Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Hey Bobby.  Yes, they are SBBs.  Now I wouldn't use anything else.  Do you have them in your yard?   Duranda:  If you want to build your own hives, there are great plans available free on BeeSource.com .  I don't enjoy BeeSource as a forum because I get tired of being yelled at ala ArFCom General Discussion  for every comment I make.  I was born with a really low tolerance for bullshit, and I find that to be bullshit.  Okay rant off. But BeeSource has a lot of incredible information as far as plans, etc. ETA:  The sharks in the women's forum thread reminded me of something.  If you live where there are bears, you have to take extra precautions in locating your bees.  You will also need an electric fence.  We don't have bears here, so that's yet another "local beekeeper" issue. Kitties

The screened bottom boards better ventilate and help with mite control right?  Nothing like that on this old hive of mine.  I may just build new ones and keep this around for show.  I like the top though, I am definitely copying that style and the finger joints.

I hear ya on the signal to noise ratio.  Someone asks a question and a fight breaks out.  My wife and I are adopting and let me tell you, some of those parents on thee adoption forums...nasty MF'ers.  I am sure its like that on pretty much every forum.

I will check out BeeSource.  I checked out the Homestead forum last night and there is a pretty good section on beekeeping there...at least for surfing through.

When placing the hives does the amount of sunlight matter?  Can there be too much OR if too little moisture issues?

Originally Posted By Duranda1: The screened bottom boards better ventilate and help with mite control right?  Nothing When placing the hives does the amount of sunlight matter?  Can there be too much OR if too little moisture issues?

Pretty much the rule is, the more sun the better.  Bees like bright sunny weather.  You will learn that cloudy days/stormy weather puts bees in a bad mood. I think, in Ohio pretty much anywhere this "more sun the better" rule will apply. There may be places in the universe where it doesn't apply--but since I'm in Southern Kentucky that's the rule.  Moisture is always a problem.  You want to prevent it.  No swamps, no damp areas--the bees need water to drink, but they need a dry hive.  In fact, when you set up your hives, you will want to set them up so that they have critical slope down toward the hive entrance--does this (critical slope) make sense to you?  The amount of slope necessary to make water run downhill consistently?  Any water that blows into the hive during rainstorms needs to run right back out the front.  I think it's 1/4" per foot or something.   Can't remember since I haven't poured concrete in a while.  Anyhow, because uxb is a perfectonist and I didn't want the hives leaning and looking ugly, we actually leveled the concrete blocks so that the bottom boards set just right on them.  That's not necessary for a bee yard.  You just need them to slope slightly toward the hive entrance.   Drainage is yet another reason why SBBs are great.  All the studies done have shown SBBs to be beneficial for integrated pest management and for the general health/welfare of bee colonies.  The best SBBs I have seen come from Kelley Bee supplies becaue they are VERY sturdy--made of thicker stock and hold the hive steadier.  But every company is always shifting and changing their "cutting edge" equipment to make it a little better, so I haven't seen the SBBs offered by every company this last year.

On the bottom section, here's the deal.  Just ignore it for right now.  That one ten-frame hive body plus the supers you have is plenty to start your first hive.  If you want two hives, double that.  Then we'll figure out what that lower section is. It's actually interesting and cool.  I just don't know what it is.  It's not a "standard" piece of equipment that I've seen before.


And the reason I recommend BeeSource, is that if you make your bodies and frames to their specs, they WILL fit standard Langstroth frames, etc.  You want all your parts to be interchangeable.  Trust me, you DO want this. It makes life a lot easier.  You can even make your own frames.  But honestly, frames are cheap, and unless you want to devote a lot of hours to building jigs and such, the bee suppliers can make them cheaper, easier, and just as good as if not better than, the ones you make at home.  So look into the prices before you spend money and time on making them yourself.

If this makes no sense, holler.  I'm on my first cup of coffee.  The vampire beekeeper has not quite climbed out of her coffin yet.

ETA:  Oh, and we haven't even talked about wax yet.  That's a whole nuther discussion. Shame we can't do "sub-threads."

Oh, and I guess I should add, don't place the beehives right by your kid's swingset, etc.  Pick a spot where you won't have to walk by the front of them to get to the henhouse, one that's not right beside your dog kennel.  Basically kind of out of the line of main traffic.  Don't set your hive up right in the middle of your garden, or gardening could become a bad experience.  Give the bees a spot where they can do their work kinda undisturbed unless you specifically want to look at them/work them.  At the same time, as a new beekeeper, you'll want to spend  some time watching your bees, so I don't suggest putting them six miles away unless that's your only choice.

When you get closer to setting up, we'll need to talk about skunk guards too.  Easy and cheap, but probably you'll need them.

Kitties

Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Kitties-with-Sigs, Are they Screened Bottom Boards on your hives Hey Bobby.  Yes, they are SBBs.  Now I wouldn't use anything else.  Do you have them in your yard?   Duranda:  If you want to build your own hives, there are great plans available free on BeeSource.com .  I don't enjoy BeeSource as a forum because I get tired of being yelled at ala ArFCom General Discussion  for every comment I make.  I was born with a really low tolerance for bullshit, and I find that to be bullshit.  Okay rant off. But BeeSource has a lot of incredible information as far as plans, etc. ETA:  The sharks in the women's forum thread reminded me of something.  If you live where there are bears, you have to take extra precautions in locating your bees.  You will also need an electric fence.  We don't have bears here, so that's yet another "local beekeeper" issue. Kitties

Yup, SBBs and Slatted Racks right on top of them, works like a charm, mites and small debris drop thru, ventilation is improved, the SR give the workers more room inside the hive. This is my second year Beekeeping, I dropped quite a few greenbacks to go from 3 hives to nine Hopefully, the honey crop will offset some of the expense. I'm in it for the long haul, this hobby is awesome.

CRAP!  Sorry. This is Kitties, not uxb.  Forgot to log him out.

Originally Posted By Waldo: Just wondering, are coons much of a problem? Do they predate the hives?

Yes.  Coons and skunks are our worst problem where I am.  I personally think/have heard that skunks are worse.  Because the skunks are after the bees themselves.  At night they scratch on the front of the hive.  Of course, the guard bees come out to protect the hive, and the skunks eat them.  

They're not hard to deter though.  

Kitties

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Originally Posted By raygixxer89: Who do I contact to get rid of a bee hive that is located inside a rotted railroad tie? I was outstide cutting some branches and was attacked and stung several times. I don't want to use poison because I would like to harvest the comb if possible. There isn't enough room inside a railroad tie for a colony of honeybees.  You almost certainly are dealing with yellowjackets (google for pics so you can see the difference).  Just kill them--spray at night when they can't see.

Trust me,I grew up with wasps and bees,these are bees. What's the difference between honey-bees and regular bees? I thought they all made honey. I can walk up to the rr tie and watch them come and go. The rr tie is rotted out in the middle,the opening is about 4 inches in diameter.

Dang it!  I wish this freakin computer did not remember the last person to post from here.  Grrrr.  This is Kitties, not uxb.

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Originally Posted By raygixxer89: Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Originally Posted By raygixxer89: Who do I contact to get rid of a bee hive that is located inside a rotted railroad tie? I was outstide cutting some branches and was attacked and stung several times. I don't want to use poison because I would like to harvest the comb if possible. There isn't enough room inside a railroad tie for a colony of honeybees.  You almost certainly are dealing with yellowjackets (google for pics so you can see the difference).  Just kill them--spray at night when they can't see. Trust me,I grew up with wasps and bees,these are bees. What's the difference between honey-bees and regular bees? I thought they all made honey. I can walk up to the rr tie and watch them come and go. The rr tie is rotted out in the middle,the opening is about 4 inches in diameter. Google Images will give you a pic of "honeybee" and "yellowjacket"--they are NOT the same thing.

Beekeeper is right.  There are BIG differences in yellow jackets and honeybees--though they look somewhat alike, they are nothing alike in behavior.  And I just clued in that you said "rotted out" railroad tie.  These are almost certainly yellow jackets, since yellow jackets nest in the ground, and a rotted out railroad tie would be far more akin to the "ground" than the type of place honeybees would colonize.  

Okay let's see if I can make this work:


Yellow Jacket


Honeybee



This is the most common confusion among non-beekeepers--yellow jackets and honeybees, cuz they're about the same size and look so similar unless you compare the two side by side.

We get calls all the time to remove swarms of honeybees, but we get there, and they're yellow jackets.  

Your railroad tie COULD BE a swarm of honeybees, but it's probably not.  None of the behaviors you have mentioned fit the normal honeybee behaviors.

Okay here are some pics of the beekeeping process that might be of interest to newbies, or maybe it will spark some questions.

Here are the bees in packages fresh from the producer down south.  They come all linked together by wood slats, and here a friend is cutting off our two "packages."



