I just went to the WA Legislative page and "Opposed" SHB 2118 as well as typed an email explaining why I oppose. My reps and senator are all anti gun but I had to do this. Here's the link:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=2118&Year=2023&Initiative=false

I realize their goal is to put FFLs out of business but stuff like this makes me angry and I rarely get angry...

What is the bad part of the bill? Reading through it seems to require only basic security precautions that most people should have at home let along a gun store. Is it the 1,000,000 insurance policy? I don't know if that amount would be considered low, normal or absurd.

https://mynorthwest.com/3947382/rantz-democrats-try-bankrupt-gun-shops-insurmountable-fees/


Maybe the legaleeze confused you. He’s a good breakdown of the requirements.

One of the things that hit me was the requirement for a “fire” rated vault for overnight storage. Think about it for a second. Why would politicians that have voted for every other anti gun bill in the last 7 years all of a sudden care about the welfare of your baby killing machines so much that they need to be protected against fire? Gee, I don’t know, maybe because it’s SO FUCKING EXPENSIVE!!!

Or how about 24 hour video and audio that needs to be stored for 6 fucking years. Yeah, that storage is no big deal, I’ll just get 6 Ring fucking doorbells. That’ll do it!!!

I need to shut up now or I’ll go the way of the SYLVAN.

ETA- I found this article on the Bongino Report. That means it’s made National news and if you’re familiar with Jason Rantz, he’s a well known conservative journalist on the wet side. I’m East of Cascades and even I have heard of the guy.

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Are you kidding?  All of it is shit.  I take it you'd be OK if they FORCED these requirements on you as a gun owner?  

And they aren't requiring "basic" security precautions, but things that are far beyond what would be basic.  The goal is to increase costs so much that it forces out the vast, possibly all, FFLs in the state.  You think a home-based FFL could comply with even 25% of their requirements?  

How about this one: 6 years of 24/7/365 audio and video recording to be maintained, viewable to LE and the WSP ANY TIME they want, for any reason, and stored in such a way to not be edited, lost or stolen.  And enough cameras to cover every square inch inside and out, with enough resolution to identify people.  You're talking about storing thousands of Terabytes of data.

There is an 18 camera Lorex system at Costco, which might not even be enough cameras to capture a small shop, but let's say it is.  It's $5,700 with sales tax.  That's going to be the cheapest part of the system.  It's a 4k system at 30 FPS, so more than the bare minimum required by the state.  Using Lorex's website, it says that 3 months of video from 18 cameras would take up 600TB.  To cover 6 years of video, you need the capacity to store 14,400 TB of video.  To meet the requirements of "backing up" that data (in the bill), you now need 28,800 TB of capacity.

The Costco camera system comes with 8TB, but expandable to 32TB.  Not even lose to enough to cover the data needs.  A 30TB hard drive (the largest "consumer" size available) is $700.  So you need 1,000 of these 30TB drives to have 6 years of recordings available, and backed up.  $700,000 just in hard drives to store the data.  Not to mention the rack that is going to needed to house 1,000 hard drives, nor the space for such an endeavor, nor the electricity and likely, cooling, required.

Clearly this is not a workable solution, so now you are looking at an enterprise level solution, which means contracting with a company to handle it all.  Azure says it costs about $0.15/GB per month for Premium storage.  How much is 200TB per month going to cost at $0.15/GB?  $30,000/month.  And that doesn't include Operations and Data Transfer costs.  Maybe we can get away with the "Hot" tier, which is $0.0166/gb, or $3,320/month plus Data Transfer.  

Plus the bandwidth to transfer 200TB/month to a cloud service.

We're talking 7 figures to comply with this bill, PER FFL.....

We should probably save our breath. People like this are either Progressive/ANTIFA types or milqtoast FUDS that come into our shops bitching about new laws and never contact their reps or donate to the SAF.

What they don’t get is that the new SAFE system will not allow them to purchase out of state because out of state FFLS have no reason to contract with WA to be able to able to pay the $18.00 for a WA state resident background check. Therefore, put the FFLs in WA state out of business and all of a sudden you can’t buy a damn gun in WA state.

Congrats FUDS, your inaction just required you to move to be able to practice your 2nd amendment rights.

Thanks, missed the 6yr requirement which is obviously excessive and probably out of the reach of even the big guys like cabelas, bass pro, sportsman's etc.

I am constantly blown away

Over on the Waguns subreddits there are few guys like this who are actually asking for more "reasonable" restrictions. I would say they are plants except that they have verifiable post history and content.

One of them is actively trying to wrest control of the mod position because he believes the subreddit has become "too extreme"

Maybe I am retarded, but what is a subreddit? I do participate to a degree on Waguns, but the stuff you're talking about is outside my wheelhouse.

On Reddit the various discussion groups are broken down into "subreddits" each being a category of discussion on a specific topic

As an example the two main Waguns subreddits - these offer a lot of pretty good news and discussion about WA 2A issues once you filter through the bullshit posts and occasional "pro-2A socialist" users

https://www.reddit.com/r/WAGuns/

https://www.reddit.com/r/WA_guns/

The waguns subreddits are completely different than waguns.org

This is pure bullshit and without any question is meant to force the closing of most every FFL dealer in this state to violate your 2A rights through massive regulations. I would say that this needs to be presented to the US Supreme, since the local federal courts AND the 9th Circuit Court… Out of California, will say this is legal, even when the purpose is clearly seen as an act to make it impossible to legally own or sell/transfer a firearm in WA.

