Our fenced in dog park here in Janesville has had a visitor thats been visiting the area for the last few weeks. A fucking coyote. Theres a pheasant farm right next to the dog park and its so far staying on the other side of the fence.

Well yesterday someone down there posted on the fb page that it was playing with her 3 dogs by running back and forth along the fence with the dogs. APparently she thinks its cute, but I guarantee she has no idea that a single yote can kill a large dog. Its worse when the small dog area is along side the "marsh" between the park and the pheasant farm.  

Not taking Barrett there until its gone. Park is within city limits and they probably would be a bit miffed if someone is walking around open carrying a rifle.

Night time thermal with a crossbow...
Preferably when there's a light snow .

S.S.S.  

...2nd S., in this, case stands for "Scram"!

Which, if you have a small game license, is 100% legal as far as DNR regs are concerned..

Never been done before..
As long as you are 300 feet away( unless the owner agrees , alot less)a shotgun with buckshot out of a ice shanty works well.
#4B 3" at inside 50 yards is GTG.

PCP air rifle with previously mentioned thermal. Or in the daytime. A good pcp gun is quiet enough no one will know.

Oh forgot the pic.

I have been told by some of our customers, in a hypothetical situation where killing/wounding an animal is undesirable, that the rubber buck-shot we sell could be quite useful in discouraging a critter's continued presence.

I have no animosity towards coyotes.

Don't think there are many around me.
Have never seen one or even a set of tracks.
Red Foxes, yes, but coyotes no.

If one complains they eat fawns, I say good, lots of deer around here, I find fawns every year. They need some thinning. Coyotes killing 1/2 of them would be a good start. Deer need predators to keep them in check. Man ain't doing the job.

If one complains they eat kitty cats I say good, cats, whether feral or someones pet that are running around out in the wild killing birds and other assorted stuff live by the sword and they can die by the sword. Keep your cat in the house or you better be OK with it not coming home one day.

If one complains they kill dogs I say why was your dog running around uncontrolled? If there is a real danger of a coyote killing your pet you have the responsibility to do your best to keep it safe. That doesn't mean killing any animal that might be a danger to your darling dog.

I don't see the down side of having coyotes around.

No, I don't bother them, they don't bother me.


Please to enlighten me on the hatred.

If you lived on a farm or out in the country you wouldn't have to ask. Same goes with wolfs. There was a reason out forefathers killed them off. Yet some people and the DNR think it's a great idea to have them around, again. City idiots.

Several years ago they were taking pets on the leash in a Wauwatosa park.

Are you from Illinois? You sound like a Flatlander...

We had a "barn cat" that was a good mouse & chipmonk hunter. She was BIG too. She had a mean dispostion and she was not de-clawed. She was approached by a young coyote behind the house one day... have you ever seen a Garfield cartoon? That's exactly what it looked like. That yote probably never messed with a "kitty cat" again...

Historically,  coyotes were not found here.
They were always west of the Mississippi River, our brilliant DNR released them in the '60s.
Red and grey fox were always here, and did quite well up to the early '80s.
As far as fawn predation,  black bears are the most successful.

Our fore fathers were rather ignorant on many things and wildlife and the natural environment were 2 of those things.

The examples of poor decisions environment wise are legion, introduction of carp, multi-flora rose, autumn olive, starlings, English sparrows etc etc etc.
aside for the poor introductions there was elimination of the most populous bird on the continent, Passenger pigeons.
Not to mention the dumping into our water ways as they were seen as a place to dump anything and everything.
I can go on and on about the lack of wisdom of our fore fathers.

Killing off wolves is bad for the environment, as without a check on the deer herd it will eat itself out of house and home. In many places deer have to be excluded from acres of land or the natural reproduction of many trees is impossible due to deer over population.
Man is not managing the deer herd properly. Where I live the deer herd is so high it either eliminates many native pants and or any chance for reproduction of native plants. Whits Oaks are a good example.

a wise man once said

"I now suspect that just as a deer herd lives in mortal fear of its wolves, so does a mountain live in mortal fear of its deer. And perhaps with better cause, for while a buck pulled down by wolves can be replaced in two or three years, a range pulled down by too many deer may fail of replacement in as many decades."

