Originally Posted By Bosqueboy:
I figure I need 25 years of retirement income. So if we retire at age 65 and need 25 years of income that $1,000,000 would give us $40,000 @ year without investing it at all, now throw in a modest return on your $1,000,000 and would be comfortable with a 5% drawdown. Its hard to come to grips on spending our retirement fund after all we were the type to save our money, that's how we got a million dollars in the first place by being "thrifty".

Originally Posted By ACEB36TC:
This not a "humble brag" but I saw very early on the problem with being poor at retirement age. It wasn't an old lady eating cat food but very close in comparison. My Wife and I absolutely KNEW what we were working for and it WAS the "brass ring". Every day for decades we focused on what life would be like when we stopped working. Thank God we did. Now ,after 15 years of retirement, we're better off financially than the day we retired.

Guys there is no secret to this. Live below your means, achieve the no debt status before you retire and SAVE SAVE SAVE!!!. Many if not all of our friends are still working or just now retiring. Many are dead.

I bought a new truck yesterday. I needed one. Wrote a check for it. No it wasn't the giant lifted bad ass big boy. Nice Canyon with what we needed on it. I'll reuse the tool box I had on the other one I had. We're still worth more now than when we retired. It was hard ( we thought) watching everyone we knew take trips and buy stuff while we stayed home and drove used cars. Now THEY stay home and drive used vehicles. I'm having a BLAST being retired and we earned it the hard way.

Originally Posted By FALARAK:


Curious - why do you care that someone else is planning on inheritance as part of their plan?

Originally Posted By Bosqueboy:


You are correct on the current CD rates, I'm using a ladder approach at the moment with more weight on the short term CD's than the long term, I also only buy call protected as you stated.

Once retirement age has been reached my thought is throw long term planning out the window as we no longer will be on this earth long term, I'm starting to plan on how to die broke, I figure I need 25 years of retirement income. So if we retire at age 65 and need 25 years of income that $1,000,000 would give us $40,000 @ year without investing it at all, now throw in a modest return on your $1,000,000 and would be comfortable with a 5% drawdown. Its hard to come to grips on spending our retirement fund after all we were the type to save our money, that's how we got a million dollars in the first place by being "thrifty".

The big unknown in retirement planning is inflation as we have found out recently all good plans are fine and dandy until inflation punches us in the face. Obviously there is no right or wrong, black or white just what everyone is comfortable with and everyone's circumstances are different but I think the American dream is still alive and "God Bless America".

Thank you for taking the time to join in the discussion, I appreciate you.

Originally Posted By djkest:
We are currently in the 93rd percentile for retirement savings based on my age.

Originally Posted By djkest:
I just talked to one of my managers that said he can't contribute much to retirement because he's putting 2 kids through college.

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

I coach people at work on personal financial management strategy, and have taught Dave Ramsey's financial peace.  I have heard every excuse in the book.  College, kids, big mortgage, expensive wife, live for now, inflation.  Every single time, it was about choices.  I have *never* seen a reality where someone could NOT save 10% of their gross income for retirement, after making a few smaller lifestyle changes (at least in my coaching sessions).  I am sure they exist, but I have never personally seen them, unless someone was drowning in debt (again, almost always because of choices.)

Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Friend of mine and I were talking last night. We have a mutual friend who is a great guy. Extremely hard working and a good family guy. The kind of person you would love to have as a neighbor. He purely lives for the moment. He’s making more than my friend and I make but he’s spending it as fast as he makes it. He had some hard times a couple years ago and decided to cash out all his retirements to live on. Luckily for him, he fell into his current job and is making money like crazy now. But, he’s not saving or investing a penny. While the income is fantastic at the moment, it’s also the type of job that could vanish tomorrow.  It’s sad to see. We both think very highly of him and we’ve tried to convince him to consider retirement but he just lives for the moment.

Originally Posted By FALARAK:


The worst part about all this..... is that it doesn't have to be an either/or choice.  You can have both.  But it takes *some* moderation.

Originally Posted By entropy:


I obviously have #3, but still not sure what the heck to do about it!

