Most of those guys are cloning their show or a larger file over to the house rig. Very few of them at programming all of that during the day. If they are, god bless them.

The only time you’ll see me behind a lighting console is to help the lighting guy get his shit to talk because it seems like I’m one of the only few people that understands networking these days… Ha. But no, I don’t do lights. Ever. Couldn’t tell you the first thing about how their consoles work or how any of the fixtures do a thing.  I just know their XLR’s have too many pins and the weird ones that have three pins make my shit buzz when used as an audio cable.

Have you ever worked with any of these systems?

https://www.edcacoustics.com

Nope.

Anyone want to help me with LA Network Manager?

We just had a new system installed. NM says "Online", but I do not appear to be connected. The mutes are not working. It's showing muted right now, but I am currently listening to tunes because I unmuted the amps on amps themselves. Muting and unmuting them at the laptop does nothing.

I checked all the Cat5 connections and they appear to be good. We're still going to be able to have a show today, but I'd love to get this figured out.
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eta: We seem to be having trouble with some of our Cat5 lines. My primary connection from the stage box to the Avantis is not working, for instance. I had to switch to the secondary line.

I don't know what could've happened to these lines as they were working the other day when I came in during the install. Our PM and LD just tested all of them, however, and about half of them are inoperable

Regarding my last post, for some reason several of our Cat5 lines are kaput.

We switched the laptop to a good line and we have Network Manager back.

We're in touch with the installer.
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eta: These are the only lines that are working. We're using one for my connection to the stage box, one for the video wall, and one for Network Manager.
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How much money does an artist make for performing?

Let's use these numbers as an example.

Garth Brooks is playing Red Rocks.
They sell 10,000 tickets.

The ticket cost (Before fees and taxes) is $100
The fees for the ticket are $50

At this concert they sell $50,000 worth of food and drinks
At this concert they sell $50,000 worth of merch

How much does the artist make?
How much does the venue make?
How much does the ticketing company make?

If the artist has a record company, what is the split for concert revenue?

Another question.

There's a band Pendulum and they don't tour much even though they are pretty popular. The reason I have heard is that large bands (such as Slipknot with up to 9 members) the money is split so many ways and the logistics costs are higher with moving all the people and equipment, hotel rooms, etc.

Compare that someone like Boris Brejcha or Armin Van Buuren who brings 2 small cases of gear and is a solo DJ so the logistics are low and he doesn't split with anyone.

Have any inside info on this type of thinking?

I've been to many different types of concerts but electronic music concerts are interesting in that - in many cases, there is zero changeover between artists. They mix the last track into their first track or intro.

Well I've been told that a major country act will sell $1M of merch in a night for a stadium show.  Hell if half of your theoretical crowd buys a hoodie and a poster or maybe a couple of t-shirts you're looking at $325k easy so it doesn't seem like a stretch for a 20-25k size crowd in a stadium tour.

Do engineers use Mixing Station at higher levels or stick with the native flow of each different surface? I’m coming at this from a very amateur level; haven’t touched a mixer in years but just ordered an X32 rack for our band rehearsal space & my IEMs.

How do you guys handle RF coordination on tours? Local rental house with gear that’s already set up in the available frequencies, or tour gear that your crew re-coordinates at each venue?

There are all kinds of deals that can transpire between artists and venues. Everything is negotiable. During my stint with Live Nation, the process of settling up with artists made my head spin. It's why I'm back to just being a sound guy for the time being

Having said that, there are some basics. One is the artist guarantee, which is exactly what it sounds like: a guaranteed amount that the artist will receive, regardless of tickets sales, etc. Yes, venues can lose money on shows. Talent buyers do their best to purchase shows that will do well, of course, but there's always the risk of a poor turnout with the venue still owing the artist his guarantee.

There is also what's called a door deal, where the performer only gets a cut (or the entire amount) of the tickets sales, but most of the time a guarantee is built into the contract. The biggest guarantee I've seen at my level is $50,000. That's small beans compared to what a Garth Brooks would pull in, but that's what a decent artist can command in a 1500-3000 cap venue.

