Thanks Yall , Jedi I got some good notes out of your post . I felt like a idiot after seeing the MHZ to Meter convertion I knew it from another field and didnt even consider it applied with commication radios.

ETA : If I look at a topo map to see if I have LOS with a location how much per 20 miles should I give myself to allow for Curvature of the Earth. Im going to go for my licence by the end of the year but I would like to talk one of my closest buddies into going into it to. If it looks like we could communicate on 2M I think he would be more likly to get into it. It looks like the 2m stuff is affordable enuff were he would get into it with out alot of issues. He lives 34 miles from where I live now, which is in range from what Im gathering if terrain is favorfull.

Hawk_308
You should be able to communicate over the distance of 38 miles but allow the following considerations.
You both have a rig that runs 25-50 watts.
You DON't have a mountain or high ridgeline between you.
You both have antennas mounted as high as is reasonably practical.
OR... you utilize a repeater..

One point that I haven't seen yet is "absorption" of a signal due to foliage. This is one concern when using any low powered HT in densley wooded areas and another reason to get your antenna above the average tree height.

Best luck Hawk..

FN

Originally Posted By Mastery: While I'm learning this "new to me" technology, what would be a good handheld unit to get in meantime?  Thinking of SHTF scenarios that can affect my area (tornado, earthquake, etc), I've tried to find a handheld that would give me the following features: 1.  Ability to transmit (or more preferably, hear) a decent distance (50 miles preferred, but at least 10 miles from somebody else. 2.  Somewhat weather resistant to rain/water/humidity 3.  Can take AA or AAA batteries, since electrical charging may not be possible 4.  Price under $250 On the recommendations on this thread so far, I tried to research the Yaesu FT-60R and VX-150.  They both fit under the price, but I can't tell if either are capable of the first three features I listed.  Am I in the right ball park on models, or should I be looking for something else? Also, to boost range, do any of these models allow for removal of their attached antenna, and allow for connection to an external, larger antenna through a cable?  And, a question I haven't seen before here:  How long do the batteries on handhelds last, when left in a standby mode?  I'd like to be able to hear what others are saying, as this would be a great resource for news.  Not sure if we are talking 2 hours per charge, or 20 or more.

you are on the right track but i recommend for a 2M-only rig that that you buy the Yaesu VX170.  it is the best 2M radio on the market today, and has the features you want.  

you will want to buy/build external antennas for use with your VX170.  a roll-up J-pole can be built in less than an hour from TV lead, and commercial versions can be found all over ebay.  short, mag mount 1/4wave antennas also make great SHTF antennas.  don't forget that a good antenna will dramatically extend battery life, since you can use a much lower TX power (which is dominant consumer of battery power).  

in standby mode (RX only), you should get at least 10-12 hours out of a charge.  there are various methods of extending this, mostly by adjusting the radio's RX duty cycle via the manu system.  you can set the radio to only activeate the RX section for 500ms out of every second, which will basically double your battery life.  the calling party just needs to know that they should talk for more than a half second when trying to reach you (not a big deal).  

also, you will want to have a watch on when the SHTF ; this way you can coordinate communication times -- "honey, check in with me at the top of every hour", or "i'll next contact with you at 1700 local".  

note: an HT makes a great starter radio, but it does have some limitations, power output being one of them.  this is complemented however, by the portability factor.  you just need to decide which way to lean first, a mobile rig with serious range or a handheld rig you can go hiking with.  basically, there are many different types of radios for the same reasons you have many different types of rifles (.22LR Ruger 10/22 to .50 Barret M82).  humping miles with a M82 would suck, as would trying to drop large game with a 10/22.  

there are some ways to extend the range of an HT (bigger antenna AND/OR VHF power amplifier), but in the end a proper mobile rig and antenna is a better solution than an HT with a power amp.

Question for Scottman:

Although I am a general class operator, I am still a newbie, just got my Tech lic. on Dec 16, 2005 and my General on March 16, 2006 still have a lot of questions and a lot to learn.  

Back on page #3 in the picture of your station, it looks as though you are using Ham Radio Deluxe on your computer screen with your FT897D.

My question is did you need a different interface other than the Yeasu CAT 62 cable or is that cable sufficient to interface to Ham Radio Deluxe?

It would be just for SSB and CW, nothing fancy like PSK31 or other digital modes. I will be using a FT857D

Originally Posted By Hawk_308: ETA : If I look at a topo map to see if I have LOS with a location how much per 20 miles should I give myself to allow for Curvature of the Earth.

www.qsl.net/kd4sai/distance.html

www.hautespot.net/support/fresnelzone.asp

www.qsl.net/ag4ty/line%20of%20site.html

www.naval.com/sight/

homepages.nildram.co.uk/~vwlowen/java/horizon.htm

distance-ed.math.tamu.edu/Precalculus_home/Module2/am_fm/signal_transmission.htm

ar-jedi

PS
now that i have worn out my fingertips on this issue , could someone who has actually built up a target 10/22 from scratch send me a PM and offer to answer some rookie questions?  

