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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 7:32:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mike327]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Under Conneticut it clearly states uppers....you can keep trying, but you are only digging a deeper hole. Their policy is clear. OP didn't read it, not CMMG's fault. I don't agree with the restocking fee on a non shipped and returned item, but it's their policy and we all check the "I've read the terms and agreements" box without reading...... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Under Conneticut it clearly states uppers....you can keep trying, but you are only digging a deeper hole. Their policy is clear. OP didn't read it, not CMMG's fault. I don't agree with the restocking fee on a non shipped and returned item, but it's their policy and we all check the "I've read the terms and agreements" box without reading...... Go find that policy on the site. Then go through the checkout process. You'll see the problem pretty quickly. That screenshot is only visible from the Support page. In contrast, here's what I saw while checking out: Order cancellation and product refund requests are subject to a 15% restocking fee. All products that are returned as part of a product refund request must be processed through CMMG, Inc.’s Customer Service team as an approved Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) and follow CMMG, Inc.’s Lifetime Quality Guarantee. If orders have products that are restricted in your state your order will be canceled and your card will be charged 15% of the order total. It is the customer's responsibility to know their local and state laws prior to ordering. It's worth noting this was very visible, in bright yellow. Good! But it is very clear with the usage of the phrase 'restricted in your state'. Most of their shipping policies go far beyond what is actually restricted and so there is a clear inconsistency between what CMMG thinks the policies are, what warnings they have during checkout, and the policies articulated on the rest of the site. Nor does the website appear to link to the full policies anywhere during the checkout process. Nor are they easily discoverable from the footer under "terms and conditions", but only through the Customer Service link at the top, and then "Shipping Policy". The footer is not visible during checkout anyway. You are all defending something indefensible. It's embarassing. This is a bug, easily reproduced, and should be fixed. CMMG if you see this, there are apparently things that integrate with BigCommerce and can segment items based on shipping destination. I don't think any will be turnkey, but there might be something close enough that can be adapted. More easily, you should also be able to amend the bright yellow checkout notification to be more clear that your policies are above and beyond what's legal, link to the full policies, and filter the policies during checkout them such that only the ones relevant to the shipping address are shown. In general your policies should be reworded to avoid the issues you've seen described in this thread. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 7:37:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HotHolster: Go to court for $286? With a clear cut policy in place? I'm willing to bet that his credit card company will get him the $286 back, but I'll also bet the OP reads things clearly before he orders again from anywhere. The phrase "clear cut" has nothing to do with it, as described in this very thread much more clearly than the policies in question. Though I do suspect you're right about that last part. Or maybe he will just buy from places that don't seem to hate their customers. 
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 7:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTDR]
[#3]
disregard..........not getting involved.
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Posted: 7/21/2023 7:49:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d16man]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mach: while they will not ship him an upper IAW their policy, the only thing that triggers a 15% restocking fee is articulated as: "'ordering firearms prohibited by your jurisdiction will result in order cancellation and a 15% restocking fee'" he did not order a firearm CMMG charged him a 15% fee anyway words have meaning Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mach: Originally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mach: maybe you should read it again. "'ordering firearms prohibited by your jurisdiction will result in order cancellation and a 15% restocking fee'" he did not order a firearm nor did he order anything prohibited by his jurisdiction https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/337946/Screenshot_20230721-095812_Chrome-2893256.jpg Under Conneticut it clearly states uppers....you can keep trying, but you are only digging a deeper hole. Their policy is clear. OP didn't read it, not CMMG's fault. I don't agree with the restocking fee on a non shipped and returned item, but it's their policy and we all check the "I've read the terms and agreements" box without reading...... while they will not ship him an upper IAW their policy, the only thing that triggers a 15% restocking fee is articulated as: "'ordering firearms prohibited by your jurisdiction will result in order cancellation and a 15% restocking fee'" he did not order a firearm CMMG charged him a 15% fee anyway words have meaning We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 7:52:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mike327]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. |
