If you were ever in a situation where you witnessed an active shooter, should you intervene? Like some on here, I travel to work every day with gear that in the event I needed it, I would have it.

If you ever heard/saw an active shooter unfold in front of you but were not on the X, should you attempt to intervene? I would like to believe that knowing innocent people were being killed I would do what I could. I guess more importantly, what would it look like? How would you protect yourself from the possibility of being mistaken as the shooter?

I would.  In fact, I’d have a duty to act based on my employer.

I have attended several classes to deal with active shooter response. There are several thought processes how to initiate survive and then survive responding office.  Simplest answer is once you’re done shooting the bad guy, put your gun away and keep a concealed and then surrender to responding officers following all verbal commands.

Having said that, I’m a graduate of several high speed SF shooting school and have numerous combat tour, been shot, worked violent fugitive task forces, SWAT, ect, ect, so my odds are better than average if all things are equal in surviving and prevailing in a gun fight.


18Z50

Thank you for all you do. I understand my capabilities or lack there of in comparison to someone as yourself with a level of training I’m very unlikely to ever obtain.

With that being said, I live in a very rural area with small populations and not an overwhelming police force. What would your point of view be?

I could not live with myself, if I did not try to stop the killer. If he kills me, maybe someone else escaped while I have the attention on me.

If I could break contact, I would. If I had to defend myself, I would. If you are asking if I would defend a bunch of strangers, the answer is "No".

I have spent decades training for self defense. All those people have had the same opportunity. They should use the weapons they brought, and the skills they have perfected, in order to save their own lives. If they fail to do so, well, that ain't my problem, is it? Why should I risk my life, limbs, financial well being, and my freedom for people who thought so little of themselves that they did not take the same self defense steps that I have?

Furthermore, if I were to intervene, and I was stupid enough to stick around, there is a significant chance that a cop would murder me.

No, thanks. No upside for me saving anyone's ass but my own.

I would like to think that if I were in that situation, I'd be able to intervene.

Wow. You are so selfless.

What's more important, your life, or $50? I see that you are willing to lay down your life for random people who won't even remember your name. Would you mind sending me $50?

It completely depends on the situation, who's with me, etc...

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.  --  Albert Einstein

Yes...I think I would have to step up and fight.

Yes.

If I send you $50 will you go away and never come back?

I thought it interesting; I saw a guy the media interviewed this morning, kind of a stocky burly, neck bearder guy, said he heard the shots. He saw where it was coming from, then ran down a lane a slid like a bowling ball and hid in the machine that pulls the pins up.    I am no tough guy now at 60, and with that said, you better bring a gun or a big stick.  But I thought to myself, what a chicken shit.  Pretty sure I wouldn't take that route, but then who really knows until it happens.

Everyone is brave until the cockroach flies.

Not to armchair quarterback the situation, but I'd like to think if I was armed or could get to my firearm and saw someone mowing down people I'd try and stop him, to the best of my ability.

Maybe because you're relatively new you didn't realize this isn't GD and dumb shit like this isn't really welcome

Or maybe you're a loudmouth who likes talking smack to strangers because you don't want to confront your fears or cowardice

Either way grownups are trying to talk here.

I hope any able bodied person would act.

I have taught and supervised thousands of active shooter training scenarios and CWP classes.

Let me just say this. If your gun is in your hand in public, your life is in danger. Prepare and act accordingly. Don’t let your ego get you killed, especially when the police show up. Right? Wrong? Work it out later.

YMMV

I am at an age and place where no fucks are given, so keep that in mind.  I do have some training where I would probably be more capable than the average Joe.  I do not have a firearm at work.  So, if I could get my staff and I to safety by running away I would. If I had to stand and fight, I already have a few improvised weapons ready and have some places where I can position myself where I would have the element of surprise.  The thing that could likely ruin my day is if there were multiple, coordinated, trained shooters working together.  Then I am fucked.

Unless my life or that of a loved one is in immediate danger, I’m probably running.

I carry a pistol pretty much every day and everywhere I go, and I think I have a good bit more training and trigger time than the average Joe. But if I can extract I will.

If the shooter was say 50 yards away and not firing in my direction, I’d probably skedaddle or at least find cover and set up a defensive position. But if it’s closer, within 30 feet of so, it’s either fight or die.

