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Posted: 7/19/2020 9:55:11 AM EDT
I am getting my son a Ruger American Predator for his first deer rifle. He is left handed, so choices for caliber are .243, 7mm-08, .308, 6.5 Creedmore.
Most shot will be 40-100 yards, on very rare occasions there might be a shot out to 200 yds. He has shot some 22, 12 gauge for turkey, a round of sporting clays with a 12, M1 carbine, Garand, so I am not too concerned about recoil. I reload, so likely would make some reduced or lower loads at first for practice. 243 is out - I think its too light. I just do not like the caliber. Any thoughts on choosing one of the remaining choices? 7mm-08 I have reloading in a TC encore, like the round, have some bullets for it. .308 I have little experience with, I know its versatile. 6.5 seems interesting for longer range shooting, giving him a reason to shoot it at the range - I may buy a second rifle for myself in this caliber. |
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Posted: 7/19/2020 9:58:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: w33b8t1]
[#1]
Any of them. 200 yards is point blank for just about anything.
of there is not other agenda. I would just get something in a cartridge you already own. ETA: 243 is fine for just about anything. I've elk hunted with guys using one. |
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Posted: 7/19/2020 10:03:26 AM EDT
[#2]
6.5 Creedmore! My teenaged son loves his RAP and has hit 10" steel at 400 yds with his, in addition to harvesting mule deer, auodad and hogs.
6.5 Creedmore is a great, flat shooting round  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/19/2020 10:05:09 AM EDT
[#3]
I'd go with 7mm-08, since you already reload that.
Honestly, there's not that much difference between 243 7-08 and 308 in terms of their ability to make a clean kill. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2020 10:31:29 AM EDT
[#4]
There is subsonic 308 ammo which may be suitable to learn off of before using full power 308.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2020 11:04:36 AM EDT
[#5]
In this order:
.308 7mm-08 6.5CM Reasons: ammo availability, cost, popularity, versatility, commonality w/your other firearms. But any will work just fine. |
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Posted: 7/19/2020 12:01:22 PM EDT
[#6]
I know that you nixed .243 out. But my son started at age 12 with a .243 and killed a deer every year with it, up until he graduated to a bigger gun at age 17.
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Posted: 7/19/2020 12:07:02 PM EDT
[#7]
6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 (only because you load for it already)
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USA
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Posted: 7/19/2020 4:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LPGBlock]
[#8]
.308 for the first rifle, 6.5 Creedmore later down the line if he wants.
.308 is wayy more popular so ammo selection and availability are on 308's size. 6.5 is still niche, but it has expanded a lot in recent years, still not as popular as 308. Edit: OP make a poll... |
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Posted: 7/19/2020 5:34:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LPGBlock: .308 for the first rifle, 6.5 Creedmore later down the line if he wants. .308 is wayy more popular so ammo selection and availability are on 308's size. 6.5 is still niche, but it has expanded a lot in recent years, still not as popular as 308. Edit: OP make a poll... Op reloads. 308 is more common, but likely not overly relevant in this case. Less recoil is a good thing for new shooters. If OP is leaning towards a new 6.5 for himself, then maybe make it a thing and get 6.5s together. |
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Posted: 7/19/2020 10:00:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By penrod72: 243 is out - I think its too light. For deer? 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2020 9:13:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By penrod72: 243 is out - I think its too light. I would rethink that. General rule is you want 1,000 ft-lb of energy to drop a deer. There are 243 loads that are 1,000 ft-lb at 400 yards. Depending on the barrel length/velocity it is easily a 500 yard deer round. It shoots flat and is really versatile. The Ruger American Predator also has a 1:9" twist so you can use bullets above 100gr. The cool thing is the wide range of loads available for it, too. You can jump up to 115 grains for deer, then drop all the way down to 55 grains for varmints. It's all about shot placement. 243 has enough hitting power to drop a deer at 400 yards if you do your part. If not 243 then I'd go with 6.5 Creedmoor. I love the Creedmoor, but there is nothing wrong with the .243 and I think you're underestimating it a lot thinking it is too light. |
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Posted: 7/21/2020 3:10:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Literally all of them are proven performers.
