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User Panel
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Posted: 2/6/2024 5:14:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boom_Stick]
Same info but it seems to be looming. Anyone know where this bill stands as of now?
 How Washington State Will Destroy the FFL Industry |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2024 2:14:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Haven’t heard anything outside this video. Worth repeating: the parameters / requirements are intentionally so ludicrous that they will be virtually impossible to meet. I had an extensive conversation with Tom, owner of Securite’ in Woodinville, and he has a ton of concerns on the ability and sustainability to implement this.
Make no mistake: if this goes through as it’s currently written, the new mandate on a 10 day wait on all firearms is the least of our concerns. This will likely reduce ability to purchase any new firearms down to only a handful of FFLs in the state that have the financial and infrastructure means to pull it off. All part of the plan to keep people disarmed through roundabout means making it so difficult that people give up. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/7/2024 2:59:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PACorps: Haven’t heard anything outside this video. Worth repeating: the parameters / requirements are intentionally so ludicrous that they will be virtually impossible to meet. I had an extensive conversation with Tom, owner of Securite’ in Woodinville, and he has a ton of concerns on the ability and sustainability to implement this. Make no mistake: if this goes through as it’s currently written, the new mandate on a 10 day wait on all firearms is the least of our concerns. This will likely reduce ability to purchase any new firearms down to only a handful of FFLs in the state that have the financial and infrastructure means to pull it off. All part of the plan to keep people disarmed through roundabout means making it so difficult that people give up. Sounds like a civil rights violation worthy of fed SC review. |
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Posted: 2/7/2024 3:13:35 PM EDT
[#3]
The law would require better video record keeping than Epstein's prison cell
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2024 6:05:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Sounds like a civil rights violation worthy of fed SC review. There was a comment from Kirk at WGL that while the other issues are spinning in the courts possibly this one could get faster traction. Now we’re talking about shutting down the livelihoods of tons of people. Would be a huge win not only for WA but hopefully for other states as well with similar FFL restrictions. |
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Posted: 2/8/2024 1:53:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Sounds like a civil rights violation worthy of fed SC review. Sadly it would be "law" until then. The 9th Circus and certainly the WA Supreme Court will screw us. So in 7-10 years when it finally was ruled on the FFL's would all be out of business. |
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Posted: 2/8/2024 11:31:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PACorps: There was a comment from Kirk at WGL that while the other issues are spinning in the courts possibly this one could get faster traction. Now we’re talking about shutting down the livelihoods of tons of people. Would be a huge win not only for WA but hopefully for other states as well with similar FFL restrictions. People they couldn't give a shit about and actively want gone. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/8/2024 11:45:24 PM EDT
[#7]
This bill has been amended, but that doesn't mean much, as it is still pretty fucking egregious.
Worst part is that it is now on the House Floor calendar for a "second reading." Which means it can get a floor vote at just about any time. I don't think the clock is going to run out on this (2/13 @ 5PM). Especially since the Dems have a very warped view of what "consider (pass) a bill by 5:00 PM" actually means..... They'll start debate on this shit at 4:59:59 PM, recess for 2 hours, then pass it at midnight, like all the other infringement bills.... |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 2:33:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scollins: This bill has been amended, but that doesn't mean much, as it is still pretty fucking egregious. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2024 2:55:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boom_Stick: What were the amendments? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boom_Stick: What were the amendments? This is the recap at the end of the “striker” amendment, which is from the bill sponsor, so high likelihood of adoption EFFECT: The amendment modifies the substitute bill as follows. The requirement for dealer employees to be fingerprinted each year is removed. The requirements for dealer employees to undergo fingerprinting and a background check before engaging in the sale or transfer of firearms, and to undergo background checks each year thereafter, are retained. Firearm storage requirements are modified. Outside of business hours, a dealer must secure all firearms (i) on the dealer's business premises in a locked fireproof safe or vault, (ii) in a room or building that meets the physical security requirements established in the bill, or (iii) in a secured and locked area under the dealer's control while the dealer is conducting business at a temporary location. The provision specifying that locked display cases do not satisfy this requirement is removed. Surveillance system requirements are modified. The surveillance system must be capable of recording 24 hours per day. The dealer has the option of continuously recording or using motion sensors to activate recording. Motion-activated recording must remain active for at least 15 seconds after motion ceases to be detected. The minimum time period for recordings to be retained is reduced from six years to two years. The provision requiring dealers to allow agents of the Washington State Patrol access to the dealer's surveillance system when the agent is inspecting the system for compliance is removed. A provision is added exempting dealers with average sales volume of $1,000 or less per month from the portions of the bill requiring annual certification to licensing authorities, and implementation of specified security features, firearm storage practices, surveillance systems, law enforcement response and reporting practices, recordkeeping requirements, and insurance minimums. The bill's effective date is delayed from January 1, 2025, to July 1, 2025. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/9/2024 8:41:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kubota3430: Sadly it would be "law" until then. The 9th Circus and certainly the WA Supreme Court will screw us. So in 7-10 years when it finally was ruled on the FFL's would all be out of business. I know it. We're living in a "lawfare" era of this state government, which is part of why I hold no respect for it. Everything about Olympia - that includes all of its departments - is a disingenuous lie, & a joke of governmental propriety. Even sadder is that it has company across the Union. The nation is dying, & there are numerous symptoms of it, this issue being one. The flagrant, unchecked, politically motivated abuses by AGs across the legal spectrum is another. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:41:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Does this apply to C&R licenses? Always thought about getting one.