I don't really know what I would do but I would like to think I would intervene.
I find it interesting that some answers are dependent on who is in danger.
I have a Granddaughter and needless to say I would die trying to defend her and I would also die trying to defend someone else’s Granddaughter, son, daughter, mother, father, etc. I simply couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t. I was in the Navy on submarines for 23 years and while I haven’t had bullets shot at me, I believe I have been stress tested sufficiently with the fear of dying a few times to have a good idea of how I would respond.
I think my training and proficiency is adequate.
-Sig Arms Patrol Rifle Instructor/active shooter course after Sandy Hook.
-Sig Arms Shotgun instructor course.
-15 years very active IDPA competition, SSP MA in 2009 and I shoot enough matches now to stay proficient.
-4 years of 3-gun competition (before it died in 2014) and I just started back in 2-gun/PCC/PCSL.

Could you really live with yourself if people were killed and you could have intervened and didn’t?

Humphrey Bogart said it best in Casablanca: I stick my neck out for nobody.

A cynical way to be, but it's a cruel, apathetic world we live in.

Those strangers I died saving aren't going to care that my children are now fatherless.  Sure they'll be thankful, maybe the city will even name a park after me or something. But my kids will have to go on without me to raise them and provide for them.  Not a good tradeoff.

I don't carry a gun and train so I can charge in and be hero for the greater good.  That's why we have police.  I do it strictly to protect me and those close to me.  

And if you choose to engage the bad guy but accidentally hit an innocent, you (or your estate if you died) will get sued, so there's that to think about too. That'll happen regardless of course, but if I can safely leave AND not get sued, that's a little extra incentive.

Some states (PA for one) have a provision in the law that in a self defense situation, the defender is immune from lawsuit for collateral damage...

Decades ago when I got my CCW, the instructor was asked a similar question. His answer was to get yourself out of the danger area. Here’s why:

You don’t know if that guy is an undercover cop in a deal gone bad.  Or it could be another good guy trying to find and shoot the bad guy. Legally, the law in Oklahoma only allows you to shoot to protect family, employees, and a few other specific situations. Of course, if you shot a mass murderer, they would probably not prosecute you.

Got too many kids and a wife at home that live of my back, you're all on your own.  Good luck.

My honest answer is... I don't know.

I have declined to be on our church security team. I told my wife that I carry to defend my life and four others. If I thought for a second any of their lives were in danger, I would intervene.

I would LIKE TO THINK that if it were anyone else and/or we were NOT in danger, I would be a good witness.

I may skin the problem solver and drop baddies Wick-style - OR - look for a sink to rinse out my panties...
Attached File

Depends on the circumstances.  

Relatively simple shot from cover to end the killing in an office?  Perhaps.  Hunt the killer down like John Wick?  Nope.  I'm CERTAIN that my employer would not take care of my family for the rest of their lives if I valiantly gave my live to try and stop a workplace killer.  

Like other posters have said, MY responsibility is to MY family and loved ones.  If I get killed saving a Starbucks, my family will suffer.

My personal exception, if children are at risk, I feel that I would have to try.

I teach a number of self-defense classes, including classes specific to this topic.  Some of the considerations we discuss:

1. Make sure you know and understand what is going on, that it's not a hoax.  You don't want to kill some dumbass kid with an Airsoft gun or setting off firecrackers.  Carefully assess the situation; whether or not it's a hoax should become apparent fairly quickly.

2. Is there anyone here you are personally responsible for?  Family, wife, husband, kids, boyfriend, girlfriend, other friends...if that is the case, your priority should be to get them to safety.  By the time you get out, the event will likely be over, or there will be LE on the scene.  Either way, going back in would not be a good idea at that point.

3. Honestly ask yourself, can you take this on?  Do you have the proper mindset, adequate skills and are you carrying the right gun for the job?  If not, going on the offensive might be a bad choice.  There are multiple cases where armed citizens have been shot and killed by active killers.  

If you have the skills and tools you could make a difference by saving innocent lives - but this is not without extraordinary risk.  Even if you don't have people you are responsible for present, those people are expecting you to come home safe that day.  

It's ultimately a personal decision.