Since the legislature adjourned early the UBCs should go into effect in February?

To buy a new rifle or shotgun will I need a purchase permit from the Sheriffs office?

Will long guns be registered moving forward?

When buying a new long gun do I need secondary proof of address or just my drivers license with my current address?

I'm curious about this information too and the procedures.

Also with the 2 current Court rulings elsewhere in the Country can we get a group together to fight these new rules in court? I don't have money, but I'd be willing to be a participant in the legal proceedings.

I'm down with fighting,
-Permit to Purchase
-Registration that prevents non-CPL holders from possessing friends and families firearms.
-Fact that a firearm owned by a Trust with Multiple members can't be used on an RI60 because it can only be registered to an individul...

So we've gone from no purchase permit with a CPL all the way around to need a purchase permit for long guns as well.....

Fuck this state and everyone who keeps voting these idiots in to office....

It’s all horseshit. But it’s easily searchable online. I fully encourage you to read the actual text of the law too.

LANSING — Michigan gun laws have changed, with new laws related to universal background checks, gun storage, and temporary removal of guns from people a judge deems dangerous, all taking effect Feb. 13, 2024.

The Michigan Legislature passed the new laws last spring after Democrats, who already controlled the governor's office, flipped both the state House and Senate from red to blue in the November 2022 election, giving that party its first "trifecta" in Lansing in 40 years.

Though the measures had been part of the Democrats' legislative agenda for years, the speed with which they were passed was likely influenced by two mass shootings in Michigan. On Feb. 13, 2023, Anthony McRae, 43, of Lansing killed three Michigan State University students and injured five others before leaving campus and fatally shooting himself. Before that, on Nov. 30, 2021, Oxford High School student Ethan Crumbley, then 15, used a gun his parents bought him to murder four students and injure six students and a teacher. Crumbley has pleaded guilty and faces multiple sentences of life in prison.

Anyone convicted of a felony is barred from possessing a firearm under federal law, as is anyone convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence.
Because they passed by narrow vote margins, the gun bills Gov. Gretchen Whitmer signed into law did not take effect immediately. Instead, they become effective on the 91st day after the Legislature adjourns for the year in 2023. Adjournment usually happens in late December, meaning the bills would take effect in the latter part of March 2024. But this year, lawmakers adjourned early, in November, and as a result the bills take effect in February.

What's the new law on background checks?

Under Public Act 19 of 2023, along with Public Act 18 and Public Act 22, all Michigan gun sales generally require the buyer to undergo a background check.

That's a big change from the previous law, under which only handgun buyers were subject to a background check in order to obtain the required purchase license, though some federal criminal background checks were also required for firearms other than handguns when purchasing from a federally licensed dealer.

The new law essentially replaces the word "pistol" in state law with the word "firearm," extending the requirement to first obtain a license — and undergo a state background check — to rifles and shotguns.

Prospective gun purchasers can appear at any local law enforcement agency and, after successfully passing the background check conducted through the Michigan State Police, obtain a purchase license after signing a sworn statement that they meet Michigan qualifications.

Michigan passed new laws in 2023 related to background checks, safe storage and removal of guns from people deemed a threat to themselves or others.
The law applies the same to firearms obtained as gifts as it does to firearms that are purchased.

Someone on leave from the U.S. armed forces or discharged from active duty who brings a firearm into Michigan would have to obtain a license for it not more than 30 days after entering the state.

Gun sales that take place prior to the effective date of the new law are exempt from the new requirements.

Also, once the new law takes effect, anyone purchasing a shotgun or rifle is exempt from the requirement to get a license if they undergo a background check through a federally licensed gun dealer within five days of making the purchase.
What if I inherit a gun?

Under the new law, anyone who inherits a firearm is required to obtain a license — and thereby undergo a background check — no more than 30 days after taking possession of the gun.

If the person designated to inherit the firearm is not qualified for a license, they can ask the next of kin or executor of the estate to dispose of the gun in any lawful manner.

Are there exceptions to the licensing requirement?

Those who hold concealed pistol licenses are generally exempted from the requirement to obtain a license before purchasing a gun, as are federally licensed firearms dealers, gun dealers purchasing from wholesalers, and police officers licensed under the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards Act.

The licensing requirement also does not apply to the purchase or sale of guns not made for modern ammunition that are kept as relics or curiosity items, or to guns that have been made permanently non-functional.

