This is where we will provide the latest updates for the MEAN Bearing Delay Upper Receiver Assembly.

EDIT: The upper is now available for purchase because our manufacturing capacity is improving and more units are shipping.

Earlier this morning (February 2, 2023), our reservation system went live on our website.  People can purchase a reservation for the initial manufacturing run for $50. This is fully refundable and allows us to gauge both overall interest and barrel length preference (more information on that below).



This product has been a long time coming and we know that there has been some hype in the past and that people have been disappointed that it has taken so long.  This system is our take on modernizing and improving roller delay systems.  After years of fielding service calls and helping customers get 9mm ARs running with Endomags we did not feel that blowback 9mm systems were safe enough.  So we wanted a safer system, and we wanted to maintain all of the advantages of a roller delay (durability, reliability, low recoil) and eliminate or at least mitigate the disadvantages while also maximizing compatibility with the AR platform.  In our view, traditional roller delay was too heavy, too expensive, and too German (complicated).  We also believe that past attempts to incorporate roller delay into the AR world were too literal.
Trying to put MP5 rollers (square peg) into the AR platform (round hole).  We actually started out with cylindrical rollers, which is what we showed at SHOT in 2020.  In some ways this system was incredible and our prototypes ran really well.  However, we ultimately decided that this system raised some manufacturing issues.

So we did a Crazy Ivan and began anew.  We replaced the 2 cylindrical rollers of the old roller delay systems with 3 ball bearings.  Each of our ball bearings has the same contact surface area as the original MP5 roller.  So with our 3 bearings, we have 50% more contact surface area than a traditional roller delay.  Our barrel extension includes 3 machined pockets that correspond to the 3 ball bearings.  Because our barrel extension is simply threaded onto the barrel, it can be removed/replaced unlike the old MP5 part that is pressed into the sheet metal receiver.  The system is designed to work with a standard AR-15 5.56 buffer (carbine, H, H2, etc.) - no 9mm-specific buffer needed.
The system works in a standard AR-15 milspec upper receiver.  Our test mules used standard off-the-shelf uppers (with forward assist) but the production models are billet slick-side uppers (more info below).  The system is compatible with standard AR charging handles and handguards.

For the lower receiver, because of the Endomag, we started out with milspec AR-15 lowers (and this is how most of our testing was conducted, including full auto).  The system is also compatible with dedicated pistol magazine lower receivers.  The only caveat is that most of these receivers include a stationary ejector in the lower - this ejector will need to be removed for the Bearing Delay Upper.

We're selling the Bearing Delay Upper Receiver as a complete upper receiver system ready to be paired with the AR lower receiver of your choice.  5 different barrel lengths: 4.5", 7.5", 11", 14.5", 16" - all threaded for a 1/2-28 muzzle device.  There will be an option to have the muzzle device for the 14.5" barrel permanently attached.

The heart of the Bearing Delay Upper Receiver is the unique ball bearing bolt carrier group.  The ball bearings interface with corresponding features in the barrel extension and provide the lockup in battery and the delay after firing.  The system can be tuned by replacing the Lifter to change the angle of the surfaces that push the bearings from the inside of the BCG.  The bolt face includes our unique center ejector to provide the most consistent ejection of any 9mm AR on the market.  The firing pin passes through the ejector.



The ability to tune the system by swapping the Lifter means that the Bearing Delay system can be tuned based on ammunition type, barrel length, suppressor, or any other factor.  Each Bearing Delay Upper Receiver includes 2 Lifters - one in the BCG and a second in the box for tuning. Other Lifters will be available for purchase from MEAN.

Each Bearing Delay Upper Receiver includes 2 Endomags.  We make 2 different Endomags: (1) the original Endomag includes an ejector and is compatible with most blowback 9mm systems and (2) ejectorless Endomag, which works with this system and with CMMG's radial delay 9mm system.

MA Upper Receiver
The Bearing Delay Upper Receiver includes a slick side billet machined aluminum upper receiver that adheres to milspec standards. No forward assist.


MA Handguard
The new MA Handguard is a free float hybrid design including a very rigid high temperature and high strength polymer body with a metallic insert that is overmolded (permanently attached) within the handguard and threads onto the specially designed barrel nut.