Originally Posted By frozenny:
Hi guys...

Ever meet someone who has a Taurus model 85 revolver in .38 Special and half a box of cartridges, who then claims "I'm ready for social upheaval.  I'm prepared.  I have a gun!"?

Originally Posted By frozenny:
Hi guys...

Ever meet someone who has a Taurus model 85 revolver in .38 Special and half a box of cartridges, who then claims "I'm ready for social upheaval.  I'm prepared.  I have a gun!"?  Does this sound kind of short sighted and ignorant to you?  Well, to use that analogy, I suspect a LOT of people are doing the same thing with savings and retirement.  "I put $1000 in my IRA EVERY YEAR!".  Yeah, that's the same as the Taurus guy above....  

This post is gonna run with the financial theme....  No flames intended.  But If I make anyone uncomfortable,  GOOD!  I'm hoping it causes some thought, and better yet, some action.... This is, marginally, a SHTF discussion.  If you cannot cover rent/mortgage, insurance, food and medicines, it is a personal and ugly situation.  Therefore, I'd argue finance IS preparedness...  I'm going to dramatically over simplify.  Its done in the hopes of clarity, and because I dont want to get tied down in tiny details.  To run with the Taurus example above, we could argue why AR15s are better than a Ruger Mini 14, but realistically speaking, isn't the Ruger Mini owner with ten mags and 800 rounds of 5.56 really and truly better off than the Taurus guy (even if there are better options out there)?  Im simplifying....

I'm mid 50"s.  Retirement is on the horizon and I've got two or three years to the finish line.  And since many of my acquaintances are of a similar age, this is a common discussion.  I'm seeing some trends.  And some serious pitfall traps...

We, as people, tend to 'absorb' assumptions.  We grow up, see parents, absorb behavior.    Many of us grew up with grandparents who worked at the mill until 65, and then retired.  Dad worked for the state and retired at 55.  We just tend to often sort of make some assumptions and think "hey, I'll work to 55 or 58 and retire too".  For many of of, its not gonna happen... Ever....

Many Americans are woefully ignorant. I hear many who dont really know the difference between a pension and their 401k....  Apologies if I oversimplify.  No insult intended.

Pension:  Grandpa worked 30 years at the mill.  If he made $50,000 a year the last several years, the employer ran some simple math.  30 years times 2% per year equals 60%.  60% of that $50K final salary meant Grandpa got $30,000 a year from his actual pension.  His pension was a "defined benefit".  His years of service and his salary determined what he got as a pension check.  Add $15 or $20K in social security and Grandpas retirement income was close to his working income.  Time to go fishing or play golf.  All is good...

Here is the problem.  If you are under 50 and dont work for federal or state government in some form, odds are really really high you do NOT have a pension.  People often say "my pension" because any retirement income is viewed as pension.  Sorry, but it isn't so....

overwhelmingly the majority of Americans today do NOT have a pension. pensions are too expensive.  And they are rapidly disappearing. Instead, employers are moving to Defined Contribution plans.  Most of these are 401K's (but there are 403bs and 414Hs and others.  They are all similar).  Really simply, they work like this.  For most people, IF you put money in, the employer kicks money in too.  And there are limits. It varies.  My current employer is kind of typical:  Every dollar I put in, they match to a maximum of 5%. If I make $100,000 and I put 10% into the 401K, the company throws in an additional 5,000 (They matched the first 5%).  

Here is the problem.  Many, if not most, people do not contribute sufficiently.  Many dont contribute AT ALL.  Make $100K, put nothing in 401K, and there is zero contribution for the company to match.  Hey, bonus for them.  They just saved that $5000 from the example above.  Many companies OFFER the 401K, but they dont push too hard.  If you choose not to enroll, they are happy to save thousands thru your ignorance.  

Or for many people,  its "I'll contribute $3,000 a year".  Fair enough.  You put in 3%, so the company kicked in another 3%.  Good news!  You doubled your Money!  And after decades of saving $6000 per year (your 3K and the company match 3K) you've got $150,000 in your 401K.  sounds good.  But if you're the $100,000 earner in the example, you now have sufficient retirement savings to cover 18 months of living expenses.  18  Months.  What about social security?  Yeah, that's a fail.  How far are you going to go on $20 or $25K????  

