Training was my profession for 40 years; half of it military. None of it in small arms, though. Want to know how to drop a Mk-82 or launch a Harpoon missile; I'm your guy. Want to watch a newbie activate the bolt release setting his AR-15 down on the range bench ... that's me too. We (wife and I) just got into the AR world in the spring, so we've been at it for a little more than 5 months. We now have two 5.56 carbines, a 6.5 Grendel rifle, and a .300 BO AR Pistol. I'm in the process of converting a Rem 870 duck gun into a HD shotgun and will have that ready in a week or so. At some point, we're going to get 2-4 semi-automatic pistols but we don't have a schedule for that. We're still using my S&W Model 19 .357 revolver and Rossi Coach gun double-barreled shotgun as our primary home defense weapons. The reason for that is our experience and skill level. Our skills with the new firearms will need to be much closer to our skills with the old ones before we swap them out in the HD role. So that's our mission.

We attended three professional training courses so far, for a total of 16 hours. We plan to take more courses as we develop our individual skills with the various new firearms. Up to and including tactical movement, room-clearing and so on; especially how we work together as a team for you mutual safety and defense. Both of us take this very seriously.

I'm looking at this as a layered development process. Skills are needed to be able to develop other skills, in other words. Safety and basic handling skills come before skills requiring accuracy and speed, for example. Many of the core skills are all about physically manipulating a complex machine under stress. The best way to develop such skills is practice, practice, and more practice. The machine-manipulation skills need to be as "automatic" as possible so that the brain is free to deal with the complexities and stress of the situation.

Here's where we're doing now:

Dry-fire: 3-4 sessions a week for, 10-30 minutes. Alternating firearms. Dummy rounds. Up until this week, we've been doing it about 20 feet from a big-screen television and aiming at targets on it. We just got a Strikeman dry-fire system this week and I'll be setting it up so we can use it for dry-fire sessions. Once I have it figured out, I'll set up a schedule of drills and 1-1 competitions.

Weekly indoor range sessions: I go most weeks but my wife can only make it about once a month. I'm retired but she's still working. I alternate between "small" sessions with 2-3 firearms and about 90 minutes long, and "big" sessions with up to 5 firearms and lasting up to four hours. I do about three big session for each long session. That changes depending know what I'm doing. If I'm sighting or trying out new sights, I'll do more big sessions. Today I'm doing a big session so I can refine the sighting on the new prism sight on my 5.56. And I got a case of .300 BO ammo so I'm going to fire more than a handful of rounds in one session for a change. As it's my go-to HD firearm, I always shoot my .357 when I go to the range. Whatever I'm shooting, so far, all I'm doing are working on my off-hand slow-fire accuracy and ready drills. I need a shot timer but haven't got to it yet. I know I need to add more drills but haven't got to it yet.

Outdoor range: I've yet to get any of the new firearms on an outdoor range. Once I get my shotgun converted and a few other things resolved, that will be a top priority.

Personal training. We're thinking about hiring someone to give us about four hours of individual instruction; to help us with form, consistency, and whatever else we can learn by having someone who knows their stuff watching us shoot and telling us what to change to improve.

Apart from that, I'm reading and watching videos about all sorts of things, including self-defense laws. And trying to be discriminating while doing it.

Based on what I've read here on arfcom, we're likely already doing a lot more than most AR newbies when it comes to training and practice. When I look at the vast difference in skill level between us and even a moderately competent and experienced AR shooter, though, I feel like we still have a ton of work to do. And that's okay. We know it will take time and practice and we're working on it.

What advice would you offer to us that will help us on our journey to moderate competency?

Here's the ammo I'm taking for big range day. Not all of the magazines are full. I load several of them with 10 so I'll do more mag changes in a session. I'll be shooting for about three hours before my wife joins me.

3 hours of shooting! Damn!

Yes, even as a new AR shooter, you're already ahead of alot of people here.

It does sound like you're putting alot of ammo downrange at these "big sessions".

What exactly does one of those sessions look like, with each weapon?  I ask, because structured practice is the key....you can do ALOT of shooting, and only be getting practice on one or two skills, or you can do some relatively low round count drills that are exercising a wide variety of tactics, techniques, and procedures.