Internal width (flat to flat): ~1.375"
Available in 5 lengths based on the barrel configurations of our Bearing Delay Upper Receiver.


MA Charging Handle
The MA Charging Handle is a new ambidextrous design incorporating both steel and aluminum machined components.


MA Muzzle Device
The new MA Muzzle Device reduces recoil and muzzle flash.  Comes with a left-hand threaded jam nut which eliminates the need for a crush washer.  Note: those selecting a 14.5" barrel upper will have the option to select whether the muzzle device should be permanently attached or not.


MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

I put my deposit down for a 7.5 inch barrel.  

After these are shipped (no hurry), and if issues are discovered, would be awesome if the early adopters would be covered for whatever upgrades you make.

People usually do not buy version 1 of a product for this reason.  

I do, but I’ve been taken care of and burned in the past.  Still throwing it out there.

+1
Tommy at MEAN stressed to me that they have a lifetime warranty which I think he was eluding to taking care of any issues.  
I know support has been great on the Endomags.

I jumped in on the initial launch of your 9mm magazine conversion kits and felt like that was well done, I wouldn't be checking in on this thread if that hadn't been the case. To those who are considering jumping in but aren't sure if MEAN will leave you hanging or take care of you, from my experience, I beleive MEAN will do right by you.

My questions for @MEAN_Arms

1) What advantages are there to this product over the CMMG Radial Delay Blowback uppers that can be had for under $1,000 and are a proven all metal design?
Cold link to CMMG's offering https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1024819371/

2) Is the charging handle available on it's own? If so, is it compatible with a standard AR15 upper?

Thanks

Any plans to sell a barrel/bolt kit? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for placing your reservation.  As others stated above, the Bearing Delay Upper is covered by our Lifetime Warranty (original owner or not) so we will always fix (or if necessary replace) the product.  We pride ourselves on great customer service and always taking care of our customers.

MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

Thanks man!



(1) The biggest advantage that Bearing Delay has over radial delay is that our system is tunable/adjustable to modify the dwell time for ammo, barrel length, suppressor, etc.  Swapping out a single internal BCG component makes our system easy to tune.  Also, we think our system favorably compares to anyone when considering durability and perceived recoil.

(2) The MA Charging Handle is compatible with any milspec AR-15 and will be available separately soon.  No eta yet.

MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

For tuning purposes, what would the recommended steps be?

Tune via different carrier lifter or start with increasing buffer mass first? I'm assuming lifter first before fine tuning with buffer.

@MEAN_Arms

A few questions about the MA Handguard

1) Can you explain how your system manages concerns about anti-rotation?....On Edit, found a better photo that answers this:


2) Do you recommend your handguard for use with a recessed suppressor setup? Think 10.5" barrel with a 6" suppressor attached and a 14" or 15" long handguard over the assembly.

3) With the above in mind, if your answer is yes you can do that, do have any info you can share on how repeated extended strings of fire impact the polymer/handugard? Any melt down concerns?

4) Would you be willing to chop a few with a chop saw and take some photos of where the metal is encapsulated?...or maybe share a photo of the internal metal structure before the overmold process occurs?

5) Since you have the high speed video of the bolt in the upper...Do you happen to have some slow-motion film of your MA Handguard that you can share and perhaps a comparable few metal handguards videos as well? I'd like to see how much whip/deflection it experiences under fire compared you a metal assembly.

6) Those look like Mlok slots on the handguards, can you confirm? Any testing of attachment point durability compared to metal examples?

7) Will the upper receiver you are using for this assembly work with a standard AR15 upper receiver rail system if an end user wants to depart for the overmold handguard? I see that it's a custom cut billiet upper receiver so that comes with some obvious clearance limitations but is there more to be aware of than that?

On this question:


I'm also interested in this option because if your upper receiver sticks to the milspec standard as described, I've already got a few bare upper receivers and handguards on the shelf. Those billet upper receivers look slick and the handguards are intriguing, but both would appear to contribute to creating that price tag that's nearly twice what the CMMG uppers cost. I certianly don't blame you for making the first product release a turn key product, but if you have plans to do a barrel BCG kit after the initial release, I'd probably be more interested in that.