Originally Posted By ar-jedi: Originally Posted By Hawk_308: ETA : If I look at a topo map to see if I have LOS with a location how much per 20 miles should I give myself to allow for Curvature of the Earth. www.qsl.net/kd4sai/distance.html www.hautespot.net/support/fresnelzone.asp www.qsl.net/ag4ty/line%20of%20site.html www.naval.com/sight/ homepages.nildram.co.uk/~vwlowen/java/horizon.htm distance-ed.math.tamu.edu/Precalculus_home/Module2/am_fm/signal_transmission.htm ar-jedi PS now that i have worn out my fingertips on this issue , could someone who has actually built up a target 10/22 from scratch send me a PM and offer to answer some rookie questions?

Go to brownells.com or midwayusa.com for 10/22 parts, Nothing is difficult in building up a 10/22 the barrels are all pre headspced and you can swap then out with an allen wrench!!! Trigger kits are simple and work great, nothing to it!

i just got my technian lience awhile back and have no idea what radio type besides 2m to start with?

Originally Posted By Lonewalker: i just got my technian lience awhile back and have no idea what radio type besides 2m to start with?

Just read through some of the previous 5 pages and you will no longer be wondering

OT, NOT HAM RELATED!

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield: Go to brownells.com or midwayusa.com for 10/22 parts, Nothing is difficult in building up a 10/22 the barrels are all pre headspced and you can swap then out with an allen wrench!!! Trigger kits are simple and work great, nothing to it!

since your IM doesn't work... see
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=11&t=203273

ar-jedi

copied from IM with prior permission...

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question in the HAM radio tacked thread. One more question, if you don't mind. I've gone to quite a few sites, includung Yaesu and EHam.net. Great reviews on this radio. I see that it comes with a 1400maH battery pack, but can't find any information that it can take regular AA batteries as well. Is the battery pack that is included switchable with regular batteries?

the VX170 comes with a 1400mAh NiMH battery pack, Yaesu PN "FNB83". the actual batteries are permanently sealed inside the pack and can not be removed.

the battery pack which accepts standard AA's is optional, it's Yaesu PN "FBA-25A", usually around $20 or so, available from the same place that you ordered the radio from

note:
ALWAYS buy the AA pack when you get an HT; 10 years down the road when the manufacturer has long since discontinued the std battery pack you'll always be able to use AA's.

www.gigaparts.com/store.php?action=profile&sku=ZYS-VX-170
FBA-25A -- AA Battery Case -- Holds 6 AA Batteries
Works With: FT-60R, VX-120, VX-127, VX-150, VX-170, VX-177  $19.00

www.aesham.com/display_pages/vx170.shtml
FBA25 YAESU 6AA BATT CASE//FBA25A $20.99

Thanks again for the great information. Also, the links which makes it easier on me. I'm going to order the VX170 tomorrow, along with the AA kit. It will get me started, and I think having something here will help me understand the things I'm reading as I go along. Out of further curiousity, are there any other accessories that you would recommend for the VX-170 as "must haves"? I see that there are a number of different things to get, but I know a lot of that isn't really needed. Like you, I believe in getting what is needed before the items become unavailable by the manufacturer.

yes, i'd get a few things with the radio...

1) a Yaesu PN "E-DC-6" power cable. this cable has the DC connector for the radio on one end, and is "blunt" on the other end. you can attach alligator clips, a cig lighter plug, an Andersen Powerpole, or anything else you want to the other end. this will allow you to operate the VX170 at full power and/or recharge the VX170's internal battery from anywhere that you can get 9-15 Vdc from (like a car battery, or a small gel cell/AGM battery, as examples). i confess to owning several of these cables for various purposes. you may be able to construct your own similar cable from radio shack parts as well.

2) the VX170, like most current HT's, uses an antenna connector called an SMA. the SMA is quasi-new to the ham scene, and most VHF/UHF equipment (radios, antennas, SWR meters, etc) use either a BNC type or a UHF type (PL259/SO239) connector. hence, i suggest that you get an adapter from SMA male to BNC female, which will allow you to connect BNC terminated cables to your VX170. Yeasu sells this as their PN "CN-3" (see the VX170 glossy sheet for a picture of it, lower right corner on page 2) but it is probably overpriced and you can find the same part in "generic" form for much cheaper. look around the websites i linked to prior. you may also want a short BNC male to UHF/PL259 male patch cable, which will in turn allow you to connect your VX170 to an antenna equipped with a UHF/SO239 female connector. it's all about having options here.