And, structured drills aren't necessarily valid practice by themselves, but doing these, with recognized standards, will tell you what areas you need to work on, and THEN you go work THAT particular TTP.

For example, the Bill Drill, showing you that you need to work on your speed of draw/first hit, and rapid fire control.  Or the 3M Test, showing you need to get faster at malfunction clearing WHILE moving.

And the F.A.S.T. is a great diagnostic tool to show where you're at with a defensive handgun, in all of 6 rounds.

Structured drills with known standards will guide your progress, as an individual shooter.  

For team work, practice things like bounding, and cornering.  Practice how you communicate while bounding.  Agree on simple commands to each other while working together.

For example, it isn't "hey, they're shooting at us from up ahead, in front of us, maybe 50 meters", it's "CONTACT: FRONT! 50 METERS!"

And instead of "let's work our way to the left, you cover me, I'll go to the left, then cover you while you move", it's "PEEL LEFT!".

Having simple Immediate Action Drills and how to communicate them worked out ahead of time, then actually practicing them so you'll be familiar with what to do, is key to success when working as a team.  

There are shot timer apps for phones, free.

Sounds like you're headed in a good direction, keep it up.

I'd say get ye to an outdoors shooting spot, where you can really work on things, unencumbered by the strictures of public range facilities.

Even simple things like pivoting to a target 90 degrees as you draw and fire, or side stepping off the line of attack as you do same, must be practiced, and generally cannot be done at a static range.

Do that shit enough, and you'll find yourself side stepping when you draw and dryfire...and you'll smile!

Thanks for the encouragement and the great information. It's exactly the sort of stuff we need. We're looking for a new place, now that civilization is creeping in and turning our sleepy little rural town into yet another suburban hive. We're looking for a place where we can build our own range so we can practice exactly the sort of stuff you're talking about. I don't know enough about it yet to know what that means other than it should be three-dimensional and provide for different types of movement, cover, multiple targets, and so on.

The shot timers for phones you mentioned; they respond to the sound of the shot to time reaction? That rocks. I'll check it out. Thanks.

This week's three and a half hours at the range: I moved a lot of sights around so I had a lot of sighting to do. I put a visible laser, backup iron sights, and a red dot on my AR pistol. And since we've now decided on their final location, I removed the prism sights on both my AR and my wife's AR so I could put thread compound on the screw threads. So that was five sets of sights to sight in. I got my .357 revolver back from the gunsmith and test-fired four cylinders of .38 and four of .357 through it. I shot five rounds of 00 buck out of my double barreled shotgun because its still in service as a HD shotgun and because it's so much fun shooting a double barrel with 18" barrels and outside hammers.

Once all the chores were done, starting with the revolver, then the .300 BO pistol, then my wife's coyote-shooter 5.56 AR, then my coyote shooter 5.56 AR. I shot slow-fire for accuracy at multiple ranges, sort-of rapid-fire for accuracy at multiple ranges, two-shot ready drills, two-shot ready drills with dummy rounds in the cylinder/magazine to simulate failures. For both coyote-shooters, I also shoot at a target with six bulls-eyes on it, five shots for each target but changing targets with each shot. I shoot both hers and mine because hers is set up for a leftie and I want to be as familiar with its control as I am mine, which is set up for a rightie. In some cases, such as with the AR Pistol and my coyote-shooter this week, I shoot multiple sets using different sights to compare them. This week, I shot multiple sets with the .300 BO pistol to compare iron sights with a pistol red dot, with a visible laser; and with my coyote-shooter, to compare the 3x prism with a visible laser at 25 yards. My comparisons are all about feel and perceived ease-of-use. Until I get a shot timer, that's the best I can do. I find it pretty helpful as an early filtering process though. I liked the combination of the 3x prism with a visible laser for an AR carbine.

The problem with my revolver showed up after about a hundred rounds; mostly .38 special with a dozen .357s. The cylinder release keeps coming loose and affecting the cylinder lockup. Back to the smith it goes.

The young people who run the range at my club are getting to know me pretty well and they give me an awful lot of help with all sorts of stuff. They seem to get a kick out of watching this old dog out there trying to learn all these new tricks.

On the bottom. My 1974 Rossi Coach Gun, 12-gauge, 3" chamber, 18" barrel, open cylinder. It's been my wife's night-stand gun for 35 years. Test her abilities with it at your own risk.

