Do you think that the extreme right is equally as nuts as the extreme left? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you think that the extreme right is equally as nuts as the extreme left? (Page 2 of 6)

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:22:26 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
if you go far enough in either direction you end up in fucktard land.

I am a fu**tard?

Seriously though, to me, a leftie favors the collective and the rightie favors the individual.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:24:28 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
if you go far enough in either direction you end up in fucktard land.

I am a fu**tard?

Seriously though, to me, a leftie favors the collective and the rightie favors the individual.

You and I are only extreme to a fucktard liberal. Most of the people I encounter don't have minds of their own so they can't even begin to judge our beliefs on any scale.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:24:58 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
The religious fanatics are every bit as loony as the commies on the left.

What are you even talking about? Religious equals right wing? On what planet?

The majority of mainstream religious organizations are so liberal they would make your head spin!!!

Stop watching MSNBC!!!

Religious groups in the South helped end segregation.

We are more socially conservative in the South yet we have more freedom than northern Liberal enclaves where everything you do is regulated.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:26:14 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Joseph Stalin<––––––––––––> Adolf Hitler
Extreme Left <––––––––––––> Extreme Right

Yeah, Hitler and his State run everything is really what hard right leaning people strive for.

Oh. No. That's not it at all.

Under a 'traditional' definition of Left-Right politics, yes. Corporate Statism to benefit a few.

http://images.the-classic-liberal.com/2009/06/right_wing_vs_left_wing.gif

Would this suit you better? All government<––––––––->No government

http://images.the-classic-liberal.com/2009/06/political-spectrum.jpg

Both extremes are bad.

So where does the slave labor fit in? Even No Government theory does not apply ( Some anarchists are the biggest fans of rule-by-committee/ arbitration models). NAZIs, using the liberal-centered education model, were defined by their heavily bureaucratic, rulebook adhoc governing process. Authoritarianism and oppression by the heavy hand of government.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:26:24 AM EDT

[#5]

Absolutely. Not even a debatable question. There are a number of foaming uber-rightwing nutjobs right here on Arfcom. They're just as full of teh crazy as the uber-left PETA people.

In America, conservatives have it right on some issues (fiscal discipline) and liberals have it right on other issues (conservation, abortion). Too bad we don't get to choose cafeteria-style.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:26:46 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
if you go far enough in either direction you end up in fucktard land.

I am a fu**tard?

Seriously though, to me, a leftie favors the collective and the rightie favors the individual.

One of the historical definitions of conservativism has been favoring the community over the individual, where liberalism exalts the individual over the community. The idea of right-wing individualism is a relatively modern ripoff of classical Liberal thought, as older elements of conservativism became obsolete.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:26:50 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
if you go far enough in either direction you end up in fucktard land.

I am a fu**tard?

Seriously though, to me, a leftie favors the collective and the rightie favors the individual.

You and I are only extreme to a fucktard liberal. Most of the people I encounter don't have minds of their own so they can't even begin to judge our beliefs on any scale.

Libtards say I am so far to the right that I am "wrapping around" to the left.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:27:07 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What is extreme right?

Birthers and NAZIs (debatable but a given from the POV of our liberal-focused education system) are two ....

But yet Nazis were not right wing.

As with the Nolan chart, Nazis & fascists are certainly not right-wing when it came to market policies. The only fascist I can think of that was actually right wing was Augusto Pinochet.

Here's PoliticalCompass' on political leaders using a 4-axis chart:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif

As you can see, Hitler was certainly no right-winger.

Your assertion of Pinochet is dead on. He instituted modern social security reform. With this, his rule was oppresive leading to him losing his sovereign immunity.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:27:26 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
if you go far enough in either direction you end up in fucktard land.

I am a fu**tard?

Seriously though, to me, a leftie favors the collective and the rightie favors the individual.

One of the historical definitions of conservativism has been favoring the community over the individual, where liberalism exalts the individual over the community. The idea of right-wing individualism is a relatively modern ripoff of classical Liberal thought, as older elements of conservativism became obsolete.