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Posted: 7/21/2023 8:37:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. I would request a charge back. However, it is pretty clear what their terms are. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 8:50:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbctny: I didn't bother looking at their shipping restrictions since all screens from adding to cart to checking out clearly said it was my responsibility to know my state laws, and as much as my state sucks, they aren't restricted by the state. If it said something during the checkout process they'd be in the right. If they had a little button like Brownells that said can we ship this item to you, they'd be right, if they had checkout disabled for certain items like PSA they'd be right. They do none of those, they are in the wrong. I agree that CMMG is in the wrong. I went through the process to purchase like I normally would and take it that you know the state law. Charge back is justified and their policy is BS because It is hidden under some other tab. If they want to justify the charge then the customer should automatically be linked to the policy and have to acknowledge it prior to the purchase going through. They definitely lost a customer from this BS with me. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 8:54:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By QCMGR: I would request a charge back. However, it is pretty clear what their terms are. Their terms are inconsistent in their presentation, incorrectly stated during checkout, poorly worded to begin with, and indefensible. Their terms are only clear in this thread because someone else ran into the problem, CMMG pointed at the not-mentioned-during-checkout policies, and we have the benefit of that hindsight. No matter how clearly or unclearly the terms were stated, it does not cost $286 to restock items that were never shipped, nevermind delivered, opened, and returned. This situation is ridiculous for many reasons. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 8:55:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. What upper was ordered is irrelevant because uppers aren't restricted here. Also, SBRs are also legal in CT when done with a pre-ban lower, which I have multiple of. The fault is with the company that told me to know my state laws before ordering. I know my laws. |
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Posted: 7/21/2023 9:28:50 PM EDT
[#10]
100% on CMMG - they should send the uppers with a discount.
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Posted: 7/21/2023 9:56:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Why are they charging restocking on something they refused to unstock in the first place?
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Posted: 7/21/2023 10:40:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. Technically OP got a 30% discount, so I doubt he is even out the $300..... |
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Posted: 7/21/2023 10:41:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbctny: What upper was ordered is irrelevant because uppers aren't restricted here. Also, SBRs are also legal in CT when done with a pre-ban lower, which I have multiple of. The fault is with the company that told me to know my state laws before ordering. I know my laws. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbctny: Originally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. What upper was ordered is irrelevant because uppers aren't restricted here. Also, SBRs are also legal in CT when done with a pre-ban lower, which I have multiple of. The fault is with the company that told me to know my state laws before ordering. I know my laws. Their policy is that they are restricted. Period. You didn't read, not their fault. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2023 11:57:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Their policy is that they are restricted. Period. You didn't read, not their fault. Read the thread. You are wrong. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 6:48:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sywagon]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Technically OP got a 30% discount, so I doubt he is even out the $300..... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. Technically OP got a 30% discount, so I doubt he is even out the $300.....  He got nothing - how is that a discount? He gave the amount that he's out, having received nothing, in the OP, and it's near enough to $300 as makes no difference. The restocking policy states clearly that it applies if it is a prohibited firearm in his state, and it isn't either of those. It doesn't say if "we" restrict it in your state for no good reason. An upper can't be an SBR on its own either. Pistols are still legal if they don't have a brace. He got sold a bill of goods. They are unwilling to sale unrestricted items to people already suffering from extreme restrictions. They are willing to charge you a hefty amount if you even try though. I'll not be a customer after this, that is for sure. Why is there no CMMG rep in here, given it's their forum? |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 8:52:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: d16man]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sywagon: He got nothing - how is that a discount? He gave the amount that he's out, having received nothing, in the OP, and it's near enough to $300 as makes no difference. The restocking policy states clearly that it applies if it is a prohibited firearm in his state, and it isn't either of those. It doesn't say if "we" restrict it in your state for no good reason. An upper can't be an SBR on its own either. Pistols are still legal if they don't have a brace. He got sold a bill of goods. They are unwilling to sale unrestricted items to people already suffering from extreme restrictions. They are willing to charge you a hefty amount if you even try though. I'll not be a customer after this, that is for sure. Why is there no CMMG rep in here, given it's their forum? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sywagon: Originally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. Technically OP got a 30% discount, so I doubt he is even out the $300..... He got nothing - how is that a discount? He gave the amount that he's out, having received nothing, in the OP, and it's near enough to $300 as makes no difference. The restocking policy states clearly that it applies if it is a prohibited firearm in his state, and it isn't either of those. It doesn't say if "we" restrict it in your state for no good reason. An upper can't be an SBR on its own either. Pistols are still legal if they don't have a brace. He got sold a bill of goods. They are unwilling to sale unrestricted items to people already suffering from extreme restrictions. They are willing to charge you a hefty amount if you even try though. I'll not be a customer after this, that is for sure. Why is there no CMMG rep in here, given it's their forum? He saved 30% over what he would have paid had they not been on sale. If the upper is normally $1000, he would have paid $700, thereby saving $300. It's an expensive lesson to learn. I said earlier that I don't agree with their policy, but it is in black and white. I am amazed at how many people on here continue to hammer the company that clearly states what they will/won't ship and what happens. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 8:53:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Read the thread. You are wrong. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: Their policy is that they are restricted. Period. You didn't read, not their fault. Read the thread. You are wrong.  read cmmg's terms and conditions. This thread doesn't matter as THEY are the company. Their company, their rules. Right? That's what gets posted on arfcom almost daily about various subjects.
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Posted: 7/22/2023 10:13:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: He saved 30% over what he would have paid had they not been on sale. If the upper is normally $1000, he would have paid $700, thereby saving $300. It's an expensive lesson to learn. I said earlier that I don't agree with their policy, but it is in black and white. I am amazed at how many people on here continue to hammer the company that clearly states what they will/won't ship and what happens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By sywagon: Originally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: We don't know what uppers OP ordered. If he ordered an upper governed by NFA laws, and SBR's arnt legal (and given the current brace rule braces are out also), then CMMG could be sued for aiding and abeting if they shipped it. We've already seen NY go after Polymer80 and a bunch of others. CMMG is protecting themselves. I know you want to blame this on CMMG, but the fault is solely with the OP on this one. Words have meaning, and in this case OP didn't read the words. Words DO have meaning, I agree. OP read the words during checkout. The ones that I quoted above. Under that verbiage, with no hint of other policies he would have had to actively search for, he is absolutely in the clear. Edit: And CMMG can certainly cancel the order to protect themselves, but I'll note that this is actually about the $300 fee they are charging for the privilege of correctly reading one of the inconsistent phrasings of their shipping policies. It is misleading to suggest "they are correct to protect themselves" as an argument for why this specific action was correct and reasonable, especially when CMMG did NOT adequately communicate those policies and instead phrased it in a way completely incompatible to the way they are applying it. Technically OP got a 30% discount, so I doubt he is even out the $300..... He got nothing - how is that a discount? He gave the amount that he's out, having received nothing, in the OP, and it's near enough to $300 as makes no difference. The restocking policy states clearly that it applies if it is a prohibited firearm in his state, and it isn't either of those. It doesn't say if "we" restrict it in your state for no good reason. An upper can't be an SBR on its own either. Pistols are still legal if they don't have a brace. He got sold a bill of goods. They are unwilling to sale unrestricted items to people already suffering from extreme restrictions. They are willing to charge you a hefty amount if you even try though. I'll not be a customer after this, that is for sure. Why is there no CMMG rep in here, given it's their forum? He saved 30% over what he would have paid had they not been on sale. If the upper is normally $1000, he would have paid $700, thereby saving $300. It's an expensive lesson to learn. I said earlier that I don't agree with their policy, but it is in black and white. I am amazed at how many people on here continue to hammer the company that clearly states what they will/won't ship and what happens. Cuttlefish |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 10:19:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Restocking fee for something that never shipped? Their system cant be set up to auto cancel what CMMG dosent agree w/(not state law mind you)? Yeah, thats BS...