Our first bees:


Their first morning in their new home in our yard:


Some pics from a class at Kentucky State University:



Giving the bees a little puff of smoke at the entrance to let them know we're coming inside:


Another with the smoker.  Okay look really close at the base of the hive.  See that hardware cloth underneath the bottom board?  That's the skunk guard.  The hardware cloth is cut so there are pointy ends sticking out all around.  When the skunk goes to scratch on the hive, his underbelly gets poked by the pointy wires and he is discouraged.  Stings in the mouth do not discourage skunks, but being poked in the belly by little sharp wires does.  Go figure.  



Top cover off, opening the inner cover:



Removing the top super to get to the bottom, where the brood usually is. (That's the ideal setup--brood in the bottom of the hive, honey toward the top, though the bees do not always cooperate with this plan):



Removing a frame CAREFULLY and slowly so as not to crush the queen, as Her Highness is the most important bee in the hive.



Frame with bees, brood, pollen and honey.  Brood is the fuzzy brown stuff in the middle.  Pollen is the colorful stuff.  Honey is the stuff around the outside edges.  This is the normal pattern of a brood frame in a healthy hive, and what we all strive for, more or less.  Once again, sometimes the bees do not cooperate.



Some drone larvae pulled out for demonstration:



Bee larva with a varroa mite.  Part of the research going on here was varroa research.



Extraction process from last summer:

Uxb's dad spinning the extractor:



A view into the extractor.  Caps have been cut off of honey frames and the honey is being "spun" out of the comb using centrifugal force.



Honey coming out of the extractor and into the strainer.



Comb honey in jars:



Kitties

Ok, I am going to rapid fire some of these...

First, there was some question to my base...its simply a very old style (or cheap, who knows) that incorporates both the bottom board and the hive body.

Wow, almost sounds like I know what I am talking about.

I'll keep the supers and either ditch the bottom or hold onto it for keepsakes.  My great grandfather built it in the late 1800s, so there is some personal value to it.

That said...

Based on what I have researched so far I am REALLY digging the whole hive management thing and I can see what people find so appealing about it.

Still waiting on a response from the local Bee Keeping Association.

Some silly questions...

How many times do you get stung on average when dealing with the hives?  I just got nailed about 8 times by some wasps today that built a nest in one of the support brackets in my saw mill and I had to sit down for a bit.  Not a horrible reaction or anything, but damn if the spot where I got nailed itches like a MF'er.  I was reading on a forum that some guy got stung 200 times while hurriedly collecting a swarm that happened into his yard.

Its been such a long time since I got stung by a bee that I forget how painful they are.

How long does the comb honey last when bottled like that?  I never bothered researching that or gave it much thought since I buy it and use it as I go and never really store it.

Should I strip the supers down and repaint them or simply clean them out?

And to the question no one has asked yet.

What is up with the wax?

SO, I am looking at frames...then I noticed on the web, at stores, you have frames with wax, without wax, with a sheet of wax, rather than a strip of it at the top.  And so on.  What's the difference?  And does plastic over wood matter?

Originally Posted By Duranda1: Ok, I am going to rapid fire some of these... First, there was some question to my base...its simply a very old style (or cheap, who knows) that incorporates both the bottom board and the hive body. Wow, almost sounds like I know what I am talking about. I'll keep the supers and either ditch the bottom or hold onto it for keepsakes.  My great grandfather built it in the late 1800s, so there is some personal value to it. Dude, there is no WAY I would get rid of this equipment.  I would clean it up, paint it, and later USE it if you want to.  But I would not START with it.  Start with the standard stuff, so people will be able to help you solve the standard problems in the standard ways.  Does that make sense? That stuff my great grandfather made would be, to me, the most valuable possessions I had, as far as beekeeping stuff.   That said... Based on what I have researched so far I am REALLY digging the whole hive management thing and I can see what people find so appealing about it. Still waiting on a response from the local Bee Keeping Association. Some silly questions... How many times do you get stung on average when dealing with the hives?  I just got nailed about 8 times by some wasps today that built a nest in one of the support brackets in my saw mill and I had to sit down for a bit.  Not a horrible reaction or anything, but damn if the spot where I got nailed itches like a MF'er.  I was reading on a forum that some guy got stung 200 times while hurriedly collecting a swarm that happened into his yard. Okay, I can work hives and not get stung at all, cuz I wear gloves.  I suit up to work bees.  But you ARE going to get stung.  They'll get under your bee suit, they'll get up your pant leg cuz you'll forget your leg straps--you're just gonna get stung some.  But honeybee stings don't hurt NEARLY like a wasp sting.  Not to me anyhow.  Wasps hurt like freaking hell.  Uxb does not wear gloves during the season, and he gets stung a few times each time we go into the hives.  Once we get the bees pissed off, and you will if you keep messing with them, he has to go and put on gloves because once they're mad they're out for blood.  Some hives are more even tempered, some less so.  Some are just meaner.  The weather and other conditons will make a difference too.  So there is no set answer.  But you will get stung, but it doesn't have to be a lot.  But wasps are just plain mean and are looking for a fight as a rule.  Honeybees as a RULE, are not.  Okay, you will question this at some point and call me all kinds of names, but this is a generalization. Its been such a long time since I got stung by a bee that I forget how painful they are. Honey bee stings hurt, but after a while they hurt less--you kinda become immune a bit.  Catching a swarm without gloves is not something I would do.  You're going to make the bees mad.  You just ARE.  You're going to get nailed.  I would take the time to put on my jacket and gloves if I were catching a swarm.   But starting out, you're not likely to do that.  If you DO need to catch a swarm, get an experienced beekeeper to help you catch and hive it.  The first time is a little...well...nerve wracking.  But you will learn to trust yourself as you learn bee behavior.  You've gotta want bees awfully badly to catch a swarm with no protective gear.  I do not want bees that badly.   How long does the comb honey last when bottled like that?  I never bothered researching that or gave it much thought since I buy it and use it as I go and never really store it. Archeologists have found honey still edible in Egyptian tombs.  Honey, when put up at the proper moisture content, does not ruin.  It turns to sugar, but does not ruin. Should I strip the supers down and repaint them or simply clean them out? Okay, not sure I understand exactly what you're asking, so I'll try to answer eveyrthing.  I would scrape  the outside to remove any flaking/peeling paint and then put two coats of acrylic paint on all outside surfaces.  You do not paint the insides of the equipment.  Only the parts that will be exposed to weather (this includes top and bottom edges, but NOT the insides).  Does that make sense?  Clean the insides--I'd use a brush, and a scraper like a joint compound knife to get the propolis (that's the brown stuff that's hardened and sticks stuff together--it's the bee glue) off the surfaces as best you can.   Consider buying new frames this first time.  You'll be buying wax foundation anyhow, to get started, but you can do all that this winter.  For right now, concentrate on setting up the site and getting your equipment painted.  If you want to start with two hives, you'll need to get another hive body like the deep one you have, the screened bottom boards for both hives, and a super or two for the 2nd hive.  You MIGHT want to consider a second deep hive body for each hive.  That's what a lot of people do, but you don't have to.  AS you learn/read more, you'll see that some people keep bees in nothing but medium bodies, some nothing but deep bodies, etc.  The main concern with keeping eveyrthing in deeps is the weight.  A deep hive body like yours, full of honey, will weigh upwards of 90 lbs or so.  That's a lot of weight.  The first thing beekeepers lose is their backs.  When they're full, I cannot lift one alone.  I have to have uxb help me lift the supers off.  With mediums or shallows, I can lift these even full.  Oops, I digressed.  Imagine that..Me....getting off subject....ahem....uh... And to the question no one has asked yet. What is up with the wax? SO, I am looking at frames...then I noticed on the web, at stores, you have frames with wax, without wax, with a sheet of wax, rather than a strip of it at the top.  And so on.  What's the difference?  And does plastic over wood matter? Okay, wax is a whole other discussion.  Most beginning beekeepers start out with wax foundation in wood frames.  Plastic has its proponents, but bees don't like it as well as a rule, and when you're new, you want to give the bees what they like/will adjust to--are you noticing a pattern here?  It is MY opinion, and it's just that, MY OPINION, that a new beekeeper does well to keep things standard and learn bee behavior in standard conditions, using standard equipment, and proven techniques.  Then branch out to other stuff if that's to your liking.  But let's say your bees aren't doing well and you're on plastic foundation and everybody else around you is on wax.  How can they make a determination of what's wrong when there's not much to compare it to?  This is the basis of my suggestion.  Not that my way is the only way.  It certainly is not. There is also the question of small cell foundation vs regular foundation (we're talking wax here).  I am a proponent of small cell foundation for varroa control, because the science of it makes sense to me, and I want to avoid chemicals in the hives as much as possible.    BUT not everyone buys into this theory.   Sometimes when you use strips, the bees don't finish the frames well, or in my case, they finished the frames with cells the size of craters, which of course will be drone bees (I know you don't understand this yet, but you will.)  You don't want MORE drones as a rule.  Drones are the male bees.  They do no work.  They eat and wait to mate once and die.  You want workers.  Cuz they work.  They're all female.  Okay I am off subject again. When you look in the catalogs you will see frames for three sizes of hive bodies/supers.  You will see "deep" frames, "medium or "Illinois" frames, and "shallow" frames.  You will also see wax in these same sizes.  Wax comes imprinted with little "cells" on it.  This encourages the bees to build their cells that size.  The bees will "draw out" the wax, meaning they will build the comb on each side of the sheet of wax to the proper depth for whatever they're placing there--brood or honey.  When you go to your first bee meeting, you will find out that sometime this winter there will likely be a class on this, or one of the beekeepers will take you home and show you how to do this--to put wax in the frames and get them ready for the bees.  Not something you can learn easily on your own.  Best to have a tutor the first time.  Beekeepers are generally good folks.  They will help you. But this illustrates how important it is to have your equipment standard size.  So that if you buy some equipment, it will fit with the rest of your equipment (0kay, sometimes there are slight discrepancies from one company to another, but they are usually not too difficult to overcome, and when you find a company you like, you'll stick with that, or you'll build all your own equipment and it will fit, but the point is, make it STANDARD size, because there is this thing called BEE SPACE. Bee space is a given amount of space that is left between the elements of a standard bee hive.  This bee space is necessary for the bees to move about and do their work, and lots of studies have been done now on bee space.  Bee space is kind of important, and maintaining it correctly will make your life easier.  Your bees will behave more predicatably if correct bee space is maintained as much as possible. Okay the fact is, that bees build colonies in open tree trunks, house walls, whatever, and no bee space is maintained.  But we're managing our bees here, in theory, so in good hive management, we maintain bee space.