Correct historically........can't argue that. Things have MOST DEFINITELY morphed.

Back in the old days I would have been a liberal by the definition. The community gets help but the individual usually comes first to my way of believing. Just the way I am.

But, by adhering(sp?) to that philosophy.......I honestly believe you are doing the community the most good.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:31:45 AM EDT

[#10]

Both are crazy. The right is usually better armed.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:31:50 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
The religious fanatics are every bit as loony as the commies on the left.

I like the idea of socialism and communism being described as a crypto-religion. Big government promising a life of bliss and contentment by merely surrendering your individuality to the will of the state.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:32:47 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

What is extreme right?

Birthers and NAZIs (debatable but a given from the POV of our liberal-focused education system) are two ....

But yet Nazis were not right wing.

As with the Nolan chart, Nazis & fascists are certainly not right-wing when it came to market policies. The only fascist I can think of that was actually right wing was Augusto Pinochet.

Here's PoliticalCompass' on political leaders using a 4-axis chart:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif

As you can see, Hitler was certainly no right-winger.

I can't quite agree with this placement of Hitler on this chart. Listen to his speeches and then make the determination and he will be well left of that line.

Hitler generally hovers within 1 grid of economically centrist. Generally, socialism (private ownership of businesses with significant government interference) are seen at the middle of the PC spectrum.

Comparatively, FDR is in the exact same range for economic policies, which would further prove the argument that Hitler was generally in the 'centrist' area (50/50 mix of communism and capitalism).

*edit*

You can also look at some of their other leader comparables that are economically in the same area as Hitler, who are avowed Socialist Party members such as Jose Zapatero (PM, Spain) to understand their 'centrist' is socalist. Leftist being full-blown Stalin/North Korea Communism, and rightist being Lassiez-Faire full-on free market (to which few politicians actually reach outside of economists)

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:34:31 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

If you took everyone in America and lined them up on a political spectrum, do you think that people on both of the extreme ends are about equally as nuts/paraniod/batshit crazy?

Yes/No/FBHO?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:34:54 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A single axis model (left to right on a line) is a flawed model of politics.

A much better model is two axis (left to right and also up to down). It's called the Nolan chart.

http://www.insteadofablog.com/images/nolanchart.gif

A lot of people here are conservative but highly authoritarian, while I am conservative but highly libertarian. These are very far apart politically and are represented as so on the Nolan chart.

eta: I'd probably be somewhere around or just under the second "a" in Libertarian.

But you could also say that since some "conservatives" are authoritarian, the fact that they want government control, would mean that they would be in the center of a left to right scale.

It would look like this

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
socialist progressive liberal conservative constitutional libertarian anarchist

According to libertarians.

You do realize that anarchism is a leftist political-economic theory? Mikhail Bakunin ring a bell?

Nolan's chart is an attempt to relocate libertarians as the "true" right. This is to avoid falling on the left side of the spectrum, where they belong.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:35:14 AM EDT

[#15]

Yes, without a doubt.

We get some of those types here and quickly ban them. Mental illness strikes folks of all types.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:35:23 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What is extreme right?

Birthers and NAZIs (debatable but a given from the POV of our liberal-focused education system) are two ....

But yet Nazis were not right wing.

As with the Nolan chart, Nazis & fascists are certainly not right-wing when it came to market policies. The only fascist I can think of that was actually right wing was Augusto Pinochet.

Here's PoliticalCompass' on political leaders using a 4-axis chart:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif

As you can see, Hitler was certainly no right-winger.

I can't quite agree with this placement of Hitler on this chart. Listen to his speeches and then make the determination and he will be well left of that line.

Hitler generally hovers within 1 grid of economically centrist. Generally, socialism (private ownership of businesses with significant government interference) are seen at the middle of the PC spectrum.

Comparatively, FDR is in the exact same range for economic policies, which would further prove the argument that Hitler was generally in the 'centrist' area (50/50 mix of communism and capitalism).

who defined the center of that chart? I am guessing that is what I would disagree with more.....

