So I think I know the answer to this but I want to see if I am thinking correctly. I have access to two 1100 yard ranges. I have a good suppressed 22LR bolt gun with a good FFP mil/mil scope that i have been taking out to 200-300 yards. It has taught me a lot about. I would like to get better at longer ranges with centerfire. Eventually i will get a creedmoor or .308 bolt gun that i can also use hunting. So unfortunately it wont be a heavy barrel long range gun. Probably a Tikka T3x or Howa 1500 with some type of 3-18 or 4-16. But for now i have a 5.56 AR to work with.

This is what i have. It is not a true precision gun but that is not what my goal was. I wanted a 16" that was light enough to carry but about MOA and that is what i got. I have shot a few .75 groups but mostly a little over 1" with AAC 75gr and 77gr. I am sure it would do better with better ammo. But it is basicity a 16" with Rainer lightweight match barrel, Toolcraft bolt, VLTOR upper, centurion rail, Geissele lower, SDE trigger. Basic but good stuff. It now wears a Trijicon Credo.
Usually it is supressed with a Nomad Ti.


One thing that i like about the 5.56 is that ammo is cheap enough that i can shoot a lot which equals more practice. Is it a valid thought process to use this rifle to gain experience shooting out to longer ranges like 400-800 yards or will it be a exercise in futility with the little 5.56? Would i be better of just ditching the 5.56 and concentrate of the bolt gun or will the basics i learn on the AR transfer over well?

Thanks, Honestly most of the .22 shooting i do is about 100-150 yards with CCI standard velocity which runs subsonic for me. A lot of that is shooting gophers which are small moving targets with unknown range ( need to invest in a laser rangfinder). But I have stretched it out closer to 300 yards plinking. We regularly shoot at clays at 200 yrds and plink out past that. My wife is almost better than me. We were plinking at a spray paint can at over 250 yards. She was the one that got the hit. She makes us "shooters" look bad.

OP, you have the potential for learning LR shooting skills better with 5.56 than if you started with a specialty caliber.

* You will have to pay closer attention to wind calls. As a result you will become more aware and better at it. This is the most underrated skill in shooting.

* You can shoot more for the same cost, so you’ll get more experience faster


Reading wind, ranging targets, and shot execution are the 3 pillars of precision long-range shooting and high-performance calibers do absolutely nothing to help any of those 3 things.

Calling wind, trigger manipulation with finger and hand placement,  trigger control with breath and heartbeat,  natural point of aim, how to load a bipod.

Fundamentals are applicable to all rifle platforms.

Would it be worth while to invest in a Grendel upper or barrel? Or other caliber to use his existing lower?

IMO no. Buy Palmetto State Armory's 77 grain match ammo (AAC) and learn your drops and drifts.

This is a lot cheaper than buying into 6.5 Grendel.

6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ARC  and any other AR-15 boutique caliber is expensive, even if you reload.

Personally I’d buy a RAP start with magazine length 75-77bthp match bullets. Stiffen up the stock and get a Harris bench rest bipod. After stiffening the stock I’d free float the barrel and work out to 700-800 yards. If you have the funds I’d recommend a chassis and skip playing with the Tupperware stock. Next I would invest in quality reloading dies. Then work with the 75-80 Hornady ELDM bullets or Sierra Berger or Nosler in the heavy class. These should get you to 1000 yards.

Here is my RAP in a Oryx chassis it’s in 6.5 Grendel. I kinda wish I would have went with the Indian Creek AR magazine model sense I didn’t need the AICS magazine length. But I might pick up another RAP in .223 later and a AR magazine chassis. I love my RPR in .223.  After Rob suggested the.223 for a long range trainer several years ago and I started playing with the longer projectiles. I have come to really like the.223 especially mid range popping steel.


And there’s a picture of it left of my 6.5 Creedmoore.
There’s some of what the .223 can do out of the RPR.
Good luck.

All of this but also some supporting skills like reloading constraints, projectile selection, ballistic calculator etc.  5.56 might be the best way to learn precision riflery.

Back in the day (in the 90s), we shot iron sights out to 500 to qualify with the M-16A2. No problem at all with well used guns and green tip 5.56.  

Why do people say things like this? Weren't the targets like 4' wide and 6' tall?

That target at 500 yards is huge. The aiming black is 4 MOA wide and 8 MOA tall. The 4-ring is an 8 MOA circle and the 3-ring is a 12 MOA circle.

Comparatively, in CMP high power the x-ring is 1 MOA and the 10-ring is 2 MOA. That discipline was shot with iron sights for years.

In a thread about shooting .223 at long range, in the precision rifle forum no less, it seems off topic to reference shooting that is only as precise as a full size torso silhouette at 500 yards.

The Vernier tang site was considered precision for its day. And can still perform as well as very low power or questionable optics. I’ve seen some very good groups posted over the years with the Springfield 03A3 with National match sites as well as the M1A and M14 National Match tuned rifles. And I have been surprised by some of the groups AR15’s with National match tuned rifles.

But back on topic with today’s High BC bullets with very low drag BC’s the .223 is a very capable rifle. I have even killed a few hogs at distance with the 80gr Hornady ELDM that surprised me. The main thing I think you need to look at is how to feed your rifle. The AICS magazine seems to be the best option behind a blind box.

Sometimes you have to look at what actually makes precision other than customization or production. And that is practice. Practice is the key that makes you better whether with a custom rifle or production rifle.