You already stock 7mm, so sounds like a done deal to me. Those loads ought to shoot well enough out of any properly functioning rifle to take deer at 200yds. If he will take 12ga turkey loads, he can handle magnum rifles, you're looking at regular rifle. I can say that in the same rifle, 6.5 has considerably less recoil than 308. 308 and 6.5 are probably the cheapest to buy factory ammo for, 308 and 243 are the most likely to be found on the shelf IME. Since you load, it doesn't really matter. Consider teaching the kid to shoot right handed. I'm a lefty and already tired of this shit in my mid 20s. If the gun is righty specific, then I'm a righty. If he starts now, it'll be easier in the long run. Regular bows, regular bolt guns, etc. |
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Posted: 7/21/2020 10:53:05 PM EDT
[#13]
I know logically 243 is not too light, but I have had some less than ideal 250 savage results, and 243 is about the same. No doubt both will kill deer with no issue - there are spots where we hunt where we need them to go down faster than they have been with < 100 grain bullets, which is around where I think 243 may be best.
I think I may assign him the project of researching all the calibers mentioned and picking one - none of them will be wrong, although I like the 308 and 7-08 if we ever go out West for bigger deer and elk (not ever going to happen, but it could...). Then he is learning something about what he is doing and making his own choice. Thanks to all for the input. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2020 11:04:09 PM EDT
[#14]
My vote is the 6.5mm
I've got. .308. Used to for years and like it. However, in a light rifle suitable for a young hunter, recoil can be quite sharp. It's not ideal The 7mm-08 is fantastic. However, recoil wise, its recoil is nearly that of the 308. The 243 is light... quite capable. However, as you note, the caliber IS light. The 6.5 is a compromise, but it is one that works. It uses a bullet that is substantially heavier than the 243, with better sectional density. Its a far better killer. The Creedmoor's recoil is also more like a 243 than a 308... its mild and very tolerable. to my mind, its the best of the 243 and the best of the 308... The real kicker is the accuracy. Yeah, count me a fan. If this was 1990, I'd be recommending .260 Rem. This isn't 1990, so the 6.5 Creedmoor is an obvious winner. |
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Posted: 7/22/2020 12:46:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By penrod72: I know logically 243 is not too light, but I have had some less than ideal 250 savage results, and 243 is about the same. No doubt both will kill deer with no issue - there are spots where we hunt where we need them to go down faster than they have been with < 100 grain bullets, which is around where I think 243 may be best. I think I may assign him the project of researching all the calibers mentioned and picking one - none of them will be wrong, although I like the 308 and 7-08 if we ever go out West for bigger deer and elk (not ever going to happen, but it could...). Then he is learning something about what he is doing and making his own choice. Thanks to all for the input. If you don't want 243 then I'd jump to 6.5 Creedmoor like frozenny mentioned. It's a great compromise. The ammo isn't very expensive (even quality match ammo), it is stupid accurate, and like others have said the recoil is very mild. The round has pretty much made me disinterested in shooting the magnum stuff that I previously enjoyed like 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua, etc. It is such a good round and is super versatile like 243, but with a way better selection of match ammo. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/22/2020 3:17:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OzarkMtn99]
[#16]
What cartridge does your son shoot the best and what rifle fits him the best? The rifle should not be uncomfortable in either fit or recoil. You can pick any of the cartridges you mentioned and they will work fine for deer as long as the hunter can shoot it well.
