Filipino Knife Fighting - Sayoc Kali - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Filipino Knife Fighting - Sayoc Kali

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:19:13 PM EDT

Inspired by the pitiful thread of the nicaraguan police officers getting slaughtered by the knife-wielding maniac. I only had a chance to attend two sessions of this about 8 years ago (Shady dude, was officially affiliated, but then disappeared), but I'd love to find another teacher.

ETA: Sorry, but the new style editor still sucks balls. Post fixed.

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:29:17 PM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:29:25 PM EDT

[#2]

Fixed. New editor still blows.

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:30:32 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

lol que? check OP.

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:30:58 PM EDT

[#4]

http://sayoc.com/?page_id=1635

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:38:26 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
http://sayoc.com/?page_id=1635

Now I just need to scrape together the funds.

Looks like a few more have popped up in the maryland area. Thanks for the reminder.

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:42:45 PM EDT

[#6]

I always thought Sayoc looked like an effective but needlessly flashy technique. Lots of very bloody knife strokes but a lot of unnecessary knife waving and twirling to go along with it. See the barong demonstration video for examples. That guy clearly knows what he is doing but he's also adding in unnecessary spins, twirling knife around his head, etc almost as if it were a dance form, which it may very well be I suppose.

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:45:54 PM EDT

[#7]

Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:47:01 PM EDT

[#8]

I'm looking to take some classes with these guys http://sayoctactical.com/

Some instructors that really have it together recommend them.

Posted: 5/9/2011 8:56:20 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

As with all things, a well-rounded education is best. He makes some great points.

Posted: 5/9/2011 9:00:24 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Good read

Posted: 5/9/2011 9:08:06 PM EDT

[#11]

They trained and choreographed with sayoc kali in this movie.

Posted: 5/9/2011 9:25:11 PM EDT

[#12]

I used to carry a knife everyday thinking I could probably defend myself with it if I needed to. I've now taken enough knife fighting classes (1.5years) to know that I NEVER want to be in a knife fight.

Nobody wins a knife fight. Somebody just loses less.

I now think of my knife as a deterrent. It's not a fighting tool, it's a bargaining tool.

Posted: 5/9/2011 9:28:35 PM EDT

[#13]

Even the cops here watch the hands of anyone coming from the canneries.

Posted: 5/10/2011 4:44:46 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I used to carry a knife everyday thinking I could probably defend myself with it if I needed to. I've now taken enough knife fighting classes (1.5years) to know that I NEVER want to be in a knife fight.

Nobody wins a knife fight. Somebody just loses less.

I now think of my knife as a deterrent. It's not a fighting tool, it's a bargaining tool.

Even still I'd rather know more about it than less.

Posted: 5/10/2011 4:51:09 AM EDT

[#15]

We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:03:32 AM EDT

[#16]

Looks like fun!

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:03:48 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I always thought Sayoc looked like an effective but needlessly flashy technique. Lots of very bloody knife strokes but a lot of unnecessary knife waving and twirling to go along with it. See the barong demonstration video for examples. That guy clearly knows what he is doing but he's also adding in unnecessary spins, twirling knife around his head, etc almost as if it were a dance form, which it may very well be I suppose.

All the twirls that you see when somebody plays with a blade does not actually make it into an actually knife fight as my instructors always say. The purpose of all those waving and twirling is to develop one's body mechanics, to be comfortable with a sharp pointy object going around your body in high speed.

When you are in a actual fight for your life with a blade like that video in the other thread, the moves are not twirly or wavy but straight to the point (pun intended). Which will be your knife into the other guy's vital areas as swift and as violent as possible.

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:18:10 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Interesting read.

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:19:34 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-5430-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-9152-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpics115.jpg

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Three rules.

1. Don't knock out any teeth (Dentists are expensive).
2. Don't break my nose (Sucks).
3. Stick to the training blades.

All that and I'm there!

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:24:54 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-5430-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-9152-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpics115.jpg

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Three rules.

1. Don't knock out any teeth (Dentists are expensive).
2. Don't break my nose (Sucks).
3. Stick to the training blades.

All that and I'm there!

We always start with the sticks before we get to the sharp pointy objects

BTW, we are organizing a group of people to come here and train from the US....no solid plan yet. Want me to PM you the details when they get ironed out? Tentative date is around late June or early July.

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:36:21 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-5430-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-9152-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpics115.jpg

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Three rules.

1. Don't knock out any teeth (Dentists are expensive).
2. Don't break my nose (Sucks).
3. Stick to the training blades.

All that and I'm there!

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-8733-border.jpg

We always start with the sticks before we get to the sharp pointy objects

BTW, we are organizing a group of people to come here and train from the US....no solid plan yet. Want me to PM you the details when they get ironed out? Tentative date is around late June or early July.

Why not? I can't promise you anything, but I'd love to hear about it regardless. What initial level of skill are you expecting out of the visitors?