3) finally, i would suggest that you get a small mag mount antenna for use on the car or at home (just stick the mag mount onto a cookie sheet, works great that way). you'll hear a lot more and get out a lot better with an external antenna. it's nothing to do with the radio per se, it's just physics. see the antenna reviews over at Eham for some ideas.

finally, whatever radio you get -- there is likely a user group for it.  example, VX170:
groups.yahoo.com/group/yaesu_vx-170/
if you don't want to use yahoo's groups interface, send a blank mail to
[email protected]
with the subject line set to "Subscribe".   further directions will follow.

ar-jedi

here is a start at a soup to nuts ham primer: i'll take a shot at this, and provide some links as well since my fingers would fall off before i could type everything you might want to know.

Ar-jedi, your ham-fu is magnificent! THAT is exactly the piece I wanted to write when I started this thread!

Originally Posted By Mastery: 1.  Ability to transmit (or more preferably, hear) a decent distance (50 miles preferred, but at least 10 miles from somebody else. 2.  Somewhat weather resistant to rain/water/humidity 3.  Can take AA or AAA batteries, since electrical charging may not be possible 4.  Price under $250 On the recommendations on this thread so far, I tried to research the Yaesu FT-60R and VX-150.  They both fit under the price, but I can't tell if either are capable of the first three features I listed.  Am I in the right ball park on models, or should I be looking for something else?

I just went through the HT selection process and ended up with the FT-60. So far it seems to be a very capable rig.

1) As it's already been discussed there are a lot of variables that govern your max range.
2) While not submersible like the VX-170 jedi suggested, if you're going to be in a wet environment you can always spend $10-$12 and get a waterproof bag for it.
3) The AA holder for this model is $17
4) I paid $195 for mine.

An antenna I'm seriously considering is the Diamond RH707. It's a dual-band antenna with 3dB gain! It's only 8.5" and costs $30.

Personally I'm thinking the 60 is a better option since it's dual-band. With either the 170 or 177 you're limited to either 2M or 440. If I'm in an area I'm unfamiliar with, or even if I know where the repeaters are, you have more flexibility if you can switch to another band to hit a closer repeater. At least that's my thought.

One thing I'd recommend is getting the programming software. It's a pain in the butt and very time consuming trying to program a lot of freqs manually. Fortunately my friend had just bought the same radio and had the software so he cloned my radio in seconds and now I have every local repeater at my fingertips.

Originally Posted By JaxShooter: An antenna I'm seriously considering is the Diamond RH707. It's a dual-band antenna with 3dB gain! It's only 8.5" and costs $30.

dBi ?   (dB referenced to an isotropic point source)
dBd ?  (db referenced to a dipole antenna)
dB referenced to what ?

there is no such thing as a 8.5" 3dBi omni antenna for 2M.  physically impossible.
there is no such thing as a 8.5" 3dBd omni ntenna for 2M.  physically impossible.
there is most probably a 8.5" omni antenna for 2M that exhibits 3dB gain compared to a 50ohm resistor.

summary:
there is little magic in omnidirectional antennas for VHF.   length is everything.  there is a lot of magic in the marketing of short/small omnidirectional antennas.
gain appears to come from nowhere, and instead of using industry standard references (like dBi or dBd), vendors use "dB" -- which is useful for nothing, as you have no idea what the reference was.  

remember, dB is not a value; it is a difference compared to something.

you say that antenna A shows 6 dB gain over antenna B.  antenna B is your reference.
you can't say that antenna A has 6dB of gain.  this means nothing by itself.
 
for a given antenna, you want to compare it to a known antenna design.
enter dBi and dBd, these are proper, repeatable, referenced measurements.

so
you can say an antenna has 2.2dBi gain.
or
you can say an antenna has 0dBd gain.  
these are valid statements for an example antenna (a generic dipole in this case)

caveat emptor.

ps
in SHTF cases, a roll-up DIY-for-$5 Jpole will outperform any rubber antenna you could possibly connect to your VHF/UHF HT.

ar-jedi

Geez. Excuse me for inadvertently leaving the "i" off. It's dBi. Here's the description for your reading pleasure:

The Diamond RH707 is an HT antenna for 2 meters and 440 MHz. It is 8.5 inches (21 cm) tall and has a unique hinge at the base. This flexible "tilt" antenna is black. Gain is a 3 dBi and it can handle up to 10 watts. This antenna terminates to a 50 ohm BNC.

ar-jedi

Just wondering about something:
It is obvious to me that you have far more knolage than I do on the electronics theory in antennas than I do.

Most of my interest back in the old days (1970) was building equipment. They did not have most of these fancy antennas then.(for UHF & VHF) All we used was Station Masters  and The Hustler G-7s  And I have always gone off in that direction. Building, until recently 5 to 10 years. You could not buy a ready made repeater.

And as far as UHF and VHF antennas I all ways have bought them. HF then I build and buy them.

