. If you have any other questions please contact us. Enjoy the Outdoors, Becky Barnes Customer Service Visit our Website at www.sportsmansguide.com Please retain your Customer ID Number 9939469 for order status and fast Express Internet Checkout. Top sellers: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/section/section.asp?s=2283 SPG Email sign up: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/email/specials_form.asp Buyers Club Sign-up: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/club/club_tour.asp Customer Service Phone Number 1-800-888-5222 Customer Service Fax Number 1-651-552-5305 The Sportsman's Guide 411 Farwell Ave So St Paul, MN 55075

I emailed them. posted the exchanges in the VA forum. They dont like Maryland, but Virigina is ok. I live 8 miles from DC in Alexandria and I can get all the ammo I want.

Quoted: I emailed them. posted the exchanges in the VA forum. They dont like Maryland, but Virigina is ok. I live 8 miles from DC in Alexandria and I can get all the ammo I want.

THey shipped me over 10,000 rounds to Columbia, MD - which would be at the top of the map above - closer than Annapolis.

Quoted: Finally it may be that the states laws are so vague that they could be interpreted unfavorably in the event a court action was ever involved,

Constitution reserves unenumerated rights to the states and people respectively.  14th Amendment applies all federal limitations to the states.  Legal theory and precedent in the US, per SCOTUS is that laws that are vague must be interpreted in the fashion most favorable to the defendant. * Commerce clause protects businesses from criminal action from a different jurisdiction.

If MD or DC ATTEMPTS criminal charges, being in MN just means they have the MN AG send a letter noting the jurisdictional difference and the case cannot even proceed (IANAL, any lawyers please correct me if I'm wrong).  This shouldn't cost them a penny.  "Dear DC:  this activity did not take place in your jurisdiction.  See cite, US Constitution.  My duty is to protect residents of my state.  No request for extradition will be granted.  Request dismissal with prejudice of this case.   Yours, AG MN."

The civil risk exists regardless.  ANYONE who ever gets shot by ammo sold by them can file.  It won't win, but they can file and cost SG a bunch of court costs.  Null argument.  Grow a pair.  

*Which was upheld in IL where law requires a firearm be in a case or like container for transport.  Courts have held that pistol in a sock and ammo in another sock under the seat constitute, "Like containers" as the law does not specify a type or model.

Uh-oh! Now it's illegal!

As I mentioned above in too many words, I think this is caught up in a bureacratic lack of communication.  "Too close to the District of Columbia . . . too many lawsuits regarding the location," and now, in today's mail, ammunition ". . . may not be legally purchased in your area."

Quoted: Uh-oh! Now it's illegal! As I mentioned above in too many words, I think this is caught up in a bureacratic lack of communication.  "Too close to the District of Columbia . . . too many lawsuits regarding the location," and now, in today's mail, ammunition ". . . may not be legally purchased in your area."

Hmm...what did I buy there in October, then?

My advice is to give your business to www.ammoman.com or www.wideners.com.  Decent prices and hella fast shipping.  With both places my order hit my doorstep no more than 3 days after purchasing.

Joe

I emailed them that map & zip code list.  I wonder if they're getting tired of the whole thing yet:

"Dear Jay,

Thank you for the E-mail.

I apologize for any inconvenience, but there is nothing more that I can do for you.

If you have any other questions please contact us.


Enjoy the Outdoors,

Rebecca Reynolds

Customer Service
"

Quoted: My advice is to give your business to www.ammoman.com or www.wideners.com.  Decent prices and hella fast shipping.

I just wish Ammoman.com had better shipping rates for his neighbors.  His total price includes shipping, as part of the price, but the price more than covers shipping to San Diego or Seattle.  Those of us a couple of hours away from New Jersey, at most, pay the same price as someone ordering from all the way over on the Left coast, unless you drive there to pick stuff up.  

Would it be asking too much for even two prices, one for east of, and one for west of, the Mississippi ...  I like that he makes a profit and can stay in business.  I don't like contributing more to that profit than his customers in the mid-West and beyond.