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Posted: 7/22/2023 10:40:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mach: while they will not ship him an upper IAW their policy, the only thing that triggers a 15% restocking fee is articulated as: "'ordering firearms prohibited by your jurisdiction will result in order cancellation and a 15% restocking fee'" he did not order a firearm CMMG charged him a 15% fee anyway words have meaning I'm going with this. While what really should have happened is a full refund, charging both fees is dumb on their part. Either he ordered a firearm or he didn't. For the record, regardless of with CMMGs policies say, IMHO I agree with the OP. Uppers are completely legal in his state, as they are mine. One would think that these companies, who have lawyers to tell them what is illegal, would also have lawyers that would tell them what is legal. They can do both right? Companies like CMMG, and Palmetto for that matter, or any other "gun" company refusing to ship completely legal items to what you call commie states is furthering the gun control agenda. They should be shipping everything they can to us. How do you know OP isnt building a single shot rifle? You can scream about lawsuits all you want. If a lawyer can READ, they can tell you what is legal and what isn't. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 10:54:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Southrnshooter]
[#21]
I went through the process using their cart to order an upper. The only thing I ever saw was the yellow tab at the top of the checkout page. If what OP says is true and the uppers he ordered are perfectly legal in CT then CMMG needs to do some work on their website.
I perused their site looking for their shipping policy and finally found the right tab after 5-6 minutes of looking. I agree their business, their rules. But if you state if it’s legal in your state we ship (and it’s legal) on the checkout page, then you don’t and you charge a 15% restocking fee you have a problem in my opinion. I know they are trying to protect themselves from lawsuits but I’ve been to other sites to order things with pull-down states in the shipping fields and accidentally hit NY instead of NC and now my order won’t go through. I’m not computer literate but I know this can be done. I really would like to hear CMMG come in and explain please? I own a lot of their products. My home defense AR is mostly CMMG from the old days. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 11:32:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: read cmmg's terms and conditions. This thread doesn't matter as THEY are the company. Their company, their rules. Right? That's what gets posted on arfcom almost daily about various subjects.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: Their policy is that they are restricted. Period. You didn't read, not their fault. Read the thread. You are wrong. read cmmg's terms and conditions. This thread doesn't matter as THEY are the company. Their company, their rules. Right? That's what gets posted on arfcom almost daily about various subjects.You're here, so it's obvious arfcom is not uniform or cohesive. Funny how you distance yourself at the same time. How you would resolve this if it were B2B? Do you think all terms are equally powerful, and if so how do you resolve the customer putting a link to their terms of purchase in the Notes field of a purchase? Draw the lines, I'm interested in this brave new world of yours.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 11:53:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Don’t think of it as a “re-stocking fee” think of it as fees/ charges that CMMG had to pay their credit card processor. Normally for an order that ships they would eat that fee as a cost of doing business. However, someone who cancels or placed an order against their policy should have to eat that fee. Anyone who accepts credit card payments understands this.