Non-residents of Michigan who are in possession of a license from their home state to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol are exempt from state licensing requirements to purchase a gun.

What are the penalties for violating the licensing/background check law?

Purchasing or possessing a handgun without obtaining a license is already a misdemeanor punishable by up to 90 days in jail and a fine of up to $100. The new law extends that beyond handguns to all firearms.

A person who forges any item on an application for a gun license, or who makes a materially false statement on a gun sale record, is guilty of a felony punishable by up to four years in prison and a fine of up to $2,000.

A person who attempts to use false identification to purchase a firearm is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by up to 90 days in jail and a fine of up to $100.



https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/08/13/michigan-gun-laws-background-checks-storage-red-flags-changes/70432935007/

Sure sounds like A bunch of Unconstitutional Crap to me, are they going to go take the guns from the Violent Felons, and Gangs?  
Sounds like they want people to register their long guns with the local Sherrif office if you Transfer ownership.  They should stop the Pistol registering garbage.

“ANY” LE agency? That would make things easier.  I live in the township with no PD. There are several local PDs closer than my county sheriff. I suspect the article is wrong on that point though…

Just last week a similar law was just struck down in the State of Oregon.

Under the Oregon constitution not the 2A. So it doesn’t impact anyone else. Though Maryland handgun licenses being ruled unconstitutional may spread to other states. If Michigan ever gets an effective gun rights group with good lawyers. Something like FPC, but Michigan based.

So here's the skinny. It is IMPERATIVE that you read the actual law, not the BS propaganda news versions of the law.

For example,

"(5) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a firearm, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the firearm, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign the seller’s name in ink indicating that the firearm was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign the purchaser’s name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the firearm from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction, shall provide a copy of the license to the purchaser, and, if the firearm is a pistol, shall return 1 copy of the license to the licensing authority not later than 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. The seller shall return the copy to the licensing authority in person or by first-class mail or certified mail sent in the 10-day period to the proper address of the licensing authority. A seller who fails to comply with the requirements of this subsection is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $250.00. If a seller is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this subsection, the court shall notify the department of state police of that determination."

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2023-2024/publicact/htm/2023-PA-0019.htm

Its important to be clear when talking about this law, it is not long gun registration. There is NO provision requiring that, that I have found, if I'm wrong please let me know and I'll happily edit this. What it is, is a clear attempt by the slime in lansing to control the possession of private property. We had a chance to get rid of Pistol registration in MI but Synder vetoed it, even though it has never once been used to solve a crime. I've personally been into and seen what passes for the registry, and there is a reason its never been used to solve a crime. Its a birds nest of confused old ladies entering incomplete or mistaken information about guns into an antique computer system.

Thanks for providing some clarity. Have you ever seen some charged for possession of an unregistered pistol? Or a pistol registered to someone else?

Stop running garbage candidates on the R side.  R's ran a pro-life candidate in a pro-choice state and lost.

I'm not now nor ever was a cop, I used to do dispatch and LEIN years ago. LEIN is a complete shit show. I am not a lawyer either, so my opinion is worth exactly the paper its printed on.

That said, I haven't heard of either. Purely anecdotal though.

There's lots of threads to pollute with the abortion argument, this isn't one of them.

Looks like most of my questions have been answered except for the secondary proof a residence. That’s more a federal / FFL policy though than state law question.

When buying a long gun from a dealer do you need secondary proof of address like a vehicle registration or tax bill? Or is that just for handguns?

Yes to the first, no to the second. (At least that wasn't a stolen gun, or being used in some criminal act)

How’s that work out? Considering the “registration” is really just a record of transfer. Is it a ticket? Does the gun get confiscated?

When they changed it to the buyer turning in the paperwork I know a lot of buyers who stopped doing so.

Now it’s going back to the sellers responsibility

I've only dealt with the situation from working in a jail and dealing with the court paperwork on that end.

The times I've seen it is when it's secondary to another crime. Like a CCW violation, then they'll tack an unreg firearm charge to it. Or a armed robbery etc etc.

(IIRC) It's a 93 day misdemeanor in MI. A police officer could give someone a summons to appear, but I don't deal with that side of things.

I worked in a couple counties, in the job for close to a decade and I've never seen anyone sentenced to jail to just a unregistered pistol charge.