I'm seeing tons of educated, professional, smart people who are, for the most part, just completely focused on the here and now.  this week.  This month.  Maybe looking one or two years ahead.  But they are hitting 50, sitting down with a financial planner for the first time, talking about retirement goals and getting the bad news:  No.  You can't retire at 55.  You likely can't retire at 67.  You have no pension, you didn't save enough and unless you want to cut your current living expenses from the $100K a year you spend now down to $30K a year (good luck), you're likely working until youre 75....

Retirement traditionally had the infamous "three legged stool":  One leg was Social Security. Another the pension.  And the third was retirement savings.  Pensions dont exist for many.    Social Security is minor:  Its NOT a sufficient retirement income, end of story.  That means YOUR retirement savings will constitute the biggest portion of your retirement income.  

You might be 20s or 30s.  I know its really easy to think "retirement?  Thats 20 years out!  I'll worry about that in a few years".  You dont have them.  Every single year you wait, you loose money and more importantly, you loose time....  You loose compounding....

If I make $100,000 a year, and I want to retire at a very modest 65% of my working income, I need $65,000 per year.  Pension gives me nothing.  I dont have one.  Social security wont kick in until I'm 67 (so much for retiring at 55 like Dad), and when it does, its a minor $15,000 a year for many workers.  Call it $20,000 to be generous.  I need $65K, Social Security gives me $20K, so math tells me I need the other $45K from retirement savings....

You've got $250,000 in your 401K.  Sounds like a lot, until you realize that drawing $45,000 a year out of that means you'll totally exhaust the whole savings in 5 or 6 years.  Gone.  You retired at 67, used your savings to supplement Soc Sec and now you hit 74, 75 and its gone, leaving you trying to figure out how to pay for life on $20,000 a year.  Thats pretty damn grim....  That is a definite SHTF event.  Only its not an event, that happens once and is gone like a flood or a hurricane.  Its more of a condition of life, a permanent situation.  Trying to live the next 20 years on $20K a year.....

How can we then come up with the $40,000 a year on a regular, recurring basis.  There is an over-simplified theory I dont especially like, but I'll use it if only for clarity:  Many investment professionals claim you can draw 3.5 to 4%  a year from your portfolio.  If that is correct, $1,000,000 x 4% = $40,000 per year.  Theoretically, you can draw $40K a year  indefinitely IF you have a million dollar nest egg.  That number sounds like a lot of money to most people (except the usual General Discussion posters, who are all 6'3" tall, hung like a moose,  drive a Porsche and have a $300,000 salary).  However, the million dollar portfolio AND social security are giving you a modest $60,000 a year retirement income. Thats not yatching and jet setting retirement....  Its taking one million damn dollars to fund a modest retirement....  let that settle in.

How the hell can you acquire a million dollar portfolio?   Kind of simple really.  Start young.  Really young.  Like 19, 20, 21.  Every single year, contribute 12, 15, 18% of your income to your 401K and your IRAs.  Do it every year.   year after year.   I know 15% sounds huge.  Thats money that could be spent on trucks, boats, optics, houses and trips to Cancun.  I guess its all about choices.  Many of your neighbors choose to spend their entire check on restaurants and chrome wheels.  You stayed home, skipped the restaurant and saved money for a generator.  This is the same thing....  What do you want more?  Another lousy dinner at Olive Garden, or the SHTF preps?  This is a prep...

This is a prepping site. Most of us here tend to have a longer view than the thundering herd of sheeple.  I simply want to draw attention to a big issue:  Most of us will not have the old school pension to rely on.  Many of us work jobs that are simply too strenuous to do when we are 70, 75, 80.    A lack of income at that age is critical....  This whole retirement issue is such an immensely long time horizon that many just ignore it. Waiting until your 42 to start saving is too damn late...

If you are one of the majority of Americans who dont contribute to 401K or IRA, START NOW.  No, its not guaranteed.   Yes there are risks.  Its life....