Hmmmm.  I have no idea whether I've answered everything or not.  Maybe just made it muddier.  I'll stop here and look and maybe you'll have more questions.  If I've confused you, say so.  I'll make it clear somehow.

ETA:  If you're building only a few frames, you can do it without a jig.  (Jigs are for sale too--cheap, but all this "cheap" stuff adds up to some bucks).  If you're building, say, 100 frames, you'll want to buy the jigs.  To install WAX in the frames, you'll need a couple of devices.  A Foundation device, a device to hold the wire so you can properly put wire in the frames, and a tool of some type to embed the wire into the wax.  Dang.  Maybe in the next couple of days I can get out my stuff and build some equipment and wire up some frames and put in some wax so you can see.  Uxb could take pics while I do this.  

Anyhow, ALL your equipment is gonna arrive to you unassembled.  You will have to assemble it with the nails included, and use wood glue.  You will be glad later, because this equipment supports a lot of weight and goes through a lot of stresses, and supports this weight and stress while it's being moved around and manipulated all over.  So you want your equipment assembled as well and made as strong as possible.  

The steps will be:

Build or buy equipment
Assemble boxes
Paint boxes
Paint boxes with a second coat
Assemble frames
Install wax in frames
Install wire in frames
Embed wire into wax

Put frames in bodies
Set up bodies on bases of some sort (concrete blocks) preferably on some permanent weed barrier in your carefully chosen location
Bring home bees and install in boxes with frames of wax.

Ta-da!  You are a beekeeper!

The bees will then proceed to draw out the wax, the queen will lay eggs in it, and the workers will divide up responsibilities and go to work keeping house (house bees) taking care of brood (nurse bees) and foraging (field bees) as well as guarding the hive (guard bees).  

You will attempt to get them to do this in the order and way you would like.  Sometimes they will cooperate, sometimes they will not.  Welcome to beekeeping.


Kitties

You answered my questions.

Just a note...I'd never get rid of ANYTHING I have, was just curious if I should put it aside or try to refurb it.


Not only did everything make sense, but the ONLY question I have is the difference between the wax strip and the the preformed wax.

Do you actually make your own sheets or just draw the wire across and bed the wax at the top?

Is the wire in the preformed redi-built frame you purchase?

Thank you very much for your help!

You rock and UXB rocks too!

Originally Posted By Duranda1: You answered my questions. Just a note...I'd never get rid of ANYTHING I have, was just curious if I should put it aside or try to refurb it. Keep it for sure.  Decide later if you want to use it.  The boxes on top are all standard though, or so it appears in the pics. You can use those, or save them just because they were your great grandfather's.   Not only did everything make sense, but the ONLY question I have is the difference between the wax strip and the the preformed wax. Do you actually make your own sheets or just draw the wire across and bed the wax at the top?Okay, not sure I understand this question.  From the dealers I use, I cannot buy frames with wax in place.  I have to put the wax in the frames.  With plastic foundation, it's usually a frame/foundation all in one piece, and I think you can get white or black, and some beekeekpers tout the benefits of certain colors, etc. I use wood frames and install my own wax.  It is real beeswax, and the dealers take melted wax they get from beekeepers, melt it down and form it into sheets of the correct size for the particular frames you are using.   The time I tried just the wax strip at the top, I did so because I didn't have enough foundation and needed to install some supers to prevent a colony from swarming.  They needed more room FAST, so I cut complete sheets into strips and put the strips in.  Normally I install whole sheets.  The strips did not work well for me.  My bees did not handle them well at all.  Some people use exclusively strips though.  But I think you might want to start with the whole sheets, so you can see what the comb looks like drawn correctly and will know if your bees are doing it right.  Once you've been through a season, you'll know what to look for. Is the wire in the preformed redi-built frame you purchase? Let me break this down into steps so I answer it correctly.   1)  First, I have never bought redi-built frames.  I have bought frames that I had to assemble.  I don't even know if you CAN BUY redi-built frames, but I suppose you could, for a premium price.  You'll just be paying for someone else's labor cuz they put them together for you.   2) No wire is installed in the frames.  Now let me make sure we are speaking of the same things here.  In your pics, that little wooden open item you're holding with the bits of wax/comb hanging down from the top bar?  That's the frame.  Okay, see the wire that runs across the frame?  Your great grandfather put that in there (or whoever used this equipment last).  The purpose of the wire is to lend rigidity and strength to the comb for purposes of extraction, and the forces put on a frame full of honey during handling/extraction are fairly extreme.  The wire is even more important in brood frames, because we tend to use these over several years, and it has to hold the weight of brood, honey and pollen while we beekeepers remove the frames from teh hive, turn them all kinds of directions to inspect them, mess with them, etc.  In short, bee products are heavy and the comb is less likely to fall out of the frames if it has wire in it, which when embedded in the wax foundation, then becomes part of the comb itself--the bees build the comb around it--so it kind of holds it in the frames.  Does this make sense? Now, something I forgot: 3) You can buy "wired" foundation.   Look again at the frame from your grandfather's hives.  See that the wire runs horizontally across the frame?  (there are other patterns you can do--X patterns or whatever, but this one or two wires is most common.)  Okay when you buy "wired" foundation, there are wires running vertically through the foundation--very small diameter wires--with ends sticking out the top, and you use these ends to "tuck underneath" the little wedge of wood that you nail across the frame top, thus supporting the sheet of foundation from the top.  Most folks then place one or two horizontal wires through the foundation, and have a very stable sheet of wax for the bees to use in building comb.  NOW:  NOTICE THAT YOU CAN BUY WIRED OR UNWIRED FOUNDATION.  If you're making comb honey, you're going to cut the comb up with the honey IN IT and place it in the jars to eat/sell.  You do not use wire for this comb.  If you are going to extract the honey, most people use wire. Some people use no wire.  Other people use lots of wire.  I'm a proponent of wire because sometimes the bees anchor the comb to the sides of the frame really solidly, and sometimes they don't.  This is my insurance.   It's a bit of an art learning to stretch the wire tightly enough across the frames to really hold the wax nice and solid.  This is part of what you learn by watching an experienced beekeeper and getting help your first time. Now, have I made things clearer or muddier? Thank you very much for your help! You rock and UXB rocks too!

You are welcome, and I will assume you will have more questions, though I dunno.  I may have skeered ya off.  Anyhow, if you were to begin attending your beekeeper association meetings asap, and attend through the fall and winter, by the time spring comes and your first bees arrive, you'll know a whole ton of stuff.  This stuff I'm telling you will all be old news.  Winter Jan/Feb are when most associations hold their annual "bee schools" around the region.  It's normally an all-day event, costs a few dollars maximum, and will have a "beginning beekeeping" track.  You should attend and take this track.  You can gain a whole lot of education very quickly through a few meetings and one of these schools.  Plus, you'll make acquaintances from your area/region/state, and you'll likely meet your state apiarists.  These apiarists will be the people who you'll send specimens to if you have questions about disease or problems with your bees that the locals aren't sure about.  They will all become your friends, are generally really good folk, and welcome new beekeepers.  