Every county, prosecutor and judge is different. I've worked places that were more conservative than not.

This is not legal advice, only what I have seen.

If I'm reading this right, the responsibility to send in a copy of the RI-060 now falls on the seller, and not the buyer.  

That sucks, as it's now your duty to inform the State on your fellow gun owners.  Sheesh . . .

As I understand it, yes. Effective February 13, 2024

Reading through the bill
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2023-2024/publicact/htm/2023-PA-0019.htm

Reading this section it appears CPL holders are exempt for the license and registration of both pistol and rifle. Only requiring a NICS check?
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Sec. 2a. (1) The following individuals are not required to obtain a license under section 2 to purchase, carry, possess, use, or transport a firearm:
(a) An individual licensed under section 5b, except for an individual who has an emergency license issued under section 5a(4) or a receipt serving as a concealed pistol license under section 5b(9) or 5l(3).
(b) A federally licensed firearms dealer.
(c) An individual currently employed as a police officer who is licensed or certified under the Michigan commission on law enforcement standards act, 1965 PA 203, MCL 28.601 to 28.615.
(d) An individual purchasing a firearm other than a pistol who has a federal national instant criminal background check performed on the individual by a federally licensed firearms dealer not more than 5 days before the purchase.

Will we have to register the long guns we already own after the new law goes into effect?

No.

I was reading through this section the other day as well, and the more I read it the less sense it makes. Has MGO or MCRGO or anyone similar had a lawyer or someone smarter than me look at this yet? Because I'm hesitantly inclined to agree with rpd_fire, but I am woefully ignorant.

In the payed section of https://www.migunowners.org/forum/forum.php they have a chart that is very helpful. It seems like a purchase permit is the easy way to go there are better but you have to find a needle in the haystack FFL/seller probably or FFL that is an Attorney.

so as a dealer I have to fill out a RI60 for a customer buying a long gun, but dont have to submit it anywhere? even though im doing a 4473, does the customer still take a copy then as well? and i have to fill in all the info like barrel length, overall length etc..

The chart makes things pretty clear for the most part, thanks for posting that.

Ugh - it won't let me see anything but the forum landing page.



I just found a gun I want to buy advertised, and the seller is nervous about being compliant with the new laws. I'm trying to figure out what to do to be legal. What a bunch of bullshit.


I hope the lefties in Lansing are happy that they have made it more difficult to get a bolt-action .22 rifle for a small boy to go shoot paper targets at the range (and maybe a squirrel one day) ... before they go back to coddling the violent thugs making cities in this state unlivable.


Let me add this to the list of reasons to leave this place.

The "law" (eyeroll) doesn't go into effect until 2/14, you should be able to buy it like normal-I hand you money/you hand me gun, done.

I discovered that today.

I'll be able to do this now, but it looks like the new law makes buying a rifle as complicated as buying a pistol before.

I'm still looking into it. I didn't have time to read the whole thing today, but learning that it doesn't go into effect for a few more days does make this easier.

I know people get all "squirrely" when asking about NOT obeying (gun) laws, but how is this enforceable/punishable ? Wouldn't the person you sell it to have to commit some crime for it even be able to start tracing it back to you, and how do they prove it was done after the start date anyways ??

(I'm mostly referring to long guns, as handguns have additional hang ups).

I'm with this. Is there a law on how long to hold onto the forms once the sale is done?

Every time I've sold a handgun, I've thrown the paperwork away.

One week.

Any FFLs received training on the new laws from the state?

From my understanding non compliance is a misdemeanor fine. While forging a purchase permit is a felony.

I have not received anything on the new laws.

I am guessing we will not be notified.

I work for an FFL in Northern Wisconsin, and we're going to be suspending transfers/sales of long-guns to Michigan residents until we can figure out how this affects us.

ATF says we have to comply with all the laws of the person's home-state, and we've gotten no reply from any of the Michigan agencies we've contacted regarding this. If any of you Michigan FFL's do receive any information, I'd appreciate an "@" or PM.

We'd like to restore service to our Michigan customers as soon as possible.

Not a damn thing.

New regs are supposed to posted on Tues, Feb 13, 2024 to mi.gov/MSP>firearms.....The same day the laws actually go in effect....Or not (quoting the MSP rep)

Have any lawsuits been filed about all this idiocy?