And fearing I've now overstayed my welcome over here, North of the Patowmack, I'll bid y'all farewell, and Good Luck with SG.  I'm glad you let us Virginians know of the crap with SG, and even though it might be as meaningful as peeing in the ocean, I was happy to sever any business ties I had with them on your account.

(Shamless self promotion)  I have some brand name 308 ammo that I'm selling fairly cheap in MD.  I posted it in the AR10 section of the EE board.  I live/work in the Rockville/Gaithersburg area so if you can meet me there the shipping cost is zero.  For MD residents, who can do FTF - the comment about selling it all together does not apply.  I will sell any of the groups in my ad seperately FTF.  So if you want any batch figure the price is 40 cents per round for everything except the Federal Premium which is 50 cents per round.

Hey V_R, I got almost ("has got"?) the same heave-ho:

Dear Ed, Thank you for the E-mail. I have taken you off of all of our lists. This conversation has got to end. There is nothing that I can do for you. If you have any other questions please contact us. Enjoy the Outdoors, Rebecca Reynolds Customer Service

Weenies.

One other possibilty:  Where are the distribution centers?  If UPS has one in DC that serves certain areas of Maryland, might SG avoid that so as not to ship ammo into DC, whether by accident or not?

Quoted: One other possibilty:  Where are the distribution centers?  If UPS has one in DC that serves certain areas of Maryland, might SG avoid that so as not to ship ammo into DC, whether by accident or not?

No, that's irrelevant.  Receiving address is all that matters, and how the carrier delivers is not the shipper's problem.

Quoted: Hey V_R, I got almost ("has got"?) the same heave-ho: Dear Ed, Thank you for the E-mail. I have taken you off of all of our lists. This conversation has got to end. There is nothing that I can do for you. If you have any other questions please contact us. Enjoy the Outdoors, Rebecca Reynolds Customer Service Weenies.

Her next reply is going to be "SHUT UP!!! SHUT UP, ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!"




anyone who hasn't emailed them yet - keep pouring it on!!!  If you belong to a shooting club or any other gun group, let them know!!!

They must be getting pissy cuz' I wasn't even given the courtesy of a reply.

Screw 'em. Bass Pro/Outdoor World is too close NOT to buy from them for my outdoor gear, and Georgia Arms always takes good care of me with ammo.

Quoted: So, going by that logic they shouldn't be shipping 20+ round mags to any town bordering MD.

And civilians in VA can only carry 10 rounds in the weapon, so no full-cap pistol mags to VA.  And Toledo doesn't allow .25 or .32 or .380 pistols to be sold, so Lucas and Maumee counties shouldn't be able to order those, and...

Which is WHY we have the commerce clause in the Constitution.

Wussbags.

Quoted: And civilians in VA can only carry 10 rounds in the weapon, so no full-cap pistol mags to VA..

That isn't quite right. The law I think you are talking about refers to over-20 magazines actually loaded into a firearm out in public.

However, VA CCW holders are exempt. . . . VCDL was all over this because some localities were claiming the particular law meant that NO loaded firearm was allowed in public. . . .

K-Romulus

Former VA resident
Current VA CCW holder
VCDL member

Quoted: Quoted: And civilians in VA can only carry 10 rounds in the weapon, so no full-cap pistol mags to VA.. That isn't quite right. The law I think you are talking about refers to over-20 magazines actually loaded into a firearm out in public. However, VA CCW holders are exempt. . . . VCDL was all over this because some localities were claiming the particular law meant that NO loaded firearm was allowed in public. . . . K-Romulus Former VA resident Current VA CCW holder VCDL member

I don't live in VA, but let's doublecheck.  Source was newslinks director for keepandbeararms.com, and her husband is a federal cop.  They're both VERY pro-gun and up to date.  But mistakes do happen.