As soon as you erroneously placed your order on CMMG’s website, their CC processor took their fee ($286). Why should CMMG have to pay for your fuck up? |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 11:59:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hottnucks: Don’t think of it as a “re-stocking fee” think of it as fees/ charges that CMMG had to pay their credit card processor. Normally for an order that ships they would eat that fee as a cost of doing business. However, someone who cancels or placed an order against their policy should have to eat that fee. Anyone who accepts credit card payments understands this. As soon as you erroneously placed your order on CMMG’s website, their CC processor took their fee ($286). Why should CMMG have to pay for your fuck up? Sure, sure. Let's pretend. They are not paying 15% processing fees. No one is. I'm a rinky-dink hobbyist much of the time and for that I pay $.30 + 2.9% or something like that to process credit cards. And their terms STILL weren't adequately addressed and you have ignored that. It's been well documented in this very thread. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 12:08:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: You're here, so it's obvious arfcom is not uniform or cohesive. Funny how you distance yourself at the same time. How you would resolve this if it were B2B? Do you think all terms are equally powerful, and if so how do you resolve the customer putting a link to their terms of purchase in the Notes field of a purchase? Draw the lines, I'm interested in this brave new world of yours. I wouldn't charge restocking fee, but if someone didn't read the T&C and ordered something I wouldn't ship, their order would be canceled. If they reached out to CS, they would get a polite response. If they started a thread like this bitching, I would fire them as a customer. I run a multimillion $ office and deal with 700+ clients on a weekly basis. I deal with this all the time. In 6 months I have only fired 1 customer while gaining 20+. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 12:11:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: I wouldn't charge restocking fee, but if someone didn't read the T&C and ordered something I wouldn't ship, their order would be canceled. If they reached out to CS, they would get a polite response. If they started a thread like this bitching, I would fire them as a customer. I run a multimillion $ office and deal with 700+ clients on a weekly basis. I deal with this all the time. In 6 months I have only fired 1 customer while gaining 20+. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mike327: You're here, so it's obvious arfcom is not uniform or cohesive. Funny how you distance yourself at the same time. How you would resolve this if it were B2B? Do you think all terms are equally powerful, and if so how do you resolve the customer putting a link to their terms of purchase in the Notes field of a purchase? Draw the lines, I'm interested in this brave new world of yours. I wouldn't charge restocking fee, but if someone didn't read the T&C and ordered something I wouldn't ship, their order would be canceled. If they reached out to CS, they would get a polite response. If they started a thread like this bitching, I would fire them as a customer. I run a multimillion $ office and deal with 700+ clients on a weekly basis. I deal with this all the time. In 6 months I have only fired 1 customer while gaining 20+. Then you should know better, having read the thread. Consistently and accurately articulating your terms is table stakes. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 12:51:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Then you should know better, having read the thread. Consistently and accurately articulating your terms is table stakes. I do know better. I read the T&E when I order something, thereby preventing this type of situation. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 1:07:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: I do know better. I read the T&E when I order something, thereby preventing this type of situation. Apparently not, because the terms are inconsistently stated and you remain, somehow, convinced that OP did not read the terms. The OP did read the terms during checkout. Those terms directly contradict the other terms on the website, to which there is no hint of their existence during checkout. The terms during checkout are very clear, but those aren't the ones CMMG is applying. This is the core problem that lead to this situation and has been covered several times, but you persist in your intentional ignorance of the basic facts. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 2:49:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: read cmmg's terms and conditions. This thread doesn't matter as THEY are the company. Their company, their rules. Right? That's what gets posted on arfcom almost daily about various subjects.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: Originally Posted By Mike327: Originally Posted By d16man: Their policy is that they are restricted. Period. You didn't read, not their fault. Read the thread. You are wrong. read cmmg's terms and conditions. This thread doesn't matter as THEY are the company. Their company, their rules. Right? That's what gets posted on arfcom almost daily about various subjects. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 2:51:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: He saved 30% over what he would have paid had they not been on sale. If the upper is normally $1000, he would have paid $700, thereby saving $300. It's an expensive lesson to learn. I said earlier that I don't agree with their policy, but it is in black and white. I am amazed at how many people on here continue to hammer the company that clearly states what they will/won't ship and what happens. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 3:30:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d16man]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: Apparently not, because the terms are inconsistently stated and you remain, somehow, convinced that OP did not read the terms. The OP did read the terms during checkout. Those terms directly contradict the other terms on the website, to which there is no hint of their existence during checkout. The terms during checkout are very clear, but those aren't the ones CMMG is applying. This is the core problem that lead to this situation and has been covered several times, but you persist in your intentional ignorance of the basic facts. You simply point to checkout. That is great, and nice that a company like Brownell's has the "can we ship to you" option, but that is not an excuse for not reading the full policy.  Fwiw, I pulled PSA's: https://palmettostatearmory.com/shipping-restrictions-by-state.html#CT I also looked up Brownells and Geissele and couldn't find specific links to shipping restrictions. (Brownells does have the zip code link on the items). |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 3:40:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sywagon: He didn't get any uppers. He spent $286 for NOTHING. How are you getting around to him "saving"? He got ripped off. Period. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sywagon: Originally Posted By d16man: He saved 30% over what he would have paid had they not been on sale. If the upper is normally $1000, he would have paid $700, thereby saving $300. It's an expensive lesson to learn. I said earlier that I don't agree with their policy, but it is in black and white. I am amazed at how many people on here continue to hammer the company that clearly states what they will/won't ship and what happens. Like I said, expensive lesson. It would have been more expensive without the 30% coupon he had. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 3:41:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: You simply point to checkout. That is great, and nice that a company like Brownell's has the "can we ship to you" option, but that is not an excuse for not reading the full policy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/337946/Screenshot_20230722-152920_Chrome-2894620.jpg I quoted the text shown when one checks out. There is no hint that there are additional policies, and the policy stated during checkout is completely different to the ones elsewhere on the site. OP is within the right in the terms and policies that were shown to him. You, however, are hilariously wrong and continue to refuse to address the issues this thread brought to light. 
