Going down to 1:45 means you’re increasing the amount of oil in the mixture.  1 part oil, 45 parts oil.


The theory behind this you’re not providing enough lubricity for the compression part of the engine.

However, there’s a number of things to think about.

How good is the oil?

High temp high shear of the oil?

How much carbon can your exhaust system handle?

How lean is your carb tuned? Remember as you increase oil - you’re decreasing the amount of fuel.  How hot is your engine running?  Etc.

Typically with a two stroke engine - just go with manufacturers recommendation. If you’re using a full synthetic two stroke oil - you can actually go a little lighter. And go 1:55 or such.

But, just go with oem.  Use a better oil.

The fuel / air / oil mixture goes through the crank shaft area, and gets compressed by the crank shaft.

When it’s being compressed, the oil mixture lubricates the parts.

From there it’s pushed up into the combustion chamber. Then compressed again and ignited.  This is part of the “power” of a two cycle engine.


And yes, even for older engines. Just use a better oil.

That chamber moves the air / fuel / oil mixture from the compression chamber / crank shaft area, up to the combustion chamber.

The piston skirt naturally seals it off. The excess air/fuel/oil then lubricates the piston skirt and rings.  And gets re-added to the compression chamber on the stroke.

It’s supposed to be a gif I stole. But it didn’t work. So here’s the link to the site I tried to thieve it off of, since I’m a loser.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LeDMgJj1JAQ/U441X3g39aI/AAAAAAAAAT4/l_6Zb4pHpSU/s1600/Difference+Between+4+Stroke+and+2+Stroke+Engines1.gif

Yep.


Pretty simple.  Just very sped up vs 4 stroke.

So as your compressing fuel/air.  You’re igniting what was in the combustion chamber.

4 stroke


So you really don’t have the compression “stroke” in the combustion chamber that you do in the 4 stroke.
As well, the compressed fuel / air mixture in the 2 stroke, has to push the exhaust gases out. Because you don’t have an exhaust stroke.

So the crank shaft “compression chamber” has to have the power to push the exhaust out.

They do run dirty.

Which is why they smell like gas from the exhaust. As well the little mesh screens on the mufflers get plugged all the time.

It’s unburnt fuel and oil that is getting pushed out with the exhaust. Let alone just not having a complete combustion cycle.

To bring this back to oil, this is where your quality of oil comes into play as well.  A good oil will not just lubricate better, but also burn better in combustion.

From there you could play with richer fuel amounts.  So if you went from 1:50 to 1:60 or such - it’s actually a richer fuel environment because you have more gas / less oil.  This helps control the deposit formations and such, in theory.

Either way. I run the normal 1:50.

The bump reminded me I had a grease question for @Foxtrot08.

My Rhino SE6 rotary mower calls for NLGI 000 grease for the gearbox.  The mower is about 18 years old and has worked flawlessly.  Nothing has leaked out but thinking maybe I should change the grease?

Not finding the NLGI 000 easily. I think the closest I found was someone suggested a JD corn head grease awhile back when I did some searching.

Suggestions on finding 000 grease or an acceptable substitute?  Thanks much for all your educational posts!!

What part of Michigan are you in? I have a facility in Lansing. I can get / stock 000 grease.


Chances are the grease has oxidized significantly - becoming white and chalky. Plus it probably has a fair bit of moisture in it.

Whether or not it will affect literally world war 1 technology… who knows. Me personally? I’d probably clean it out and refill it.

I inherited a grease gun from my dad labeled Stewart Warner  Alemite, who knows how old, works great.  I was looking at the tube and thinking it might be a good basis for a home built suppressor.  Not wanting to  use it, I saw a pair of returned amazon pistol grip specials at a cheap price and grabbed  them.   Well, first, they didn't work because the piston seal was too big to fit in a cartridge! second, the tube wall thickness was HALF the Alemet and instead of threads being machined, they were rolled.  Decided the tubes were too thin for my project,but managed to turn down the piston to make it work, but wow, i understand why they are so cheap

Alemite makes the best grease guns period.

I have 5 of their 20v electric grease guns spread across my shops.

But not everyone wants a different power tool battery to charge.  So any of the major brand electric grease guns are great too.

I’m also an authorized Alemite distributor I believe.

About an hour from Lansing between A2 and Brighton off US23.

Looked at it last year and the grease level and color looked ok.  Nothing jumped out at me leading me to believe it is terribly contaminated.  Mower has been stored indoors all its life if that makes a difference?

My plan has been to change it for a few years but since it maintained its level and could never find the 000 or a good substitute I didn't.

I can get buckets of the right grease in Lansing if we don’t have it. I’ll check the specs and make sure.

Here is a quick bulletin.

https://www.rhinoag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Information-Bulletin-IFB2018-01R-85W140.pdf

Basically, in 2011 they switched to 85w140.  Of course, they recommend lucas... it doesn't matter. 85w140's are pretty much all the same.