I can spend DOUBLE that amount of time at the range, and still have juice to keep going.

Now mind you, I spend most of the time shooting MY MOUTH on those long days. Don't hate me.

And you need to start toting that ammo in CANS. Ammunition gets stored in CANS. Cardboard boxes are a recipe for a spontaneous yard sale. And they absorb water. Cans are the answer.

Too funny.

Sir, Yes, Sir! The logistics train for the cans has not kept pace with that of the ammunition itself ... it's the fault of Supply, Sir!

That’s the spirit!

It's a big subject.  

Safety, Marksmanship, and gunhandling are the place to start.

Do some reading in the "Videos, Books, Training Tools" section

One article about where to start:  5 Combative Shooting Drills You MUST Practice

Some resources for self training: NRA MQP Courses of Fire/Qualifications

Watch all the videos from Paul Howe on Make Ready TV

Strategies and Standards for Defensive Handgun Training book

Once you have safety, marksmanship, and gun-handling down to Paul Howe's standards, Tactics and Force-on-Force are next:

Dave "Boon" Benton on Preparation to Carry a Firearm

Yes, every thing R_S said.

Cascade dude, what part of the state are you in, and where are you looking?

I'd say, get as big (read "long") a property as you can, it'd be nice to practice rifle at farther than 300 yard distances.

But realistically, depending on terrain and situation, most of your defensive type work is gonna be within 200.

If you can set up an L-shaped berm, that gets you a 90 degree range fan.  U- shaped gets you 180.

This is helpful to be able to work targets at different angles, i.e., you engage threats at 25-50 yards in front, but then have to pivot towards "new" threats off to the side, etc.

I would say ditch the laset on the rifle.  Over time, in different light amd background conditions, you'll find that it's not always easy to spot, so personally I wouldn't want to rely on it.

Most folks these days are only using lasers in IRspectrum, w/ NODS.

That revolver is starting to sound like too much trouble!  "Get rid of that nickel-plated sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock!"  Just messing with ya, line from a movie...but that is a huge liability, with it doing that.

Modern semi autos are arguably more reliable than revolvers, as they do not contain the intricate type of clockwork necessary for function.  

Timer ap I use is "Splits", free in the Google Play store, yes, it functions just like any regular shot timer...it is a HUGE training benefit.

There are several drills that will show you where to improve, and help you measure yourself.  I'll list some here in a bit.

But yeah, where in WA?

Thank you very much! Very helpful.

Thanks for the great information.

We're in South Central Snohomish County now, between Monroe and Lake Roesiger. We're looking for land in Whatcom, Clallum, and Jefferson Counties. We thought about Whidbey for a time but have since moved on from that idea. We'd like to get about 20 acres. Depending on the shape, a hundred yards seems doable. Two hundred might be possible but I doubt we'll be able to get 300 out of 20 acres. We talked about moving to Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming to get more land but the winters are more than we want to handle.

We have plans to move to semi-auto pistols but we're up to our eyeballs in new stuff we have to learn right now that we chose to hold off on that for a while. I've never had a single problem with my S&W Model 19 until now and I'm hoping to get it sorted this week.

We're really only looking a visible lasers for indoor use at a max range of maybe 35 feet. Both of our 5.56 rifles have prism sights and the .300 BO has a Vortex Venom RDS on it. We haven't made a decision on them yet. I got two very cheap lasers to experiment with and see what we think. I'm not having any problem finding the laser dot at 10 yards but it's a different story at 25 yards. A shot timer will let me see if it's worth pursuing more or not.

Not sure if night vision is in our future. The desire is there; the budget is not.

Competing is the way.
It tests/builds accuracy, speed, and weapon manipulation skills.
Just start with a local IDPA or USPSA pistol match.
Time 10:35, Competitive Shooters. The whole video is worth a watch.

Thanks. I'd love to get into some competitions when I'm ready. I have a lot of fundamental skills to develop first.

I had a good day at the range today. Today, for the first time, it started to feel like it's coming together. My proficiency with basic functions is getting better faster. It feels like some "muscle memory" is setting in. I still have a long way to go but it's good to feel some progress.