But any way,
For years I have been using the below listed antennas for my repeater systems. Just curious what you think of this model.

It has served me well for over 30 years I have both New and old ones. One I even re used  one that was on a tower that fell. it was bent a little but still worked.

Just curious what you think of the design, It seems to out perform any thing else we have tried. It might be helpful to lay out the double loading coil design for the gain to some of the guys, maby it will help them to understand antenna Gain

ANTENNA



Thanks
SM

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield: Question for Scottman: Although I am a general class operator, I am still a newbie, just got my Tech lic. on Dec 16, 2005 and my General on March 16, 2006 still have a lot of questions and a lot to learn.   Back on page #3 in the picture of your station, it looks as though you are using Ham Radio Deluxe on your computer screen with your FT897D. My question is did you need a different interface other than the Yeasu CAT 62 cable or is that cable sufficient to interface to Ham Radio Deluxe? It would be just for SSB and CW, nothing fancy like PSK31 or other digital modes. I will be using a FT857D

Normal CAT cable is fine.

Originally Posted By ar-jedi: due to power limitations, there is no such thing as an FRS mobile radio, so you are limited to the little walkie talkies and about 2 miles range (approx).

I have seen FRS "mobile" units.  The whole radio is contained in the mag-mount antenna base, with only the controls routed inside the vehicle.  Radio Shack sold one for a while.

Same power and antenna limitations as any other FRS, but you get a slight advantage by having it outside the car and on the roof.

Jim

Originally Posted By scoutmaster: Most of my interest back in the old days (1970) was building equipment. They did not have most of these fancy antennas then.(for UHF & VHF) All we used was Station Masters  and The Hustler G-7s  And I have always gone off in that direction. For years I have been using the below listed antennas for my repeater systems. Just curious what you think of this model.  It has served me well for over 30 years I have both New and old ones. One I even re used  one that was on a tower that fell. it was bent a little but still worked. Just curious what you think of the design, It seems to out perform any thing else we have tried. It might be helpful to lay out the double loading coil design for the gain to some of the guys, maby it will help them to understand antenna Gain

SM,
you'll be please to hear that antenna development pretty much peaked in the 1960's.  while there have been advances since then in construction (e.g., a fiberglass sheathing over antenna elements), weatherproofing (anodized aluminum components), and so forth, there is really no significant advantage to modern antennas from a gain perspective.  computer modeling has allowed optimzation in some respects, but i think that you'll find that your 1970's antenna designs stand up just fine to anything you could buy these days.  

that said, the venerable stacked 5/8wave implementation you linked to is copied in several modern Comet and Diamond designs as it is an efficient, flat-lobed design with easy driving characteristics.  

summary:
if this antenna is working for you now, keep using it!  spending another few hundred bucks is probably not going to net you anything other than a shiny new antenna.

ar-jedi

great job jedi!

question?
With a 2m mobile like yours jedi, could I listen to (118.000 MHz - 136.975 MHz) the aviation freqs?

also jedi, where do you buy your equipment from?

thanks!!!

Originally Posted By Nolan1964: great job jedi! question? With a 2m mobile like yours jedi, could I listen to (118.000 MHz - 136.975 MHz) the aviation freqs? also jedi, where do you buy your equipment from? thanks!!!

I'm not Jedi, but...

The first question's answer depends on the radio you're talking about.  Most modern radios do have "extended receive" where you could hear aircraft through public service.  Some older ones (and perhaps some new ones, I don't know) were restricted to receive on transmit frequency only.  This specification (receive range) is prominently displayed, often right in the ads.

Where:  I have purchased in three 'places'.  First, there is a radio store in Overland Park (Kansas City), called "Associated Radio".  Used and new equipment, with good prices on both.  Service has been excellent.

Second, I have purchased from TexasTowers.com, an online-only (as far as I know) operation.  Good, fast service.

Third, I have purchased online at auction and listing sites--once through eHam for my TM-V7A ($300), and once from eBay for a 2m signal amplifier.  Both could be considered "risky", but the nice thing about amateur radio is that you can look someone up by call sign.

You really can't beat having a store to go see things in person, see them demonstrated, and talk about what you need.  But if you already know what you want/need, then online sources often provide some unbeatable deals.  