I've been running the CMMG RDB in full auto since they first came out.  Out of the box they are not that smooth shooting.  However, with some tuning they can be very smooth:
https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=280
But they are plagued with ejector spring failures.  Typically around 1k rounds.
https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=221
I had to get a custom fixed ejector made to fix the failures.

ID is only 1.375".  Most 9mm cans are that OD so it would be rubbing unless you really want to go with a skinny 9mm can?
I too wanted to go with just a BCG/BBL but will get a complete upper if that is the only way for now.  I actually want to do a real ported barrel and integral setup.  If the upper runs well, I hope to get a BCG/BBL combo if/when they offer it.

Thanks for your interest and posting in here!

The Bearing Delay system has three major proprietary systems: the barrel, the BCG, and the barrel extension.  Everything else is standard milspec AR stuff.  With that said, for multiple reasons (manufacturing, customer service, etc.) we are initially only selling complete upper receiver assemblies.  This is the plan for the foreseeable future.  We may offer barrel/BCG/barrel extension kits in the future, but there is no definite plan for that at this point.  For more specific info/questions, feel free to contact our support department ([email protected] or 404-889-8960).


MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

Signed up. Can't wait!!

The tuning process will always depend on the user's setup and ammo.  Every Bearing Delay Upper Receiver Assembly will come with 2 Lifters and is designed to work with a standard AR-15 buffer (carbine, H, H2).



The Lifter that comes installed in the BCG will be a swiss army knife designed to work with 90% of the off-the-shelf ammo on the market (i.e., most 115 gr to 147 gr).  There will be a second Lifter included that will be optimized to run with subsonic ammo.  MEAN will be careful about recommending the second Lifter because, if used with hotter ammo (+P, +P+, etc), the system may cycle faster than preferred.  When we get closer to shipping the first units, MEAN will release more information about additional Lifter availability.  What we can say now is that there will be additional Lifters available separately that will bridge the gap between the swiss army knife OEM Lifter and the second subsonic Lifter.

We expect to have some customers that never swap the Lifter and shoot the OEM option forever.  We also expect some folks will want to tinker and swap Lifters after almost every round.

Different Lifters will allow the user to slow down or speed up the cycle time for the firearm - almost like changing a cam in an engine.  Slowing down the cycle time will also reduce the perceived recoil, but eventually slowing the system down too much will cause cycling problems (i.e., not enough energy to push the BCG back and pick up the next round).  Adding buffer weight can also slow down cycle time.  From a customer service perspective, MEAN will be careful about making sure that users who are already cycling fast do not start reducing buffer weight.

So, to make a long answer even longer, our support department would want to discuss your setup with you before providing specific recommendations.  Swapping a Lifter is the best way to affect dwell time of the system because it allows the user to directly mechanically affect the operation/delay after firing.  But, we also recognize that many users will already have the ability to tweak buffer weight, and this can be an effective variable for tuning the system as well.


MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

Thanks for being so interested in the MA Handguard.  We are very excited about this product and its potential to truly change the trajectory of AR handguards once more people get hands on.  Right now, we're focused on producing them for the Bearing Delay Uppers but we definitely want to expand beyond that in the future.

Here are out thoughts on your list.

1: You already found it.

2: As @amphibian said the internal dimension/width of the MA Handguard is 1.375" so many suppressors would not fit.  However, we did run a setup like this at SHOT Range Day with a Surefire RYDER 9TI (about 1.25" OD).  It was our 4.5" barrel and we used the handguard we usually put on our 11" barrel upper (see below).  No issues with heat.  No one even needed a glove because polymer doesn't absorb heat like aluminum does (see #3 below).



3: The polymer material we chose for the handguard is not common and is specifically designed for high temperature and high strength.  It is not common because it is expensive and difficult to manufacture.  However, keep in mind that the people that started MEAN have been in the injection molding industry for 50+ years.  We don't have any reservations about using the handuard with any PCC system (full auto, suppressed, anything).  Someone took a thermal video of Eric (IV8888) in October 2022 shooting the Bearing Delay full auto at his range day with a prototype of the handguard.  That gun had been running virtually all day with lots of full auto.  As you can see below, he is holding the handguard with his bare hands.  The barrel is very hot in the video but the handguard is cooler than the magazine.  Polymer is an insulator and doesn't absorb heat like aluminum does.