Beekeeping is not  Nascar.  It's not something just any old body will take up and go with.  It's also what feeds our population to a large extent.  Beekeepers are always recruiting new beekeepers.  We need more.  It's a good thing to do for yourself, your community and the world in general.  And it's FUN and can be profitable too.  It takes kind of a special person to fall in love with boxes of bugs.  

You might consider--since you're considering lots anyhow--consider beekeeping in ALL MEDIUM BODIES--also called "Illinois" supers.  There is some research that shows that colonies overwinter better in all Illinois supers/bodies because they don't have to go as far to get to the fresh food and the "ball" of bees that forms when the overwinter (this is a whole nuther topic) covers more than one frame up and down through the hive.  Okay I haven't said this very well at all, but there IS significant research that says bees do better when they have both brood nest and honey in Medium bodies.  

If I had it to do over again, I would probably do this--all medium bodies.  Which means you would buy medium bodies, medium frames and medium wax to go in the frames.  

THEN ALL OF YOUR EQUIPMENT IS TRULY INTERCHANGEABLE.  I can't tell you how positive this would be.  Sometimes I have extra frames but no shallow frames, and shallow is what I need for my honey supers, cuz I use shallow honey supers.  The WEIGHT is another factor.  I can lift a medium full of honey (though it is hard to lift--mainly because of it's shape.  You just can't get under it.  So it ends up being all back and arm/shoulder muscle work--not easy for a five-foot 115-lb woman, even if she is a bit of a hardass. ) I can NOT lift a deep full of honey or brood/honey without hurting myself.  I have done it.  I did it last summer when I had a hive apart and a thunderstorm appeared--POOF--out of nowhere.  The bees were about to get wet, along with brood and honey and all the stuff inside what's supposed to be a dry hive.  I was by myself, with no time, so I just did it.  And I hurt my back.  Chiropractor and massage therapist loved me last summer.

Anyhow, just something to consider.  I can recommend some cheap books (and some not so cheap) if you want some good references.  

But you already have what looks like one deep hive body and two or three shallow supers, so you may want to go the traditional way with this.  All is up to you.  But I thought I would mention it.  There's a guy named Michael somebody--he's a dude from Canada--on BeeSource.com, and he has gone to strictly medium bodies--he's a huge advocate of this--has even cut all his deeps down to mediums and tells how to do it on the forum.  It's archived somewhere.  He's a very experienced beekeeper with a lot of knowledge.

BUT, he's also the one who suggested I try the wax strips, and that did not work for me AT ALL.  My bees just made one helluva mess.  I had to cut out part of the comb, they built some comb crossways and ignored the frames, etc.  

Bees have a mind of their own and once they decide to do something they'll do it unless you set them up to do what you want.  And even then.....well....I'll hush or I am gonna scare you off for real.

Mostly they're very cooperative.  

Oh, and I keep forgetting, Duranda1:  I never did get when the last time this equipment was used?  This is important.  I suspect it has been used MORE RECENTLY than your great grandfather's time, because the wire in that frame was secured with a staple gun I think.  And I don't think staple guns were around when he was beekeeping.  

American Foulbrood is one of the worst diseases beekeepers now face.  There is a lot to learn about it, but it can rest in old equipment like this for as much as 70 years in the form of spores.  It's, as far as they know now, a "sporulating bacteria" (which sounds like a freakin alien pod creature to this horticulturist).  But if you get this disease, you will end up burning your equipment and your bees.  Heartbreaking and expensive.  

So you do need to answer this question before you consider using that equipment.  It is unlikely that this disease rests in your equipment, but if you have a sense of when it was last used and why that beekeeper got out of beekeeping, you will be able to proceed without worry.

Kitties

Ok, talked to my old man...he said his uncle used it for a brief period of time in the 50s.  It was one of the reasons why he was surprised to see it in the barn (we went through it separating useable, but old farm gear (like a REALLY nice apple press and a corn wheel mill).  As a kid he used to help his uncle cut the comb prior to extraction and he thought ALL the hives had been moved over (and subsequently lost in a fire in the late 70s).

Anyways, so yeah, about 50 years ago was the last use.

So, rather than get a kit, you are suggesting (and I have not read up on anything  more advanced than the basics at this point) that I should simply buy the Illinois Supers for both the Super and the Body?

Not a problem, just clarifying.  It certainly makes sense from a "modular" swapping and logistics standpoint.

Does that mean there is more room for expansion of the hive too?  Since you are not using a Shallow?  More brood?

I had bees for nearly 30 years.   for a while was over 30 hives .  had them on pallets of 4 and took them to several blueberry patches for pollination.  a few years ago I cut back to abotu 5 hives.  then  2 years ago gave those to our neighbor kids for therir 4H project.     They had started the year before with hives they got from someone else and found that those had foulbrood and had to destroy them.  I sold them my extractor and now they have 6 hives.  This year they won grand and reserve grand champion honey at the fair.    I still help them with the hives but don't  have the work myself.  (Also we get all the honey we can use)  This year honey production has been excellent.  nearly 60 lb average   The rest will be left on for the bees overwinter.  

Originally Posted By km: I had bees for nearly 30 years.   for a while was over 30 hives .  had them on pallets of 4 and took them to several blueberry patches for pollination.  a few years ago I cut back to abotu 5 hives.  then  2 years ago gave those to our neighbor kids for therir 4H project.     They had started the year before with hives they got from someone else and found that those had foulbrood and had to destroy them.  I sold them my extractor and now they have 6 hives.  This year they won grand and reserve grand champion honey at the fair.    I still help them with the hives but don't  have the work myself.  (Also we get all the honey we can use)  This year honey production has been excellent.  nearly 60 lb average   The rest will be left on for the bees overwinter.

Very cool that you passed on your vocation to these kids.  Thumbs up to you.

Please chime in here with what you know and other perspectives for the new people.  It's always good to have more information and other opinions.  You have much more experience than I do as well.  

You know, you ask ten beekeepers, you'll get eleven opinions.    I think that's sometimes a good thing.

Kitties

Originally Posted By Duranda1: Ok, talked to my old man...he said his uncle used it for a brief period of time in the 50s.  It was one of the reasons why he was surprised to see it in the barn (we went through it separating useable, but old farm gear (like a REALLY nice apple press and a corn wheel mill).  As a kid he used to help his uncle cut the comb prior to extraction and he thought ALL the hives had been moved over (and subsequently lost in a fire in the late 70s). Anyways, so yeah, about 50 years ago was the last use. So, rather than get a kit, you are suggesting (and I have not read up on anything  more advanced than the basics at this point) that I should simply buy the Illinois Supers for both the Super and the Body? Not a problem, just clarifying.  It certainly makes sense from a "modular" swapping and logistics standpoint. Does that mean there is more room for expansion of the hive too?  Since you are not using a Shallow?  More brood?

Random ramblings about the above questions:  

Okay, I'm assuming your great uncle did not get out of beekeeping because of any sort of disease then.  If so, you're probably good.  You might, if you use this equipment, wipe it out with bleach water, or take a handheld sprayer with a bleach solution and just spray down the insides, then let it dry.  But honestly, I doubt there is any disease harbored in those hives.  Your dad would have said so if some disease or pest drove his uncle out of beekeeping, right?

AS far as using all mediums for beekeeping, it MOSTLY for convenience of the beekeeper.

The STANDARD practice is to use deep bodies for the brood nest (normally this ends up being two, though there are beekeepers who use only one) and shallows or mediums for the honey supers.  This alternative method I'm bringing to your attention is to use mediums for everything, both brood nest and honey supers.  This just makes all your equipment interchangeable, which is nice.

I would not, and have been told by older more experienced beekeepers that THEY would not--even by this Michael person on BeeSource--that they would not use shallows for brood nest.  Not enough room in the frame for a good "oval" of brood, plus enough pollen nearby and enough honey nearby to care for the brood.  That's what the polllen and honey stored on those frames is for--to feed the brood before it is capped over.  That way the nurse bees don't have to track all over the hive to get food for the brood.

The honey stored in the top of the hive--the "honey supers" is the "extra" honey the bees are putting up to use to live through the winter.  It is up to the beekeeper to estimate how much the hive will need for the winter and LEAVE THAT FOR THEM--even if it means taking some honey from hives with excess and giving it to hives with not enough--so everybody makes it--you NEVER take all the honey.  You ALWAYS leave them enough plus a little--plan for your worst winter, in other words.  The rest is yours.  Some years that's not much.  Some years that's a lot.  Like any other agricultural crop, the yield varies.  

Nothing wrong with a kit BTW.  BUT if you do get a kit, most kits still do not come with SBBs, and many come with plastic outer covers.  I would ask the bee supplier to swap out the normal bottom board for a SBB, and the plastic top cover for a wooden one, even if it costs a couple dollars extra. At my suppliers, they are fine with doing this.  I dunno about yours.  Plastic tends to sweat more--does not breathe at all--and I've heard that sometimes this means more moisture in the hive.  A bad thing.  Plastic has its proponents though, and you local people may say they like it for where you are.  