I will be required to hand out papers and have customers sign forms in less than two days, but those forms don't exist. When and if they do become available the FFL has to eat the cost of providing Democrat approved Anti-Gun / pro Gun-Control propaganda.

"(3) A federally licensed firearms dealer shall not sell a firearm in this state unless the firearm is
accompanied with, free of charge, a brochure or pamphlet that includes safety information on the use and
storage of the firearm in a home environment.
(4) Upon the sale of a firearm, a federally licensed firearms dealer shall sign a statement and require the
purchaser to sign a statement stating that the sale is in compliance with subsections (1), (2), and (3)"

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(e22umwyuebbjk41ewqr0xlzh))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422a-amended

The law requires that I sign "a statement" maybe that statement should be "Democrats are cancer and should be treated as such"

Reposted info from migunowners.org

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/inside-mdhhs/newsroom/2024/02/08/firearms-laws

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/-/media/Project/Websites/mdhhs/Safety-and-Injury-Prevention/Firearm-Safety/Firearm-Storage-Penalties.pdf

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/-/media/Project/Websites/mdhhs/Safety-and-Injury-Prevention/Firearm-Safety/Lethal-Means-Prevention.pd

https://www.michigan.gov/msp/forms-stats/forms

If there is a known class action lawsuit, I sure AF want to jump aboard.



Right on.

When the AFT/Fed gov't requires/burdens us with paperwork, pamphlets, etc., at least they provide us a portal to order from and they ship free of charge.

With these state changes, why the fuck are WE are expected to eat the cost of printing and dispelling their propaganda/agenda at our expense, when we sure as hell didn't vote for/nor ask for these changes? THEIR tyranny, THEY should be footing the bill. Ink & toner cartridges and paper aren't free.

I see the 3 new mandated pamphlets, but where is this "statement" that customers are supposed to sign? How the hell is MDHHS being put in charge of this? Good luck getting in contact with anybody at MDHHS to ask questions/obtain documents. One can't even get anybody at MDHHS on the horn, let alone answer any questions.

That is an excellent question, if I figure it out I'll post it.

I went to WCSO and requested some of those Project Child Safe pamphlets (thought I saw something like that before) and copies/info on the new RI-010 today.
"Uhhhhhh...you mean a trigger lock?" They had no pamphlets, no early release copies and no information regarding this new cluster fuck, asides from: "We've been telling non-CPL holders that they need to come get a permit before buying/transferring from an FFL."

So okay, which of the 3 following documents are required to be provided? Or are they all required, and with each and every sale?

The "Firearm Safety and Harm Prevention (MDHHS)" doc is 1 page, the "Firearm Storage Requirement and Penalties (MDHHS)" doc is 2 pages, the "Project Child Safe" pamphlet is......11 frikken pages?! I am not seeing a link to order this PCS pamphlet free of charge on either the PCS website: https://projectchildsafe.org/educational-materials/ or thru NSSF: https://nssf.my.site.com/CPBase__store?page=a0Z15000007fxd3EAA&site=a0d1500000BFszkAAD

NSSF is usually on top of things, but has NOT scheduled a webinar, nor provided any assistance for MI FFLs on how to navigate thru this mess as of yet.

I Spoke with a Nathan at MSP firearm records last week and he had no idea what I was talking about. He was aware of the LTP for handguns, but had no idea what forms would be needed for anything else.

Just seems to be par for the course.

You almost got to give the devil his due -- they can't "ban" guns, but they'll make the whole process nearly impossible to do correctly/legally.

The new RI-60s are posted.

https://public.powerdms.com/MSP1917/documents/1742579

https://public.powerdms.com/MSP1917/documents/1742580

Interestingly they also changed the RI-60A to the same format at the new RI-60s, removing any doubt of their intention to have all firearms registered in the near future. RI-60a is for use only by FFLs to register multiple pistols, now says firearms, but FFLs are exempt from the new requirements for long guns currently. So this change makes no sense, without intent to change the law in the near future.

I can't get a solid answer from any agency on how out-of-state FFL's are supposed to comply with these requirements.

This is some serious bullshit for you guys.

The same way you comply with a buyer from California or New York? You ship to an FFL in the buyers home state.

It's really unfortunate but this is probably the safest option.

Roughly 20% of our customers are from the UP, since we're about 40 miles from the border. This will create an interesting issue for some of our pawn customers as well, regarding our own state laws on pawned property.