Jim

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist: Originally Posted By Nolan1964: With a 2m mobile like yours jedi, could I listen to (118.000 MHz - 136.975 MHz) the aviation freqs? also jedi, where do you buy your equipment from? The first question's answer depends on the radio you're talking about.  Most modern radios do have "extended receive" where you could hear aircraft through public service.  Some older ones (and perhaps some new ones, I don't know) were restricted to receive on transmit frequency only.  This specification (receive range) is prominently displayed, often right in the ads.

let me clarify one thing here though.  the ability to tune to a given frequency has to be matched by the ability to demodulate the signal you are looking for.  in the example case, aviation band frequencies are AM, and not all HT's/mobiles have an AM mode.  my Yaesu VX6R does, and thus i can tune in and listen on aviation frequencies using that radio.  

however this is not the case with the V8000 (my mobile) and the VX170 (one of my HT's).  they are spec'd fpr RX from 137MHz to 174MHz, FM mode only.  hence, there is no air band RX possible on either rig -- you can't tune there nor can you set AM mode.

i *believe* that the Yaesu FT8800 (a popular dual band/dual receive mobile) will do AM across the full RX range, which will allow you to RX commercial aviation traffic as well as listen in on the "milair" frequencies in the 200-400MHz range.

ar-jedi

ETA
oops, forgot one part:
i generally buy from either
AES www.aesham.com/
or
gigparts www.gigaparts.com/radioindex.php

i would like to point out that AES will send you a beautiful color "toy" catalog for free.  it's a nice thick booklet with descriptions of all of the equipment they sell.  it's a great learning aid for folks new to the hobby, especially the radio comparison charts.
www.aesham.com/mail.html
you can also download it as one big PDF file:
www.aesham.biz/pdf/aes_catalog.pdf

Originally Posted By ar-jedi: ETA oops, forgot one part: i generally buy from either AES www.aesham.com/ or gigparts www.gigaparts.com/radioindex.php

+1 on Gigagparts as a ham radio supplier.  I've ordered a few times from them.  The service has been fast, shipping reasonable, and I got what I ordered.  I haven't ordered anything from AES yet as I've been able to find what I needed at Gigaparts for less.

+ 100 on the AES stores, I use the OHIO store and have been very happy
SM

I'm happy with Ham Radio Outlet. Just ordered a new mount and adapter yesterday and just like when I ordered my radio it's here the next day. Of course it helps that it ships out of Atlanta.

Originally Posted By Nolan1964: great job jedi! question? With a 2m mobile like yours jedi, could I listen to (118.000 MHz - 136.975 MHz) the aviation freqs? also jedi, where do you buy your equipment from? thanks!!!

Check out R&L electronics in Ohio, best prices, fast delivery www.randl.com

Originally Posted By ar-jedi: let me clarify one thing here though.  the ability to tune to a given frequency has to be matched by the ability to demodulate the signal you are looking for.  in the example case, aviation band frequencies are AM, and not all HT's/mobiles have an AM mode.  my Yaesu VX6R does, and thus i can tune in and listen on aviation frequencies using that radio.

I'm spoiled, my Kenwood TH-F6A will do AM, FM (WFM/NFM), SSB, and CW on...well, I think it will do it on all its receive frequencies, which range from 100 KHz to 1.3 GHz.  I haven't tested SSB/CW on the VHF frequencies.

I just had to flip through the manual to find those limits, and this thing has features I don't think I ever even knew about.  

Jim

NVIS ANTENNA FOR 80 METERS/3.5 to 4.000Mhz

So yesterday evening I decided to slap together a "Near Vertical Incidence Skywave" (NVIS) antenna, since we have talked about it in this thread.

I wanted it to work on the ARFCOM calling freq of 3.961Mhz, so I whipped out my calculator and typed in 468/3.961=and I got 118.15 feet.  I took a tape measure and measured out 60 feet of #14, cut it, and made a second piece identical to the first.  This gives me an overall length of 120 feet, which will allow me to snip a little off each end for tuning.  You'd rather it be too long and have to snip, than too short and have to start over....

I stuck two end supports in the ground and a center support.  I fastened the centers to a balun to match the antenna up to the rig, affixed the balun to the center support, then affixed the ends.  Plug in the coax and it was time to test.

Took my ft-897 out to the yard and keyed up pn 3.961Mhz.  Bad swr.  That's ok, because remember, I cut it long.  That means the true resonant freq will be lower.  I tuned to the CW portion of the band around 3.700 and it was a perfect match!  So I have a resonant NVIS antenna for the CW portion of 80 Meters.  I can use it to blanket my region with my signal.  I'll be doing tests on it tonight to see how it gets out.

That all took me about 30 minutes.  Here are some pics:

In this picture you can see the wire, the center support and the balun (and my daughter).


Here is a closeup of the balun.  You can buy these for about $25, or you can make your own easily enough.  This is the center feed point, you can see at the bottom, the coax connector that leads to the radio.  In a normal permanent installation, you would make an eyelet with your antenna wire, then solder it coles once it's on the balun.  Since this isn't permanent, I just wrapped. it.


And here is from the center conductor to the far end.  Exciting!


For my next trick:  If I have enough wire left, I will convert this to a 40/80M Fan Dipole.

