ive recently been asked to run the training and qualification of our security team at my church. 25ish man team in a 800ish member church. we have 2 retired LEOs that run the team but they have asked me to keep everyone qualified at my backyard range.

So what level of qualification would you expect? ill need to approve everyone once a year.

Their skill level varies to novice CCW to LEO/myself who competes in USPSA and have taken several classes from notable trainers.

Honest question for you. Would this open you up to any liability in the event of a shooting incident at your church?
I’m a church security team member and we qualify at a local range with one of their instructors.

https://www.wdam.com/2023/04/05/mbi-jones-co-reserve-deputy-charged-with-murder-rock-church-shooting/

You guys aren’t a police department. Stop running it as such.

Now our team does get sent to training but we do not per say “qual”…

More importantly … what does your state laws work … and secondly … what does your church insurance allow/require …

Will all team members be carrying?
May need to involve insurance if your church has it, as they can nit-pick the particulars.

We are a bigger church and have a "safety" team, and those that carry get yearly qualification, 50rd, 10yd, static, minimum score to carry.
Targets and qualifying firearm SN's are retained for insurance purposes in the event of an incident. I always get full score but that's not saying much.
End of the day, we all know there are only a few of us that would have any business letting rounds loose in a crowded area.

no we have all had background checks and are all covered under the church insurance policy.

Perhaps qual is the wrong word. I need to verify that each member is safe and proficient with their pistol on some level. im trying to determine that level.

Unless you have WRITTEN approval from the churches’ insurance company and pastor for you to conduct such training … there is no way I would do this … even then … I would CREATE an LLC to protect you … any approvals need to be signed and notarized … then you … yourself … well your LLC needs to get an insurance coverage as well … this isn’t a walk in the park.

I know we try to do the right thing but you got to cover you rear too …

I seriously doubt the church's policy covers your verification of random members pistol skills.

I would have your insurance company and an attorney dictate the training requirements of any sort of formal armed security team.

If you don't do that, then, at most, informally recommend everyone gets some sort of instruction somewhere and never bring it up again. But even that could make you liable.

For example, if some trigger happy geezer lets loose and hits some kid, darn straight mom and dad are coming after you too since you said he was gtg.

What you are proposing is a really bad idea.  You 100% need to talk to an attorney.

Every time I reread the OP, it gets worse.

25 random guys and two retired LEOs 'training' in a random backyard.

I mean, what could go wrong?

Our team has been developing for the last 5 years or so.   Team members that chose to carry a firearm qualify annually to the state LEO qualification guidelines.   That was recommened by consultation with an attorney, our insurance company, and local law enforcement.


Additionally we have semi annual training days on the range with NRA certified instructors.

We have guys all over the spectrum too...some of us are very competent and can shoot a clean qual target, and other guys and gals are just learning how to improve their fundamentals an qualify.

I'd say we shoot about 1000 rounds a year as part of our formal work, and many of us shoot significantly more than that on our own.


One thing to note, the odds are significantly lower than you'll be in an armed confrontation than they are that you'll have to deal with other situations.    We usually get about 1 crazy person a month looking to get a hand out of food or money.  Usually have at least 1 minor medical situation every 2-3 months, and deal a lot with just random things like a kid puking on the floor, etc that we'll help out the Ushers with.

A church that size should be able to afford some training from a legitimate firearm instructor.

Our church is 300 people and our team is 12.  We have an annual training budget that we submit to the church.

We do qualify with the same test as the Ohio State Patrol.  But we go way beyond that.

In amongst all the good advice:

After square range training I'd recommend scenarios with a tight crowd of no shoot silhouette targets with one shoot silhouette in the crowd.

But train, don't qualify.

Just about anyone can pass just about any state LEO qual with a basic ability to shoot a pistol. Seems like whatever that is in your state it would be a good place to start. FBI qual is simple and easy. If someone cant pass that I would consider them more of a liability than an asset.