4: There isn't much to see with the insert.  It is a metal ring that is overmolded on the inside of the handguard.  Its location corresponds to the series of recesses/depressions propagating around the perimeter of the handguard just forward of the "N" in the MEAN logo.



5: We don't have any relevant data but we believe this polymer handguard flexes less than a comparable aluminum one.  As far as strength goes, we are also confident in that characteristic.  We ran over an early prototype of the handguard (before there was an internal metal insert) with a Tacoma - no problems.

6: Yes, they are M-LOK.  There are some accessories attached to the second firearm below (and another view of the Surefire suppressor).  We don't have any hesitation in honoring the Lifetime Warranty for the handguard and its strength.



7: The Bearing Delay system is compatible with normal milspec uppers and any AR handguard.  Our test mules used standard milspec stripped uppers.


MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

That seems counter intuitive.  I would think for optimized subsonic ammo, you would be delaying the bolt longer which would decrease the cyclic rate.
I shoot about 99% 147GR loaded hot.  
With my CMMG RDB, the recommended buffer / spring combination (standard power spring and standard carbine buffer) was very fast like around 900 RPM.
With my preferred buffer tube, buffer and spring combination, I am getting in 600's RPM which is what I want.  I am also using a .40SW bolt to run 9mm in my CMMG RDB setup which delays the bolt longer and also drops the cyclic rate down some.  
I was thinking your different lifters would do the same thing.
Looking at most of the full auto vids on Facebook of the MEAN Arms bearing delay they look really fast at the IraqVet8888 shoot.  
I was thinking that I would hopefully tune it the way I want it.
Then I saw the video below from SHOT:
https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/messages_0.mp4
That has a much nicer cyclic rate than all the videos I've seen from the IraqVet8888 shoot.
What lifter was used in the video above?  Also what ammo, spring and buffer were used in that Shot range day video?

During Shot Show range day, Lifters were swapped to demonstrate how recoil and cycle can be affected by changing the Lifter using the same ammo. The buffer and spring were both standard AR components. The Bearing Delay upper receiver allows for an overall lighter firearm and can be adjusted to a wide range of RPMs with the appropriate Lifter, spring, and buffer weight.


MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

So do you know what ammo, buffer and spring was used in that full auto lower in the video I posted above?

Great to talk to @amphibian on the phone yesterday.  Just realized we forgot to post these answers here.  Because we bought in bulk for SHOT Range Day, it was a basic 115g ball nose target ammo (don't even remember the brand at this point).  The buffer and spring were just plain off-the-shelf AR-15 parts.  We used both H2 and carbine buffers that day.  We believe that video was recorded with an H2 buffer.

MEAN Arms
https://www.meanarms.com/
[email protected]

If your handguard is a good heat insulator and your system delay can be tuned well for suppressed use…

I think you are missing out by not making a larger diameter handguard SD configuration.

Thanks for this.  The current handguard design has an internal dimension of about 1.375" which does work with the Surefire RYDER 9TI (see a few posts above).  We do realize that many suppressors are too large for this.

What do you think would be a good size?  1.75"?

The Dead Air Wolfman is 1.618"

The Rugged Obsidian9 and CGS Mod 9 are both 1.37″

- are there others that we should look at for a standard-ish size for 9mm PCC suppressors?

Midwest is doing 1.67 ID for their suppressor rail:
https://midwestindustriesinc.com/mi-sp-series-suppressor-compatible-one-piece-free-float-handguard-m-lok-tm/

There are a lot of longish 1.37” 9mm pistol suppressors out there, I think that would be the minimum to fit.

There are a few 1.50” to 1.5X” multi caliber options.

I doubt many buy a Wolfman or other really extra large diameter suppressors with plans to put it into a handguard.

Then there is the MP5-SD size, but they all need a dedicated ported barrel. I think a modern version made for a standard barrel and 147gr would be great. But nobody makes that suppressor because there isn’t a PCC for it, and nobody makes a PCC for it because there isn’t a suppressor for it.

I guess there isn’t really a definitive answer.