Ok...since my last post (about an hour), I converted my 80M NVIS dipole to a tri-band Fan Dipole.  I added 40M and 6M.  The 6 meter portion is resonant across the whole band, but performs a little bit better in the higher range, which is a boo-boo because the SSB and CW portion of that band are in the lower end, but hey, CW is allowed everywhere...  It's just that there may be repeaters in the area.

Here are some more pics:

The first one is from the same vantage point as the first one in the previous post, but you can see more wire from the other two antennas added.


In this pic we're looking toward the feedpoint from one of the 40M legs.


And here is an overhead shot of the feedpoint to illustrate a real-life fan dipole feedpoint.  You can see the entire 6M dipole here.  Half a wave at 52Mhz is only 9 feet.
You can also see the high-dollar cutting edge tech rubber bands I used to attach the 6M ends.  For the other ones, I just tied the end of the leg around the support.



If I was doing this from scratch, 1000 feet of wire was $15, Balun was $20, coax to the rig was...negligible.

But I had this stuff in junk boxes from other projects and installs, so it was free.  For nothing I now have an antenna that will reliably cover my entire region, out to 400 or so miles, on two of the most active HF bands.  "40 is always open" is a saying that means you can usually get somebody somewhere on 40M.  80 is great when the sun goes away.  6....that was a wild hare up my butt...  It's pretty sporadic, and at 5 feet off the ground, I don't know how it will work, but hey...now I have a 6M dipole I can toss up on the roof when I'm done screwing around in the back yard!

Enjoy!

people interested in ham radio but not yet hams:
above is a perfect example of improvisation, adaptation, and overcoming!!!

once you have a radio and a little knowledge, a spool of wire is all it takes.

ar-jedi

Originally Posted By ar-jedi: people interested in ham radio but not yet hams: above is a perfect example of improvisation, adaptation, and overcoming!!! once you have a radio and a little knowledge, a spool of wire is all it takes. ar-jedi

I can't walk through the copper pipe section of the hardware store any more without pricing out a new J-pole or little beam.

Anyone else made the Tiny 2?  One of my favorite projects, so quick, so simple, works so well.

Jim

Scottman and ar-jedi:
Some years ago, a ham sketched a 40-meter dipole that seemed like it would add some performance.

What he had was a 40 meter dipole, a little less than 1/4 wave from the ground, and at about 30 degrees from it, on either side of the dipole and on the ground, he had director-length wires cut. This was supposed to add to the lobes travelling sideways from the antenna.

Any comment?

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Scottman and ar-jedi: Some years ago, a ham sketched a 40-meter dipole that seemed like it would add some performance. What he had was a 40 meter dipole, a little less than 1/4 wave from the ground, and at about 30 degrees from it, on either side of the dipole and on the ground, he had director-length wires cut. This was supposed to add to the lobes travelling sideways from the antenna. Any comment?

Funny you mention that.  A buddy of mine around here and I were talking about this very thing.  I don't think mine is high enough to make a difference, but we were wondering.

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist: I just had to flip through the manual to find those limits, and this thing has features I don't think I ever even knew about.   Jim

It'll do a lot more with a few simple hacks....

This might be the link ya need for the reflectors on NVIS 40/80.  Looks pretty straight forward & has decent fotos.
hometown.aol.com/alonestaryank/NVISKIT.html


AND for your reading pleasure...
Heres a few more that address the howcomes & whyfors of NVIS..
www.tactical-link.com/field_deployed_nvis.htm
www.qsl.net/wb5ude/nvis/
www.w0ipl.com/ECom/NVIS/nvis.htm


Hope these help.

FN

Well Ive been taking the practice test and I think Im ready. I was going to do a walk in last sat but got hung up at work and didnt make it so Im going to the next one ,already got the day off for it. I told my jeeping buddies about getting in to ham and one of my good trail riding buddies told me he would GIVE me a Icom 2 ? HT that was in fine shape and if his old 720 worked he would trade me a few drinks for it . My gf looked at me the other evening when I was telling her about it and said "OH great another hobby"  I just responed" it could be worst......."

I hope I didn't just accidentally "report" the post above me.  I was on another forum where "quote" is in the upper right hand part of the post, and I goofed.

Anyway, if it's an older one, the Icom 2m handhelds are classic, rugged, and work very well.  I believe they are related to the Realistic HTX-202/404 HTs, which are the classic Radio Shack handhelds from back when Radio Shack actually sold radios.

It is likely a simple, older Icom handheld, which will serve you very well.  If the battery pack needs rebuilding, post here and we can give you some tips on doing it yourself.  I rebuilt my HTX-202 pack with a pair of cordless phone rechargable packs that were on sale at Wal-Mart, and it works perfectly well and has added capacity too.