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Posted: 2/10/2024 5:30:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Poppaduc: Does this apply to C&R licenses? Always thought about getting one. I’m curious how this will affect manufacturers? 07’s? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2024 8:32:18 PM EDT
[#13]
2/12/2024 @ 16:32 - Being debated on House floor RIGHT NOW, and will be voted on (and certainly passed) in the next 30 minutes
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2024 9:00:08 PM EDT
[#14]
2/12 @ 16:56: Passed the House 57-40.
Our next and final step is to fight this in the Senate. We'll lose there too. Even with the changes (2 years video for interior/POS locations, 45 days exterior), the costs will be astronomical. Plus the fact of putting up a bunch of cameras in/around my HOUSE that the state will have access to. I will quit the FFL business I've had since 2008...... Once the Senate passes it, June 30th, 2025 will be my last day in business. Also means I'll likely accept my last NFA transfer/order later this year on 9/30/2024..... |
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Posted: 2/12/2024 9:27:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Belial]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scollins: 2/12 @ 16:56: Passed the House 57-40. ..... I will quit the FFL business I've had since 2008...... ..... Yes sir, they win and I will take my retirement to a free state. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 12:38:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Fuck, mother fuckers! Question is this all FFLs or FFL dealers only? I am a 07 and wonder if it’s specific or a cross the board?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 1:09:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mstennes: Fuck, mother fuckers! Question is this all FFLs or FFL dealers only? I am a 07 and wonder if it’s specific or a cross the board? Not sure why you think 07 is somehow exempt from these rules. Do you get a state "dealers" license every year? Do you run BGs on sales/transfers? Maybe if you strictly made firearms and only sold them wholesale to other distributors or dealers, and never run a single 4473 ever, you might be exempt. Only 07's I know that do that are the mega manufacturers (Colt, Ruger, S&W, etc.), not the micro ones..... Could be argued that even medium sized MFRs like Aero that sell direct off their website would fall under these new rules.... |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 4:09:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Talked to skagit arms this last friday (one of the counter guys). Asked if the new bill was going to put them out of bidness. From what he said they've got ideas in the works. They were unnaware of the new ammendments so I pointed those out.
I think big FFLs will adapt. My prediction is transfer costs and/or price of guns will go up to offset their costs. The little guys just operating out if their house will def go under. That truly sucks, but theres FFLs in between the big stores and the house guys operating out of their livingroom. My fav mom/pop shop, only hits count, is a bigger operation. They're mom/pop but he has a big shop in the back and does a lot of gunsmithing, cerekote, suppressors, etc.... I'm really worried about them. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 6:23:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boom_Stick: Talked to skagit arms this last friday (one of the counter guys). Asked if the new bill was going to put them out of bidness. From what he said they've got ideas in the works. They were unnaware of the new ammendments so I pointed those out. I think big FFLs will adapt. My prediction is transfer costs and/or price of guns will go up to offset their costs. The little guys just operating out if their house will def go under. That truly sucks, but theres FFLs in between the big stores and the house guys operating out of their livingroom. My fav mom/pop shop, only hits count, is a bigger operation. They're mom/pop but he has a big shop in the back and does a lot of gunsmithing, cerekote, suppressors, etc.... I'm really worried about them. I've dealt with them myself, & was actually thinking about how this would effect their op. This state government is a disgusting afront to our republic. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 10:42:58 AM EDT
[#20]
If this passes, I’m hoping a technology nerd can put together a cost effective package that meets the requirements. The whole state surveillance aspect is ridiculous and wrong though. I’ve been using a small mom and pop FFL for the last five years and they will close shop. Hurting honest American small businesses is pure evil.