Only a ignorant person would deny the reality of deer overpopulation and the lack of proper control by man. It may not be a problem where you are but it is in large sections of the US.

I live out in the country on 26 acres. I see the effects of deer overpopulation regularly. My neigbors that live on farms or in the country are blind to this, they at time are as bad as city idiots as you call them. They all know the value of White Oaks as food for wildlife and its high commercial value. They feel that their woodlots are in good shape they want to continue to have these trees there well into the future. After all they say look at all the oaks in my woods. Till you point out they are all mature trees, none younger than 70-100 years and ask them whats going to replace them once they fall? No seedlings and no saplings due to poor management of their woods and most of all overpopulation of deer so that any seedlings that did get started are eliminated before they could be come a sapling. After I point this out they then understand why I'm caging and planting White Oaks in my woods as well as performing prescribed burns in my woods.

nope, grew up in a small town in WI.

Historically we had wolves over the entire state, thats why there were few to no coyotes. We also had caribou, buffalo and elk not mention other animals that are now gone.
I doubt the dnr released coyotes, have any proof of that? Just like the wolves that are here now they migrated in as a spot was opened up they could exploit.
Don't have a sustainable black bear population in the southern 1/2 of the state tho occasionally one will migrate down and they are seen.
So in the southern 1/2 there are no significant predators for deer other coyotes for fawns only for a short while in the spring.

I hope your not implying that cause coyotes are not "native" to this area we should try to eliminate them.
Thats a big can of worms that I'll bet you'd not want to apply to all other animals.

Overall I would bet that coyotes are net positive. Are you aware of the effect of coyotes on mesopredators?
DU and Pheasants forever have come out in support of having coyotes in the environment.

do some research, read some studies on coyotes, mesopredators and population dynamics of deer and coyotes.
Nothing better than an informed opinion.

OK,  my uncle worked with ILDOC(il dnr) and Wi DNR in the '60s and '70s breeding and releasing coyotes and beaver all over Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin.

I personally helped with wild turkey reintroduction for an Eagle Scout badge in the same said area.( mid '80s)
It was the talk of how they were going to "help things "
I do know that they reintroduced certain species into the Avon Bottoms...

You should check your resources..
Unless you actually have been there, or your misinformation.

first I've heard about that. Would love to see some info from that. How many, where, objectives and so on. I am always looking to learn. Can you send me any info on that?

Even so without DNR introducing coyotes do you not think they would not eventually migrated in on their own?
No way of telling how many of the coyotes in WI are from that effort. Or how many migrated in WI from MN, IA, IL, IN, or the U.P.

do some looking into mesopredator theory. Basically larger predators drive out or reduce smaller predators. Wolves driving out bobcats and coyotes, coyotes reducing numbers of foxes, skunks, raccoons and possums.
without a top predator lower predators will expand. Want more ducks, quail and pheasants, have more coyotes. Many studies have shown this.
Of course habitat is key for all prey species, if you want more rabbits/pheasants/ducks or whatever prey improve their habitat needs first.

First and foremost get rid of raptors if you're interested in upland birds.
Coyotes reducing numbers of raccoons,  skunks and possums is a new one to me...
Show me the numbers..

This isn't a discussion of where they came from,  it a discussion on how to control them.

They need to be controlled,  like the deer you're complaining about.
DNR puts a limit on deer,  why not coyotes? Attached File

I've been saying this for years, every time some idiot says "they were here first", I remind them that "they were here first" applies equally to all the big metro areas as well.  I can't wait until the first wolf depredation of a pet occurs in a burb of Madison or Milwaukee, so I can watch all the liberal bunnie-huggers' heads explode. If I could, I'd live trap a whole pack of a dozen or so of the all-too-numerous wolves in my 'neighborhood' and drop them off in a park in Madison, giving the "reintroduction" a kick in the pants to help it along... and watch the ensuing chaos with glee.