So clean out the old 000 grease, use 85w140. Otherwise, I have 000 grease in Lansing - ironically, counter part there is also an arfcommer, texted me and let me know that we have several pails of it up there.

Your choice, the 85w140 will probably be easier to source in smaller quantities.  (We also, of course, stock it.)

Wow!  That's perfect.  I've done many searches over the past few years and never came up with that bulletin. Thanks very much.

I think it makes most sense, since I only need enough for the one gearbox, for me to just get some 85w140 locally or via web order.  If I have trouble sourcing, I'll get back with you.

Now the trick will be to get the old grease out.  I do have a suction gun so hopefully it's not to thick.  I'll wait until it's much warmer out to attempt.  I've used kerosene to thin and flush my old Farmall tractor gearboxes.  Maybe I could do that?  Thoughts?

Thanks again!

@Foxtrot08

Given the potential grease shortage, is there a single grease gun grease that you'd recommend for a decent back stock that would cover automotive/marine/farm equipment applications? When I say marine, I'm talking about fresh water boating/boat trailers, not sailing the seven seas. But if there is a product that has an edge there to that crosses over feel free to share.

If you have a few name brands and models that are equivalents of what you'd recommend, please list them. I saw the recommendation for Mystik JT6 HT #2 but you noted it might not work for some of the applications I mentioned.

I'd like to pick up a couple of cases of grease tubes this week so any guidance would be appreciated.

Fill it with some diesel, run it slowly for 30 seconds, drain it out.  Should get most of it out.

You're asking for a lot out of a single grease. Really, there isn't a good answer. As a firearm is SIGNIFICANTLY different than bucket pin on a tractor.

If I had to pick one product out of everything that I know of:

Lubriplate Synxtreme HD2

It's a little bit light for tractors. But it makes it up being a full synthetic.  Yet still maintains GC-LB standards for wheel bearings.

Chances of you finding it off the shelf somewhere is going to be rare.

If you're looking for something off the shelf... It's going to be super tough for me to recommend something for ALL applications that you can find readily on the shelf.

Applied or one of the other industrial distributors might have it as well.  
https://www.motionindustries.com/products/sku/02854410;origin=sayt

Also I misunderstood the question.

While the grease I linked was baller. I’ve been spending too much time in GD. I thought he wanted a gun grease too.


P66 Polytac EP
Citgo polyurea MP
Kendall SHp grease

Chevron and Mobil both have GC Lb polyurea greases.  Which would work great too. Polyrex EP.  Chevron black Pearl.  Deere multi purpose.

Basically a full synthetic calcium grease or polyurea grease that is GC-LB approved.

Thanks for the advice!

My opinion: They’re super fucking expensive.

In theory they’re the “next generation” of grease technology. Great heat and cold resistance as you said. They do not have the formidable EP properties some other greases have yet. But, who knows what can be developed.

Downside, I’ve been warned they’re not great for you if they’re ever turned into a mist / become airborne. But that’s like most things PTFE and such.

That is my only hesitation using them as a gun grease. Becoming an aerosol.

If it doesn’t bother you, they’re great.

Opinion, no, that is a fact.  

You also have to remove everything before applying it.  A thin coating of bearing preservative can cause issues if not removed. The PFPE oil is not compatible with pretty much everything.  The one exception I know of is this stuff:  Kluebersynth BHP 72-102 .

Only $800-900 a tube… plus shipping.


Yes, you are absolutely correct. I didn’t mention the removal of other grease due to the reference for a gun grease. And typically that would be cleaned off first. But yes, I’m a bearing situation, or some sort of industrial usage, it basically has to be filled from new / cleaned.  Taking something apart and cleaning it probably wouldn’t even be good enough. A lot of these greases basically have to go into a sterile environment, then sealed.

It makes their usage not only expensive and delicate. But also impractical.  Sure they essentially last forever. But between the product cost and the cost to deploy them, you have a very limited market.

Bump

Royal Purple oil is dyed as well, and Jenny air compressors come factory filled with a blue dyed synthetic oil.

I think the dye is just that, dye. The base oil and additive package is what matters. However, I've read Foxtrot08 say many times that small engines (like in your lawnmower) are *old* technology, and basically any oil as long as it's the correct weight will work without issues.

Personally, I'd buy the Kirkland synthetic oil and run that in my small engines because it's cheap and it's synthetic, and change it every season. A six quart case will last years, and only costs like $25 (of course it used to be cheaper).

A_G’s post is a very accurate TL;DR.


I’ll give a little more technical insight.



So there’s your 5 primary base oil types.  Group 1’s are basically exclusively used in heavy industrial products today. You’ll never really find them in motor oils simply because technology has moved beyond them.

