I got an interesting email this week, with a more interesting letter in the mail, from my local power company,
that I thought I'd share -- I suspect more power companies may be doing this after Hawaii's incident.

The gist of the email was that if there's high winds they're going to kill our power to prevent it from starting wildfires.

The email left out a lot of details that were in the fine print of a follow up letter. In that letter was this
(emphasis added)



I've dealt with power getting killed during wildfires, but this is new, and the duration they're giving is
well beyond typical outages here. In my area backup generators are the norm, but few are going to be
set up for fuel for a minimum of 20 hours. The other thing is that means any wildfire mitigation systems
will need to be 100% independent of the grid here -- a good idea anyway, but mandatory now that they'll
proactively kill power. Another issue is the majority of homes and cabins here are unattended, so they're
going to be tripping off a bunch of unattended backup generators during peak wildfire seasons, and I wonder
if this is going to backfire with rat's nests and what have you inside generators catching fire with the worst
possible timing.

We'll see how it goes but where I am, realistically I could see this getting activated multiple times a month from
April-July or so.

Looks like an upgrade to the home power system (or just flat out going off grid) may be in order.

Whole house generators will be the new rich vs poor comparison.

When people started suing power companies after wildfires they took the only logical step. Turn off the power. So don’t blame the power companies. Blame lawyers and folks out looking for an undeserved payday.

After PG&E got penalized hundreds of millions of dollars for causing wildfires (and a $13.5-billion settlement for fire victims in 2019) power companies are going to try to limit their risk. High winds, high temperatures, low humidity in the forecast, enjoy your blackouts.

So both AZ and CO are doing this now?
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Denver-Boulder-etc-Power-being-SHUT-OFF-due-to-high-winds-for-21-hours/5-2717845/

Xcel Energy operates in both states. Friggin' mine too and we are on it, no warnings as yet here though despite some horrendous wind today.

Just FYI, the notice I mentioned was from Arizona Public Service (APS), which is owned by Pinnacle West and doesn't have any connection to Xcel,
so they're doing this independent of each other.

The "grid" whether that be electric, gas or water...aint what it used to be.

Texas '21 opened my eyes and that event was just scratching surface once you start looking around.

Dont count on "the grid" its over subscribed, under maintained, and not really redundant much any more.
And yes, "they" will turn it off on you whenever.

Reasons to be off the grid are getting greater.
Solar, Generator, batteries..

There’s been reports here in Canada of peoples half sawing transformer poles so that a high wind will topple them.

Convenient thing that. Suspect it’s out of the same playbook.

Looks like it’s a forest fire caused by power. Blamed on climate change, etc

Also another issue to be considered….natural gas used to be considered to be the most reliable utility. However today a lot of natural gas systems are running at or near their max capacity when things are ok. Now, add in a deep cold snap and there isn’t enough capacity to keep up with demand.

Natural gas backup generators are great until there isn’t enough capacity left to run them.

Generators are a must have these days. I have 2. One I back feed through a 220 plug. The other Is for may camper but can be used for additional power for the house. Both are 30 amp. Keep 25 gallons of gas on standby and never lets them get low. Been through to many weather related power outages so am prepared. Am considering a solar generator to add to emergency power.

Generator or solar + batteries.

But the companies do need money to make expensive upgrades. Many power poles are decades old. They are expensive to replace with wood much less something stronger. So, they replace as needed. They could upgrade the entire power lines and poles but our power bills would easily double or triple or more. Also, the electrical infrastructure in rural areas wasn't (and probably still isn’t) financially viable. That’s why taxpayers funded the rural electrification. It’s expensive to maintain and if it was to be substantially upgraded, either the taxpayers will pay and/or the subscribers will pay. Either way, we will all pay.

The need to shut down power is far more common out west with more and more people living in hot and dry tinderbox conditions compared to areas that get lots of rain.  You can’t compare green areas on the east coast with dry areas of the west. Add high straight line winds and you have a recipe for fires. Wasn’t a big deal many years ago but with homes built in fire zones, it is now. Add environmentalists refusal to clear brush or to allow prescribed burns and you have a man made disaster. Power companies are smart to shut down power in these types of conditions and should be applauded for taking proactive steps to prevent power line caused fires.

Comparing power companies shutting down power for the public’s safety to Nazis exterminating people is absurd. I’m not aware of politicians passing laws to mandate power line shutdowns. It’s power companies taking proactive steps to prevent fires. Sounds good to me. If people have medical issues that mandate electricity to sustain life, then they would be wise to ensure they can self generate the power they need to sustain their lives. Personal responsibility should be a thing and it’s not the power companies job nor the politicians job to handle personal responsibility. The power companies are telling people “this is what we will be doing”. I’d much rather find out well in advance so I can plan instead of it happening without warning.

Seems the answer (and yes, it too has problems) is to put the system under ground.  

Pros
No poles to rot, vandalize, or be part of vehicle accidents
No hooks to maintain where there is limited access

Cons
Harder to find electrical damage in lines
There is a lot of stuff buried on right of ways

Generally I would agree with you but in my area, where they have subdivisions with underground power lines, construction crews still seem to manage to hit gas lines and power lines when doing work. And, that’s WITH calling the local utility marking services.