I live in the southern 1/2 of the state. I wouldn't mind wolves around here. I have no ox in this issue that can be gored. In fact they'd be doing me a favor if they knock the deer herd back. In the North the biggest cry comes from deer hunters and hound hunters. They have little sympathy from most of the powers that be.
While there is no trapping or hunting permitted I think its very plausible that wolves will expand south. I can see it happening in the Green Bay, Point and La Cross areas first. It'll work south from there. I do think that before it gets much farther south than that lots of dairy farmers will be up in arms. The whole logic supposedly is that wolves are endangered, once they start endangering more and more peoples way of life that will fall to the wayside. At that point it'll be interesting to see what happens when a big chunk of the more populated areas start having to deal with the issue. I suspect the narrative will fall away and those who are really in that camp will change to hunting/trapping is OK. There will be a smaller bunch that will start to argue that hunting/trapping is wrong no matter what. They will be a small minority and the bans will be lifted. This is what I see happening. 5 years? 10 years? i suspect more than that. The only way that doesn't happen is contract trappers/hunters start eliminating "problem" wolves in bigger numbers so as to stop the southerly spread keeping things at a equilibrium.

Incidentally I see that in another of your posts all the deer that you have around your home. I have been told by all my relation up north that seemingly the deer population has gotten much higher living close to human habitation where they have figured that its relatively safer from the wolves. Do you agree with this thought?

Its interesting in that I asked to be enlighten on why the hate and all I get is off base negative comments directed at me but nobody has given one reason why.

I have a good idea why, was just waiting to see if someone would verify my thoughts. I am disappointed, give me some reasons,  I want to see if my thoughts are valid.

Try reading your first post here? Pretty damn smug. BTW the dog park in question is a FENCED IN ONE for dogs to run. And these are the 1st reports of a coyote in that area and the 1st ones seen in the city limits on a long time. I know how bad they get when they lose their fear of humans and this one is starting to lose it.

Absolutely. I live in a small "subdivision" that was created in the 1970s when a 40 acre parcel adjacent to one of the 28 lakes of the Eagle River/Three Lakes chain was subdivided into 20 two acre lots, and roads and utilities were put in. My home was built in 1979-80. When I moved into it in 1991, there were still 3 vacant lots out of the 7 that were on my dead end road. 3 of those 4 now have homes, the 4th, directly across from me,  was bought up by the 2 adjacent neighbors and split in half (they each now have 3 acre lots). Behind this 40 is another 40 that was not subdivided. We are 4 miles from the Nicolet Nat'l Forest, where I've hunted since 1991. My deer stand is exactly 5 miles from my recliner in my family room "as the crow flies"... says every GPS I have consulted, including those hunting apps and a handheld Garmin.

Up until about 2008 or so, the Nicolet closest to us was teeming with deer...  seeing any here in my subdivision wasn't "rare", but it was unusual to see any during daylight hours. I saw my first wolf in 2010, while baiting for bear when my buddy from Muskego had his first bear tag. I baited for him, operated several trail cameras almost daily. It was one lone wolf, coming into the bear bait regularly.

We had 3 bear tags in 2015, and I was simply blown away by the number of wolf pictures I was now getting almost daily on my trail cameras. Whole packs...5,6,7 at a time. In that summer baiting season alone, I got 200+ wolf pictures... and ELEVEN pictures of deer between the 7 cameras we had out. ELEVEN! in 4 months! Prior to 2008, I'd get that many deer every single night.