I'm just offering the alternative possibilities--and you should do a lot of reading and research and see what your local folks think before you jump and take the plunge.  You COULD do one of each--using the deep hive body you have, and the shallow supers for one hive, and purchase only mediums for the rest of your equipment, planning to retire this older equipment as you go along.  That way you could observe the differences in the way the bees handle the deep/shallow combo vs the mediums.  Of course, this introduces another element and keeps you from having a direct comparison, but you know what?  Different bee colonies behave differently no matter what.  So there's only so much comparison you can do.  I just thought I'd mention the mediums up front, cuz now that I'm into it, I have a lot of bodies, and I wish I'd gone with all mediums.  

But that's just me, and I'm a small woman trying to muscle around these deep bodies.  What that means is that generally I "take apart" each body when I need to move it--I have an extra body on my bee wagon, and I move the bees, frame by frame, into that extra body, then take the body off to get to the lower one to work it, etc.  Then when I put the hive back together, I put the deep back on top, then "re-assemble" the hive frame by frame.  I tend to make the bees madder this way, but it's just the way it is.  When I have to lift the entire body full of frames, I end up squishing a lot of bees because it's so awkward and heavy I can't manage it easily.

Is this clear?

So you are likely bigger than me and stronger than me, but even all the male beekeepers I know complain about their backs and the weight.  

So there you go.  

Oh, and to your last question:  Generally we like to keep the brood in the bottom one or two bodies.  You don't want the queen laying eggs and raising brood up in the honey supers.  

Okay this may seem obvious to you, but in case it doesn't---you want the hive to keep all its brood to grow strong.  You want to take the honey for you.  Difficult to take honey when it's all mixed in with brood.  See?  Some people use queen excluders to keep the queen OUT of the honey supers so she can't lay up there.  But what I've just said?  Ask THAT question in a bunch of beekeepers and you open up a major can of worms.  Many of them call it a "honey excluder" instead of a queen excluder, cuz the bees have to work a little harder to get up into the supers to put in honey.  No doubt, it does slow them down a bit.  I have never used one, but if I had a queen that insisted on laying up top instead of down in teh bottom brood chamber, I would put one on.  Usually if you manage your hives properly this is not a problem.  Just sometimes.  

Anyhow, you're going to manage your hives so the brood nest stays down low, and the honey stays up high.  Expansion of the hive is, theoretically, infinite.  I have seen stacks of supers twenty high.  This is not stable, and the guy had 2x4s and poles propping up the stack.  Better to remove those supers that are full, and put other empty ones on--or extract the honey and put the supers back on empty for the bees to refill--are you getting the picture?  I think the guy was just doing that to see how many they would actually fill.  It's common to see eight or ten though.  Look at the picture of Bobby-the-hun's bee yard in this thread.  See the combinations of deeps and supers?  SEe how many he has on there?  He's managing each hive separately, which is what you will do.  Give each one what it needs when it needs it (unless you're like me and have a year when there is just no time, and the bees have to fend for themselves without any management.--I dread going into my hives I bet it's a mess in there).

SO--the bees can make brood nests in deeps, and they can make brood nests in mediums.  THEY CAN make brood nests in shallows, but it is not recommended.  It is up to you as the beekeeper to decide what you wish to provide for your ease of management and the well being of your bees.

But BEFORE you buy more equipment, I wanted to mention the possibilities.  I hope it's helpful rather than more confusing.  Wait until you get with some local beekeepers and talk with them.  They'll all have opinions.  Do some research by reading on BeeSource.  Even  the guy you see working the hives in my thread from the KU research facility--his name is Tom something--he's a professor working on specifically varroa, and now SHB research--even HE suggested I might rather choose all mediums.  I think it's when he saw me and realized I would be the primary beekeeper rather than my husband.  But he said "remember, you don't have to move it all at once.  You can move it a frame at a time".  True, usually.  But there came a time when I had to lift the whole thing, and it hurt.

Kitties

Duranda1:  Notice what KM has said in this post.  It is important.

Originally Posted By km: I had bees for nearly 30 years.   for a while was over 30 hives .  had them on pallets of 4 and took them to several blueberry patches for pollination.  a few years ago I cut back to abotu 5 hives.  then  2 years ago gave those to our neighbor kids for therir 4H project.     They had started the year before with hives they got from someone else and found that those had foulbrood and had to destroy them. I sold them my extractor and now they have 6 hives.  This year they won grand and reserve grand champion honey at the fair.    I still help them with the hives but don't  have the work myself.  (Also we get all the honey we can use)  This year honey production has been excellent.  nearly 60 lb average   The rest will be left on for the bees overwinter.

This is what I'm trying to avoid for you.  Make SURE you know the place you're getting bees and/or equipment is clean.  If inspections are not required in your state, ask for them to get one--this is if you're buying from a local beekeeper--either equipment or bees.    If you're buying package bees from a package producer, they get inspected regularly.  You still might get pests in with the bees, but you won't get a disease like foulbrood.  This is heartbreaking.  You begin to think of your colonies as sentient--okay, I believe they are somewhat--although sentient like borg--but that's just me and has nothing to do with your viewpoint.  But beekeepers generally care about their bees in the same way any agriculturalist cares for his cattle or any person cares for an animal in his/her charge.  To have to kill them and then burn them--it's awful.  I'm glad these kids were determined enough to keep going, and had a neighbor who had experience and was willing to help.  

Quote by Duranda:

(we went through it separating useable, but old farm gear (like a REALLY nice apple press and a corn wheel mill).

OMG  What a find.  Dude, you lucked out.


Is that corn wheel mill the kind that SHELLS corn, or the kind that grinds it?  We had a corn sheller at the farm while I was growing up.  It was the coolest thing ever.  I've never seen one since and I bet this one got either sold, given away, or ended up in a sink hole.    I lost track of it and by the time I was old enough and started looking around for it, it was gone.  

Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Is that corn wheel mill the kind that SHELLS corn...

Yes, it is.  Growing yellow corn this year too, so I'll be milling a little bit for myself and make some REAL corn meal and tortillas this year.  Super lucky find.  So is the apple press.  Has all the wood press disks and original buckets (which I may not be able to use).  I won't be able to try the press out till next year really.  Early frost and solid drought have wrecked the apples this year.

I always try to store the stuff for years we are doing soybeans, but damn if the weevils invade EVERY time.  I'm going to try freezing this year.

Major off topic-ness there though.

I have to say, everything, without knowing anything really seems to make a lot of sense.

Briefly, how do you winterize the bees?  Besides making sure they have plenty of food?  Miller Bee Supply seems to be the least expensive, Mann Lake Ltd. seems to have a huge selection, and

If you and UXB ever need any wood or saw mill help let me know.  :)  You, and everyone participating really, have been so helpful.  I love these threads that are a gold mine of information.

That said, you made a comment about getting kits.

I am still out on the whole kit thing.  None of the kits I have seen so far suit exactly what I need and seem to cost more than if I pieced them out and got more specific stuff...maybe not, maybe its the manufacturing pricing.  Who do you buy through?  I have about 6 companies bookmarked that ranged in prices.

Kitties,  good thread about bees.  I also want to  emphasize the importance of getting healthy colonies.  It is very expensive and discouraging to have to destroy them and start over.  Most of the equipment I geve the neighbor kids was new so we knew it was good.   any used boxes we treated with clorox and flame.    In the early stages foulbrood can often me missed.  the person the kids got their first start from is an experienced beekeeper and president of the local beekeepers association,  so if it would have been very evident he should have caught it before they got the colonies.  They aslo have my observation hive with glass sides that we set up in the fall at their corn maze.  I have a farm show there with antique farm equikpment.   one of the items I show is my 1915 stone wheel Williams mill.  
I don't want to hijack this thread so will start another one with a link to pictures of the mill.