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Posted: 2/13/2024 12:31:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boom_Stick]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cspappy: If this passes, I’m hoping a technology nerd can put together a cost effective package that meets the requirements.  
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Posted: 2/13/2024 11:09:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scollins: Not sure why you think 07 is somehow exempt from these rules. Do you get a state "dealers" license every year? Do you run BGs on sales/transfers? Maybe if you strictly made firearms and only sold them wholesale to other distributors or dealers, and never run a single 4473 ever, you might be exempt. Only 07's I know that do that are the mega manufacturers (Colt, Ruger, S&W, etc.), not the micro ones..... Could be argued that even medium sized MFRs like Aero that sell direct off their website would fall under these new rules.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scollins: Originally Posted By mstennes: Fuck, mother fuckers! Question is this all FFLs or FFL dealers only? I am a 07 and wonder if it’s specific or a cross the board? Not sure why you think 07 is somehow exempt from these rules. Do you get a state "dealers" license every year? Do you run BGs on sales/transfers? Maybe if you strictly made firearms and only sold them wholesale to other distributors or dealers, and never run a single 4473 ever, you might be exempt. Only 07's I know that do that are the mega manufacturers (Colt, Ruger, S&W, etc.), not the micro ones..... Could be argued that even medium sized MFRs like Aero that sell direct off their website would fall under these new rules.... I honestly do not know, hence the question. I know I have been ruled exempt to purchase many otherwise non importable parts. A dealer only sells, a manufacturer can make so if you only sold out of state how would the other BS apply? I honestly have not sold but five in state last year most everything is built to order sold out of state. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2024 6:31:23 PM EDT
[#23]
ESHB2118, the "fuck the FFL" bill, is now on the Senate Law & Justice committee agenda for 2/19 @ 10:30 am, along with 1903 (report stolen firearms in 24 hours) and 2021 (destroy seized/forfeited firearms)
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/19/2024 10:16:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Finally got a reply from my Rep, Mari Leavitt.
"Thank you for writing. I appreciate hearing from you. This bill simply ensures proper safeguards to keep inventory accounted for and safe from theft. " I replied: You either have not read the bill, or didn’t understand it if you think it “simply ensures proper safeguards.” Or maybe you just don’t understand how business works. But you would maybe be happy if you could drive almost all of the firearms dealers out of business with very expensive compliance requirements. How does requiring fireproof storage protect the public? It does not, it just adds a very large barrier and cost to storing inventory. The newly-added $1000 per month exemption for small dealers will exclude hardly anyone, leaving the requirement for in home dealers to surveil themselves intact for all but the tiniest dealer (those who sell or transfer only 1 or 2 items a month). This proposal is bad for dealers and bad for consumers (by limiting options and increasing costs) and IS an infringement and impairment on the right to keep and bear arms. Still NO. Rob |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 11:43:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teddydog: Finally got a reply from my Rep, Mari Leavitt. "Thank you for writing. I appreciate hearing from you. This bill simply ensures proper safeguards to keep inventory accounted for and safe from theft. " I replied: You either have not read the bill, or didn’t understand it if you think it “simply ensures proper safeguards.” Or maybe you just don’t understand how business works. But you would maybe be happy if you could drive almost all of the firearms dealers out of business with very expensive compliance requirements. How does requiring fireproof storage protect the public? It does not, it just adds a very large barrier and cost to storing inventory. The newly-added $1000 per month exemption for small dealers will exclude hardly anyone, leaving the requirement for in home dealers to surveil themselves intact for all but the tiniest dealer (those who sell or transfer only 1 or 2 items a month). This proposal is bad for dealers and bad for consumers (by limiting options and increasing costs) and IS an infringement and impairment on the right to keep and bear arms. Still NO. Rob She smiled when she read your reply |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 11:04:31 AM EDT
[#26]
If I thought there was any chance of changing her mind/vote, I would have replied differently.