Minimum internal diameter should be ~1.5, so you get a little gap on the 1.375 cans. Trident 9, octane 9, octane 45 would one of the ones I'd probably put on there. At 1.375 I'd be worried about it not quite fitting on some cans.  1.67 gets you into the thicker cans like Yhm r9, the omega 9k.

My current plan is octane 45 to keep the gas down a little on full auto, and I just hope I can get a longer rail with a 4.5" barrel. When my turn comes up and that it fits without rubbing. It'll be tri-lugged before it even gets put on a lower.

And if I am dreaming big after me $50 deposit, offer a carrier cut for lightning link and/sell me a spare carrier!

Will this system work with Colt pattern or Glock mags?

I had a bad experience with the mean endomag, and like the idea of being able to use mags that have work with the other 9mm uppers I have.

Edit:  An 11" barrel setup would be what I would want (same OAL as a 10.5 5.56 when assembled)

They already posted that it would in the first post.  Just that you will have to remove the fixed ejector from the lower.  
You can also see in the picture from range day what appears to be a CMMG Banshee Glock lower with a GSL Phoenix mounted.

I would think the feed geometry would be similar to the gas operated AR (same as a CMMG RDB) so the mag needs to feed lower than straight blowback but some lowers work with both with no mag height adjustments.  
I had to lower the feed height to run Colt mags in my CMMG RDB:
https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=374

I would think that my configuration would work fine with the MEAN upper after doing my mods in the link above.

For Glock mags, I have a friend running a cheap straight blowback PSA Glock lower that works in full auto with his CMMG RDB and he made zero mods.  Seems hit or miss with the Glock lowers.
I presume you were using the Endomags with the built in ejector?  

I'm hoping to make sure everything runs good then I'll probably want to turn the barrel down to be like below that was done for some UZI barrels I sold a long time ago.




Then I want the 3 lug tucked under the rail like below so when running unsuppressed, the muzzle just barely sticks out.


If the system works well, I'll probably buy another one for a true SD setup and go with a ported barrel.

Thanks Amphibian.  I saw the comment about removing the ejector, but didn't take that as meaning it could use the other mags.  Guess I should work on my reading comprehension.




Yes.  I tried the mean insert in two different pmag bodies, and tried a RRA and LMT lower, using two different Colt uppers.  First round would feed fine, the second round always failed to feed.  At this point, I already have a bunch of Colt pattern and Glock mags that just work, it wasn't worth it to me to try and figure out why the endomag wasnt.  I love the idea of it, but at this point it would not make sense for me to adopt that pattern.  Still I really like that Mean developed that idea, and that they are developing this idea, and am interested in buying a barrel and bolt in the future.

I rarely hear complaints about the CMMG RDB Endomag variant.  Only the one for straight blowbacks.  On that note, this upper comes with two of the ejector-less (previously CMMG RDB only variant) Endomags, so maybe see if they can swap your two Endomags for two more of the ejector-less variants so you will have 4 of them when you get your upper.  (assuming you ordered one).

Excited to see this released!

You should definitely consider a larger diameter handguard option to allow a can to recess under the handguard. A ported SD barrel that accepts a MP5SD can would be really fantastic too.

Is there any idea what the actual price will be at release?

They have opened reservations ($50) since 2/2/2023.  When you reserve, you will see six different complete upper options starting at 1400 to 1575.
https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/reservation-for-bearing-delay-upper

Sites says expected delivery Q1 to early Q2.

So does a lefty get smacked in the shoulder with brass?

There is a video on their FB page.  Post on Nov 4th.
@courtneydarlin0011 doing a full auto burst left handed.  Brass appears to go over her right elbow.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/677494893726556/?s=single_unit

From the video it looks like the cases eject far enough forward that a Colt style 9mm deflector/port door could be installed, might be worth experimenting with.

For some reason, that video is not available when I try to play it.

Next question- will removal of your handguard and barrel nut require some proprietary tool or will regular wrenches work?

It’s been a few weeks, wondering the same silverbear.

Yep.  I have an amazing ability to kill threads just by posting.  Apparently it still works, LOL.

After having a subpar time with my RDB setup I'm really hoping this works...