Here is what I was talking about. The VCDL weeky email of "07/01/05 - VCDL Update 7/1/2005 - Part 1" has the info (from vcdl.org > VCDL ALERT Archive):

4.  New laws now in effect! ******************************************************************* The new gun laws are now in effect.  Here they are as a recap: . . . HB 1915, carried for VCDL by Delegate Mark L. Cole, who represents the Spotsylvania/Fredericksburg area: Current wording of 18.2-287.4 seems to imply that you cannot carry a loaded firearm where the population is over 160,000. Only at the end does it happen to describe the firearms actually prohibited as those commonly viewed as "assault weapons," e.g., have magazines that can hold over 20 rounds, has a folding stock or designed to accommodate a suppressor, etc.. Because of the confusing ordering of paragraphs, several citizens have been falsely arrested or harassed for carrying typical self-defense handguns. Police, judges, magistrates, and city attorneys have misread the current version of this law! While VCDL has always opposed the restrictions in current law, HB 1915 not only clarifies it to preclude future harassment and/or false arrest of citizens, but now also exempts concealed handgun permit holders from it entirely! Shooting ranges are also exempted. Details: If you do NOT have a CHP, then if you are in a public area in a city with a population exceeding 160,000 (like Richmond, Virginia Beach, etc.) or a county having an urban county executive form of government (like Fairfax) or in a city or county that is surrounded by or adjacent to such a county (like Falls Church), you CANNOT possess: 1. A LOADED semi-automatic CENTER-FIRE rifle or pistol that has a magazine in it that will hold MORE than 20 rounds at the time of the offense or 2. A LOADED semi-automatic CENTER-FIRE rifle or pistol that was designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer (suppressor, more correctly) or 3. A LOADED semi-automatic CENTER-FIRE rifle or pistol that has a folding stock or 4. A LOADED shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than 7 rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered NOTE: Items 1 and 4 do not require you have the maximum number of bullets in the magazine. The magazine, as long as it is in the gun, can be empty and you could still be charged. Item 2 does not require that the suppressor be on the gun for there to be a violation. CHP holders - don't worry about any of it ;-)

I have not found anywhere in the VA Code where it says you can't (otherwise) have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. But that's me, some internet dude . . .  Anyone not sure about this issue should CTA and check with VCDL (they have lawyers who will give you the straight dope).

Quoted: I have not found anywhere in the VA Code where it says you can't (otherwise) have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. But that's me, some internet dude . . .  Anyone not sure about this issue should CTA and check with VCDL (they have lawyers who will give you the straight dope).

I'll pass it up for doublecheck.  Thanks.

I located this on  the VA section of HomeTown: looks like MD's local laws are at fault, not SG


Quoted:
Ok here is the reply I got from them

Dear Mr. Cook,
Thank you for the E-mail.

We do not have any restrictions at this time on West Virginia which is the state on your account. As for the web site that you provided a link to we can send ammunition to any location except for the following location, and the reasons are listed. Montgomery County as whoever conducts business in Montgomery County is required to register with the Montgomery County Department of Police by maintaining on file with that department at all time a valid current copy of his federal ammunition dealers license. Also regarding Maryland no ammunition can be sent to the City of Annapolis because each person engaged in the business of selling or exchanging any firearms except shotguns and air and cat rifles or ammunition shall keep a register of the name and addresses of the person purchasing any firearms, cartridges or other ammunition noting the make, caliber and date of purchase. The register shall be open to the inspection of the police at all times, unfortunately as a company we have decided not to send ammunition to the above stated locations.

If you have any other questions please contact us.

Enjoy the Outdoors,

Morgan Daisy
Customer Service

Ah-HA! Montgomery county is (in part) the culprit!  While I too was bothered by the way SG handled this, I DON NOT BLAME THEM for refusing to bend over for Montgomery county and Anapolis.

As an example,  I live in Virginia (right next to DC). I refuse to participate in MD's "reloading propellant registration program" - (they photocopy your license if you buy powder or primers.). I won't put up with it. I won't buy in MD.  SG won't sell to places where they have to participate in a crooked MD scheme. Same idea.

Conversely, we have launched an attack on SG. Looks like those efforts should have been directed at Montgomery County and Anapolis municipal governments to force THEM to change THEIR policy, not force SG to "register ammo buyers". Do you really want SG to start keeping records on you for the use of the State Police (sounds a bit like "police state", no?).

So, lets re-direct our efforts against the real villains here: Montgomery County. and Anapolis gov.s What address do we need? who do we e-mail? Is there and MD counterpart to the Virginia Citizens Defense League?  