Rob |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 8:14:41 PM EDT
[#27]
ESHB2118 was in "executive session" for the Law & Justice committee. A lot of amendments were proposed, none of which were adopted.
It passed out of committee with a "Do Pass" recommendation, no surprise there from the "Rubber Stamp the Stomping of Rights" Democrat party.... 
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Posted: 2/21/2024 5:10:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Most people don’t have a clue that this is happening. I’ve said it before but it blows me away how many firearm owners never have heard of this stuff till way after it’s in effect and definitely don’t know the implications. Heck, I wouldn’t probably know if I wasn’t on this site.
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 5:17:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PredatorWhacker: Most people don’t have a clue that this is happening. I’ve said it before but it blows me away how many firearm owners never have heard of this stuff till way after it’s in effect and definitely don’t know the implications. Heck, I wouldn’t probably know if I wasn’t on this site. This is exactly how .gov works. Public ignorance is what they're counting on. Why do you think they pass bills after midnight? |
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Posted: 2/21/2024 5:48:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: This is exactly how .gov works. Public ignorance is what they're counting on. Why do you think they cast votes after midnight? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker: Most people don’t have a clue that this is happening. I’ve said it before but it blows me away how many firearm owners never have heard of this stuff till way after it’s in effect and definitely don’t know the implications. Heck, I wouldn’t probably know if I wasn’t on this site. This is exactly how .gov works. Public ignorance is what they're counting on. Why do you think they cast votes after midnight? True for sure. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:47:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: This is exactly how .gov works. Public ignorance is what they're counting on. Why do you think they pass bills after midnight? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker: Most people don’t have a clue that this is happening. I’ve said it before but it blows me away how many firearm owners never have heard of this stuff till way after it’s in effect and definitely don’t know the implications. Heck, I wouldn’t probably know if I wasn’t on this site. This is exactly how .gov works. Public ignorance is what they're counting on. Why do you think they pass bills after midnight? Based on the reply one member here got from his rep, even they don't have a clue about the reality of what they are voting on. What was it they said, "it just ensures FFLs secure their inventory against theft"? Oh, it really puts a vast majority of FFLs out of business due to the extreme cost burden of compliance? Oh well.... |
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USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 2:15:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Do you really think the legislators in Olympia care what the people think? They could give a fuck
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Posted: 2/21/2024 3:42:26 PM EDT
[#33]
I really wanna see a comet hit Olympia.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 6:37:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scollins: Based on the reply one member here got from his rep, even they don't have a clue about the reality of what they are voting on. What was it they said, "it just ensures FFLs secure their inventory against theft"? Oh, it really puts a vast majority of FFLs out of business due to the extreme cost burden of compliance? Oh well.... They just vote on what the preamble of the bill says what it will do, as far as I can tell. Like back in the day with Obamacare when Pelosi said "we have to pass it to see what's in it" Forget actually reading the full text of the bill. Just pass it and leave that up to the agencies that are going to enforce it. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2024 12:21:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Cops66 pretty much sums up this session and the future sessions.