I have seen some serviceable church teams with real security protocols/capabilities in place and ones that are just Bob and Joe carrying their J frames. The good ones do everything they can to stop a problem before it gets in the door through cameras, perimeter/door posts and parking lot coverage. The sketchy ones just think about whipping out their carry piece after the shooting starts.  

To stand up and maintain a real team is no easy thing.

Strategies and Standards for Defensive Handgun Training 2023 Edition is well worth a read.

I've trained Church Security using the NRA Defensive Pistol standards and KR Training’s 3 Seconds or Less Drill (Defensive Pistol Skills Level 2 is a good standard)

Equivalent of USPSA Class C is a good minimum standard.  Studies show that there are diminishing returns after Class C.  That would be equal to Karl Rehn's Defensive Pistol Skills Level 2.  

Paul Howe's CSAT Standards are tougher and better.   Probably the high end of what might be required.

Another standard I have seen is to require security team members to keep 10 out of 10 shots on a silhouette at 15 yards.  Any stray rounds are a fail.

I have been asked multiple times to join our church security team — I have no idea why, I don't tell people I carry.  I have always politely declined.

I will protect my immediate family if they are in danger. I have no interest in getting involved in domestic disputes, custody battles, or homeless in the parking lot — those are the only incidents I remember in the last decade and I'm glad I wasn't involved.

Yes.  At TacCon 2023 there were 400 attendees, instructors, and RSOs from around the country.  Most were capable shooters.  Few were capable fighters.   Once proficiency with firearms is attained, scenario training should be the focus.  

Training for the real fight should be the focus.  Things like verbal judo, tactics, medical, unarmed combatives, OC spray, disarms, and force-on-force.

I understand wanting to know how well your security team can shoot, but the more you become involved in developing the qualification and training people, the more civil liability you will have.  OTOH, if you have prospective participants attend some well known training facility like Gunsite, or Thunder Ranch, and YOU don't have the responsibility of selecting participants, training them, your civil liability will be much reduced.  

You and your church's board of directors need to speak with a liability attorney about how all the liability works.  I used to develop and run training and qualification courses for a LE agency and various CCW courses.  It is VERY important that you understand liability and how it works.

Should just allow carry in church for anyone legally able to do so. Does your church prohibit carry? If so, I would find a new church.  

Depends on the state.
In SC it's prohibited unless expressly granted in writing by whoever is in charge of security.
Doesn't mean that's what actually happens but that's the current law.

A trained security team is better than a sanctuary full of lone rangers.  

Especially if half of them are fudds with a .38 in their pocket.

Our church allows carry and we also have a security team.  The goal of the team is to make sure those people in the sanctuary that are carrying don't have to get involved.   Our job is to address any issues long before they are inside of the main sanctuary.

Few things from a Safety Ministry Coordiantor whose church recently elected to have an armed Safety Team.

After much prayer and consideration, our lead Pastor and church Elders unanimously voted for an armed Safety Team. This really is step one. If your leadership is not united behind such an effort, then your church ought to prayerfully consider this.

Next was the insurance company and formulating the policy. Working with our church attorney and our insurance carrier, we developed a training plan, including both classroom and practical time at the range. In addition to that, we also have a qualification procedure. That procedure includes background checks, validation of State permits, and a live fire qualification among other things. Members that wish to carry must attend classroom, range and live fire qualifying annually. Yes, it needs to be qualification. The church is certifying that members are trained and qualified to carry a firearm while performing Safety Team duties. There is no wiggle room, your either qualified or your not. Our insurance provider has signed off on our policy and has frankly been very supportive of our churches effort to add this to our Safety Team profile.

Our training provider is an NRA certified instructor in both basic pistol and defensive ccw. He is also a certified RSO. We have access to several ranges, each with differing requirements as to insurance coverages held by the church and our instructor. I would consider not providing any training or live fire at your personal range. Range certification is one consideration, also if something goes bad there, even if you have an LLC, you can be held liable. I would try and find a commercial range or club that would work with your group to satisfy your training and shooting requirements.