Jim

Okay I've got a question.  I got my tech license when I was pretty young maybe 14 or so.  I played around on the 2m band, found it was essentially a bunch of older men in my area chit chatting and tossed my radio in the drawer and that was about it.  I renewed my license last year and still have a 2m HT around in case of emergency but it needs some parts.  Its a yaesu ft-23r and it could use a new battery contact plate and some new screws on the bottom half.  Is there anyone that still makes parts for it anymore?  I emailed yaesu and asked them if they had a parts diagram and no one got back to me.  I might call later this week.  Is it worth it, or is it getting kind of old and more ready for the scrap heap than anything?

If it still powers up and transmits, keep it.  You can buy a used one for parts of ebay to replace the screws and the plate, and you can still get batteries for them from places on the `net.

Scott

Hey Soybomb, that sounds like 2M around here. I've learned a lot about medications, doctor's visits, meatloaf recipes, etc.

Originally Posted By JaxShooter: Hey Soybomb, that sounds like 2M around here. I've learned a lot about medications, doctor's visits, meatloaf recipes, etc.

ah, yes, you live in Florida!!!

ar-jedi

You probably will run into a lot of groups that are talking about useless stuff, What you need to do is find some of the S/F guys or others that are like minded and start your own group. It will give you a support group when SHTF and outside contacts to communicate and relay on ( a little more than sheeple)  We need to start some place. Little bits at a time and then you guys can talk about what others think of,   as useless stuff.
SM
PS pick up a HF rig someplace and check out our thursday night net on 40M

O.K.  My wife really hates you guys.  I'll be taking my Tech test next Thursday and this post is pretty much the reason.  I had been thinking about this for a while but I couldn't make up my mind.

My question(s) are:

With my ultimate goal being to be able to get on the 40, 80 and 160 meter bands in order to facilitate true long range comms, is there a radio that I can purchase right off the bat that will fulfill this dream.  I know that I will be limited to 2 meter and below until I upgrade, but is it legal for me to just have the equipment on hand if I don't transmit.

I really am having trouble with the code stuff and I hope that y'all are right about them dropping this requirement.

What equipment is required for Echolink?  This sounds like it might be interesting.

I really don't want to keep upgrading equipment if I can help it.  Maybe the wife won't get too angry if I can get set up once and be pretty well done with buying equipment.  I told her that I only wanted a base station for the house, but you know how that goes.

Thanks for the very informative post and I'll keep reading.

Originally Posted By Black-Four: O.K.  My wife really hates you guys.  I'll be taking my Tech test next Thursday and this post is pretty much the reason.  I had been thinking about this for a while but I couldn't make up my mind. My question(s) are: With my ultimate goal being to be able to get on the 40, 80 and 160 meter bands in order to facilitate true long range comms, is there a radio that I can purchase right off the bat that will fulfill this dream.  I know that I will be limited to 2 meter and below until I upgrade, but is it legal for me to just have the equipment on hand if I don't transmit. I really am having trouble with the code stuff and I hope that y'all are right about them dropping this requirement. What equipment is required for Echolink?  This sounds like it might be interesting. I really don't want to keep upgrading equipment if I can help it.  Maybe the wife won't get too angry if I can get set up once and be pretty well done with buying equipment.  I told her that I only wanted a base station for the house, but you know how that goes. Thanks for the very informative post and I'll keep reading.

You only need a computer and a internet connection for echolink once you get you tech lic.

The most inexspensive radio that does an outstanding job of covering everything is the Yaesu FT857D it has 440, 2meters and 6 meters which all can be used with a tech license. Then it has 10, 12, 15, 17, 20. 30, 40, 60, 75/80, and 160meter bands which you may use with a General License. It can be used FM, AM, CW, SSB, and packet (digital) modes. It is available for under $660 if you look in the right places. It is the smallest full power, full featured radio available!! It delivers a full 100 watts on all but 2 meters were it is 50 watts and 440 is 20 watts.
Although it is my base radio I took it, couple of ham sticks and my tuner on a 10 state vacation back in April and was able to keep in contact with my friends back home in Indiana even from Cape Hatteras NC.

Originally Posted By Black-Four: With my ultimate goal being to be able to get on the 40, 80 and 160 meter bands in order to facilitate true long range comms, is there a radio that I can purchase right off the bat that will fulfill this dream.  I know that I will be limited to 2 meter and below until I upgrade, but is it legal for me to just have the equipment on hand if I don't transmit.

if you have the coin, you can get an Icom 706 MkIIG.  one of the best radios ever.  decent receiver, 100W out on HF, 50W on VHF, and 20W on UHF, all in a very small form factor.  it is a tad thirsty on RX (~1.5A) so keep that in mind when operating from batteries.  

www.icomamerica.com/products/amateur/706mkIIg/
www.icomamerica.com/products/amateur/706mkIIg/specs.asp

www.eham.net/reviews/detail/63

Originally Posted By Black-Four: What equipment is required for Echolink?

a PC, an internet connection, a microphone, and a speaker.  