I would hope there is an option for hotter ammo/longer barrels also.

Missed this question somehow.  

No special tools needed - the handguard needs allen wrench/hex key (1/16") and barrel nut needs normal open end box wrench (1-1/4")

Thank you.  I appreciate the response.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, can you please confirm that this system will work with Colt-style SMG magazines?  Your original post stated that your upper will work with " milspec AR-15 lowers" (with Endomags) and "dedicated pistol magazine lower receivers".  The Colt-style 9mm magazines I have been using with great success are not pistol magazines and I would like a clear-cut answer as to whether or not they are compatible before investing $1500 in an upper I won't be able to use.

I know I am in a minority here, but living in the socialist paradise of CT, I can't just trot out and buy a bunch of new magazines.  I have to use what I have. While I am very interested in your new upper, I can't use it if it isn't compatible with original Colt SMG 9mm magazines.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

@MEAN_Arms someone already asked this on your Facebook page but nobody responded.

I'm not MEAN Arms but I think I recall finding a thread stating it would NOT be a drop in even after removing the ejector for a Colt mag lower.  I was trying to find that thread for you but can't find it right now.
I believe it will be just like the CMMG RDB where modifications have to happen to the feed ramp block as well as the lowering of the mag height.  
Then if you want LRBHO you need to add material to the BHO or get a custom one made.
Lastly, if you push up on the mag (use it like a monopod) it will jam up unless a new mag block is made or again material is added to the feed block that has an integrated stop to engage the top front of the Colt mags.

I addressed all of these except the last one with my Hahn block and Colt mags w/ my CMMG RDB here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=374

If MEAN ever delivers my upper, I do plan on testing it in full auto with my Hahn block Colt mag setup.  So I will be at least one of the guinea pigs.

Could MeanArms please have us a list of lowers that have been tested with this upper and are known to work?
I am especially interested in the following lowers:

FM Products FM9
Quartercircle10 QC10
JP Enterprises GMR-15
Colt 9mm

Are there any triggers that will not work with this upper?

Please add the PSA AR V lower to this list of compatibility.   I think your upper with the ARV lower would be the cat's ass even though you are getting up into the SIG MPX $$$ once you build it.

I saw on their FB page that Guns and Ammo's AR-15 magazine has an article on the MEAN Arms bearing delay:


I already had a discussion with someone at MEAN inquiring what prevents the carrier from rotating since there is no key and he told me it has some rails that protrude from the extension.  
The article mentions these rails but no pictures.  
They also confirm that the chamber is fluted.  16 flutes, nitrided and chrome lined according to the article.
They also have a picture of some spent brass showing the marks on the brass from the fluted chamber that look just like brass that came out of an MP5.

I don't know that tower that houses and BHO in the ARV lower will probably cause a lot of issues, it certainly did when I tried it with CMMG's RDB. I'm honestly just waiting on Amphibian to get his and give us the low down before I order one. I just dropped $1000 on one of Rudy's 10mm DI uppers in December and am still playing with that.

I can't wait to get mine.  I am kind of disappointed we didn't get to see what these rails look like and how they are in the upper as I thought the upper was supposed to be a standard AR upper but in the pictures the uppers don't appear to have a gas tube hole so definitely not for anything using a gas tube / piston.  I would suspect they are not machined for a cam pin either so you would think they may sell them separately for those wanting some PCC build but now the rails throw things off if the upper has to be machined for these rails.  Maybe they really do interface with the extension and reside in grooves in the upper so the uppers can be used for any PCC build.

Guess we just need to be patient till someone does an article with more details or it gets in the wild.

Their website still says, "Expected to begin shipping late Q1 - early Q2."  
I hope that means 2023....
If so, should be any day now...

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts Amphibian. I check your site every once in a while hoping you've posted some new info pertaining to it. Let us know!

Wish they were doing just the BCG/barrel option like cmmg did.
$1400 is little too spendy for me for just an upper.
For that kind of money I'd probably look into one of those mp5 clones.
Will watch thread to see how this plays out.

Yeah I am having trouble justifying that price as well. If a couple of the initial backers on here come out with a glowing recommendation for it I might be more interested in it. For right now though, I'm really not all that in a rush to order one.