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:35:33 AM EDT

[#17]

I'll ask again.........do you guys think Bin Laden was a rightie?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:36:01 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Absolutely. Not even a debatable question. There are a number of foaming uber-rightwing nutjobs right here on Arfcom. They're just as full of teh crazy as the uber-left PETA people.

In America, conservatives have it right on some issues (fiscal discipline) and liberals have it right on other issues (conservation, abortion). Too bad we don't get to choose cafeteria-style.

Wrong.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:36:01 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My reply is Yes.

The extreme right looks a lot like the extreme left - Both extremes want to maximize control over peoples' lives.

What the hell are you clowns talking about?

As stated above - If the left's view taken to the extreme is complete government control over your life, wouldn't the opposite be NO government control?

The Hitler thing is just something teachers say to scare kids away from being conservative.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:36:15 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What is extreme right?

Birthers and NAZIs (debatable but a given from the POV of our liberal-focused education system) are two ....

But yet Nazis were not right wing.

As with the Nolan chart, Nazis & fascists are certainly not right-wing when it came to market policies. The only fascist I can think of that was actually right wing was Augusto Pinochet.

Here's PoliticalCompass' on political leaders using a 4-axis chart:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif

As you can see, Hitler was certainly no right-winger.

I can't quite agree with this placement of Hitler on this chart. Listen to his speeches and then make the determination and he will be well left of that line.

Hitler generally hovers within 1 grid of economically centrist. Generally, socialism (private ownership of businesses with significant government interference) are seen at the middle of the PC spectrum.

Comparatively, FDR is in the exact same range for economic policies, which would further prove the argument that Hitler was generally in the 'centrist' area (50/50 mix of communism and capitalism).

who defined the center of that chart? I am guessing that is what I would disagree with more.....

Yeah, those charts are not etched in stone are they?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:37:01 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Absolutely. Not even a debatable question. There are a number of foaming uber-rightwing nutjobs right here on Arfcom. They're just as full of teh crazy as the uber-left PETA people.

In America, conservatives have it right on some issues (fiscal discipline) and liberals have it right on other issues (conservation, abortion). Too bad we don't get to choose cafeteria-style.

Wrong.

I wonder if he constructed those charts?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:38:05 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:39:38 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

so the inquisition is exists right now? can you read what he wrote?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:40:23 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:40:27 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

A single axis model (left to right on a line) is a flawed model of politics.

A much better model is two axis (left to right and also up to down). It's called the Nolan chart.

http://www.insteadofablog.com/images/nolanchart.gif

A lot of people here are conservative but highly authoritarian, while I am conservative but highly libertarian. These are very far apart politically and are represented as so on the Nolan chart.
eta: I'd probably be somewhere around or just under the second "a" in Libertarian.

But you could also say that since some "conservatives" are authoritarian, the fact that they want government control, would mean that they would be in the center of a left to right scale.

It would look like this

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

socialist progressive liberal conservative constitutional libertarian anarchist

According to libertarians.

You do realize that anarchism is a leftist political-economic theory? Mikhail Bakunin ring a bell?

Nolan's chart is an attempt to relocate libertarians as the "true" right. This is to avoid falling on the left side of the spectrum, where they belong.

It all depends. Leftists like to use anarchy as a tool to usher in government control. True anarchists, are people who believe that people will ultimately be able to peacefully coexist without government. So not only do you have to ways to determine political the spectrums, but you also have two ways in describing anarchy.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:40:39 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Absolutely. Not even a debatable question. There are a number of foaming uber-rightwing nutjobs right here on Arfcom. They're just as full of teh crazy as the uber-left PETA people.

In America, conservatives have it right on some issues (fiscal discipline) and liberals have it right on other issues (conservation, abortion). Too bad we don't get to choose cafeteria-style.

Said it better than I could. To me the only difference between right and left extremism is that the left wipes the spittle on their sleeve whereas the right uses a napkin.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:41:55 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Absolutely. Not even a debatable question. There are a number of foaming uber-rightwing nutjobs right here on Arfcom. They're just as full of teh crazy as the uber-left PETA people.