Undoubtedly, someone will get their panties in a twist over how the real retirement withdrawal should be 2.5%, or how we should use a flexible withdrawal strategy, or or or.....   I dont care.   Its kind of like I dont care if you choose an AR15, a Ruger Mini 14 or a pistol Caliber carbine.  I just dont care.  Yup, there are advantages and disadvantages, and none of it matters because ANY of them are better than no firearm at all.  Likewise, maybe you have $900,000 or perhaps its $2,000,000.  Doesn't matter:  Aren't BOTH of those far better than the 72 year old with zero savings trying to live on $18,000 a year social security and $15 per hour part time at Walmart???

No rocket science here.  Many of you get it.  I'm just trying to potentially open the eyes of those who dont yet get it.   I'm looking at 63 year old friends with no savings who are buying $80,000 pontoon boats on with $750 per month payments.  And no retirement options.  And 59 year old friends who just took 30 year mortgages that max out their monthly income.  Apparently, they think working full time at 89 years of age to pay the mortgage is a good retirement plan...

Think it over.  Plan accordingly.  There isn't a company pension to take care of you.  And you're an idiot if you think the likes of Biden and company can somehow make it all work out...  Its your future....

Originally Posted By wildearp:
Yeah, me.  I have exactly that.  And other things.  I don't have an AI bot wall of text.  I am retiring at 59

I don't give a fuck if you or anyone else prepared.  You could drop dead at any moment, get off the porch.

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

I coach people at work on personal financial management strategy, and have taught Dave Ramsey's financial peace.  I have heard every excuse in the book.  College, kids, big mortgage, expensive wife, live for now, inflation.  Every single time, it was about choices.  I have *never* seen a reality where someone could NOT save 10% of their gross income for retirement, after making a few smaller lifestyle changes (at least in my coaching sessions).  I am sure they exist, but I have never personally seen them, unless someone was drowning in debt (again, almost always because of choices.)

Originally Posted By wildearp:
Yeah, me.  I have exactly that.  And other things.  I don't have an AI bot wall of text.  I am retiring at 59

I don't give a fuck if you or anyone else prepared.  You could drop dead at any moment, get off the porch.

Originally Posted By Bosqueboy:


You are correct on the current CD rates, I'm using a ladder approach at the moment with more weight on the short term CD's than the long term, I also only buy call protected as you stated.

Once retirement age has been reached my thought is throw long term planning out the window as we no longer will be on this earth long term, I'm starting to plan on how to die broke, I figure I need 25 years of retirement income. So if we retire at age 65 and need 25 years of income that $1,000,000 would give us $40,000 @ year without investing it at all, now throw in a modest return on your $1,000,000 and would be comfortable with a 5% drawdown. Its hard to come to grips on spending our retirement fund after all we were the type to save our money, that's how we got a million dollars in the first place by being "thrifty".

The big unknown in retirement planning is inflation as we have found out recently all good plans are fine and dandy until inflation punches us in the face. Obviously there is no right or wrong, black or white just what everyone is comfortable with and everyone's circumstances are different but I think the American dream is still alive and "God Bless America".

Thank you for taking the time to join in the discussion, I appreciate you.

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

What is the "calculator" source for this?

Originally Posted By planemaker:
In theory, I could have retired before now. Truth is, I (mostly) like doing what I'm doing, especially since I'm getting paid pretty well to keep doing it.

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:  Retirement is a 100 times more complicated than working.  

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
If you haven't got the theme of this post, allow me to spell it out.   Anyone talking about retirement who isn't retired themselves doesn't know squat.  Retirement is a 100 times more complicated than working.   It was designed that way on purpose.   Yes, we can adjust but the trick is not having to.   Whatever they say, double it.  

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Just got my tax preparation to my CPA.  This retirement crap is literally no different than when I ran my own business.   I feel for you guys who have always had taxes taken out of your paycheck.  It's going to be a hell of a learning curve.  It's either that or leave money on the table.  

Take it from someone who's here and BTDT, retirement that damn Mr. Murphy is strong as hell.   It's one learning curve after another.  Maybe I can help.  First know anyone who hasn't retired yet, doesn't know shit.  They all puff their chest out and pretend they do, tell you their plan, then once retired Mr. Murphy blows that plan to hell.