The deer population shift has been remarkable to say the least.  In Feb of 2023, after the best acorn crop I'd seen since late 90s, my whole subdivision was overrun with deer, and I counted 44 deer at one time on one afternoon, just on my own 2 acres. They were digging through the snow to get at the acorns in the leaf piles where I blew the leaves off my half acre of lawn in the fall (there's 50+ acorn bearing red oaks on my 2 acres, neighbors all have about the same). Meanwhile, out in the Nicolet, from 2014 to 2021, I had not seen a single deer in all those gun seasons. Not ONE. Now, just something as simple as fresh deer tracks in the snow were a cause for celebration in our group, and that's no lie. I quit bowhunting in 2009, when I went a whole season not seeing a single deer...not one, in an area where I'd see dozens every day just 10 years earlier. I had no clue as to why. I heard rumors of wolves being seen, but thought it was just more coyote sightings. 10 years earlier, before I ever saw a wolf, nor any sign of them, the deer herd was healthy and thriving.

Why the big change in where the deer are? It's been said too many doe tags, too harsh of a winter are bigger reasons for the deer decline. And I say BULLSHIT. i live here, I'm in the woods a lot, I'm not blind nor stupid. The winters in the 2000s up until 2013 (2013 was a very harsh one, worst ever here statistically), the time period the deer numbers crashed, were not especially hard. They were normal winters, that deer have survived for centuries. As for the doe tags, the guys in my group of 7 did have some, but we still shot more bucks than does every year. Last doe I shot was in 2003, she was in a group of 7 deer under my treestand on opening morning. The area we hunt in didn't have any more does taken than recent years past... but the population still plummeted. If the bad winter of 2013 killed all the deer in the Nicolet, why didn't it kill all the deer in my area too? Why do we have more (many more) deer rather than less? And other populated areas saw the same deer number explosion between 2008 and 2015? That's the same time period when the numbers of wolves exploded, out where the deer numbers crashed in the areas of the "big" woods. Coincidence? LOL.. no fricken way. Did the wolves eat them all? Hell no... but they ate enough that the rest of them hightailed it (pun intended) out of the "wolf" zones to greener pastures. IMO, this is what most hunters are seeing too, it is what they are grumbling about. Those that hunt the public lands up north think the deer are all dead. They're not dead, they just up & left the areas where the wolves have taken over. The absolute lack of any deer on undeveloped/unpopulated public hunting land, where the wolves have moved in with the deer being driven into "safe" zones by the very presence of too many wolves, is the reality.    

Wolves don't have to kill a large number of deer to directly impact the deer population. Just their very presence as an alpha predator negatively affects the deer. Numbers of fawns born decrease, as even the rut is directly impaired. It makes them do all they can to avoid the predators they sense in the area, and that includes migrating away from the danger if possible (which they have done in large numbers, and not just where I live). The bad part is the wolves are beginning to follow them now, into the populated areas where the deer have sought shelter. The deer came here en mass because they fear the wolves far more than they fear us humans. I've recently seen a wolf in my subdivision, neighbors have also. Now when I take my Lab out in the woods behind my house, which borders that mostly undeveloped 40 acres, I never let her more than 25 yards away, and I am always armed (LOL... but I'm always carrying anyway, even before I saw the wolf back there), just like I am when we're in the Nicolet.

fwiw... over the past 15-20 minutes I've been typing this comment on my PC (which is right next to a window in my dining room) I have seen 6 deer stroll past. Including one of those nice 8 pointers in my deer pictures post.  I'm hoping he drops those antlers where we can find them.

don't mean to argue. I guess you can take my posts the way you want tho.
I never said the coyotes are going to eat ALL the cats, dogs and deer.
Coyotes are never going to eat ALL of these.
Some yes, some of the cats running wild, dogs running uncontrolled by their owners and some of the fawns being eaten is OK with me.






I can have a civil discussion with no insults.

As I suspect, thanks for the reply, interesting stuff.

Human nature.