In America, conservatives have it right on some issues (fiscal discipline) and liberals have it right on other issues (conservation, abortion). Too bad we don't get to choose cafeteria-style.

Said it better than I could. To me the only difference between right and left extremism is that the left wipes the spittle on their sleeve whereas the right uses a napkin.

No..........I use my gun rag.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:43:01 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:43:40 AM EDT

[#29]

The extreme right in America built this country and made it the greatest nation on earth. The extreme left came along much later (about the time of FDR) and started it's decline.

Zero tolerance for liberals. Zero tolerance for communists. Zero tolerance for democrats.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:44:35 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

It was about government control, via the use of a theocracy.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:46:56 AM EDT

[#31]

Government control itself is a means towards dissolving govt in favor of anarchy for the extreme [communist] left, while government reform on the part of the right may involve restricting commerce or banning personal expression.

Authoritarian & economic axii are easy ways to think about left and right, but have fuck-all correspondence to traditional left/right issues.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:47:21 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Maybe.........I kinda feel he is a right wing extremist because of the religious views.......but these definitions are so broad and subjective that I always have doubts no matter how much I think I really know where someone stands.

Except for Pelosi..........now........I KNOW she is Idiocracy.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:49:03 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Maybe.........I kinda feel he is a right wing extremist because of the religious views.......but these definitions are so broad and subjective that I always have doubts no matter how much I think I really know where someone stands.

Except for Pelosi..........now........I KNOW she is Idiocracy.

she's got what plants crave! shit for brains!

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:49:25 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Maybe.........I kinda feel he is a right wing extremist because of the religious views.......but these definitions are so broad and subjective that I always have doubts no matter how much I think I really know where someone stands.

Except for Pelosi..........now........I KNOW she is Idiocracy.

You are kind of confusing the issue of the Inquisition. It really only used religion as a tool. It's real purpose was to build political power.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:50:08 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hitler generally hovers within 1 grid of economically centrist. Generally, socialism (private ownership of businesses with significant government interference) are seen at the middle of the PC spectrum.

Comparatively, FDR is in the exact same range for economic policies, which would further prove the argument that Hitler was generally in the 'centrist' area (50/50 mix of communism and capitalism).

who defined the center of that chart? I am guessing that is what I would disagree with more.....

Essentially, the argument is that if you have a left-right economic theory, with left being full communism (state ownership of 100% of goods/services), and right being completely free (Lassiez-Faire), then centrist would be a system of 50/50 ownership. Most societies are heavily regulated and have social welfare, but do not have significant amounts of government ownership of private industry, so they are somewhat right of center. If you've followed their methodology, they usually have most liberal political parties as slightly right-of-center (liberal and labour parties of Canada/UK/Australia, Democrats of the US, and so on), with conservative/republicans more closer to Thatcher's place on the chart. Leftist parties in America are indeed categorized as being truly leftist - America's Communist Party, Green Party, NDP of Canada, and so on.

Therefore, the majority of politicians we describe as being left wing aren't categorized as being left-wing on the chart (they are, however left of our current economic system). True left-wingers on their chart are FAR more frightening. Left-wingers include Robert Mugabe, Mahmoud Abbas, Stalin, Pol Pot, Nelson Mandela, and so on. Therefore, if you understand the methodology, its perfectly understandable. Yes, its uncomfortable as it gives a lot more playground for lefties to chart, but it also shows that every successful government in history has been rather right-wing.

Example of European countries on the political spectrum:

And 2008's primary election, as defined by their methodology:

And the 2004 election:

(Badnarik = Libertarian, Brown = Communist, Cobb = Green, Nader = Indie, Peroutka = Constitutional)

*edit* - Remember, you can take their quiz to see where you wind up on the chart at www.politicalcompass.org - it can help you figure out where you really are in relation to our current government.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:50:15 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Maybe.........I kinda feel he is a right wing extremist because of the religious views.......but these definitions are so broad and subjective that I always have doubts no matter how much I think I really know where someone stands.

Except for Pelosi..........now........I KNOW she is Idiocracy.