There are also "versus" deals, where the artist still has his guarantee, but can make more if he gets into points, which basically means that tickets have sold so well that the venue and the artist begin to split the proceeds. It reads like this: $50,000 vs. 85% of NBOR (net box office receipts). If the venue nets $100,000 from ticket sales, they pay the artist more since 85% of that is more than the artist's guarantee.

Regarding food and drink sales, yes, the venue wants to make bank, so they do all the things that food and beverage operators do to maximize profits. They of course want crowds that will drink, and will grumble during all-ages or 18+ shows that involve an underage audience. It was beaten into my head at an early age that musicians are glorified liquor salesmen, and that's partly how venues see them, as the drivers of beverage sales.

I also think of parking fees as a good source of venue revenue.

Yes, merch is huge, for the artist but also the venue. Most deals include a 15-20% cut of soft goods (t-shirts but not vinyl records, for example) that goes to the venue, so that at the end of the night the venue will approach the merch seller for their cut.

Every artist does merch differently, but normally there are lots of cardboard boxes and plastic tubs coming out of their trailer to be dollied to the merch area of the venue. It's a pain in the ass getting them situated sometimes, and waiting at the end of the night for them to tally up their sales and pack up, but it is what it is.

Other sources of revenue for artists are VIP packages and meet-and-greets.

That's all I can really speak to. As far as ticketing goes, there are different ticketing platforms that offer varying levels of service, with the hugest being Ticketmaster, of course.

I have no idea what kind of deals artists may have with their record companies as they relate to live performances.

Cool thanks for answering.

Red Rocks as an example again, they also sell 500 "premium" tickets that cost about $100-250 each.

500 x 100 = $50,000

9,500 x 40 = $380,000

So even a "cheap" artist could bring in $430k in ticket sales at that venue.  For a big artist maybe $1MM per night.


I was guesstimating that an artist I follow made about $100k in one week playing 3 shows; might have been more.

I found this tidbit online:

I don't think there's much to be said beyond that. Sure, a DJ typically has lower overhead than a live band.

It's not to say that DJ shows are necessarily less complicated or cheaper to produce; scenics (set pieces), pyrotechnics, CO2 cannons, lighting, etc. can add layers of complexity that can make those days longer than ones in which you might have a band. My earliest call recently was for a rap show. 7am. Two guys in the show, a DJ and the rapper, yet we had to remove all of our house lighting trusses so that the tour could fly their own, and there were scenic and video elements out the ass.

Bands can keep their shows low budget, and a lot of them do. Touring may only be cost prohibitive for larger bands insofar as they don't want to make sacrificies in order to tour. I think of that band Eluveitie, the Swiss folk metal group. I've crossed paths with them a couple of times, and from what I've seen they're among those willing to endure the grind for the love of what they do. It's a large band with lots of traditional instruments, and they don't play to huge crowds. Unless they have some kind of behind-the-scenes benefactor, they're making a conscious choice to tough it out on the road without a ton of resources.

All that said, I would much rather work with live bands than anything else.

I saw a show at Red Rocks where the main artist had a massive four-piece video wall in front of his DJ booth.

He had played a show in Broomfield the night before that had ended at 1am in the morning.

Some poor guys had to disassemble the video board, truck it 30 miles to RR, and then re-assemble the whole thing for one show. It looks like the video board was completely assembled before 2PM.

I don't see many guys using iPads at all, which honestly kind of surprises me. I love having remote control of my console. It's valuable in so many ways.

RF coordination on tours is typically done on-site upon arrival at the venue, usually by the monitor engineer. It's one of the first orders of business after load in. If a band is coming in from Nashville, they'll want to do it all over again once they reach me in Dallas.

If it's a fly date and we're renting wireless locally for an incoming band, sometimes we can get away with the frequencies that those systems are already set to, but sometimes not.

Even if your band plans on playing only in your local area, do yourself a favor and get in the habit of scanning at each venue anyway. I work with a lot of local bands, and the bane of my existence is dudes bringing in wireless systems that they have no idea how to use. Download Shure Wireless Workbench for free and familiarize yourself with it, or at least learn how to do scans on your wireless unit itself. I hate it when local bands dump their janky wireless shit on me and expect me to set it up when I have a ton of other things going.