I remember the days we would have rally's on the capital steps and we would have at best 200 to 300 folks show up. Should have been thousands like Virginia. Now with all mail in voting this state will be hard to turn around. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2024 12:00:44 AM EDT
[#36]
I wrote my state reps expressing my concerns about this bill; they wanted to know if I wanted to testify, and told me their pronouns. Here’s the reply::
Thank you very much for engaging in the civic process and contacting Senator Dhingra with your thoughts on House Bill 2118. If you would like to testify on this bill, I will link it here. https://app.leg.wa.gov/csi/Senate?cId=17548&d=02/19/24%2010:30%20AM&aId=159441 Please know that I do brief the Senator on all matters that her constituents reach out about, and I will pass on your feedback to the Senator. Please do not hesitate to reach out should you have any additional questions or concerns. Sincerely, Amit Bali Intern to Senator Manka Dhingra 45th Legislative District | Washington State Senate Office (360) 786-7672 239 Cherberg Building | Olympia, WA 98504 Pronouns: He/Him |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 5:28:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cinghiale99: I wrote my state reps expressing my concerns about this bill; they wanted to know if I wanted to testify, and told me their pronouns. Here’s the reply:: Thank you very much for engaging in the civic process and contacting Senator Dhingra with your thoughts on House Bill 2118. If you would like to testify on this bill, I will link it here. https://app.leg.wa.gov/csi/Senate?cId=17548&d=02/19/24%2010:30%20AM&aId=159441 Please know that I do brief the Senator on all matters that her constituents reach out about, and I will pass on your feedback to the Senator. Please do not hesitate to reach out should you have any additional questions or concerns. Sincerely, Amit Bali Intern to Senator Manka Dhingra 45th Legislative District | Washington State Senate Office (360) 786-7672 239 Cherberg Building | Olympia, WA 98504 Pronouns: He/Him No surprise but unreal all the same. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2024 1:17:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cinghiale99: I wrote my state reps expressing my concerns about this bill; they wanted to know if I wanted to testify, and told me their pronouns. Here’s the reply:: Thank you very much for engaging in the civic process and contacting Senator Dhingra with your thoughts on House Bill 2118. If you would like to testify on this bill, I will link it here. https://app.leg.wa.gov/csi/Senate?cId=17548&d=02/19/24%2010:30%20AM&aId=159441 Please know that I do brief the Senator on all matters that her constituents reach out about, and I will pass on your feedback to the Senator. Please do not hesitate to reach out should you have any additional questions or concerns. Sincerely, Amit Bali Intern to Senator Manka Dhingra 45th Legislative District | Washington State Senate Office (360) 786-7672 239 Cherberg Building | Olympia, WA 98504 Pronouns: He/Him You’re in Dhingra’s district? It’s always admirable to contact our reps but talk about pissing into the wind (and I’m guilty of it as well). She sees a whiff of ‘gun control’ on any bill and it gets her ‘yes’ vote with nary a thought towards the ramifications. Would she read the full text? Doubtful - much less would she have a sudden crisis of conscience if it puts people out of business. You’re possibly looking at our next AG, who will likely be to FBF as FBF is to FJI if he becomes governor. |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 3:10:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Even the Seattle Times editorial board thinks this bill is "unfair to dealers":
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/two-wa-gun-bills-are-spot-on-but-a-third-is-unfair-to-dealers/ (Left cold on purpose) |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 3:23:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cinghiale99: I wrote my state reps expressing my concerns about this bill; they wanted to know if I wanted to testify, and told me their pronouns. Here’s the reply:: Thank you very much for engaging in the civic process and contacting Senator Dhingra with your thoughts on House Bill 2118. If you would like to testify on this bill, I will link it here. https://app.leg.wa.gov/csi/Senate?cId=17548&d=02/19/24%2010:30%20AM&aId=159441 Please know that I do brief the Senator on all matters that her constituents reach out about, and I will pass on your feedback to the Senator. Please do not hesitate to reach out should you have any additional questions or concerns. Sincerely, Amit Bali Intern to Senator Manka Dhingra 45th Legislative District | Washington State Senate Office (360) 786-7672 239 Cherberg Building | Olympia, WA 98504 Pronouns: He/Him The funniest and most predictable part was seeing Dhingra's intern is Indian. Expect any higher office she takes to be mysteriously staffed with mostly Indians in the typical H1B tech manager style |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 5:50:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Terrato: Even the Seattle Times editorial board thinks this bill is "unfair to dealers": https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/two-wa-gun-bills-are-spot-on-but-a-third-is-unfair-to-dealers/ (Left cold on purpose) |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 1:24:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Terrato: Even the Seattle Times editorial board thinks this bill is "unfair to dealers": https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/two-wa-gun-bills-are-spot-on-but-a-third-is-unfair-to-dealers/ (Left cold on purpose) This is a stunning turn around, they hate the 2nd and all guns, but they see this is really bad. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2024 6:52:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kubota3430: This is a stunning turn around, they hate the 2nd and all guns, but they see this is really bad. Ultimately, it will pass, I have no doubt. If enough FFLs can summon a class action suit, maybe it can get overturned. There should be enough evidence of harm via businesses going under or undue financial hardship. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 11:35:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Quietly signed into law by inslee, just another chipping away of our rights.
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