I don’t think you’ll ever get away from above ground transmission lines. Also, it may vary but in my area, 240v lines have to be buried at 30 inches (if I remember correctly) but high voltage lines (7000v?)  have to be buried at 48 inches. That could be a real problem in some areas with shallow rocks.

I have dealt with above ground power lines to the house issues so when I built my current and last houses, I did all underground power lines. But, they come from a transformer on an above ground line.

Sounds like a smart move even before the lawsuits.  Why dies it take 20+ hours to turn back on though?  Don't they know when a line is down and where?

Old infrustructure + rapid cold start = a lot of burnt up hardware (which may take way more than 20hrs to fix)

This seems like a way to justify dangerously negligent maintenance.  (thus lowering costs and giving the executives bonuses, while degrading the service to the customer)

I seem to remember decades and decades where anything short of a tornado or hurricane didn't cause any problems at all.

If they trimmed trees to the proper distance from powerlines like they did for decades, shuttting off the electricity preemptively isn't needed at all.

I don’t know for sure since that’s not my area of expertise but I suspect they have to inspect the lines in the affected areas to make sure they don’t have any downed lines that no one knows about.

One area of concern is that power companies aren't always fiscally responsible in their decisions.   In my AO the local power company has a number of programs where they PAY households/customers/companies to use less power.   That way they can go longer without upgrading capacity.   The company that I work for has received at least one six-figure check out of that program.   The irony is that it helped us pay for upgrades that we were already budgeting as part of our technology upgrade and maintenance programs.   Without studying their programs myself, this seems like it could be an unfortunate short-sighted solution that will make the eventual electrical grid upgrades even harder to pay for.

Put in your own power system and remove your grid reliance. Solar is cheaper than ever, batteries far more affordable than they used to be. For not much more than the cost of an installed propane home generator you can negate your power bill, not be reliant on the grid and run a smaller generator in hybrid with your solar batteries to more fuel efficiently back your home up in times of extended adverse weather.

It takes some personal work, but IMO it's well worth it.
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I have enough panels that I'm getting back to 100% batteries on most cloudy days. Hopefully I can add another 30kwh of batteries by winter.

I've done 3 installs so far, each progressively bigger, but all were 100% off grid so I didn't have to worry about
utility stuff. I do plan on a whole house system but I'm going to have to figure out a way to partition the work
for a real electrician. I'm also not certain how to do the panel mounting -- I have a R-panel roof at a 10/12 slope,
and I don't think I can easily do those pretty mounts like you have with all the panels abutting each other.

I'm hoping I can find some kind of steel cabinet to mount all the inverter/battery stuff outside next to the garage,
since it's a small garage and I really can't afford to lose the space. At least I can access the roof, on the main house the
roof is SIP and there's no way I'm touching that.

I didn't put mine on the roof, instead I made lifted solar racks I can park my vehicles under. I uses 2x10's for the span with RSS bolts holding 2x4's down to the 2x10's and the panels are bolted to the 2x4's. I've seen people use much lighter wooden racks, but I like to build a little heavier than required.

There are some factory cabinets for batteries and inverters.  I made a small addition to my house for them as I was also short on space. I plan to add another freezer and more food storage in it to go along with the batteries and inverters.

I can't sell to the grid, but I do receive power from the grid if I need it. Locally I would have to pay for an engineer to certify my system and they would limit the size of my array based upon previous electrical useage. They're willing to buy some power but don't want to buy a lot. Since I'm more interested in off grid capability I didn't want to be limited by their sizing restrictions.

In the future I plan to add a third inverter, 30kwh more of batteries and probably 5 to 7kwh more of panels. That will help quite a bit for winter heating performance and extended cloudy periods. If I turned my propane heaters on I could easily get by with the 15.4kwh of panels I currently have. But I don't like being reliant on propane deliveries, so my goal is more panels, more batteries and some more efficient heat pumps. If I had land with trees I would probably just add a wood stove.

ETA: If you plan to roof mount on R panel, I'm pretty sure there are some mounts designed for R panel mounting. I would probably go that route.

Yep, when I rolled into Eureka in 2019, all power there had been cut to the entire city and surrounding area.   It was fun trying to find some gas.   Not a single home or business had thought to invest in a generator, even though the rolling blackouts had been forewarned for some time.

And just wait 'til the lefties get more EVs draining the already-fragile grid.

Yeah, in much of NH, you'd have to blast many of those trenches.   Granite State; between a rock and a hard (tree).   NH is also 80-85% forested, so trees coming down on lines is the big issue here.

looks awesome!  

95mph straight line winds TWICE in january trashed my solar panels so i bought new ones and mounted them on 6x6 posts with 2x12s.  i doubled the number of mppts and will double the panels soon.
i'm also halfway through upgrading my battery from 12kw to 72kw.     been trying to top balance 80x EVE 280k lifepo cells since early march.