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:42:33 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-5430-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-9152-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpics115.jpg

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Three rules.

1. Don't knock out any teeth (Dentists are expensive).
2. Don't break my nose (Sucks).
3. Stick to the training blades.

All that and I'm there!

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-8733-border.jpg

We always start with the sticks before we get to the sharp pointy objects

BTW, we are organizing a group of people to come here and train from the US....no solid plan yet. Want me to PM you the details when they get ironed out? Tentative date is around late June or early July.

Why not? I can't promise you anything, but I'd love to hear about it regardless. What initial level of skill are you expecting out of the visitors?

As long as you don't have any ailment that prevents you to do exercise or other forms of exertion (heart disease etc)... its all good. And that you don't mind a little bruising

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:45:03 AM EDT

[#23]

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:50:01 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-5430-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-9152-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpics115.jpg

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Three rules.

1. Don't knock out any teeth (Dentists are expensive).
2. Don't break my nose (Sucks).
3. Stick to the training blades.

All that and I'm there!

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-8733-border.jpg

We always start with the sticks before we get to the sharp pointy objects

BTW, we are organizing a group of people to come here and train from the US....no solid plan yet. Want me to PM you the details when they get ironed out? Tentative date is around late June or early July.

Why not? I can't promise you anything, but I'd love to hear about it regardless. What initial level of skill are you expecting out of the visitors?

As long as you don't have any ailment that prevents you to do exercise or other forms of exertion (heart disease etc)... its all good. And that you don't mind a little bruising

Just don't break any bones. Otherwise,

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:53:14 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

I've waded through that before. There are a few truths in there. Mostly bullshit. In the very first part he claims (brags) it takes him just over a second to draw and deploy his knife. That's nothing to brag about.

I won't go into the line by line debunking. One more that leaps out in the first paragraph is he discounts Phillipino knife styles. These are lessons learned from many years of actually finding out what works and what doesn't. Only a fool would dismiss them. I suppose he's more of a badass than the Gurkha that plowed through a train full of terrorists, too.

Everybody's an expert, I suppose.

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:58:45 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We practice Pekiti Tirsia Kali but if you ever find yourself in the Philippines, you are welcome to train with us

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-5430-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-9152-border.jpg

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpics115.jpg

ETA,

In before somebody mentions some hot Filipina womenss that they met outside some Naval base...

Three rules.

1. Don't knock out any teeth (Dentists are expensive).
2. Don't break my nose (Sucks).
3. Stick to the training blades.

All that and I'm there!

http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af48/forarfcom/compressedpic-8733-border.jpg

We always start with the sticks before we get to the sharp pointy objects

BTW, we are organizing a group of people to come here and train from the US....no solid plan yet. Want me to PM you the details when they get ironed out? Tentative date is around late June or early July.

PM details. Thanks.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:03:44 AM EDT

[#27]

I took a karate class years ago

instructor was fantastic

one day for class he told us a story about the time he had been mugged in D.C. with another martial arts instructor

they put the mugger in the hospital and both got xxx stitches for their effort

he brought in rubber knives that day for his advanced students to "learn" with

at the end of the "lesson" he asked "what has this taught you"

everyone looked clueless

i looked at him and said "i'm gonna bring a gun to a knife fight"

he smiled and said "exactly"

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:06:59 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

I've waded through that before. There are a few truths in there. Mostly bullshit. In the very first part he claims (brags) it takes him just over a second to draw and deploy his knife. That's nothing to brag about.

I won't go into the line by line debunking. One more that leaps out in the first paragraph is he discounts Phillipino knife styles. These are lessons learned from many years of actually finding out what works and what doesn't. Only a fool would dismiss them. I suppose he's more of a badass than the Gurkha that plowed through a train full of terrorists, too.

Everybody's an expert, I suppose.

I am not familiar with the instructors there in the states but have these "Knife Instructors" seen actual combat?

What gives me confidence in my instructors is that they have actually seen combat and they have applied what they teach to live targets.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:08:57 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Interesting read.

Very. That guy's been around for a long time.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:20:00 AM EDT

[#30]

I'm scheduled for a Steve Tarani knife course in two weeks....

I've trained all over with pistol, carbine, mma, etc. This will be my first knife course.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:23:11 AM EDT

[#31]

I have studied several martial arts. One was Kali. I recommend it.
The best thing about Kali is that you learn to move at an angle to your enemy.
This is much better than other styles because you are out of the way of an attack
(especially considering tunnel vision) and you are at the enemies back.

Kali is not the perfect style but my Instructor Walter Woodruff was a Marine. Having a realistic mindset
he stripped away some of unneeded "extras".

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:29:25 AM EDT

[#32]

http://youtu.be/9TtP4x-sRew

Another advantage of stick and knife training is that you can pick up almost any improvised weapon and feel comfortable.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:39:25 AM EDT

[#33]

Bang! Bang! Bang!...............next.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:52:09 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Bang! Bang! Bang!...............next.