Quoted: I located this on  the VA section of HomeTown: looks like MD's local laws are at fault, not SG Quoted: Ok here is the reply I got from them Dear Mr. Cook, Thank you for the E-mail. We do not have any restrictions at this time on West Virginia which is the state on your account. As for the web site that you provided a link to we can send ammunition to any location except for the following location, and the reasons are listed. Montgomery County as whoever conducts business in Montgomery County is required to register with the Montgomery County Department of Police by maintaining on file with that department at all time a valid current copy of his federal ammunition dealers license. Also regarding Maryland no ammunition can be sent to the City of Annapolis because each person engaged in the business of selling or exchanging any firearms except shotguns and air and cat rifles or ammunition shall keep a register of the name and addresses of the person purchasing any firearms, cartridges or other ammunition noting the make, caliber and date of purchase. The register shall be open to the inspection of the police at all times, unfortunately as a company we have decided not to send ammunition to the above stated locations. If you have any other questions please contact us. Enjoy the Outdoors, Morgan Daisy Customer Service Ah-HA! Montgomery county is (in part) the culprit!  While I too was bothered by the way SG handled this, I DON NOT BLAME THEM for refusing to bend over for Montgomery county and Anapolis. As an example,  I live in Virginia (right next to DC). I refuse to participate in MD's "reloading propellant registration program" - (they photocopy your license if you buy powder or primers.). I won't put up with it. I won't buy in MD.  SG won't sell to places where they have to participate in a crooked MD scheme. Same idea. Conversely, we have launched an attack on SG. Looks like those efforts should have been directed at Montgomery County and Anapolis municipal governments to force THEM to change THEIR policy, not force SG to "register ammo buyers". Do you really want SG to start keeping records on you for the use of the State Police (sounds a bit like "police state", no?). So, lets re-direct our efforts against the real villains here: Montgomery County. and Anapolis gov.s What address do we need? who do we e-mail? Is there and MD counterpart to the Virginia Citizens Defense League?

So why didn't they use this as the reason for not selling in the first place?

The "too close to DC" line cost them alot of customers.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
I located this on the VA section of HomeTown: looks like MD's local laws are at fault, not SG


Quoted:
Ok here is the reply I got from them

Dear Mr. Cook,
Thank you for the E-mail.

We do not have any restrictions at this time on West Virginia which is the state on your account. As for the web site that you provided a link to we can send ammunition to any location except for the following location, and the reasons are listed. Montgomery County as whoever conducts business in Montgomery County is required to register with the Montgomery County Department of Police by maintaining on file with that department at all time a valid current copy of his federal ammunition dealers license. Also regarding Maryland no ammunition can be sent to the City of Annapolis because each person engaged in the business of selling or exchanging any firearms except shotguns and air and cat rifles or ammunition shall keep a register of the name and addresses of the person purchasing any firearms, cartridges or other ammunition noting the make, caliber and date of purchase. The register shall be open to the inspection of the police at all times, unfortunately as a company we have decided not to send ammunition to the above stated locations.

If you have any other questions please contact us.

Enjoy the Outdoors,

Morgan Daisy
Customer Service

Ah-HA! Montgomery county is (in part) the culprit! While I too was bothered by the way SG handled this, I DON NOT BLAME THEM for refusing to bend over for Montgomery county and Anapolis.

As an example, I live in Virginia (right next to DC). I refuse to participate in MD's "reloading propellant registration program" - (they photocopy your license if you buy powder or primers.). I won't put up with it. I won't buy in MD. SG won't sell to places where they have to participate in a crooked MD scheme. Same idea.

Conversely, we have launched an attack on SG. Looks like those efforts should have been directed at Montgomery County and Anapolis municipal governments to force THEM to change THEIR policy, not force SG to "register ammo buyers". Do you really want SG to start keeping records on you for the use of the State Police (sounds a bit like "police state", no?).

So, lets re-direct our efforts against the real villains here: Montgomery County. and Anapolis gov.s What address do we need? who do we e-mail? Is there and MD counterpart to the Virginia Citizens Defense League?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




So why didn't they use this as the reason for not selling in the first place?