Thanks for the detailed info. I was wondering because some cities are so congested that it looks impossible to find any available frequencies.  My iem is an older g2 sennheiser so only can scan on the receiver.

I initially got an xr18 but am returning it. The app is handy, but even with a dedicated router it still drops connection at times. That’s why the x32r is coming - it at least has a couple encoders on the front to adjust mains without needing to plug in the laptop.

Glad you got it sorted. Bummer about the lines. That’ll that a little bit of trouble shooting. Bad news if the break is in a long bit of copper.

L-Acoustics is my cup of tea, so any specific questions about LANM I can absolutely help you with.

Yep. I was just out with WuTang and we were generally getting done at 2am and had rigging call at 6am the next day at the next venue. It’s nice being crew chief where I have a crew of techs running local labor while I supervise it all and deal with big picture shit and overall audio system stuff. Despite all of that, the days still are long. Some times you get a tour like the one I’m on now… 6 shows over 6 weeks. All fly date arena shows. Getting paid for the entire 6 weeks while I sit on my ass at home or take other work if I want to. Some are absolute shit shows and some are pretty cushy.

ETA - Pendulum is fucking awesome. Saw them at Ultra in 2009 maybe?

Depends on how many hands are in the pot. One artist I work for plays theaters. Even in small 1500 seat theaters he’s pulling in $150-200k. He’s doing everything himself though. Rents the venues directly, self promotes, own label, own merch, hires local labor directly, etc. It’s extremely hard to do, but once you have the machine going it just prints money. (When I say him, I don’t mean him personally. He obviously has a staff of employees doing this, but it’s not like outside promoters, etc dipping their hands into the pot.)

Fuckkkkk. I don’t see monitor engineers until like 11am. The monitor tech is out there doing the scans and what not. Hahahah.

Never control a console from an iPad during any professional large show. However, I walk around and make tweaks to the PA on my iPad non stop during the show from all areas of the venues.

Can you explain why tweaking the PA from an iPad is acceptable while controlling the console is not?

Can you also elaborate on what you typically do to the system while you're walking the venue during shows? Are you doing this by ear, taking measurements, or both?

I think he was trying to say he had never done it, not that one should not do it?

Because as an SE I’m tweaking a host computer via a VNC on my tablet. If something happens with the connection or something goes awry, we’re all good. With a console you’re directly affecting the machine itself. If you grab a fader or eq gain and your connection glitches and that drops or pushes all the way up, well that’s your job. Depends on how brave you are. I personally don’t ever see it done a professional level. Any walking FOH mixer should do is just localized to FOH or maybe a quick walk down an aisle. Mixer should trust their SE for communication as to what mix adjustments need to be made. I personally set up quite a large wireless network in all my large shows I do and use a VNC to bring up notepad on the Smaart computer the FOH guy is already glancing at. That way I can let them know how the mix is translating even if I’m in the top/back of an arena or a stadium. The communication between the “art and science” department of sound is beyond crucial.

I may be shifting time between different sub systems of the PA, EQ’ing/tonal adjustments and gain changes while walking the venue. Depends on what is all needed. At this point everything is done by ear. I’ll keep a mic up at FOH for Smaart, but that’s mostly just for SPL and so the FOH guy can look at squiggly lines. I don’t rely on Smaart during the show at all. However, I have a console reference and FOH mic measurement going at the same time so the knob behind the knobs can see the difference in response to see if I’m doing my job properly.

Holy shit!

I know that many of the artists I like also own their own record companies, which means they have staff, but they are in control of how it is run. Extremely common in electronic music. In fact the last 3 headliners I saw all have their own record labels.

As much as I love EDM artists, they’re mostly dipshits and so are the people working for them. There are so many hands in those pots and ridiculous amounts of cash being wasted it’s not funny. I used to tour with some of the biggest names in EDM for a hot minute. Done many EDM festivals, shows and one offs. It’s almost as big of a shit show as rap is.