V
OUT

There are a shit load of wolves in the southern half of the state. Adams and Juneau country have big populations. They were introduced into the Necedah wildlife refuge years ago and have vigorously spread.

I shoot coyotes every chance I get. Neighbors are “all natural” farmers. Sometimes a mom gives birth to a calf out in the pasture. If that happens, coyotes come in and kill the calf. Then kill the mom who is weak from giving birth.  Like wolves, coyotes will kill for fun not just when starving.
   The cows aren’t running wild. They are fenced in.  That’s the main reason we shoot them in the area.  
     About your dog/cat comment- I agree people should not have pets “running wild” but it happens. A farm dog that stays on his farm isn’t running wild he’s on his property.    

have they looked into livestock guardian dogs? There are those that raise sheep "all natural" that have no losses when using dogs. I would think sheep would have more issues with coyotes than cattle.

single guardian dog kills eight coyotes in pack of 11  https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/dec/06/casper-georgia-dog-protects-sheep-coyotes

Imagine that 2-3 dogs would be good enough.

Like I said I think that if you have pets or livestock your first highest responsibility is to protect and provide for the animals in your charge.
If your plan is to just try to kill anything and everything that might kill one your doing it wrong and you won't succeed.

Funny you mention that. They actually got a “wolf killer” dog last summer. Not sure of the real breed name.  I don’t think she’s full grown yet and she already looks like she’ll do a good job!

What we need is more kitty cats.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2024/01/16/michigan-man-captures-rare-video-of-cougar-killing-a-deer/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=DRAMATIC+VIDEO+SHOWS+COUGAR+TAKING+DOWN+DEER&utm_campaign=Outdoor+News+Weekly+Newsletter+-+1%2F22&vgo_ee=1pDEsSIsdbCOpPr2dL2pj8HBZF7KhLOUxcs8K1Mh4cdlr57oGeqcVA%3D%3D%3ANyHeR0BsM3mOz7sCDRiB2IIRMThLLVnD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pniDq1EALPw

Wow....

Caucasian Shepard? Those huge fuckers can take down a brown bear by itself.

I Google the one you mentioned. Some pics look similar. Looks like a kangal Shepard or Anatolian Shepard?  Big, tan color with black muzzle.
   I’ll ask next time I see him!

Not many around me. I spend lots of time out doors walking and working my small chunk of land (26 acres). Never seen any coyote tracks. Still have a few red foxes, see them occasionally and tracks all the time.  I hear coyotes howling maybe 2 or 3 times a year. I'm sure there are some around, not alot at least in my area.

Every year we find new born fawns. Too small to even run. Last year it was a pair of twins, both wet one with the after birth still on it. Plenty of deer.

The occasional cat wandering thru, They disappear after awhile, I suspect its the Great horned owls that keep the cats in check.

One of the neighbors has a bunch of huskies and German shepherds that run all over the country side. See them frequently on my place and on the road, surprised that one hasn't been hit yet.

Like I said for me it would be a good thing to have more of them around. Less deer, cats and maybe keep the uncontrolled dogs would be controlled if they had some issues with coyotes. All good things.

Another thing to realize, deer can and do over populate with disastrous long term results on the land. High Coyote populations are usually self correcting, disease, food supply and mortality from other coyotes keeps them in line. Prey populations when severally reduced spring back within a couple of years so no long term damage is done. So one must realize that too many deer is worse than too many coyotes.

We can hear coyotes howling several times a week. It sounds like a fairly big pack when they start yipping on three sides of you. There are a few hundred acres of woods nearby they can hang out. On the other side of the forest is a campground. Last summer someone put "missing cat" posters on every single post, sign, and road marker within 50 yards of the campground and trail heads. I assume they did not find the cat. Aside from the squirrels and raccoons, we do not see many small animals around. There are a lot fewer deer around too. We used to have herds of 30+ out in the fields after deer season. Now we are lucky to see 2-3 at a time. Thermals are on my short list for the yotes.