You are kind of confusing the issue of the Inquisition. It really only used religion as a tool. It's real purpose was to build political power.

Isn't that what Bin Laden was for in the end?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:51:17 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A single axis model (left to right on a line) is a flawed model of politics.

A much better model is two axis (left to right and also up to down). It's called the Nolan chart.

http://www.insteadofablog.com/images/nolanchart.gif

A lot of people here are conservative but highly authoritarian, while I am conservative but highly libertarian. These are very far apart politically and are represented as so on the Nolan chart.

eta: I'd probably be somewhere around or just under the second "a" in Libertarian.

But you could also say that since some "conservatives" are authoritarian, the fact that they want government control, would mean that they would be in the center of a left to right scale.

It would look like this

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
socialist progressive liberal conservative constitutional libertarian anarchist

According to libertarians.

You do realize that anarchism is a leftist political-economic theory? Mikhail Bakunin ring a bell?

Nolan's chart is an attempt to relocate libertarians as the "true" right. This is to avoid falling on the left side of the spectrum, where they belong.

It all depends. Leftists like to use anarchy as a tool to usher in government control. True anarchists, are people who believe that people will ultimately be able to peacefully coexist without government. So not only do you have to ways to determine political the spectrums, but you also have two ways in describing anarchy.

What is a "true" anarchist? Mikhail Bakunin argued that government was the true source of evil in society. He also believed that private property was a close second.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:51:36 AM EDT

[#38]

Sorry I'm late to the thread. Did I make it in time for the slapfight over whether or not Nazis are Leftist or not?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:52:26 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

And if this were the fifteenth century and we were in Spain you would have a point. Ironically though, it would still prove my main point in that the Catholic Church had something of a monopoly on information at the time.

The “Left’s” current monopoly on information tends to create a lot of Liberals who are completely detached from reality. If the “Right” enjoyed a similar monopoly for several decades then we would see a lot more right wing extremists.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:52:41 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Sorry I'm late to the thread. Did I make it in time for the slapfight over whether or not Nazis are Leftist or not?

Yes........but it ended quite calmly.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:52:42 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Maybe.........I kinda feel he is a right wing extremist because of the religious views.......but these definitions are so broad and subjective that I always have doubts no matter how much I think I really know where someone stands.

Except for Pelosi..........now........I KNOW she is Idiocracy.

You are kind of confusing the issue of the Inquisition. It really only used religion as a tool. It's real purpose was to build political power.

Isn't that what Bin Laden was for in the end?

Of course.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:53:03 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Joseph Stalin<––––––––––––> Adolf Hitler

Extreme Left <––––––––––––> Extreme Right

public education

No, he's right. On the classical left/right scale, fascists are on the right.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:53:32 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

So, do you think Bin Laden was a rightie?

I honestly don't know how to define him. I don't know many real conservatives that seek total domination of every single individual by a state religion. Any Christian who promoted that kind of ideal would not be conservative in my book either.

We need a new faction of some sort. Maybe religious fascism.

Maybe.........I kinda feel he is a right wing extremist because of the religious views.......but these definitions are so broad and subjective that I always have doubts no matter how much I think I really know where someone stands.

Except for Pelosi..........now........I KNOW she is Idiocracy.

You are kind of confusing the issue of the Inquisition. It really only used religion as a tool. It's real purpose was to build political power.

Isn't that what Bin Laden was for in the end?

Of course.

So, in your mind......he was a rightie?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:54:04 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Hitler generally hovers within 1 grid of economically centrist. Generally, socialism (private ownership of businesses with significant government interference) are seen at the middle of the PC spectrum.

Comparatively, FDR is in the exact same range for economic policies, which would further prove the argument that Hitler was generally in the 'centrist' area (50/50 mix of communism and capitalism).

who defined the center of that chart? I am guessing that is what I would disagree with more.....