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Posted: 7/22/2023 4:06:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: Isn't Ct a state where you can only purchase ''HBAR'' AR's? A lower that is serialized could be anything you want it to be and I'd bet the state would LOVE to try to go after them if it was ever found in an ''illegal'' form. Hate your STATE, they are the real issue. That’s Maryland. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 4:11:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike327: I quoted the text shown when one checks out. There is no hint that there are additional policies, and the policy stated during checkout is completely different to the ones elsewhere on the site. OP is within the right in the terms and policies that were shown to him. You, however, are hilariously wrong and continue to refuse to address the issues this thread brought to light. I addressed: 1) OP didn't read the full T&E 2) CMMG's policy is one I don't agree with 3) whether the upper is a firearm or not by your definition, CT considers it (along with a long list including muzzle devices, grips, rails, etc) a part of an "assault weapon". 4) CMMG is not the only gun manufacturer who will not ship stuff (full guns, receivers, parts, etc) to CT. Seems the only thing I missed is why you refuse to look at the full T&C...... |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2023 5:30:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mike327]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: I addressed: 1) OP didn't read the full T&E 2) CMMG's policy is one I don't agree with 3) whether the upper is a firearm or not by your definition, CT considers it (along with a long list including muzzle devices, grips, rails, etc) a part of an "assault weapon". 4) CMMG is not the only gun manufacturer who will not ship stuff (full guns, receivers, parts, etc) to CT. Seems the only thing I missed is why you refuse to look at the full T&C...... How exactly do you think I 'refuse to look at' the full T&C when I've been comparing the two incompatible sets of T&C the whole time? 1. OP did not know there were further terms. That is on CMMG for not indicating the terms shown were incomplete. 2. cool 3. It is, however, legal to ship to him and would be compliant with the terms OP agreed to when he purchased, having not had any indication the terms shown to him were incomplete or incorrect. 4. is not an excuse for failing to show the full terms or attempting to charge the restocking fee when nothing was even shipped. |
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Posted: 7/22/2023 9:10:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Thanks for this thread all. Makes up my mind about future purchases.