A biggie nobody talks about is medical cost.  You have no choice but use Medicare and these advantage plans aren't worth shit.  Fact, the only way some medical plan saves the government money is by denying you care or making it so expensive you won't do medical care.  Free dental and eye care they say, meanwhile its $250 a day for hospital care and a whopping $7,700 max out of pocket annually.  The older you get the more things break.  Next, it's not free.  You have to have nothing and almost no income for it to be free.   If you max out Social Security even with no extra income, an Advantage plan will cost you as much as if you had a plan G with supplemental which is way better but still sucks. I'm on a plan G. Like I said, I just did my taxes so this is fresh.  You know how much money just in premiums Medicare saves me from being self employed and buying my own insurance?  A whopping $200 a month and easily prescription cost can eat that up in no time. It changes every year so 2023, it was $164 to the government for Medicare part B, $220 for B supplement, and $110 part D.  Now double it for your wife.  You don't know this A, B, C shit, you better learn  and anyone not talking to you about this shit knows shit.  You need to plan on a minimum of a $1,000 a month just for this.  BTW, just as I use to tell doctors etc.I have insurance and don't want to be disabled, now I tell them I'm not on an advantage plan.

Pensions, that gave me a chuckle.  The very first thing of my retirement plan to crash was my pension.  This is how you crash a pension plan.  First you start paying yourself as much or more every year as the pension pays out in benefits just to administer it.   Once it's not solvent, then you end it with a one time cash payout which if you are lucky is 8 years benefits not a lifetime.  Now that's an independent plan.  A company plan is way worse because it's only as solvent as the company.  You won't even get the cash payout.  

Now know this, you retire, the entire system is designed on purpose to take everything you worked for in a lifetime away.  It's always a case of how long will I live and how much do I have to last that long.  Good news is the longer you last, the less shit you will want to do.  Unless your health is already wrecked, you will want to do some things at first.  A retirement plan of watching the grass grow, looking forward to the mailman, and your next doctor appointment isn't much of a plan.

Next one, you all won't like. The time to buy precious metals was 30 years ago.   Precious metals are no different than any other physical asset.  Its not worth anything until you sell it and when you do it's not worth more than anyone is willing to pay for it.   If you buy gold on the internet at spot and sold it the next day, you are going to lose 20% to 50% unless you like that internet site find some individual to buy it.  

Next vehicles.  I screwed this one up myself but God stepped in.  Simply put, you are way better retiring with a brand new vehicle than a 10 year old one you hope will last.  Unless you have been asleep, vehicle prices the last three years, Bidennomics, have gone through the roof.  In fact, it's done better than Gold.  Keeping in mind, I don't buy boring.  I have a shit pot load of vehicles, all are worth as much or more than I paid for them.  Good right?  No, I'm retired.  When you retire some things work the exact opposite.  All that means is my insurance has gone up proportionally.   Due to Blue state flight, my house has doubled in thee years.  That's meant double the insurance and a 33% increase in taxes.  Count in groceries, Bidennomics, really sucks for retired folks.  

Now retired my cash outflow is as much as it was when I was working and still in debt.   Thank God I'm not in debt.  That mortgage payment would be a SOB right now not even including a car payment.  

Taxes, unless your retirement is below the national average even accounting for the IRS BS whoever came up with that nonsense formula, you will be looking at 85% taxable Social Security under $80K gross income at 12%.   Sucks huh?

Chore, now throw in what you use to do, you can't, and this younger generations don't want to work, lazy as shit, and want to be paid like they're millionaires. It's downright Tolstoy not what you know but who you know.   Good luck getting your kids to do it.  That inheritance promise doesn't mean shit anymore.   They don't expect an inheritance anymore and we're all doomed to be a Harry Chapin song "Cat's in a Cradle".   That's a good and bad.  It's not good to be involved in all that stress we use to have and you get use to "We'll get together then dad".   You raise them right, they won't need you anymore.  Raise them wrong, man now there's an expense that knows no end.  I have a ton of friends and family running ever day and taking care o the grandkids every day.  Child care is through the roof and two have to work to make ends meet.  We ain't our parents generation. More they don't tell you shit.  