here is the new thread
williams mill

Originally Posted By Duranda1: I always try to store the stuff for years we are doing soybeans, but damn if the weevils invade EVERY time.  I'm going to try freezing this year.I don't have much experience with this, but what little I have has taught me that freezing is the only way. Briefly, how do you winterize the bees?  Besides making sure they have plenty of food?  Basically, here in the next month or so, I'll go into my hives, clean them up a little (since I've ignored them all year), I'll shift the top brood chamber to the bottom probably--if they've put honey down there and started brood up top, and make sure they have plenty of honey to make it through the winter.   ETA:  You want the bees in the bottom in the fall because they tend to move "up" through the hive as winter progresses.  If they hit the top of the hive, they often will not move down again.  They just don't like to go down.  So they could potentially hit the top of the hive and then sit there and starve. Then I'll put a deep hive body empty on top of the stack and begin feeding my bees sugar syrup.  I will feed all fall and into the winter as long as it's not freezing.  And in warm spells throughout the winter I'll go in and give them food to supplement what they have.  In the spring when I think they've begun raising brood again, I'll begin feeding a thinned-down sugar syrup mixture, which will encourage them to draw new wax and start raising even more brood.  AS far as winterizing, I just set them up the best I can, and make sure the hive has ventilation.  Moisture, here is the bees worst winter enemy.  The warm interior of the hive, contrasted with the cold outside air, can cause condensation in the hive and it "rains" on the bees inside.  Then the moisture freezes of course--bad news...dead bees.  This is why many beeekeepers leave the screens open on their hives year-round.  The bees' ability to form their ball and survive is actually better if they stay dry and well-ventilated.  I don't do this.  I put in the plastic board, but I put matchsticks under the edges of the top cover to leave a slight crack (you'll understand how this is not open to the weather when you look closely at how the hive is constructed) which creates a draft of air through the hive.  When it warms up in spring, I remove the bottom plastic board a little at a time. Each beekeeper will handle the winter care a little differently, and it may vary some by climate zone.  I don't know where in Ohio you are, so I don't know how much further north you are than me, or what your winter climate is like. Miller Bee Supply seems to be the least expensive, Mann Lake Ltd. seems to have a huge selection, and If you and UXB ever need any wood or saw mill help let me know.  :)  You, and everyone participating really, have been so helpful.  I love these threads that are a gold mine of information. That said, you made a comment about getting kits. I am still out on the whole kit thing.  None of the kits I have seen so far suit exactly what I need and seem to cost more than if I pieced them out and got more specific stuff...maybe not, maybe its the manufacturing pricing.  Who do you buy through?  I have about 6 companies bookmarked that ranged in prices.  I buy from Kelley Bee Supply (Walter T. Kelley Company, because they're about an hour north of me and I can go up there and have formed a good relationship with the ladies in the office.  Just nice folks.  Rob Mountain (one of the advisors/moderators on BeeSource btw) has opened a DAdant branch in Lexington though, and I've gotten a few things from him.  I buy my small cell foundation from Brushy Mountain, cuz Kelley doesn't have it.  But I don't like Brushy Mountain's woodenware.  I think it's not built well--holes don't line up, etc.  I got a solar wax melter from them last fall.  If uxb were not a woodworker and didn't have a garage full of pipe clamps to force the thing into position, it would have been unusable.  We would never have been able to assemble it.  The fact that it's made of cypress does not offset the poor craftsmanship for me.  I've also traded frames with someone and gotten some of theirs (I needed to borrow a few frames and replaced them when I ordered, etc).  The Brushy Mountain frames had splits and were cut from poor quality lumber with knots right where you needed to drive nails, etc.  Now, Brushy Mountain has a lot of fans, and they're really nice people too, so I don't mean to diss them.  But this has been my experience.  Maybe just a fluke.  Kelley's stuff, for the money, has been the best I've used at its price point.  But I have not ordered from too many companies, since I can drive up there and save the shipping costs.

Originally Posted By km: Kitties,  good thread about bees.  I also want to  emphasize the importance of getting healthy colonies.  It is very expensive and discouraging to have to destroy them and start over.  Most of the equipment I geve the neighbor kids was new so we knew it was good.   any used boxes we treated with clorox and flame.    In the early stages foulbrood can often me missed.  the person the kids got their first start from is an experienced beekeeper and president of the local beekeepers association,  so if it would have been very evident he should have caught it before they got the colonies.  They aslo have my observation hive with glass sides that we set up in the fall at their corn maze.  I have a farm show there with antique farm equikpment.   one of the items I show is my 1915 stone wheel Williams mill.   I don't want to hijack this thread so will start another one with a link to pictures of the mill. here is the new thread williams mill

Wow KM, that's surprising about the beekeeper and the foulbrood.  It must have been in its really early stages for him to have not recognized it.  I bet the kids were brokenhearted to have to kill their bees and watch them burn.

I keep bees as well :) we are in central VA.  I run 6 colonies of new world carniolans, and use permacomb (works great - no assembly - smaller cells or small cell if coated - no wax moths - and can extract as fast as you want) in all of them.  I also use a ventilated hive setup called the DE hive that makes some great changes to a standard langstroth hive.  It adds an "attic" to the hive to help control heat, it re-orients the frames so you can work the hive from the back and not the side.  For Newbies I would recommend picking up "The Hive and the Honeybee" It is well worth the money for this great book! Beekeeping for Dummies is not bad either, and has some great photographs.

Chris Williams

Originally Posted By dcwilliams: I keep bees as well :) we are in central VA.  I run 6 colonies of new world carniolans, and use permacomb (works great - no assembly - smaller cells or small cell if coated - no wax moths - and can extract as fast as you want) in all of them.  I also use a ventilated hive setup called the DE hive that makes some great changes to a standard langstroth hive.  It adds an "attic" to the hive to help control heat, it re-orients the frames so you can work the hive from the back and not the side.   Chris Williams

Chris, Interesting!  If you get a chance to take any pics when you're working your hives, I'd love to see that setup.

Duranda, see right here is a plastic foundation enthusiast.  This is what's so valuable about different opinions.  

We have several beekeepers here who like the NWCarniolans too.  I have tried only Italians thus far.  We have a guy in the next county who has been in a state program to develop locally raised queens, and I've gotten my best queens from him thus far.  Italians, but locally raised.  

Chris, where did you get your bees?  I'm loving the whole attic thing.  Looking at the pics of Duranda1's original great grandfather hive, it looks like he has a garden-style top with an attic as well.  This, as a heat and ventilation control method, just makes sense to me.

I also recommend Beekeeping for Dummies.  I have that book.  The Hive and the Honeybee is expensive, but it is unparalleled as a reference.  Even an older copy (which could be had cheaper maybe) is a good bet.

The DE hives can be seen here: http://www.beeworks.com/modkit.html.  I use the modification Mr. Eyre builds for the langstroth.  I do have 1 complete DE hive as well, and like it a lot.  Just cut down on the shipping and costs by converting the rest of my Langstroth's with the mod kit. Here is the importer of Permacombs web page: http://www.beesource.com/bee-l/bulletinboard/seets/permacomb.htm. www.besource.com is also a great resource.

Chris

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: I had one at my house--which turned into three via swarming.  I had two which died last winter and they were repopulated via swarming due to my neglect of not putting supers on the one strong one which remained.  They all appear to be doing well now.  I will feed next month as needed for the winter.  I have several more at my farm in Missouri--I hived one swarm and otherwise haven't touched them.  They haven't been worked for about three years.  They don't NEED a beekeeper's touch, especially if they have two hive bodies and a super (or two)--it just helps.   My losses have been, to a one, failure to get a good replacement queen.  I have to wonder about the queens I'm using.  They're GREAT queens, but whether the drone stock is less fertile???? Once I get behind schedule and  the queen swarms and the hive makes a new one, they fail.  I have no idea whether they're simply not good replacements or if they never make it through the mating cycle or what.  There's been a lot of discussion around here that overuse/improper use of chemicals in the big package/queen producers down south has resulted in infertile drones, or queens that are good only for three to six months rather than the two years or so that should be a normal average. Anyhow, although my ideal would be to replace with a queen of my choice, I've failed to do so, and the replacement queens my colonies have produced have frequently not been viable. The only queens I ever bought were the Belfast ones from quite a few years ago.  I was not impressed and haven't bothered to try it again.

buck fast?

Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Here's my yard mysite.verizon.net/kaiak/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DSCF0008a.JPG

bobby, I'm betting you have hive beetles pretty bad...?  that partial shade is not good for bees.  they need full sun, esp. up north. I keep my SC hives in full sun on clay land no shade.

life cycle of small hive beetle requires it to burrow into the ground.  they like shady ground.  so having your hives close to shade, even though they are not shaded themselves, may aid in the life cycle of SHB. Windbreak is important, but if this fall or spring you are overrun with SHB worms, the windbreak will have been  a mouse turd in a road full of elephant poop

FWIW, all latest research shows that good hive management and keeping strong healthy hives renders SHB far less of a problem than it was expected to be.  

SHB larvae crawl 60-100 feet easily from the hive (at first the idea was that we could put barriers below the hives and STOP the beetles--research shows not so).  So given, as FordGuy says, that shade MAY aid in the life cycle of SHB, and windbreaks are important, I think each beekeeper has to chose his/her site based on weather conditions and ideals in his/her particular situation.  Many folks would have a hard time finding a location far enough away from a tree to keep the larvae from crawling to it.

I have not heard any news that has said for beekeepers, who have long used windbreaks at the back of their hives, to move them all out into full all-day sun.  However, lots of beekeepers DO have their hives in full sun, but I haven't seen any studies that show they have fewer SHBs than those who place their hives near trees.