Other than ten rounds through a shotgun, I spent all day shooting the same rifle, my 5.56 AR carbine with a 3x Prism and a visible laser. It's finally got the right sights on it for me and it was nice to get a lot of time with it. I downloaded a shot-clock app but I couldn't get it to work with my microphone. I gave up on it pretty quickly though, since I didn't want to use my range time on that. I'll figure it out. I ran a bunch of ready drills today, half using the Prism sight, half using the visible laser. All but the last four cycles were two shots. For the last four with the laser, I added an additional head shot and hit with two of them.

30 rounds of ready drill with each pictured below. I am pleasantly surprised with how quickly I am getting used to the prism site. And I'm even more surprised how easy it is to use at ten yards despite being a 3x magnification. I can get it on target much quicker than I would have thought at this stage of my learning. The laser works well at both 10 yards and 25 yards, despite it being the cheapest laser on the planet. We're looking at them for indoor use only, out to maybe 12 yards. I still "feel" faster with it than the prism but the shot timer and dry-fire trainer will tell the true tale.

Good Job!

Follow the Preparedness Cycle and you will continue to improve:

Thanks! I love it.

My plans for the day just fell through so I'm going to get in some more range time. I'm loading magazines now. I'm taking 300 rounds of 5.56, 300 rounds of .300 BO, and 100 rounds of .357. I might only use a third of it but it's better to have too much ...

As soon as the mags are loaded and everything's ready, I'm going to figure out how to use the Splits shot timer. Then try to figure out a new drill or two to try today. I'm going to do the same ready drills I did on Wednesday again, and work on getting my initial aim point higher. I'm getting a lot of abdomen shots because that's where the sight is when I'm ready to fire. Because it's all about speed, I'm taking the abdomen shot rather than resetting to the chest. So I'm going to work on getting my initial aim spot higher.

I want to find a drill I can use with the Strikeman Pro dry-fire system and at the range. Same drill, same distance (10 yards), and same size target (7.5"). That should give me good data to see how effective my dry-firing sessions are on my range sessions.

Repetitions, repetitions, repetitions. The more I shoot; the better I get. The more often I shoot, the faster I get better.

From your OP it looks like you're mainly training for home defense? Identifying the highest probability scenarios in that context can help guide your training priorities.

In confined spaces, fighting hands-on is a high probability. Are you both learning to fight with your hands as well as weapon retention and access in a fight? Just something to consider.

--Find some local competitions, such as action pistol, NRA high-power, maybe even some shotgun sports such as trap/skeet and sporting clays.

--Go hiking with your gear to determine what's useful and comfortable.

--Get fit and stay that way.

--Learn topics such as first aid, wilderness survival, and land navigation.

--Go camping, go backpacking, go hunting.

--Learn how to repair things, such as guns and vehicles. Learning some repair sewing would be good too.

--Learn to garden.

Thank you!

Home defense and livestock defense (coyotes, bears, mountain lions). I need to get off my butt and find an outdoor range so I can start practicing at more than 25 yards.

We've been working on scenarios ... and our planned responses to them. We still have a lot of work to do there.

Unarmed combat skills are on our list but we haven't done anything yet.

Weapon retention is a concept I just recently learned about. We have two-point slings for our ARs and use them in practice but that's as far as we've gone with that.

We have a couple of "Defense Carbine" courses planned for next year. I know they address cover, concealment, movement, and communications and includes live-fire on a combat range but not much more.

Good stuff, thanks!

Given how many recommendations I got about competitions so far, that seems like something we need to do.

I'm working on the fitness. I've lost 175 pounds so far and have another 20 to 25 to go. I competed in a 5k Obstacle Course Race this year and will be doing a 10k next year. I have blocked arteries in one knee and under one clavicle that limit my physical abilities but I'm thinking about surgery next year to bypass them. I've gone just about as far as I can go without addressing them.

First aid, wilderness navigation, land navigation, camping, hiking, vehicle repair, small-engine repair, gardening, animal husbandry ... all are in my wheel-house. Some I train/practice more often than others. First aid, in particular, I always feel I should be doing more training. I hiked about 250 miles this summer, and about 55,000 feet of elevation. I'm planning my first backpack trip in 45 years for next summer. We already grow/raise about 85% of our food. We're working on moving that into the 95% range.