If you haven't got the theme of this post, allow me to spell it out.   Anyone talking about retirement who isn't retired themselves doesn't know squat.  Retirement is a 100 times more complicated than working.   It was designed that way on purpose.   Yes, we can adjust but the trick is not having to.   Whatever they say, double it.  

Tj

   

Originally Posted By thederrick106:


I think this is the most bitter post I have seen from you.  Keep on keeping on, you got this!  

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:


The devil is in the details and you just proved my point that those not retired, don't understand.  Medicare part A, hospital, only pays 80% and part B only 80% if you pay the $165 with no prescription coverage.  People young enough and fit enough to work, it can be a struggle but doable.  Retired anywhere close to retirement age, it's end of life planning on a fixed income and where the need was periodic, it becomes all the time.  Watching us old folks get together is scary shit as we all end up talking about what's wrong with us, this drug that one.   Supplemental insurance is a must unless you want to see your savings dwindle every year and that needs to be some big savings.   A&B supplemental covers  that 20%.  Part D coverage is a nightmare.  First you got Tier drugs, Tier I, II, and III.  Tier I, for example, is common drugs that if you just bought it outright are not expensive.  Tier II, its hundreds of dollars a script and III thousands of dollars.  I take one shot ever six weeks that's $6,000. I can drop it and accept going blind in one eye.   These are the decisions retired folks make all the time.  Now, it's even worse.  The insurance has this donut thing where it pays fair then goes to shit until you meet a financial hurdle and then it's fair again.   What happens when you have lawyers deciding medical care.   Assisted living/rest home, it's 30-60 days and they take your home.  

My heart felt condolences on your loss and I don't mean to hurt you but hospice by design is a killing factory.   They pump you full of pain meds and let the bed kill you.   Once in hospice, forget critical care.  No life prolonging anything and it saves them money. In Blue states facilities can and do all the time deny you critical life prolonging essentials like water in which case you're done in 3-7 days.  Just yesterday I saw a news story on CBS about how wonderful euthanasia is. You take this drup and  bam dead.  They had this man going on about I, I, I got to, got to, how wonderful it was when its not about him.  Reality is without a living will, they hit you with deny them care when the family is distraught and can't think straight.  

One thing about being old is we pretty much unless we're a hermit have no choice to go through this crap and God help anyone who doesn't have someone in their family that doesn't have a medical background to manage your care.  The system is not your buddy.  It has one goal, save money.   I'll give you an example, my brother was an alcoholic and had liver disease.  The crappy regional hospital, in order to make money, totally blew what was wrong with him and took his gall bladder out.  Not wanting to miss his sons wedding, he went to a bigger city and literally went into a coma at the wedding.  First thing, the hospital asked about living will and should we unplug him.   His ex of 20 years was there screaming "I love him, I love him, unplug him".  I was shocked and stepped in "Whoa a minute.  You do an EEG?"  "No we're required to ask that."  A lucid moment, I had him sign the HIPPA forms and designate me as his principle.  Every day, I'd read his charts and coordinate between this specialist and that one.  At one point, the nurse asked me "How do you retain all that?"  I replied, "Doctors have many patients, I have one."  Instead of dead, my brother recovered, stopped drinking, live another 8 years, built a home, and helped raise his grandchildren.   What took him was a growth in his throat, this time his son was family designated lead, they gave him two chemos in one week, he got sepsis and died.  Honestly he'd probably still be alive if he hadn't gone to the hospital and had no treatment at all.

What we're going to do about our health is decisions all of us old folks make all the time and very often it involves money.  If you worked all your life to get the good things in life and especially if you have a spouse, it's not always as simple as "Whatever it costs."  Having the best you can get lowers the amount of decisions like that a lot.   My mom turns 90 next month.  She's got a whopping $1,400 a month coming in.  Owns her home, car a 2012 low miles, has a big bank account, and is pretty comfortable but to her a big trip is to the grocery store.  I just turned 70. I still ride my Harley, camp, fish, play music, and shoot my guns.   Thanks to the modern miracles of medicine, but it all starts with having access to those miracles.  