I think, for a new beekeeper, it is best to not overwhelm them with all that can go wrong, lest even with the collective wisdom of many years and lots of good written references, they never begin.

SHB had made it as far north as Kentucky last fall.  

Originally Posted By dcwilliams: The DE hives can be seen here: http://www.beeworks.com/modkit.html.  I use the modification Mr. Eyre builds for the langstroth.  I do have 1 complete DE hive as well, and like it a lot.  Just cut down on the shipping and costs by converting the rest of my Langstroth's with the mod kit. Here is the importer of Permacombs web page: http://www.beesource.com/bee-l/bulletinboard/seets/permacomb.htm. www.besource.com is also a great resource. Chris

Thanks for the reference Chris.  I want to see these.

Originally Posted By FordGuy: Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Here's my yard mysite.verizon.net/kaiak/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DSCF0008a.JPG bobby, I'm betting you have hive beetles pretty bad...?  that partial shade is not good for bees.  they need full sun, esp. up north. I keep my SC hives in full sun on clay land no shade.

I have not experienced hive beetles in my area, but I do saturate the ground with GardStar by Y-TEX. My hives, get full sun a little after sunrise till about 1 pm, then shade.  I will have to make adjustments next season. As for the hives beetles, I am not sure if they are in NJ yet.

Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:SHB larvae crawl 60-100 feet easily from the hive (at first the idea was that we could put barriers below the hives and STOP the beetles--research shows not so).  So given, as FordGuy says, that shade MAY aid in the life cycle of SHB, and windbreaks are important, I think each beekeeper has to chose his/her site based on weather conditions and ideals in his/her particular situation.  Many folks would have a hard time finding a location far enough away from a tree to keep the larvae from crawling to it.

Man, I never even thought about a wind break.  Is this absolutely necessary?  I've been thinking about WHERE to place the hives next year when I get to walking the talk and I have three possible ones.

What constitutes a wind break?  A row of bushes?  A privacy fence?  A stand of trees?

How far from a populated area should the be?  I am defining populated as my garden, fruit trees, and vines...and the cyclists on the country road (we get LOTS of cyclists from Cincinnati doing a circuit route through...the road bisects our farm).

Oh, BTW, I am just North of you guys in North Bend, Ohio.  :)  I'll be looking into the SouthWestern Ohio Beekeepers Association the weekend on September 8th and see if I can't find someone local to apprentice out to or something.

http://www.swoba.org/

I agree with the sun comments... The bees get to work sooner in the day when they get early sunlight, however, the hives tend to get a little hot if in full sun all day long.  full morning sun and afternoon shade would be ideal, but this is not always possible.  Windbreaks help with many things, including bees drifting to a hive next to it.  One mistake a lot of beekeepers make is to put hives to close to one another.  You will wind up with one really strong hive and a so-so hive.  This is sometimes due to field bees drifting to the other hive that is upwind.   I wouldn't put more than a few hives in one spot for this reason.  If you have the space, spread them out a little.  SHB is not yet in my part of VA, but when it does get here they won't be happy with the permacomb they find in my hives, because they can't eat it :)  neither can wax moths.  If it gets a little nasty you wash it off with a pressure washer and stick it back in a hive for the bees to do the rest. Plus the cell size is a little smaller than commercial wax, and I think the smaller cell sizes (5.1 for PC I think - and if you wax coat it - its 4.9) help with Varroa (I'm a believer in 4.9mm SC, from personal and others experiences).

Chris

Hey Chris, do you have any photos of your hives?  I'd like to see how you have yours set up and if possible the artificial comb.

I have to be honest, I never even considered the plastic comb, but it sounds like there might be benefits from it.  Do you give them some sort of starter wax to boost them or something or do the bees just take to it?

Super newb here who won't actually be elbows deep till next year.

Originally Posted By Duranda1: Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:SHB larvae crawl 60-100 feet easily from the hive (at first the idea was that we could put barriers below the hives and STOP the beetles--research shows not so).  So given, as FordGuy says, that shade MAY aid in the life cycle of SHB, and windbreaks are important, I think each beekeeper has to chose his/her site based on weather conditions and ideals in his/her particular situation.  Many folks would have a hard time finding a location far enough away from a tree to keep the larvae from crawling to it. Man, I never even thought about a wind break.  Is this absolutely necessary?  I've been thinking about WHERE to place the hives next year when I get to walking the talk and I have three possible ones. What constitutes a wind break?  A row of bushes?  A privacy fence?  A stand of trees?No.  Not absolutely necessary.  Just nice to help with winter wind, with straight line winds if you get a lot of those where you are (notice on Bobby's hives, he has a rock or a brick on top of each outer cover?  You'll want to do that--oh, and I was looking at the design of your grandfather's cool top cover and wondering if the wind "bounces off that" better, or if the wind might actually "catch" under the edge of the top gable and flip the top off more easily--just musings--no experience from my end).  Windbreaks are a good thing, but no, not absolutely necessary.  If you read back through the thread, you'll see where I noted Bobby's wind break in an earlier post about location--how his windbreak is probably on the north/northwest side of his hives (just a guess) but that they most likely face sun--east/southeast.  It's VERY IMPORTANT to have sun for a good amount of the day.  DON'T  put your bees in heavy shade.  THey need SUN.  But windbreaks are traditionally considered helpful. How far from a populated area should the be?  I am defining populated as my garden, fruit trees, and vines...and the cyclists on the country road (we get LOTS of cyclists from Cincinnati doing a circuit route through...the road bisects our farm).You just don't want to be walking through the flight path of the bees.  They leave the hive and take an upward trajectory as they leave--getting several feet up in the air usually, but it takes them a few feet to do so--think of a plane taking off.  Think of the flight path along the runway.  Give the bees a "runway" in your mind--a runway that does not get crossed by people regularly, or the poor cyclists.  What will happen is the bees will accidentally run into them and when they hit, they're likely to sting (do you realize that when the honeybee stings, she dies?  She gives her life for what she perceives as a threat to the hive or herself).  Sometimes, when they're in a bad mood for whatever reason, or are feeling defensive, they'll just go after something in the flight path that looks threatening.  I've been nailed in other people's bee yards because I have long dark brown hair (or so the beekeeper said) and though I was a ways off, I was accidentally in the flight path.  Give them a runway.  Not where you have to work picking beans or corn or tomatoes.  The bees will come to your flowers and garden.  You don't need to make it convenient for the bees.  Keep them out of the traffic flow. Oh, BTW, I am just North of you guys in North Bend, Ohio.  :)  I'll be looking into the SouthWestern Ohio Beekeepers Association the weekend on September 8th and see if I can't find someone local to apprentice out to or something. http://www.swoba.org/

Is their meeting that weekend?  I promise, you will be welcome there, and welcome to ask questions.  Once you introduce yourself, tell them what's happening and that you want to keep bees, they'll stand around after the meeting and talk to you as long as you have questions.  You'll also get invited to come out to their bee yards and look around.  

So, you're up in the corner above the "high point" of Kentucky--the Louiville/Covington section of Kentucky?  If so, it won't be a "fur trip" to Lexington to Dadant and to see Rob Mountain, and you know what?  COME TO THE KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY BEEKEEPING SCHOOLS.  I'll find out when the next one is and come there if you don't find better ones closer.  This Jan/Feb there will be a "Bluegrass Beekeepers' School in Lexington/Versailles.  It's probably the best one in the state.  And maybe closer to you than your Ohio ones.  We have some folks from Southern Ohio every year.

FWIW, my beehives are about 100 feet behind my house--but the FACE away from my house/yard into the pasture--if you look at the pics, you can see the stretched wire cattle fence.  Unfortunately they are right against the neighbors/our property line to their left.  We are in process of building a privacy fence on the left side of the hives to make it easier for the neighbor to weedeat her yard without concern of getting stung.  

Oh, and yes, all the above that you mentioned can act as a windbreak.  Some people put their hives up against teh east/souteast side of a barn or other outbuilding where they will get sun but have windbreak, IF that side of the building is one not in a high-traffic area.

It IS a good thing, though, to be able to work your bees from the back of the hive/side of the hive.  I have mine set up so that I can work from the back for the most part.  I try to stay out of in front of the hives as much as possible.

*****A word on "drift".  Yes, bees will absolutely drift.  Bees coming in from the field with loads of stores will often drift to the next hive over, etc.  One way to help them is to put a designating marker on each hive.  I do this.  I have a pink diamond over the entrance to one hive of a pair.  I have a yellow circle over the entrance to another hive of a pair (I generally set up my hives in groups of two--I dunno why--I just do.  I like the way it looks, and this is my yard after all).  I have a blue star over the entrance to the third hive of a pair.  They are shapes cut out of plywood, spray painted and screwed to the front of the hive.  And yes, this is what the university bee geeks told me to do.  And it has worked so far.  It helps the bees "orient" to their own hive rather than the next one over.