It doesn't work that way, chief. Especially within arm's reach. I've prooved it over and over in the dojo with training knives and airsoft. If I ever did get hit, it was a peripheral hit and the shooter would have had several major arteries cut according to the marker on him.

Watch the video of the cops and knifer (even though they didn't have a clue as to what they were doing. Knife guy got ONE good lick on the first guy and he was down, out and probably one of the dead judging from the looks of him at the end of the vid.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:55:42 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Bang! Bang! Bang!...............next.

Everything has it's place. Give it a try sometime if it's available to you. I loved what little I did get to experiece.

Posted: 5/10/2011 6:55:55 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

http://sayoc.com/?page_id=1635

Now I just need to scrape together the funds.

Looks like a few more have popped up in the maryland area. Thanks for the reminder.

contact the guy at trainingblades.com (Bob)

He should know some good Sayoc guys to go to in MD.

If you ever get interested in Muay thai or CSW contact the MD thai boxing academy as well. Good people there all trained under Ajarn Chai and Erik Paulson.

Posted: 5/10/2011 7:05:17 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Lies about knife fighting. I think it's a good read for anyone taking such classes. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

I've waded through that before. There are a few truths in there. Mostly bullshit. In the very first part he claims (brags) it takes him just over a second to draw and deploy his knife. That's nothing to brag about.

I won't go into the line by line debunking. One more that leaps out in the first paragraph is he discounts Phillipino knife styles. These are lessons learned from many years of actually finding out what works and what doesn't. Only a fool would dismiss them. I suppose he's more of a badass than the Gurkha that plowed through a train full of terrorists, too.

Everybody's an expert, I suppose.

I like Marc MacYoung a lot, but I think that page should be reworked to include some of the recent legal changes regarding self defense.

His main point however is not that FMA guys can't fuck you up something fierce. Rather what he's getting at is that the context is different here in the US- most bad guys using knives are going to ambush/rush you, rather than square off in a "fair fight". So if you decide to square off in a fair fight with a knife (at least in the 70's and 80's when Marc was in the game) you'd be going to jail, and if you did find yourself in a legal self defense situation with a knife, you'd likely end up on the ground with a 200 pound felon pinning you to the ground with a pawn shop Rambo knife, because he didn't follow the agreed upon knife fighting protocols.

Where I disagree with Marc is in his insistence that there will never be occasion to stand your ground against someone. Knowing I'll be spending the next six or so years in schools that almost certainly will not allow me to carry means that every now and then

I won't be able to carry. I think an "Amok" situation is uniquely suited for a FMA response.

Posted: 5/10/2011 9:12:46 AM EDT

[#38]

video of some edged weapon/gun/open hand drill http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=168962866483171

Martial arts seem like they need even more practice than shooting. You need to keep in a rhythm it seems

Posted: 5/16/2011 1:06:07 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Bang! Bang! Bang!...............next.

It doesn't work that way, chief. Especially within arm's reach. I've prooved it over and over in the dojo with training knives and airsoft. If I ever did get hit, it was a peripheral hit and the shooter would have had several major arteries cut according to the marker on him.

Watch the video of the cops and knifer (even though they didn't have a clue as to what they were doing. Knife guy got ONE good lick on the first guy and he was down, out and probably one of the dead judging from the looks of him at the end of the vid.

+1

Learning how to yield a blade and learning to deal with a person attacking with a blade is a vital skill that you need aside from knowing how to shoot a gun well. Learning blade based martial arts adds more options to your list choices of what to do.

Another thing I appreciate about the blade based martial arts is that it removes the programming that was drilled into us when we were kids (at least from my experience). Were it was rude to aim at a person's neck, groin, eyes and the other vital areas that you must hit to have a high change of stopping a bad guy. Basically it taught me that you must apply violence to in a controlled manner to come out winning, I don't think thats something you can learn by simply practicing your shooting at a range all day

Posted: 5/16/2011 1:20:10 AM EDT

[#40]

Someone beat me to the knifelies site.

Posted: 5/16/2011 2:04:23 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
I took a karate class years ago

instructor was fantastic

one day for class he told us a story about the time he had been mugged in D.C. with another martial arts instructor

they put the mugger in the hospital and both got xxx stitches for their effort

he brought in rubber knives that day for his advanced students to "learn" with

at the end of the "lesson" he asked "what has this taught you"

everyone looked clueless

i looked at him and said "i'm gonna bring a gun to a knife fight"

he smiled and said "exactly"

Sounds like my old sensei. We dicked around with gun and knife disarms once. A few people in the class were quick enough to execute a gun disarm without getting shot some of the time. But everyone got 'cuts' in on everyone else when the rubber knives came out. Moral of the story, shoot someone if they try to stab you.