Do what you wish but know if you don't plan on this, you will be making a lot of very hard decisions.  Like most of us old folks out here, you won't be burdening your children with them.   They get involved at the end, not the years it took to get there.

Which btw, brings up end of life planning.  What happens after you die.  Nobody still working talks about that one.  Now I for one am spending my sons inheritance, but my responsibility to my family doesn't end with my death.   Life will go on after I'm gone.  Things like Wills, estate planning, even how and where you are to buried all need to be planned on and all of it is a race against the system designed to take it all.   I know you all think this is bitter, but it's reality.  

If you are not a libtard putting political party before God, life's priorities are simple, God, Family, and Country in that order.  I'll leave you with this too.  If you do do everything right, work hard, save, pay your debts on time, get out of debt, have stuff and money, know the system has indoctrinated the populace to despise you.   It's FU Boomer, you had it easy, whoa is me the victim, White Privilege, generational wealth like it's a bad thing, and how dare you do the right things in life, while you are thinking "Well fuck me for not being a lazy bottom feeder with no morals."  I started life with the clothes on my back, in debt for a POS Ford, and a good wife, just had our 51st wedding anniversary.  My mom's still living and I pray she out lives me.  I had none of that shit they're on about. All that crap they push on TV is designed to make you fail in life.  It really is as simple as what's in the Bible.  Work hard, party hard, above all keep your ethics, you morals, and you will make it in life.   Above all know when seeking advice, you listen to those who have made it in life, not the losers.  

Tj

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
[snip]

A biggie nobody talks about is medical cost.  You have no choice but use Medicare and these advantage plans aren't worth shit.  Fact, the only way some medical plan saves the government money is by denying you care or making it so expensive you won't do medical care.  Free dental and eye care they say, meanwhile its $250 a day for hospital care and a whopping $7,700 max out of pocket annually.  The older you get the more things break.  Next, it's not free.  You have to have nothing and almost no income for it to be free.   If you max out Social Security even with no extra income, an Advantage plan will cost you as much as if you had a plan G with supplemental which is way better but still sucks. I'm on a plan G. Like I said, I just did my taxes so this is fresh.  You know how much money just in premiums Medicare saves me from being self employed and buying my own insurance?  A whopping $200 a month and easily prescription cost can eat that up in no time. It changes every year so 2023, it was $164 to the government for Medicare part B, $220 for B supplement, and $110 part D.  Now double it for your wife.  You don't know this A, B, C shit, you better learn  and anyone not talking to you about this shit knows shit.  You need to plan on a minimum of a $1,000 a month just for this.  BTW, just as I use to tell doctors etc.I have insurance and don't want to be disabled, now I tell them I'm not on an advantage plan.

[/snip]   

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:


This is my biggest unknown.  I'm 60 and was thinking about retiring at 62.  I've got enough saved to live off (because I'm fairly frugal) BUT have no idea what my medical expenses will be and what to budget for them.  So I'm thinking of delaying retirement for a couple extra years to build up a bigger financial cushion and get closer to 65 (when I'm assuming medical costs will be somewhat lower because I'll qualify for Medicare).  

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:


This is my biggest unknown.  I'm 60 and was thinking about retiring at 62.  I've got enough saved to live off (because I'm fairly frugal) BUT have no idea what my medical expenses will be and what to budget for them.  So I'm thinking of delaying retirement for a couple extra years to build up a bigger financial cushion and get closer to 65 (when I'm assuming medical costs will be somewhat lower because I'll qualify for Medicare).  

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:


This is my biggest unknown.  I'm 60 and was thinking about retiring at 62.  I've got enough saved to live off (because I'm fairly frugal) BUT have no idea what my medical expenses will be and what to budget for them.  So I'm thinking of delaying retirement for a couple extra years to build up a bigger financial cushion and get closer to 65 (when I'm assuming medical costs will be somewhat lower because I'll qualify for Medicare).  