Originally Posted By Black-Four: I really don't want to keep upgrading equipment if I can help it.  Maybe the wife won't get too angry if I can get set up once and be pretty well done with buying equipment.  I told her that I only wanted a base station for the house, but you know how that goes.

icom 706 MkIIG.  then sneak a $140 2M mobile into the truck a few months later.  
www.gigaparts.com/store.php?action=profile&flash=1&sku=zic-706mkiig


ar-jedi

Great!  Thanks for the info.

jedi - that's kinda sorta what I had in mind.  Let her cool off a little and then.....

Whoa.. Where did that come from?

HE  HE  HE ! !  

Originally Posted By Black-Four: What equipment is required for Echolink?  This sounds like it might be interesting.

Since this has been answered I'll just add this...Last night my brother and I were talking between FL and CT and couldn't help but laugh about something. We were both having flashbacks to when we did the very same thing sans ham license over 10 years ago using a dial-up connection and internet phone. I don't see too much point in the PC-to-PC aspect of it. However, I definitely see the benefit to being on the road and being able to hit a repeater with my radio and still be able to hit him up there. Of course, having said that, I did have a nice little QSO with someone else on the repeater up there.

First of all, THanks to everyone for the help.

Now, More reading and looking leads to more questions.

I guess the wallet kind of  settles the radio question.  The FT875D is more in my price range.  Since you know that I intend to use this as my only base radio forever, (yea right, you know what they say about the best laid plans etc...), What recommendations for an antenna setup do you recommend.  Something that will serve me from now until I get way to big for my britches.

I live in a depression that is about 95 ft below the road surface on the East and South, ground level to the North and slightly above ground level to the West for about three miles and then the ground goes up about 50 ft.

Am I correct that I need to get my antenna(s) at least 100 ft. AGL at my location in order to expect decent coverage?

What type of antenna should I start out with for 6M, 2M, and 70CM?  If I get one of the antenna tuners will one antenna work in this situation?  If so, what tuner should I get and should I go ahead and get an antenna splitter right away and have it ready when I can use the other bands?

Also how about a power supply?  I guess I need one of them as well as a microphone and an external speaker too.

Phew, methinks this could get a trifle expensive right off the bat, but maybe it is more economical in the long run to do it right the first time.

Thanks again for all of the assistance.

B-4

Originally Posted By Black-Four: First of all, THanks to everyone for the help. Now, More reading and looking leads to more questions. I guess the wallet kind of  settles the radio question.  The FT875D is more in my price range.  Since you know that I intend to use this as my only base radio forever, (yea right, you know what they say about the best laid plans etc...), What recommendations for an antenna setup do you recommend.  Something that will serve me from now until I get way to big for my britches. I live in a depression that is about 95 ft below the road surface on the East and South, ground level to the North and slightly above ground level to the West for about three miles and then the ground goes up about 50 ft. Am I correct that I need to get my antenna(s) at least 100 ft. AGL at my location in order to expect decent coverage? What type of antenna should I start out with for 6M, 2M, and 70CM?  If I get one of the antenna tuners will one antenna work in this situation?  If so, what tuner should I get and should I go ahead and get an antenna splitter right away and have it ready when I can use the other bands? Also how about a power supply?  I guess I need one of them as well as a microphone and an external speaker too. Phew, methinks this could get a trifle expensive right off the bat, but maybe it is more economical in the long run to do it right the first time. Thanks again for all of the assistance. B-4

There are triband 440/2/6m antennas available that do not need a tuner, the FT857D has two ant connections one for UHF/VHF & one for 6 & HF. You can get aMFJ 4125 power supply for about $100.  LDG makes several inexspensive tuners for HF. and you can get a Quality multi band G5RV wire antenna for all the HF bands for $50 www.antennasmore.com. Here is a site www.RFfun.com that has a lot of info if you browse through it. You will need to get your UHF/VHF antennas above ground level or you wont be able to send or recieve very well. Just remember also that the longer the run from your shack to your antenna the more loss you will have on UHF and VHF through the Coax cable. HF is not as critical. The best thing that you could do is try and find a tall TV tower that is no longer being used and get that up close to your shack.
also try and find hams inyour area they might be able to help you out finding used equiptment. Good luck and it's ok to do things in steps thats how most of us got it done.  

Great Info.  Thanks again.

I'm heading to that site now.

B-4

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield: Originally Posted By Black-Four: What recommendations for an antenna setup do you recommend.  Something that will serve me from now until I get way to big for my britches. get a Quality multi band G5RV wire antenna for all the HF bands

+1M on the G5RV.

here is the one to get:
ebay link

reviews and more info:
www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2202

i have this antenna strung up between two trees, only about 20' high, and it works great.
it is extraordinarily constructed, top quality heavy duty parts everywhere right down to the silver/teflon PL259 connector.


ar-jedi