I guess I am about to witness a band called Incantation at Granada where I worked for five years. So many good times here although I sometimes wonder how I put up with all of it
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That little venue and the Kessler are the two Crown Jewels of Dallas music halls. I had a chance to observe your fine work on several occasions. Sir, you are a Master of your craft.

Thank you, sir. I have yet to set foot in the Kessler, partly because their entertainment director is the bat shittiest of the batshit leftists in Dallas, and that's saying something.

I should suck it up and go see something there.

I'm guessing you have stories. Although maybe it's a bad idea to name names.

Some people I really admire for their careers:
Armin Van Buuren
Deadmau5
Diplo
Skrillex  / Sonny Moore
Hardwell

Guys that are probably idiots:
Fischer (he doesn't even produce his own music!)
Marshmellow

Ha. I have tons of stories.

I don’t drop names of people I work for at the time. Past names I don’t really care.

I used to do a bunch of the Diplo Block Parties. Those were always fun. I also did a lot of stuff with Bassnectar, Pretty Lights, and Above and Beyond. I’ve done so many one off’s and festivals for EDM artists, the list just goes on and on. I got to do a few shows with Shpongle last year and that was absolutely incredible. Funny scenario, my phone rang about 30 minutes ago and someone was asking me to do the upcoming tour for Subtronics this spring. They need to get back to me on money though... I think I’m a bit too expensive for them, but we’ll see. There is a reason my phone just rings and I don’t really search out work ever... ;)

Speaking of Granada, we did Shpongle and it was great. He had this crazy set, and I've still never seen anything like it.
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That’s awesome. A Shpongle show is a journey and an experience. Glad you got to do one and have been SHPONGLED.

I know it's business for you, but I can't stand Subtronics music. No flow, no melody, anti-chill.. .IDK. Above and Beyond is pretty awesome, although they have a strange group dynamic.

The money all spends the same, but it is cool when I get to work for someone I actually enjoy listening too.

Ain't that the truth! The best thing for me is being completely unfamiliar with an artist, meeting them and working with them for a day, and then following their careers and listening to them for years after that.

I will pay you to mix us live with the wife's carnitas.

Deal.

Maybe I’m not that expensive after all….

I did a job with this stuff. I'm not going to say anything about it right now. I'm just gonna leave these pics here.
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That’s a hard nope from me.

Can you shed any light on this "DC on channel 1" message?

Power cycling the amp made it work again, but I'd still like to know what's up.

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LA8 or LA12X?

Two things with that. It’s usually a cable that is not correctly seated fully or has an intermittent connection. The other thing is the amps HATE not being powered down properly or put into standby before pulling power. If they are “on” when power is connected they can throw all sorts of issues, but this is a common one. Power cycle usually fixes it.

If neither of these resolve this, the amp is an LA8, and if the problem is persistent, chances are it is an actual bad amp channel.

Thanks so much. I'll likely circle back on this next weekend.

Why does the local band sound guy always has it too loud for the venue? (Ballrooms, small stages, etc)??



Seriously though, back when I saw the local music scene, the music would drown out the singing, or the whole thing would be a loud racket.

99% of FOH engineers, professional or not, cannot get a well balanced mix without pushing volume. Real skill is being able to get a solid, well balanced mix at non deafening levels. It’s quite uncommon believe it or not. Most people perceive loud as “good”.

Yep, so much truth to that. Getting loud is one thing. Building a well balanced mix that sounds loud is quite another. It’s not always easy, often times you’re battling the artists themselves who just want it louder. These days I’m most working with live orchestras, so if it’s loud enough to notice through the PA, then it’s too loud already.

Great bands sound great without much help. They essentially mix themselves.

Mixing a good band is often an effortless experience. You can fuck it up, of course, but if you have any ear whatsoever, it isn't hard to cobble together a mix that's at least acceptable, if not excellent.

What I'm getting at is that if it sounds like shit, it may be the band's fault. I always accept responsibility for the sound when I'm on the job, and I don't openly blame bands if it's shit, but I'm not on the job. I'm on the internet, and I have no problem saying that some bands just sound like shit and there's not much you can do about it.