Originally Posted By entropy:
The deductibles are ridiculous.

Originally Posted By networkguru:
I have a few retirement vehicles.
a decade ago I began working for a org that participates in the FRS.
The state of Florida retirement system.
I chose the self-directed plan since I did not expect to be here for the vested time (8yrs).  
Well life laughed at my plans and i have been in the FRS well past the pension minimum.

Sometimes I wonder if I should convert to pension.
Im not that impressed with the defined benefit and I am planning to move out of state in less than 6 months.

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Part D coverage is a nightmare.  First you got Tier drugs, Tier I, II, and III.  Tier I, for example, is common drugs that if you just bought it outright are not expensive.  Tier II, its hundreds of dollars a script and III thousands of dollars.  I take one shot ever six weeks that's $6,000. I can drop it and accept going blind in one eye.   These are the decisions retired folks make all the time.  Now, it's even worse.  The insurance has this donut thing where it pays fair then goes to shit until you meet a financial hurdle and then it's fair again.

Originally Posted By entropy:
You have very few options. I retired (Voluntary separation due to covid reductions) at 60. Company paid for 6 months, and then i got 18 months of Cobra.

I started doing consulting, started my own LLC.  Obamacare is about your only option.  You can go to healthcare.gov, and pout in your particulars, and you can see the plans and costs.

Most of them suck and are expensive, unless you have no income. Consider them bankruptcy insurance for a major medical event. The deductibles are ridiculous.

One more year to medicare for me.  It will be a savings for sure.

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
I hear people say this.  However, I have a HDHCP through work, and the ACA deductibles and max out of pocket are very similar to what we have at work.

I plan for $2k per month in premiums, and $1k per month in deductible/coinsurance/max out of pocket.  $36k per year.  And as you said, if your income drops, so will the premiums.

I helped a friend get on the ACA plans, her income is about $2100 per month in SS and that's it.  Her premiums are 100% subsidized.  $1000 individual deductible, $9450 max out of pocket.  That isn't bad.  There are better plans out there, with lower max out of pocket, but she cannot afford the premiums.  Pre-medicare you should plan for at least $10k per year for healthcare for an individual, if you are poor, IMHO.  

Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I'd like to mention that the minority with a pension, particularly a private sector pension, just because they're defined benefit plans doesn't mean they're risk free.  I never understood WHY the people who tend to be the most vigorous defenders of "pensions" have such significant overlap with the adversarial-unionish-"fuck the company they're all trying to screw us" types; the only way that pension gets paid for 20-30 years is if that company continues to exist for 20-30 years and in my mind no different than yeeting every dollar you might hope to retire with into 1 single stock you picked at random.  It doesn't matter what the law is, what guarantees you have, how much you feel like they owe you, whether it's right or wrong, it's got the same risk as any other investment.  If there's no money to pay the pension there's no pension.

So even if you have one, I would highly suggest also funding an IRA or 401k or both, even if at a lower amount than someone without a pension might.  It could be the difference between being forced out of retirement or being comfortable even with a defunct pension that quits paying after 5 years.

Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast:
While you're absolutely correct, the people that need to see this have repeatedly ignored the signs/warnings/advice for so long that even coming to terms with the fact that they're hosed is too difficult o why not kick the can down the road further?

You cannot educate the willfully ignorant. This is especially true when it comes to money.

ETA: FWIW my path is the live frugal, have many irons in the fire, and be happy with what you have route. Barring something major it will be a long time until I can retire but that date will be sooner than most of my peers and I'll live far more comfortably then. Being comfortable enough now and living a fulfilling life is important but I am completely unwilling to sacrifice my golden years to do it. According to the data, my household is doing well, both from a savings and debt perspective. Not enough that I m comfortable - that won't be until my last working day is on the calendar - but confident. However, in this day and age, average means nothing. The average American is a chump.

A big part of that is simply not GAF what people think. I've said before here that a lot of people probably think I'm poor - perhaps by their definition I am, our definitions are very different. I do not pladevalue on what modern society cares for aside from where to park money to capitalize on it. If people think you aren't well to do, you're doing it right