An old guy that has been beekeeping since the dead sea was sick told me that they will always drift "west"--that the hive on the west side will always end up stronger, with more bees.  I found this to be true the first year, then I gave them their little colored symbols, and that has not been as noticeable since then.  

Originally Posted By dcwilliams: I agree with the sun comments... The bees get to work sooner in the day when they get early sunlight, however, the hives tend to get a little hot if in full sun all day long.  full morning sun and afternoon shade would be ideal, but this is not always possible.  Windbreaks help with many things, including bees drifting to a hive next to it.  One mistake a lot of beekeepers make is to put hives to close to one another.  You will wind up with one really strong hive and a so-so hive.  This is sometimes due to field bees drifting to the other hive that is upwind.   I wouldn't put more than a few hives in one spot for this reason.  If you have the space, spread them out a little. SHB is not yet in my part of VA, but when it does get here they won't be happy with the permacomb they find in my hives, because they can't eat it :)  neither can wax moths.  If it gets a little nasty you wash it off with a pressure washer and stick it back in a hive for the bees to do the rest. Plus the cell size is a little smaller than commercial wax, and I think the smaller cell sizes (5.1 for PC I think - and if you wax coat it - its 4.9) help with Varroa (I'm a believer in 4.9mm SC, from personal and others experiences). Chris

Duranda, this is what I was talking about with the plastic "foundation".  It will be interesting to find out what you decide to do.  When he speaks of the 5.1 and 4.9?  He's talking about the cell size.  That's what I meant when I said I use "small cell foundation" that I order from Brushy Mountain in NC.  My wax foundation is imprinted with smaller cells than that which you normally purchase.  I don't have enough experience myself to know whether it makes a difference with varroa, but I started out with this because the science made sense to me, and I have not, as yet, been overrun with varroa.  The "SHB's can't eat it" reasoning for permacomb is absolutely a valid argument for using it.  I've had some beekeepers tell me their bees won't use it.  But we took over a hive for a friend on the other side of the county, and he had permacomb (black) and his bees were doing just fine.  We have, therefore, stuck with the permacomb in that hive.  But in truth, we don't really manage them.  We just go there and check now and then to see if they're still alive.

OH, but if you want comb honey, like you saw in my jars, you're going to have to go, at least partially, with wax.  Here, comb honey sells for about $1 more per quart or $.75-$1 more per pint.  And we always sell out of comb honey first.  But that's just here.  This will vary by locality.

Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Kitties-with-Sigs, Are they Screened Bottom Boards on your hives Hey Bobby.  Yes, they are SBBs.  Now I wouldn't use anything else.  Do you have them in your yard?   Duranda:  If you want to build your own hives, there are great plans available free on BeeSource.com .  I don't enjoy BeeSource as a forum because I get tired of being yelled at ala ArFCom General Discussion  for every comment I make.  I was born with a really low tolerance for bullshit, and I find that to be bullshit.  Okay rant off. But BeeSource has a lot of incredible information as far as plans, etc. ETA:  The sharks in the women's forum thread reminded me of something.  If you live where there are bears, you have to take extra precautions in locating your bees.  You will also need an electric fence.  We don't have bears here, so that's yet another "local beekeeper" issue. Kitties Yup, SBBs and Slatted Racks right on top of them, works like a charm, mites and small debris drop thru, ventilation is improved, the SR give the workers more room inside the hive. This is my second year Beekeeping, I dropped quite a few greenbacks to go from 3 hives to nine Hopefully, the honey crop will offset some of the expense. I'm in it for the long haul, this hobby is awesome.

Bobby, will you elaborate on your slatted racks?  I have not used those.  Why did you decide to use them?  I've heard of people who use them and your normal beekeeper naysayers.....

Kitties

FordGuy that bee yard looks great.  How long have you had bees?

Do you have any opening at all in the top of your hives?  I'm asking because I figure you have high humidity and I'm wondering if you ever get moisture issues.  We do here, in KY.

Kitties

Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: FordGuy that bee yard looks great.  How long have you had bees? Do you have any opening at all in the top of your hives?  I'm asking because I figure you have high humidity and I'm wondering if you ever get moisture issues.  We do here, in KY. Kitties

it's much neater now.  back then I let a lot of things go....
no they are screened bottom boards.   no moisture issues.

Originally Posted By FordGuy: back then I let a lot of things go.... .

Yeah.  That's me this year.....  My poor bees.

Kitties

Originally Posted By dcwilliams: I agree with the sun comments... The bees get to work sooner in the day when they get early sunlight, however, the hives tend to get a little hot if in full sun all day long.  full morning sun and afternoon shade would be ideal, but this is not always possible.  Chris

HA!  Nothing like half the hive of bees hanging outside on the front of the hive to get cool to freak out a new beekeeper.....(OMG MY BEES ARE SWARMING!!!!!)

Ya, okay that was me about three years ago...

Kitties

To much stuff to quote or reply directly to.

Thanks everyone for the comments and answers to questions.

I cannot wait till spring now.

That's a long ways off...

Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Bobby_the_Hun: Kitties-with-Sigs, Are they Screened Bottom Boards on your hives Hey Bobby.  Yes, they are SBBs.  Now I wouldn't use anything else.  Do you have them in your yard?   Duranda:  If you want to build your own hives, there are great plans available free on BeeSource.com .  I don't enjoy BeeSource as a forum because I get tired of being yelled at ala ArFCom General Discussion  for every comment I make.  I was born with a really low tolerance for bullshit, and I find that to be bullshit.  Okay rant off. But BeeSource has a lot of incredible information as far as plans, etc. ETA:  The sharks in the women's forum thread reminded me of something.  If you live where there are bears, you have to take extra precautions in locating your bees.  You will also need an electric fence.  We don't have bears here, so that's yet another "local beekeeper" issue. Kitties Yup, SBBs and Slatted Racks right on top of them, works like a charm, mites and small debris drop thru, ventilation is improved, the SR give the workers more room inside the hive. This is my second year Beekeeping, I dropped quite a few greenbacks to go from 3 hives to nine Hopefully, the honey crop will offset some of the expense. I'm in it for the long haul, this hobby is awesome. Bobby, will you elaborate on your slatted racks?  I have not used those.  Why did you decide to use them?  I've heard of people who use them and your normal beekeeper naysayers..... Kitties

Slatted racks allow more bees to cluster inside the hive, adds more ventilation above the SBB. Also allows the queen to lay eggs closer to the bottom of frames where it is a little warmer than without a SR. There are claims that it cuts down on swarming, the jury is still out on that one. I prefer them.

Can you move bees?  I live close to a city center right now, but in the next year or two I'll be moving out to at least the suburbs, probably farther.  Can I move a hive that far?  Figure 50 miles tops.  Beekeeping is something I really want to get into, but I don't want to wait until I move.

Originally Posted By Beefington: Can you move bees?  I live close to a city center right now, but in the next year or two I'll be moving out to at least the suburbs, probably farther.  Can I move a hive that far?  Figure 50 miles tops.  Beekeeping is something I really want to get into, but I don't want to wait until I move.

Yes you can move bees.  The rule of thumb is "less than a foot or more than a mile."

In other words, once you set up the hive, you need to leave it there and not move it ten feet across the yard.  You'll end up with all the field bees coming in with loads of food, water, pollen, etc, and swarming in a big frustrated circle where the hive used to be, all worried about where the family went.

There are techniques for moving hives that you'll have to learn, but as long as you're moving them a mile or more, you 'll have no trouble. (prepare to have various and sundry opinions on how far you can or cannot move bees, and yes, I have successfully moved a hive a very short distance, but it's not the best thing to do and you have to plan it carefully.)

Migratory beekeepers--somebody in this thread has posted that he moved his hives to pollinate blueberries, so that's KIND OF what he is/was--do that.  They move their bees up to several times per year.  They don't get as much honey, but they get paid for the pollination services and this makes up for their loss of profit from honey/pollen sales.

So if you want to start beekeeping now, you can do so--but you'll have to deal with issues with the neighbors and such--check your city ordinances to make sure you can keep bees there, etc, and be prepared (your local beekeeping club/association will tell you how to handle the people who are scared) to deal with some neighborhood politics maybe.  There are beehives on high rise apartment rooftops in New York City.  You can beekeep nearly anywhere.  But there are some stupid metropolitan areas that have passed ordinances that say you cannot keep bees there.  You need to find out if you live in one of these.  If not, you'll just have to live with the neighbors who are afraid your bees will attack and kill their children--they've heard all the inflammatory rhetoric about africanized bees and they believe all bees are like that.

But then when you move, you can pack up your hives and take them with you (there's more to it than this, but you close up the hive at night, when all the bees should be inside, and then you "staple" the hive parts together and move the hive as a unit--there are tools and techniques for this.  

Then you get where you're going and you put on all the bee armor you can get and open the hive up in the morning, then get out of the way.  Yes, it makes them REALLY mad.