Thanks! That's some nasty wind. Hopefully your new array will take future wind without problems.

Which batteries are you putting in? 72kw is a pretty nice sized bank! I'm having good success with my Eg4 batteries, they're communicating nicely with my inverters. I normally see 40% of my battery get used on a typical night.

Are you ok?  Seriously.  I've been on this site for a long time and have read your posts for a long time and you've always been one of the most reasonable people on this forum.  Over the past few months I have noticed a serious deterioration in your posts.  Posts that are hard to follow and sound very bitter and angry.  I don't know what's going on in your life and unless you choose to share, it's none of my business but perhaps there's something going on in your life you need to get resolved.  When someone goes from normally rational to irrational, it tends to suggest there is something serious going on in that person's life that is causing undue stress.  If so, I wish you well and hope you can get it under control.  

To address your post specifically.....you are confusing government regulations with government control.  The various government entities (federal, state, and local) in the US, by in large, do not control the electric companies.  The federal government regulates the interstate electric transmission lines.  The states have different methods of regulating the power companies.  Some are local power companies regulated by city government.  Some are regulated by the states.  Some are deregulated.  Both regulation and deregulation of electric utilities have their positives and their negatives.  But, the primary purpose of government regulation of electric utilities is to control prices for people who can't choose to buy from the place with the best price....given the nature of electric supply.  The government does NOT control maintenance or upkeep.  The various utilities WILL apply for state and federal grants and loans to maintain infrastructure but they are not mandated to do so.  The maintenance and upkeep is primarily funded by the utility.  There is not an unlimited pot of money for maintenance and upkeep.  So, they always have to prioritize what projects come first.  Most power companies DO trim and maintain the area around their lines but they will never be 100% perfect.  

In the medical world, there is a concept called "triage".  In triage, decisions are made about who needs care the most and patient care is stacked in order of priority.  A lesser known portion of triage happens in mass casualty events.  Doctors assess the patients and decide who they can definitely save and those who they may not be able to save.  Those who they can save, they work on.  Those who they may not be able to save, they don't work on and then they die.  Some of them might have been saveable if they had more resources...but they don't.  They have to set priorities of work.  It sucks.  That's the way it is and will always be.  

Wildfires can happen everywhere but they are FAR worse out west than in eastern states.  I've lived in both places and hands down, in the dry west fires are FAR FAR worse then you will ever seen in a wetter state like TN.  In 2022, TN saw 1225 wildfires with 15,059 acres burnt.  By comparison, WA had 1491 fires and 173,659 acres burnt.  NM had 748 fires and 859,906 acres burnt.  Link Wildfires are a FAR more common and a worse issue in the west than in the east.  The western portion of the US burns EVERY year...some years more acreage than others and some areas are worse for fires than others......but still a huge amount of the west US burns every year.  

Clearly the west has more and worse fires and many more caused by electric lines than the east.  But, as the utilities are getting hit with huge fines, penalties, and lawsuits due to power line caused fires, they will LOGICALLY seek to protect their assets by doing the only thing that has a high probability of preventing fires.....cutting off the power during periods of high wind.  They have no choice.  They do NOT want to keep getting blamed for causing fires. So, it only makes logical sense for them to shut down the power.  Saving a few people here and there who need power to run essential medical devices is LESS important than preventing mass deaths.  Decisions have to be made and sometime some of those decisions are hard ones.  Doesn't matter what decision you or I make, some will like it and some will hate it.  But, it's still a necessary decision to make.  

We can lay blame wherever we want to but in the end, decisions have been made that the best decision to save the most people is to cut power when the winds get high.  Sounds very smart to me.  Potentially save lots of lives and even property and if a few people die due to lack of medical devices, so be it.  Better to save many than to just save a few.  Sucks but that's the way it is.  That's the way it will always be.  

The OP posted an issue that is affecting him and will likely affect other places as well.  The Gatlinburg fire wasn't caused by electric lines.  But, MANY fires out west ARE caused by electric lines.  The Camp Fire in CA in 2018 was caused by electric lines and resulted in 85 deaths and 11,000 homes destroyed.  The Gatlinburg fire in 2016 caused 14 deaths and 2500 homes destroyed but wasn't caused by electric lines.  So, it only makes logical sense that power companies out west must take efforts to reduce the risk of power line caused fires and should be applauded for their plans.  People who live out west and need life preserving, electrically powered devices need to take personal responsibility for themselves and ensure they have a way to provide power during periods when the power is shut down just like people in hurricane and tornado prone areas need to as well.  It's part of modern living. Since we are all about being prepared on this forum, it makes sense to know upcoming potential issues and to prepare for them.  Arizona has traditionally been a state that doesn't face many natural disasters.  But, this is clearly an issue anyone who lives in AZ (and other western states) needs to be aware of and to prepare for.  I'm glad the OP posted it for those who need to prepare.

Ive got almost 40kwh of batteries.  I am looking at the cybertruck with home power sharing.  That another 120kwh potential source to my home grid, and it moves.

Yea, it’s not live yet.  I do not see why it would not be.