Essentially, the argument is that if you have a left-right economic theory, with left being full communism (state ownership of 100% of goods/services), and right being completely free (Lassiez-Faire), then centrist would be a system of 50/50 ownership. Most societies are heavily regulated and have social welfare, but do not have significant amounts of government ownership of private industry, so they are somewhat right of center. If you've followed their methodology, they usually have most liberal political parties as slightly right-of-center (liberal and labour parties of Canada/UK/Australia, Democrats of the US, and so on), with conservative/republicans more closer to Thatcher's place on the chart. Leftist parties in America are indeed categorized as being truly leftist - America's Communist Party, Green Party, NDP of Canada, and so on.

Therefore, the majority of politicians we describe as being left wing aren't categorized as being left-wing on the chart (they are, however left of our current economic system). True left-wingers on their chart are FAR more frightening. Left-wingers include Robert Mugabe, Mahmoud Abbas, Stalin, Pol Pot, Nelson Mandela, and so on. Therefore, if you understand the methodology, its perfectly understandable. Yes, its uncomfortable as it gives a lot more playground for lefties to chart, but it also shows that every successful government in history has been rather right-wing.

Example of European countries on the political spectrum:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/eu2008.gif

And 2008's primary election, as defined by their methodology:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/usprimaries_2008.png

And the 2004 election:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/USelection2004.gif

(Badnarik = Libertarian, Brown = Communist, Cobb = Green, Nader = Indie, Peroutka = Constitutional)

I get it now. The left as we see them have closer to 3/4 of the territory on the chart so they appear more conservative than they are....

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:54:07 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, the "extreme right” is nowhere near as bad, mainly because it barely exists.

Torquemada = extreme right.

Exists.

Please don't try to tell me that the Inquisition was about socialism.

It was about government control, via the use of a theocracy.

A theocracy based on Catholic Christian principles which included (or at least played lip service to):

Social Justice
Wealth Distribution
Suppression of Individual Rights
Subservience to a Central Authority embodied in the Pope and his Cardinals
Control of Resources by that Central Authority including businesses, properties and capital
Laws were interpreted only by the Clergy as text were written in Latin and were kept rare and expensive

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:54:39 AM EDT

[#46]

Lots of rhetoric in two pages and we have yet to discuss just what constitutes as a modern, evil, and dangerous right winger.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:55:07 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

A single axis model (left to right on a line) is a flawed model of politics.

A much better model is two axis (left to right and also up to down). It's called the Nolan chart.

http://www.insteadofablog.com/images/nolanchart.gif

A lot of people here are conservative but highly authoritarian, while I am conservative but highly libertarian. These are very far apart politically and are represented as so on the Nolan chart.
eta: I'd probably be somewhere around or just under the second "a" in Libertarian.

But you could also say that since some "conservatives" are authoritarian, the fact that they want government control, would mean that they would be in the center of a left to right scale.

It would look like this

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

socialist progressive liberal conservative constitutional libertarian anarchist

According to libertarians.

You do realize that anarchism is a leftist political-economic theory? Mikhail Bakunin ring a bell?

Nolan's chart is an attempt to relocate libertarians as the "true" right. This is to avoid falling on the left side of the spectrum, where they belong.

It all depends. Leftists like to use anarchy as a tool to usher in government control. True anarchists, are people who believe that people will ultimately be able to peacefully coexist without government. So not only do you have to ways to determine political the spectrums, but you also have two ways in describing anarchy.

Well, there's multiple schools of thought about anarchism, just as there are about communism.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:55:53 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Joseph Stalin<––––––––––––> Adolf Hitler
Extreme Left <––––––––––––> Extreme Right

public education

No, he's right. On the classical left/right scale, fascists are on the right.

do you people make this shit up? Government control of private industry is right wing?

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:56:40 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Lots of rhetoric in two pages and we have yet to discuss just what constitutes as a modern, evil, and dangerous right winger.

George W.

Posted: 5/9/2011 6:57:21 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Lots of rhetoric in two pages and we have yet to discuss just what constitutes as a modern, evil, and dangerous right winger.

oh, just off the top of my head, I'd say those groups that shoot it out with police or kidnap their neighbors.

(Google Republic of Texas militia)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you think that the extreme right is equally as nuts as the extreme left? (Page 2 of 6)

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