Group II’s aren’t synthetic blends.  That’s sort of a misconception there. They’re hydro cracked base oils that are used primarily in synthetic blends for motor oils. However this is what you’ll get in a straight 30w. Or a hydraulic oil. Etc. Group II’s are currently the most produced base oils in the world, thus the most used base oils in the world.

The additive package for a motor oil a light brown or “amber” color typically. There are some variations in tones of color between brands. Depending on the exact color of the base oil, or what exactly the additive package is, etc.

Any blue color is simply a dye. Dyes are typically used as a tracer for oil sampling or leak detection. Some states mandate dyes in lighter oils for leak detection purposes. In automotive applications this is why ATFs are red. Easy leak detection and separation from a motor oil.

A commonly used hydraulic oil - Kendall Hyken glacial Blu, which is primarily found in “cherry picker” trucks - Aka boom trucks, bucket trucks, power line trucks, whatever you want to call them. Is.. blue.  It’s also used in snow plows and lift gates on box trucks.

So yes, Blue dye means absolutely nothing.

Motor oils, on their product data sheet will have the ASTM 1500 test listed on them.  This is the scale:



Most new, gasoline engine oils fall around a 3.0 on the scale. Most base oils, besides group 1’s - fall between a .3 and a .8 in the color scale test.

I believe Citgo lubricants, one of my top tier suppliers, is (or was at one time) the original manufacturer for exmark oils.

With that being said, I know Citgo very well. I’m on their technical advisory board, and will be soon taking a seat on their marker council. So, anti shill notice there.

However, back to the point A_G said: You can run anything that meets a 30w @ 212f / 100c.

So a 0w30/5w30/10w30 or straight 30w.  All would be fine in your application.  All of them are (approximately) the same viscosity at operational temperature.








Charts and stuff to show how multi viscosity oils work vs a straight weight. This is to show that typically, full synthetics are not as affected by heat as much as mono grades are. This is because of the more robust base stocks used. (Group 3’s and PAO’s.)  This allows the oil to be thicker, at hotter temperatures than the group II products. While maintaining being thinner, at cold temperatures. This allows better cold flow performance in colder weather, preventing wear, in both extremes.

But you’re fine running whatever you bought. Very simplistic low pressure engines.

Thank you for not taking me to task.

bump

Bump with a reason; THANK YOU @foxtrot08 for your general purpose axle grease recommendation. I’ve used Mystik JT6 High Temp grease ever since, along with the cordless grease gun I also acquired as a result of your posts.

I got home from a recent trip with my trailer and smelled grease, and checked my hub temps(really brake drum temps) and found one was almost 350degF, other one on the same axle was almost as hot. It was hard to get an idea of hub/bearing temp as the drums were so hot. I had an issue with my trailer brakes recently, a wiring fault that caused a “no trailer” issue and brake actuation, but thought I had a good temporary fix. Not so! Probably the last 20-30 miles of the trip it had been randomly hitting the brakes on one axle. Despite the grease pushing out the rubber weather cover, I pulled the bearings and found them in perfect condition and the grease still looked good. After fixing the wiring and re-greasing the hub we’re good to go!

No way would I have dug into quality grease and flushing out the grease regularly without this thread, and I may have had a breakdown on the side of the road. Thanks again!

"Safety first" for those with leaky grease guns...

The Grease "Gundom" (a L-N-L product)





I'll also say I bought one of the Ryobi 18v grease guns for greasing my little hobby tractor and implements as I use the Ryobi system for some infrequent home level stuff.  Has worked well for my limited use and while greasing an old set of disc harrows it pushed out all of the old grease/dirt/gunk with no issues including one zerk fitting that didn't want to "take" grease from manual gun, way easier and faster than a manual gun for that application especially avoiding the slicing ability of those blades.  I use the XL version of the lock n lube coupler for the disc set as it makes it much easier to  reach in between the blades to grease them.  I also have a manual L-N-L grease gun exclusively for my trailer hubs as I use the same grease in all of them.  

The frequent posts from Foxtrot08 on all things lube/fuel related are worth the price of a membership IMHO... I've still got a screenshot of his suggested alternative to Kubota UDT unfortunately for hobby/limited use its just easier to buy the brand.

and Mystic has a commercial and consumer dealer locator link on their web page for those searching... Mystic locator

and for 2 stroke things this lady is pretty informative for DIY


as is:

I’m drunk. It’s Christmas. AMA about the oil industry.


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Accidental edit meaning to quote.  Yes, I did it again. I apologize.

~Kitties

OK, what would be best grease for a deep groove ball bearing at speeds it shouldn't be at, after sitting for 20 years?

I cant decide whether to standardize my grease arsenal with the Mystik or Lucas line

I love this thread.  4T motorcycle race oil vs. "normal" synthetic motorcycle oil... Both good for factory-service intervals on non-race bikes?

@Foxtrot08, don't leave me hanging bro.  

EP polyurea.