We also maintain training records, score cards, signed targets, etc., for each qualified member. Another big item our insurance carrier asked to insert in the file, is a document for each individual member, that has some basic personal information, training and qualification dates, and the policy number. All qualified members are listed by name in the policy and have some benefits under the policy. This is huge for the guys on the team and provides some peace if mind should an event happen or if they were injured or killed.

Biggest thing is to take your time setting this up. Partner up with your insurance provider. Your church attorney will also be instrumental in getting the language for everything correct and that your church understands and is following all applicable law.

We should enact laws like that. A few trained people walking around society with guns would be far better than EVERYBODY having the ability to have one. That's just "common sense," Right?

Buddy of mine is head of his church's security team - similar size to OP's. He asked a local prosecutor about requiring some kind of additional training. Prosecutor told him, "if the state of Michigan has already said that they are qualified and competent to carry under the CPL laws, who are you to tell them any different?"

Buddy is a very Christian, pro-rights guy, but like every church security team I've ever seen, there is an unquenchable thirst to control other people.

I made my team pass the Ohio peace officer certification. Most did very well.

And yes- I think making the team members perform to a standard is wise. It’s the same one the bailiff has to pass if we ever go to court, and it’s certainly better than having no standard.

If you're holding them to a standard and signing your name that the meet that standard. The lawyers will be calling when something happens.  

I dunno.  Could be wrong but seems absolutely crazy to "qualify" someone like this.  

Use no shoot targets and put to whatever range is the furthest potential engagement at your church.

As to what standard, up to yall.

I would think that threat assessment and management would be just as, if not more important than firearms instruction.  Not that firearms instruction isn't important, but it's only one component.

Is that what I said?  

Nope, sure isn’t.

We pay one uniformed off duty LEO to stand in the atrium every Sunday.  There is one way in / out and he’s in the center of the path.

Sounds like he is someone that might recognize that CPL standards are often low and people wishing to work security in a potentially high threat environment should have more training.

I would have your guys qualify to the same standard as your state armed security guards are....purely for liabilities sake. Then I would work on team tacise with force on force...

That is not a bad idea for a pre-qual.  If guys can't pass that, they shouldn't be on the team.  Tactics and force-on-force and follow on safety, marksmanship, and gun handling would make a good training program.

 You guys don't have any fire exits?

Also, OP, inshallah.  

They're more likely to have to deal w/ heart attacks.

Very true.  My advice to church security teams is to have them or anyone who may not qualify for armed security to do medical training.  CPR/AED/First Aid/Stop the Bleed

Ive been involved in a couple church security teams over the years. One that was seriously professional who had to take classes, be registered and insured and I can tell you that it was all on medical and being hands on with people. Very little shooting emphasis.
Helping old ladies out of cars, dealign with heart attacks and falls, and watching doors.

The other was a shit show of geezers who carried 10mm pistols and kept a AR pistol with m855 up in the sound booth, called themselves a security team and had code names for their radios.

Yea, guess which one I ran from immediately?

The church security mindset is what finally drove my family out of church. Idiots who feel that they need to militarize their buddies and their church made me think one of them boomers were going to drop their 1911 and have it go off and hit my kid.
If your ass cant run 5 miles, haul 150 pounds up a flight of stairs, or God forbid FIST FIGHT then you have no place calling yourselves security. The actual percentages of a church incident where you will need to be running a AR from the sound booth is pretty damn low.
Carry your gun, protect your own but the Bond meets seal team 6 shit is hilarious.
Prepare to be sued at some point.

Does your state have a security guard shooting qualification? I would expect that level of proficiency at a bare minimum, though my states requirement is woefully inadequate for a real world engagement.

If you're serious about a church security, firearms is a small component of an overall plan.  A simple search shows multiple security team training options available. Link here.

There are several states that have passed unlawful militia laws.  Check for those laws to make sure you're not stepping into that mess.