The "too close to DC" line cost them alot of customers.
_____________________________________________________________________

I agree with you. That is why I wrote: "While I too was bothered by the way SG handled this,"
I think it may have been a matter of an il-informed lady in customer service who did not have her story right as to why the company resisted selling to Mongomery county and Annapolis (due it appears to those location's requirement that SG spy on customers for the State police.  What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Looks like the state & minicipalities are guilty here. SG? They are just clumsy in thier business practices, thats all.  And yes, it appears to have cost them.  Now, lets take it to the State.

Also the Annapolis Cities ZIP code also overlaps into part of Anne Arundel County.  So you live in the county proper but have a city zip.


The same thing happens when you get closer to Baltimore City too.

From the Annapolis City Code:

11.44.030 Firearms and ammunition--Register of purchasers.
Each person engaged in the business of selling or exchanging any firearms, except shotguns and air and cat rifles, or ammunition, shall keep a register of the name and address of the person purchasing any firearms, cartridges or other ammunition, noting the make, caliber and date of purchase. The register shall be open to the inspection of the police at all times. (Prior code § 17-8)

11.44.040 Firearms and ammunition--Registration of sellers.
Each person engaged in the business of selling or exchanging any kind of firearms or ammunition shall register his name and place of business with the City Clerk. (Prior code § 17-9)


The code applies to persons (defined earlier in the code to include corporations), in the City of Annapolis, engaged in the business of selling . . . ammunition.  As SG does not have a physical presence in the City of Annapolis, I doubt the code applies to them.  But I don't entirely fault them for intepreting the code broadly and covering their corporate assets.  

As noted above, they could have saved themselves a lot of emails if their management had controlled the issue, explained their position, and not responded with "too close to the District of Columbia, . . . in Maryland, . . . MAY NOT BE LEGALLY PURCHASED IN YOUR AREA."

But I live in Anne Arundel County......though the address is "Annapolis" our zip code is unique to a very narrow swath of AA County.  Still won't send it to me.

I guess that ordinance explains why there are no gun stores within the Annapolis City limits

Quoted: The code applies to persons (defined earlier in the code to include corporations), in the City of Annapolis, engaged in the business of selling . . . ammunition.  As SG does not have a physical presence in the City of Annapolis, I doubt the code applies to them.  But I don't entirely fault them for intepreting the code broadly and covering their corporate assets.

And did they bother to check with either the MD AG and their own attorney as to whether or not it is even possible for this to apply to them, as they are not a resident of that jurisdiction?  There are also requirements for collecting sales tax, advertising, etc.  Do they comply with those on their non-firearm items?  Or do they assume (correctly) that since they resident in the area, it doesn't apply to them?

More nonsense . . .

MD has a preemption law that is supposed to render these local laws moot. Atlantic Guns sued MoCo back in the 1980's over its stupid ammo-buyer registration - and WON!

http://mlis.state.md.us/other/Legislative_Handbooks/Volume%20VI/chapter5.htm

State Preemption The State may preempt a local law in the following three ways: (1) express preemption; (2) implied preemption; and (3) preemption by conflict. Express preemption is based on the authority of the General Assembly to reserve for itself "exclusive dominion over an entire field of legislative concern." (Ad + Soil, Inc. v. County Comm'rs, 307 Md. 307, 324 (1986)) Express preemption is not difficult to discern because the language generally is clear and unambiguous. An example of express preemption was recognized by the Court of Appeals in invalidating a Montgomery County ordinance regulating the sale of ammunition. (Montgomery County v. Atlantic Guns, Inc., 302 Md. 540 (1985)) The court ruled that the State had expressly preempted this area.

MidwayUSA had the same policy as SG until someone sent their GC's office a copy of the Atlantic Guns court opinion. I can't remember if it was THR, but there was a similar discussion thread almost identical to this SG thread within the past year, but about MidwayUSA . . . .even when their stupid laws aren't even valid, we get jerked around.

for eshell and all the other guys who are rightfully angered at the practices of Sportsman's Guide as of late.  To add to it, I positively can not STAND Internet retail sites that tell me that I can't have 20 round mags in MD.  Well, I can, but all of these guys are misinformed, so if I want 20's, I have to find retailers who either don't care at all about the regulations or retailers who actually know the MD state laws.  