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Posted: 7/22/2023 11:09:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cajun_Redneck]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UncleGAK: To find this, you must look under CUSTOMER SERVICE > SHIPPING POLICY. There is nothing in the checkout process for states restrictions. All it says is: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/236821/Screenshot_2023-07-21_at_10-52-52_Checko-2893308.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UncleGAK: Originally Posted By d16man: When it says it right on their website that they don't ship uppers (as well as the cancelation and restock fee),I don't blame the vendor. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/337946/Screenshot_20230721-095812_Chrome-2893256.jpg To find this, you must look under CUSTOMER SERVICE > SHIPPING POLICY. There is nothing in the checkout process for states restrictions. All it says is: Order cancellation and product refund requests are subject to a 15% restocking fee. All products that are returned as part of a product refund request must be processed through CMMG, Inc.’s Customer Service team as an approved Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) and follow CMMG, Inc.’s Lifetime Quality Guarantee. If orders have products that are restricted in your state your order will be canceled and your card will be charged 15% of the order total. It is the customer's responsibility to know their local and state laws prior to ordering. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/236821/Screenshot_2023-07-21_at_10-52-52_Checko-2893308.JPG Yeah, that wording in yellow would’ve gotten me as well. I assume being uppers aren’t restricted in Louisiana that I’d be good to go. Would not have thought twice to see if a Louisiana restriction was tucked away somewhere else on their site. I’ll definitely be reading online sites thoroughly and get confirmation via email if it’s not clearly stated. |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 12:54:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jodan1776]
[#39]
JHC
Many of you are missing the point (not terribly surprising). The point is NOT the upper not shipping, it's the charging of an exorbitant "restocking" fee for something THEY refused to ship and never UNstocked. |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:09:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jodan1776: JHC Many of you are missing the point (not terribly surprising). The point is NOT the upper not shipping, it's the charging of an exorbitant "restocking" fee for something THEY refused to ship and never UNstocked. Yeah, I understand them being concerned about getting blowback if they ship even legal items to restrictive states. But 15% “restocking fee” for an item their system should just not accept an order for in the first place and which was never removed from stock is poor business practice at minimum. |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:24:06 AM EDT
[#41]
regardless of OP's due diligence, as a person also behind lines I FUCKING HATE companies that refuse to ship WHATEVER THE FUCK I PAY FOR. CA shit laws don't apply to out of state companies. Its my ass on the line. ship the fucking product Clown. Will never buy from cmmg. Aim does the same shit. they can fuck off.
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USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:24:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NAM: Disagree; OP stepped on his dick and did not read the terms. Chalk it up to an expensive lesson, or repent and plead for forgiveness from CMMG. All I read from op was didn't read website/business terms of agreement so must cry on internet restocking fee is a pretty thoroughly used action.. |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:28:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Afteractionreport: That's a big restocking fee Especially for something that wasn't unstocked..... |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:42:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By QCMGR: Stupid should hurt! Do you read the full terms and conditions on every purchase you make? No, no you don't. Stop the holier than thou BS. |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:45:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jodan1776: JHC Many of you are missing the point (not terribly surprising). The point is NOT the upper not shipping, it's the charging of an exorbitant "restocking" fee for something THEY refused to ship and never UNstocked. They aren't missing the point, but they are revealing their character. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:49:09 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man: I do know better. I read the T&E when I order something, thereby preventing this type of situation. No you don't lol. You absolutely do not read the entire terms and conditions related to everything you buy. That's the dumbest thing I've read today, and that's saying something. |
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:57:30 AM EDT
[#47]
I’d be pissed. OP got ripped off. Also, he was overpaying for the upper he didn’t get. How the Hell are they getting $1500 for an upper?
 That’s like a -300% Discount.
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Posted: 7/23/2023 1:58:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#48]
Don't buy from CMMG...Noted.
They don't ship to Denver, but everything is legal there. And nearly everything you buy ships through a Denver facility on it's way to anywhere else in the State. I can't stand 2A companies that get one their knees for the gov, faster than a $2 meth whore. It's one thing to reluctantly follow the Unconstitutional laws... It's another to proactively envoke your own. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 3:53:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DvlDog]
[#49]
OP chooses to live in shitty blue state gulag and gets mad when companies won’t break the law and open themselves up to prosecution to convenience him. LOL pretty much what I expect from someone who lives in CT.
You KNOW you live in CT, you should expect this. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 3:59:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DvlDog]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Don't buy from CMMG...Noted. They don't ship to Denver, but everything is legal there. And nearly everything you buy ships through a Denver facility on it's way to anywhere else in the State. I can't stand 2A companies that get one their knees for the gov, faster than a $2 meth whore. It's one thing to reluctantly follow the Unconstitutional laws... It's another to proactively envoke your own. I get that you have a 2023 join date but CMMG was started by old school members here. They are one of the good ones. OP was dumb and played himself. It will likely get worked out. A bunch of guys that just got here shitting on a decent company they probably hadn’t heard of a year ago doesnt help at all. Take that shit back to reddit. |
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