Whatever you look at, highly consider paying a little extra for a stainless steel rifle/synthetic stock (a little easier to maintain) and a quality scope, base, and rings. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2020 3:25:39 PM EDT
[#17]
I wouldn’t discount .243 for what the rifle would be doing, as many are extremely successful with it. On the other hand, .308 and 6.5 ammo is usually the cheapest
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USA
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Posted: 7/22/2020 4:27:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OverScoped: I'd go with 7mm-08, since you already reload that. Honestly, there's not that much difference between 243 7-08 and 308 in terms of their ability to make a clean kill. This would be my advice too. I killed some deer with 140 grain ballistic tips. When they’re gone I will go bonded or all copper just to cut down the shrapnel effect of the ballistic tip. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2020 12:22:39 AM EDT
[#19]
6.5, 7mm-08 or .308 are all great choices.
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Posted: 7/25/2020 12:58:36 AM EDT
[#20]
6.5 master race checking in. but its more than you need. 1200 yard hits are doable.
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Posted: 7/26/2020 8:45:10 AM EDT
[#21]
I’d go with the 7mm-08 since you already load for it. Its what I deer hunt with. Really you can’t go wrong with any of the calibers you listed.
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Posted: 7/27/2020 3:53:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Do we know how old this son is? There's a whole lot of difference between a good cartridge for a 100# 12 year old and one for a 250 pound 17 year old.
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Posted: 7/28/2020 10:47:18 PM EDT
[#23]
I've killed deer with .223, 5.45x39, .308, and .270.
My son killed his first deer with a .30-06. Every deer he's killed since then was with his .243 from 50 to 200 yards. Within 100 yards I don't believe there's any difference, so long as you take an ethical shot. Beyond 100 yards I don't believe there's a dime's worth of difference between .243, .270, .308, or .30-06, except recoil and trajectory. The killing efficiency on deer seems the same to me. I strongly recommend the .243 Winchester because of the lighter recoil, flat trajectory, effectiveness, ammunition availability, and versatility. |
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Posted: 7/28/2020 11:38:43 PM EDT
[#24]
.223; its what I started my daughters on.
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Posted: 7/29/2020 10:29:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yankee43: I've killed deer with .223, 5.45x39, .308, and .270. My son killed his first deer with a .30-06. Every deer he's killed since then was with his .243 from 50 to 200 yards. Within 100 yards I don't believe there's any difference, so long as you take an ethical shot. Beyond 100 yards I don't believe there's a dime's worth of difference between .243, .270, .308, or .30-06, except recoil and trajectory. The killing efficiency on deer seems the same to me. I strongly recommend the .243 Winchester because of the lighter recoil, flat trajectory, effectiveness, ammunition availability, and versatility. I agree, except that once you push past 300 yards the 243 starts to peter out a bit compared to the others. |
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Posted: 7/29/2020 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Have used .243 on caribou with very good success and even moose.
It is a favorite for people hunting walrus. |
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Posted: 7/29/2020 8:48:11 PM EDT
[#27]
son is 14, 5'7 130 lbs., athletic hockey player.
We are going 6.5 creedmore, ordering soon - like Monday or before! |
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Posted: 7/30/2020 6:29:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By penrod72: son is 14, 5'7 130 lbs., athletic hockey player. We are going 6.5 creedmore, ordering soon - like Monday or before! 
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Posted: 7/30/2020 7:15:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Both of my kids hunt with 7mm-08 and have been since they were 12. Great caliber and for smaller or recoil sensitive kids reduced recoil loads are great.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 8/2/2020 9:54:52 PM EDT
[#30]
7-08 since you already load for it, otherwise, 6.5 CM. Ballistically pretty similar and 6.5 is more popular than ever so there's so many factory options and theres less recoil than .308
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Posted: 8/4/2020 9:17:20 PM EDT
[#31]
I would reconsider 243. I have seen people use it for moose or elk. It’s got enough juice to do the job
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Posted: 8/7/2020 9:39:33 PM EDT
[#32]
I ordered the Creedmore, hoping it is at the FFL Monday or Tuesday. I am not sure he is going to really be into deer hunting (although he really took to turkey hunting this Spring). If it doesn't work out, I figure either he or I will have a fun target type rifle for ringing steel out to a couple hundred yards.