I haven't hunted in years but am in the process of changing that. Now, my hunting consists of shooting rats that live in the forest outside my door with my Crossman. I'm going pheasant hunting next week for the first time in ages, though. I'd love to find someone to let me tag along on a deer hunt and mentor me. I don't have much big game experience and the last deer I shot was in 1992 or so.

Gunsmithing: Needs work. I've been working on our lever guns, bolt-action rifles, revolvers, and double-barreled shotguns for decades but nothing has ever broken on any of them. We only got into ARs and pump shotguns this year. Next year, we'll be adding semi-automatic handguns. I built one of our ARs from parts but that's all the learning I've done. I'd like to get some formal training.

Sewing ... thank you! We hadn't thought about that. I can do buttons and hems but not much more. I should work on that.

My background:  I'm a former hardcore USPSA pistol shooter; still probably more so than 95% of folks out there, but I don't spend every waking non-working minute on it anymore.
I've been an AR owner, but not so much an AR shooter, for ~20 years.  I decided to change that and have been working in a lot more rifle shooting and local rifle/ 2gun competition over the last 2+ years.
I just apply pistol training concepts to rifle, and it works very well.  Training is training, doesn't matter the platform, the fundamental concepts and feedback loop will largely be the same.  Once you have the mechanics correct for the new platform, you work to improve on it in the same way you do anything else.

Some comments based on what you've said so far, and feel free to lend them as much weight as what you've paid for them

1) Get a real shot timer now.  A timer is non-negotiable, and vastly more important than any other gizmo or even sighting system you can have as far as improving any kind of dynamic type shooting you are doing.  To improve, you need goals and data.  The timer is the only thing that can really give you that data.  It is critically important for both dry and live fire, especially for a new shooter without past reference points about what "fast" really feels like for you.

2)  Sighting system:  I absolutely support trying out various equipment for yourself... "what works for someone else doesn't necessarily work for you" is true in a LOT of cases, but, I can shortcut you on this one if you want:  Assuming your vision is good/good enough, on any "practical" type targets from 0-200yd, or maybe even a little further, the red dot is king.  If that is your shooting envelope, you can skip all the lasers, magnified stuff, etc.  Red dot is where it's at if you want to hit "practical" size targets at speed from 0-200+yd.  Obviously, the caveat is, if you can't see the target, you can't shoot it.  But, I would use this as a baseline and only modify as necessary based on any vision limitations you have.

3)  Structure of your range sessions (applies to dryfire too):  I find the "gun buffet" is not very productive.  You have finite amounts of time and effort.  If you have three hours at the range, and 1.5 hours is consumed with setting targets, loading mags, pasting/whatever other administrative tasks, and you are shooting 6 guns, you are getting ~15 minutes per gun of actual work.  And your brain is getting overloaded with data from six different guns.  It's too much at one time to think about and absorb.  I'd take one or two guns, spend time focusing on goals around those, and trying to set new personal bests on whatever you are working on that day for those one or two guns.  I think you'll make more progress faster, as your brain will soak in a more manageable volume of "stuff", and make your gains faster and better retained.  Same would apply to dryfire. YMMV.  You have to balance everything within the truth that high level shooting is a very perishable skill, and developing and then maintaining it takes a lot of time and ongoing effort.  In my case... if I have X number of three hour range sessions per week, and they used to be 100% devoted to pistol, and then I add rifle, I'm roughly spending half the time I used to on pistol, and therefore my pistol shooting is going to take a hit.  It's just the way it is.

4) Place to shoot:  This is very hard for some, depending on your situation, but you need an outdoor bay with 180+degrees of shooting angle available where you can set up target arrays and movement at your discretion.  A 25yd indoor lane where you may even have rate of fire caps isn't going to cut it for very long if you want to get better at dynamic shooting.

5) Competition:  I'm biased, but as mentioned above, I HIGHLY recommend it if you have it available.  Nothing is going to show you where you are deficient faster than shooting against other people on the clock.  You don't need to be a great shooter before you start competing.  It's the other way around.  As long as you can be safe (99% of which is following directions and keeping the gun pointed down range) you are qualified to compete.  You will learn more and get better as you go.  IDPA and USPSA have nationally sanctioned rule sets and should be the same everywhere.  Multigun stuff is much more fragmented and "outlaw", meaning many matches will just have made up local rules.  But they can still be a lot of fun and very informative.  And it's also a great way to induce pressure to perform onto yourself.