Well if we make enough noise about this and we don't "win" we just might get other suppliers of ammo to stop shipping to us as well.  MD has a law that keeps local jurisdictions from regulating firearms sales which may make these local regulations illegal - but do we really want to create this battle right now?
 
Sometimes it's best to leave it alone.

Quoted: Well if we make enough noise about this and we don't "win" we just might get other suppliers of ammo to stop shipping to us as well.  MD has a law that keeps local jurisdictions from regulating firearms sales which may make these local regulations illegal - but do we really want to create this battle right now?   Sometimes it's best to leave it alone.

Like we should have left the AWB ban alone, in case they came up with more restrictions?  Like we should have left Ruger and S&W alone, because they were respected companies and hurting them would hurt the industry?

Are you seriously suggesting we IGNORE the existence of an illegal law and just HOPE it won't get worse if not challenged?

Humm... I said "sometimes" - so it's good to see others have spoken and are ready to go - maybe I'm getting too old.  

So if we want to move forward on stopping this problem, I think the way to go is the MD AGs office - we need to file a complaint that these regulations violate the state law that preempts local regulation of firearms.  It weould be really good if someone could find the old MD AG opinion that was written when some local jurisdictions tried to ban the sale of Ammo as a way areound the law.

Can anyone dig up the old opinion?  

Quoted: .. I think the way to go is the MD AGs office - we need to file a complaint that these regulations violate the state law that preempts local regulation of firearms. .

You kidding right?

You want to contant the guy that wrote 'A Farewell to Arms', outlining his strategy of removing firearms from civilian hands, and ask him to spend time & budget to kill a gun control law that he probably supports?

If you want to do anything political I'd suggest spending the political capital on important items like preventing any new state level gun control (you know they will be pushing for a new AWB this year) and/or helping MSI (Maryland Shall-Issue www.marylandshallissue.org) get their agenda forwarded.

Should be possible to challenged the law, using the response from SG as evidence of it causing (minor, but documentable) damage to someone.  Would take a lawyer and some time, but the courts should clearly find that the law violates pre-emption.  Contact Maryland Shall Issue and GOA, as well as NRA.

Forest is clearly more informed than I am about the AG.  My point is that Mont Co certainly won't care - I think it would help us all if we had copies of the case to review ourselves - same with the Atlantic Guns lawsuit.  I assume this is all in the public record somewhere.  I just do not know how to find it.

Quoted: Quoted: I have not found anywhere in the VA Code where it says you can't (otherwise) have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. But that's me, some internet dude . . .  Anyone not sure about this issue should CTA and check with VCDL (they have lawyers who will give you the straight dope). I'll pass it up for doublecheck.  Thanks.

Having heard nothing in refutation, I'm assuming your information is correct.  Thanks for the info.  (Yes, I know YANAL)

Quoted: Has anybody ever ordered from ammoman.com? I have been cruising his web site for quite a while. I wonder if he has a similar restriction, probably not right?

I've ordered thousands of rounds of various ammo from Ammoman many times. I live in Maryland in close proximity to D.C. Ammoman always delivers without question. No BS, and they always get me the product within 2-3 business days.

I highly recommend Ammoman.

I just sent of this message to SportsmansGuide.com. I had not seen this thread until I did a search on them.

I just had almost $2000 worth of merchandise in my shopping cart at your store. As is regular practice for me the first time I shop anywhere online, I check for reviews of the company to be sure I am dealing with a safe entity.

What I found in your case is even more troubling than poor customer support. I found this message thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=29&t=219580&page=1
and I am appalled by your choice to restrict freedoms for no good reason. That you refuse to ship ammo to Maryland residents because they live next to Washington, D.C. is ludicrous.

My order did not contain any ammo, but I cannot support your company in light of this finding and thought I should let you know.

Every one of these helps. I urge all who read this to do the same.

Quoted: I've ordered thousands of rounds of various ammo from Ammoman many times. I live in Maryland in close proximity to D.C. Ammoman always delivers without question. No BS, and they always get me the product within 2-3 business days. I highly recommend Ammoman.

Equipment Exchange •  Feedback ONLY •  Screwed by AMMOMAN.COM aka Discount Distributors   (Page 1)