I just could not get behind the 243 - we have a few places where if a deer runs across the property boundary the neighboring landowner is a dick. Have had a few do that with a 250 Savage, and I am not going to have my kid lose his first deer over something like that. I think they are all capable cartridges for sure. Thanks for the input, and I will post some pics when its here. |
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Posted: 8/8/2020 4:12:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By penrod72: I ordered the Creedmore, hoping it is at the FFL Monday or Tuesday. I am not sure he is going to really be into deer hunting (although he really took to turkey hunting this Spring). If it doesn't work out, I figure either he or I will have a fun target type rifle for ringing steel out to a couple hundred yards. I just could not get behind the 243 - we have a few places where if a deer runs across the property boundary the neighboring landowner is a dick. Have had a few do that with a 250 Savage, and I am not going to have my kid lose his first deer over something like that. I think they are all capable cartridges for sure. Thanks for the input, and I will post some pics when its here. That's nice, but which Creedmoor did you get!? We need answers! Make/model? 6.5 is definitely a good choice these days. Looks like it's also one of the "panic proof" calibers for *now*. Did you get dies and some supplies on order? |
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Posted: 8/8/2020 11:10:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Ruger American Predator - left hand.
Looking for dies and projectiles. Can't believe I am typing this - the Gander Outdoors near me has decent price on 50 rounds of blasting ammo - good enough to start with and make some empty brass. Need to order rings (although I think I have some here somewhere) Going to start off with a 2-7 variable for now - I know its under magnified for the cartridge, but most shots will be less than 100 yards while hunting. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/8/2020 11:14:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Minuteman556]
[#35]
You can play phsy-ops games with 308.
"Okay son, this is a 308. It's what snipers use in the military." Should go far in building his willingness and confidence. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 7:41:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By penrod72: Ruger American Predator - left hand. Looking for dies and projectiles. Can't believe I am typing this - the Gander Outdoors near me has decent price on 50 rounds of blasting ammo - good enough to start with and make some empty brass. Need to order rings (although I think I have some here somewhere) Going to start off with a 2-7 variable for now - I know its under magnified for the cartridge, but most shots will be less than 100 yards while hunting. Good choice for a starter rifle. A decent 2-7 should get him out to 400 easily, and of course still be fine for the expected close shots. |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 7:07:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RumbleTruck]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FritzTKatt: Good choice for a starter rifle. A decent 2-7 should get him out to 400 easily, and of course still be fine for the expected close shots. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FritzTKatt: Originally Posted By penrod72: Ruger American Predator - left hand. Looking for dies and projectiles. Can't believe I am typing this - the Gander Outdoors near me has decent price on 50 rounds of blasting ammo - good enough to start with and make some empty brass. Need to order rings (although I think I have some here somewhere) Going to start off with a 2-7 variable for now - I know its under magnified for the cartridge, but most shots will be less than 100 yards while hunting. Good choice for a starter rifle. A decent 2-7 should get him out to 400 easily, and of course still be fine for the expected close shots. 2x7 out to 400 yds! Yikes...although my eyes aren't what they used to be. My son is using this Vortex Viper HS 4x16x44 on his 6.5 Predator https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-viper-hs-4-16x44-riflescope.html?vortex_reticle=978 Its made in the Philippines |
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Posted: 8/11/2020 7:44:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ogive: I know that you nixed .243 out. But my son started at age 12 with a .243 and killed a deer every year with it, up until he graduated to a bigger gun at age 17. My son had a 6mm Remington and killed a pile of deer. I hand load Nosler Partitions. He still hunts with it years later. |
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Posted: 8/14/2020 7:54:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Get call from FFL yesterday afternoon, rifle is in, make appt to pick it up today at 3:30.
Get there at 3:34, he says "we have a little problem..." ATF NICS system is down, they sent him an email at 3:17. Hoping we can get it sorted tomorrow - its only about 25 minutes from home. |
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Posted: 8/15/2020 6:00:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Good choice. 6.5 is extremely mild shooting and 6.5 has taken countless animals. Use a good hunting bullet and you'll be GTG.