Poorly tuned drums, poorly dialed in guitar and bass tones, bad technique, amps that are too loud, monitor wedges that are too loud...the FOH guy only has so much control over things. Bad sound isn't always due to a bad mix. It's sometimes due to a bad band. Or both

The phrase I will always remember from my training is "Fix Your Sources"

... if you can

There's a guy around here who's experienced a fair degree of regional success who put on a show last Saturday. He's well-respected and had a band comprised of some pretty notable players. It was a lighthearted, pre-NYE affair, and I got to mix the show.

The load in was casual, and the manager guy brought in an unspectacular five piece drum kit and left it sitting there until the drummer arrived. When he did, he sat down and began tuning it. Not just a quick turning of a few lugs, but really listening and making it sound right. I usually put in ear plugs if I have to mic up a kit with the drummer sitting behind it, and I told the guy to keep doing what he was doing and to not mind me.

You can ALWAYS tell what you're in for before bringing up a single fader on a drum channel. When drummers start playing, and you're just listening to the natural, unamplified sound of the drums in the room, it's either "this is going to suck ass", "meh", or "thank God this guy knows how great drums should sound."

Anyway, when the night was over and the band was (thankfully) thanking me for the work, I made a point to express appreciation to the drummer for taking the time to tune the drums as he did. It was heartfelt because I was truly grateful for it. Some drummers or either apathetic or incompetent when it comes to tuning, and I want those who aren't to know that I recognize it.

There's nothing worse than sitting at FOH trying to polish a turd, realizing that you're not quite cutting it, and knowing that people are looking askance at you for it. On the other hand, it's a joy when bands give you something great to work with, and it feels like a win for the band, audience, and sound crew alike.

I'd like some opinions on the subject of house tie lines, data lines in particular.

As stated, there is a new install in this venue I've been at, and kinks are still being worked out.

On NYE I tried for the first time to use our ethernet tie lines. We have yet to get some quality ethercon cables, so I'm pretty sure the problem was the craptacular network cables I tried to use, but at any rate, I couldn't get the band engineer's FOH console to talk their stage box.

Bad network cables or not, I've become so skittish about using these tie lines that I'd much rather run the band's own snake. When asked if we have house data runs, I always say yes, but I'm also quick to point out that I am happy to run their snake for them.

In my mind, even if the tie lines are solid, a single cable run, especially when that cable belongs to the band, is better than a cable-to-patch bay-to tie line-to patch bay-to cable scenario with its multiple potential points of failure.

I know that sometimes it's impractical to run a cable from the stage to FOH, and I've used house tie lines with great success in other venues, but on NYE I was more than happy to secure my paycheck by running the band's own line for them. It's easy to do in this particular place. I don't necessarily want that to be my default, but I also don't want to spend entire shows sweating because of iffy tie lines.

How do you account for crowd noise when setting up in small to medium-sized clubs?  I've been in several places that catered more to the drinkers than they did to the band. Places that have a big "regulars" crowd who think the band is annoying and do their best to talk over the music.

It's terrible even in ticketed shows where people are paying money presumably to listen to a band.

Granted, a lot of bands foster a party atmosphere, and probably expect people to carry on vs. giving them their undivided attention, so it's not like talking is always uncalled for.

In those cases you just do the best you can to contend with the din of people's conversations. I will tell you that I'm not going to compete with it and push my mix to the threshold of pain to overpower 1,000 people talking. The audience does share some of the responsibility, and if they're not willing to shut up for the sake of sonic clarity then it's on them. It's common for me to quickly bring things up from where I had them at soundcheck once the show begins and the house is full, but not to an unreasonable level.

In the case of bar bands, yeah, the loud, obnoxious patrons are the ones being catered to, and for good reason. They're the ones making the club money. It's unfortunate that some really great bands have to deal with it along with the people who came strictly to hear the music, but without those drunken idiots there would be no shows at all. It sucks to have to play the part of liquor salesman, but most musicians know from the outset that that's a major part of their job. Some probably tolerate the crowd noise begrudgingly, and some probably don't care. There's not much that can be done about it.