Wow! Thank you very much for taking the time to help me. You've given me a lot to think about.

1) Get a real shot timer now: By "real," do you mean one a separate device that's not a smart phone app?

2) Sighting system: We started with red dots but we both have astigmatism and they're problematic. At indoor home defense distances, they worked fine but both of us need to be able to chase coyotes away from our livestock. So we got a 1x prism for her 5.56 AR carbine with an expectation that she would get good enough to be effective to 100 yards. And a 3x prism for my for 5.56 AR carbine. Until I get on an outdoor range, I won't know how far I'll be able to shoot it effectively but I'm hoping to get into the 150-200 yard range with practice. I have a Grendel 6.5 with an LVPO on it for longer-range needs but I don't know how far I can shoot it, either. I'm working on replacing our double-barreled shotgun with a HD pump and I have a .300 BO AR pistol I'll be converting to an SBR at some point. For now, our focus is on improving our skills with our 5.56 ARs as much as possible so we can transition them into home defense "service" weapons, for indoor and out. For the visible lasers, we're looking at them as an "indoors-only" sighting system. If the shot-timer doesn't objectively validate my subjective feeling that I'm faster with it, we may pursue it any further than the $75 we invested in two of the world's cheapest laser sights. Beyond the shot timer, I very much like being able to stay heads-up with the muzzle on target. I still shoot from the shoulder but I sight about three inches over the top of the top turret of the prism sight. I have a Vortex Venom red dot on the AR pistol right now. It's very effective at the indoor ranges it's set up for.

3) Range Session Structure. Roger that, copy all. In the process of figuring out configurations and accessories and so on, I usually have a to-do list (sighting, testing accessories, etc.) when I go to the range and many times, there's something on that list for several guns. My immediate response will be to separate indoor range sessions into work sessions or skill building sessions. My "one-range-session-a-week" goal will change to "one-skill-building-range-session-a-week." When I have a to-do list, I'll just have to go twice in that week. Oh, the horrors.

4) Roger that. Copy all. I haven't looked into that yet but I know it's something I need to do. My club has a couple of defensive carbine classes that train movement, cover, comms, and so on. And have a lot of dynamic shooting. Once I feel my skill level is ready for it, I'll be signing up for those. They also have a class I can take to get certified to draw and shoot from a holster. That's on my radar too. When we move to our new place, I'm hoping we have enough room for a 25 yard circular range with a 360-degree berm and covered shoot house. A single-lane 100-yard range would be nice too.

5) Competition. Roger that. Copy all. I'm not quite confident enough to do that just yet but I'm getting there. It sounds like focusing more range time on one firearm at a time will help me get there.

Thanks again!

Fortunately, my club doesn't have specific fire caps. All they require is that you hit the target. As long as I'm hitting the target, I can fire as fast as I want.

Firing rapidly will get the RSO coming over and standing behind me to see if I'm hitting the target. If I am, he or she won't say a word.

Yes... phone app might work ok for dryfire, but a standalone timer will be easier to use for that to, and for actual shooting use there will be no comparison.

It's true that an actual timer is better and more versatile, but "Splits" does work fine.  I'm using it exclusively outdoors though.

Echo smoothing and shot intensity should be set in the middle, at "normal".  Again, outside, inside might have yo adjust echo smoothing.  

Look at the options in settings too, par vs. Comstock, etc.  

And agreed that timing yourself is a hugely important component in gauging your own metrics.  It is a must.

Standardized drills like F.A.S.T. for pistol and Modified Navy Qual for rifle are great ways to measure your own performance metrics.

Cascade Dude, you're really getting dialed in.  For example, looking at your targets, I was gonna advise  remember your offset, close-up you're getting low hits, wanna be higher.  But you already identified that, good call.  What distance have you zeroed that 3x optic at?

And you're seeing progress the more you do.  You are well on your way.  

And good on you with the progress in your fitness journey, that is a HUGE component of being able to fight effectively, one that is often overlooked around these parts.