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Posted: 8/16/2020 10:59:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Good choice. 6.5 is extremely mild shooting and 6.5 has taken countless animals. Use a good hunting bullet and you'll be GTG. It really is amazing how soft 6.5. I've shot it head to head with 308 as my neighbor bought a b14hmr in 6.5 after shooting mine in 308. He got a nearly identical brake as my ASR, just without the silencer mount stuff, same size scope. That 6.5 probably has half the felt recoil. The b14hmr with a brake is quite a soft shooter already having a big squishy recoil pad and as we have them equipped around around 13lbs, nearly 14 when I mount my omega 300. It is quite an awesome cartridge. His axis in 6.5 shoots pretty soft compared to my brother's savage 16 in 308 as well. I've had 10 year olds shooting my full power 308 loads off the bipod, prone, and they didn't bitch, but they were also super excited to shoot a "suppressed sniper rifle". They were hitting a 6" steel at 250 no problem. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 8/20/2020 1:29:56 PM EDT
[#42]
7-08 if it were me, I had one years ago and it was very accurate and a breeze to load for, recoil was tolerable, not sure about factory ammo and cost, that might be something to consider if you don’t reload.
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Posted: 8/23/2020 6:20:18 PM EDT
[#43]
After some annoying scope issues, we are somewhat in business after 2 trips to the range.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/23/2020 6:25:13 PM EDT
[#44]
My son doesn't shoot a ton, and almost never centerfire rifle. His consistency is poor, but the rifle is accurate.
 Attached FileShots 1 and 2 at 50 yards about 1/2 inch 3rd shot opened that up to about 6 inches. He shot a few groups like that, with a different round as a flier each time. He needs more practice, and i need reloading dies. Hoping to to have a few hundred rounds downrange before youth season starts. |
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Posted: 8/23/2020 6:32:59 PM EDT
[#45]
I vote 7-08 or 6.5 CM. Both have good bullet options for handloading. Both capable for what you describe for hunting. Personally not a fan of .308 because it's the single round I've struggled with the most from a handloading perspective to create accurate loads for two different rifles. I effectively gave up on .308 as a result.
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Posted: 8/28/2020 9:58:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AL_Safety: I vote 7-08 or 6.5 CM. Both have good bullet options for handloading. Both capable for what you describe for hunting. Personally not a fan of .308 because it's the single round I've struggled with the most from a handloading perspective to create accurate loads for two different rifles. I effectively gave up on .308 as a result. That's a shame, they say 308 is very easy to load for. Lots of data. I've had success with pretty much everything I've been able to stuff into a 308 case. The other day I trickle charged some 175gr SMKs and shot around 1.5" at 200yds, SD of 4 and ES 7 iirc. Group I shot in fluttering cross wind was around 2". The thrown charges were more like 2" without wind and around 15/25 sd/es. Off bipod and rear bag. That's a big boy OP! He should be able to handle any rifle you throw at him! |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 10:05:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OverScoped: I'd go with 7mm-08, since you already reload that. Honestly, there's not that much difference between 243 7-08 and 308 in terms of their ability to make a clean kill. |
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Posted: 9/21/2020 6:14:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Very happy with the creedmore so far. Son needs to work on his shooting, but he is getting better and more confident.
Here is a 100 yard group I shot with reloads. Tip of pilot ball point pen for reference:  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/21/2020 9:24:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By penrod72: Very happy with the creedmore so far. Son needs to work on his shooting, but he is getting better and more confident. Here is a 100 yard group I shot with reloads. Tip of pilot ball point pen for reference: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/33704/IMG_20200920_172056064_jpg-1601755.JPG Nice! 6.5 Creedmore is stupid fun to shoot |
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Posted: 9/21/2020 9:57:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Awesome! I had a Ruger American 6.5 as well. 1/2 MOA right out of the box. Great rifle at an unbeatable price. Recoil is quite tame. Like all things, your son will learn with time. I was a complete retard with guns until 4-5 years ago.
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