But fuck, we were slammed with a magazine ban and a modern sporting rifle ban that is stuck in a serious spin cycle till who knows when, within the court system. So, if this is passed, I’m hoping that this is fast track since it will negatively affect all the FFL businesses/owners/employees throughout the state since many people will loose their livelihoods, which will cause severe harm and lost income. I’m sure that even the Big Box sporting goods businesses will either remove their firearm sales or just shutdown and cut their losses, while running like Hell out of this dumpster fire of a state.

Funny, all the liberals will vote for this crazy shit and when the shit hits the fan again, which it will, they will be crying that THEY cannot buy a gun anywhere in the state… So fuck them for being stupid.

Can't fix stupid...

Sure, though at one point several of the waguns mods were active there and you will find users from that site there as well

Yes, let’s keep up with bullshit while Washington as a state keeps going down the drain, this is a follow up to my last post of how good Jay Bob is doing,

#51 in police officers per capita behind all states and D.C. (WASPC Report)
Homicide is up 96% since 2019, culminating in a new state record (WASPC)
#1 state most impacted by retail theft (Forbes)
#2 for property crime (Statista)
The amount of fentanyl seized by the federal DEA has increased by 1670% since 2019 (DEA)
#1 largest increase in drug overdose deaths over the past year (CDC Data)
#4 highest combined sales tax rate in the country (Tax Foundation)
#3 highest gas prices in the nation (Forbes)
#4 most expensive state to buy a home (Forbes)
60% of students are failing math and 50% are failing reading (OSPI)
#25 for overall public school system (WalletHub)
63% of children under age five do not have access to a nearby childcare provider, which reduces the state workforce by 133,000 (Commerce Report)
70% of critical salmon species are not meeting recovery goals or are “in crisis”(Salmon Recovery Office Report)
Nearly 50% of Washington’s freshwater and 20% of its marine water is polluted (Ecology)
2.7 million acres of unhealthy forest (DNR)

Also look at the security level.. it will hurt the pockets at the quality level they want. Also the data storage will be massive. Everyone going in will be recorded. This also includes privacy of a home dealer's home. They will have no privacy doing personal stuff. Cost will be high.. cost will be passed to the buyers. With the very little crap that's left that we can buy.. they will put FFL's out of business.

That is the whole plan behind this bill.

It exists for no other reason.

Thank you mancat and scottr for explaining the WaGuns subreddit. I’m on WaGuns and didn’t know the subreddit stuff existed. The FFL I use works out of his house and this bill would seriously impact him and others like him. He’s a great guy, a decent gentleman, and this attack on a small American business is pure nonsense and malicious. This bill does nothing to make the people of Washington safer (all anti 2nd Amendment bills do nothing to make society safer - they deflect the responsibility of the human who committed the crime and blame the inanimate object).

This is exactly where I fall. I planned on actually getting a small storefront when I retire and now I’m wondering if it’s even worth it thanks to the dumb shits in Olympia.

Tonight's the vote. Likely it will be after 8pm where they like to screw us in the evening.

Contact your senate reps..

[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];T'[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];[email protected];

Seriously? Why waste the time. If every person in the state would call and be against it, would still pass.

Likely true but you never stop the fight.

That’s true

fight over, and lost.  28-21 in the Senate.  They did adopt an amendment, changing the recording retention to 90 days for firearms/POS, and 45 days for everything else. The rest of the requirements are still there, so for small guys like me, not worth the squeeze.  I guess I'll just have to manage the business to $12,000/year to stay under the limit.  That barely seems worth it....

So anyone with less than $1k a month income is exempt from all the new regs?

Then what they've done is discouraged those who make a living off this, to creating a bigger number of hobbiest FFLs? Sounds like they've created a larger cottage industry

$1,000/month in sales, not income. With average gross margins of 10%-20%, looking at $100-$200 in income before expenses. That’s if you are trying to sell stuff, vs providing transfer services.

So,I could sell one handgun for $1,000, make about $100 before expenses and then be “done” for the month. Or do 23 transfers and have gross profit  $966 for the month before expenses.

This will take years to wind through the courts and we know the WA Supremes will just rubber stamp it.

Maybe every single FFL in WA closes up shop stating this law as the reason.  They file a lawsuit, yes years to settle. But then no handguns for anybody but .mil.  The PD would not be able to buy handguns, they cannot transfer the handguns from the manufacturer without a state FFL can they?

It would sure suck big time but maybe going nuclear is an option.

If i am on the jury every FFL would be awarded a minimum of $1,000,0000

Another phase of The Plan completed: cut off most of the supply.

Next, no doubt they’ll table new ways to go after existing ownership.

The cow that put up legislation that didnt make ot this year has already said she'll bring it back next year.

I saw it is headed to Dimlee's desk, and surely will be signed.

Was there any doubt?

Not yet...  The Senate added an amendment, so it has to go back to the House for concurrence.

0.0000001% the bill dies.  

Hahaha.. right

What was the change?

A quick look at the bills indicates it was amended to change the 2 year recording storage requirement to 90 days.

correct.

The House just voted to adopt the version as passed by the Senate, so it's official now: 90 Days of video storage.

Of course, the rest of the onerous requirements remain.  So while it is a "victory" to talk them down from 6 years to 90 days, it's like negotiating with the cannibals on how much salt they are allowed to pour in the pot before cooking and eating you.....

That's not any kind of fix. Not even. Good shops will be pushed OOB while the challenges wade through the just-us system. Mission accomplished.