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Posted: 12/25/2011 6:48:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Butthole area decomposes the fastest. Thats the easiest part to get a start on the hide. Ever see a hog go after a bloated horse or cow ?
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Posted: 12/25/2011 6:50:13 PM EDT
[#2]
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Shot placement was great. Um, no. Not if said deer ran for 400 yards AFTER being shot. Um yes, cut aorta and lungs = perfect. That's a mule deer yes? Mule deer have a lot of sand in their ass. You should have shot him twice. No it is a whitetail. He didn't want to let me shoot again. I yelled at him to stop so I could shoot him again, but he just ran faster. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 6:51:18 PM EDT
[#3]
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Butthole area decomposes the fastest. Thats the easiest part to get a start on the hide. Ever see a hog go after a bloated horse or cow ? He was'nt decomposing, temps were below 30 degrees. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 6:54:25 PM EDT
[#4]
What type of bullet?
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Posted: 12/25/2011 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#5]
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What type of bullet? 430 gr. keith type hard cast. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:01:00 PM EDT
[#6]
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What type of bullet? 430 gr. keith type hard cast. That was a typo 420 Grn cast from a RanchDog bullet mold, which is a Keith Style. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:01:07 PM EDT
[#7]
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Shot placement was great. Um, no. Not if said deer ran for 400 yards AFTER being shot. Um yes, cut aorta and lungs = perfect. That's a mule deer yes? Mule deer have a lot of sand in their ass. You should have shot him twice. No it is a whitetail. He didn't want to let me shoot again. I yelled at him to stop so I could shoot him again, but he just ran faster. Next time ask politely, deer wiil probably stop and offer a perfect broadside. You didn't mention the range or the rifle used. 18" Marlin or something like it may have slowed the bullet down enough that it didn't really shock the deer. I think you mentioned a 420 hard cast Lyman? I use those and they seem to hit HARD if you were driving it fast enough. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:01:39 PM EDT
[#8]
The only thing that would make this thread better would be if you actually did fry up a butthole and eat it. Dinner pic.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:02:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Try some 350 hollow points next time. Hard cast is for penetration.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:03:35 PM EDT
[#10]
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Shit Happens.....It was you and not the weapon/cartridge.....Get over it. Practice make perfect. How was it me? Other than my choice to use a 430 grn Hard Cast Keith Bullet. Shot placement was great. Aha. Soft point bullet was developed for a reason....... yup Regular ol 300gr JHP's are devastating on deer , moose , bear and humans 
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:04:36 PM EDT
[#11]
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Shit Happens.....It was you and not the weapon/cartridge.....Get over it. Practice make perfect. How was it me? Other than my choice to use a 430 grn Hard Cast Keith Bullet. Shot placement was great. Aha. Soft point bullet was developed for a reason....... yup Regular ol 300gr JHP's are devastating on deer , moose , bear and humans I would agree with this if the rifle was short barrelled and the range was close. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:17:41 PM EDT
[#12]
OP, don't let them get to you. I've killed tons of game & had lots that have run hundreds of yards with no heart, or holes through their lungs. I worked my way up to 300 Win Mag, looking to anchor them, but finally gave up & went back to 308. I used to eradicate deer & hogs from a 5,000 citrus grove operation & learned tons. Critters, not you, determine whether they go down or not. Last straw was when I shot a 90lb doe broadside & me & my buddies watched her run 300yds with no heart & damaged lungs.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:18:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I shot a buck Friday evening with my 45/70. He ran off and I did not find him until the next morning. He covered over 400 yards and left the tiniest of blood trails. I am going to have to move back up to the 223. This is disappointing.  You misspelled ".410 gauge". .410 isn't a gauge. You fail at pointing out fails You fail at recognizing common euphanisms. Have a nice Ramadan. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:24:26 PM EDT
[#14]
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OP, don't let them get to you. I've killed tons of game & had lots that have run hundreds of yards with no heart, or holes through their lungs. I worked my way up to 300 Win Mag, looking to anchor them, but finally gave up & went back to 308. I used to eradicate deer & hogs from a 5,000 citrus grove operation & learned tons. Critters, not you, determine whether they go down or not. Last straw was when I shot a 90lb doe broadside & me & my buddies watched her run 300yds with no heart & damaged lungs. Oh I know, I knew what kind of response I would get, this is humorous to me! I have shot hundreds of deer with a lot of calibers. Have seen all kinds of crazy things, I just like to hear the GD "Experts" take on things. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:40:11 PM EDT
[#15]
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I shot a buck Friday evening with my 45/70. He ran off and I did not find him until the next morning. He covered over 400 yards and left the tiniest of blood trails. I am going to have to move back up to the 223. This is disappointing. You misspelled ".410 gauge". 36 gauge Actually closer to 64 1/2 gauge...... |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:49:07 PM EDT
[#16]
They go for the ass because it is the easiest way to gain access.
Also, I took this guy with one round of M193 at 40 yards. DRT. 
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:57:03 PM EDT
[#17]
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They go for the ass because it is the easiest way to gain access. Also, I took this guy with one round of M193 at 40 yards. DRT. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e339/octopus5alive/katieandme.jpg see 223 > 45/70
Also that looks like the panhandle, are you my neighbor? |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:12:22 PM EDT
[#18]
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OP, don't let them get to you. I've killed tons of game & had lots that have run hundreds of yards with no heart, or holes through their lungs. I worked my way up to 300 Win Mag, looking to anchor them, but finally gave up & went back to 308. I used to eradicate deer & hogs from a 5,000 citrus grove operation & learned tons. Critters, not you, determine whether they go down or not. Last straw was when I shot a 90lb doe broadside & me & my buddies watched her run 300yds with no heart & damaged lungs. Oh I know, I knew what kind of response I would get, this is humorous to me! I have shot hundreds of deer with a lot of calibers. Have seen all kinds of crazy things, I just like to hear the GD "Experts" take on things. This is also funny to those of us that frequent the hunting side of ARF and know your work 
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:22:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Some deer just don't know that they're dead.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:25:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Barring an artillery strike, a solid CNS hit is the only way to guarantee a immediate drop(and even then movement may be regained in the area upstream from the hit). Larger cartridges provide an increased probability of hitting the vitals from longer ranges and with less ideal target presentations(A Texas heart shot is a viable option w/ a 30-06, not so much w/ a 5.56.).
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:26:37 PM EDT
[#21]
OP, I shot a nice 8 pt that was about 50 yds in front of me, he was angling away, my .270/130gr. hit him nice and high, exited the opposite shoulder, whistled through and the m.f ran 300+ yards. He was running when I shot him, I mean RUNNING, no way a head shot. We looked for 31/2 hr in the dark, found him next morning, after about an hour. Would do it again, just sucked I lost it, shit happens. You'll shoot one next week and won't take a step.
Shoot him in the head with a .22 mag., out go the lights, shoot him through the lungs with a .50 BMG, and it seems sometimes the fucker will run for hundreds of yards. Good looking deer. Happy Holidays! 
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:27:23 PM EDT
[#22]
You must always test rounds that you plan to hunt with!!!!!!! Too many people get caught up in grains and velocity and whatever the new super duper high tech whatever tipped thing of the day is. I know people that have taken deer and elk with a 22lr. And I know people who have dumped 7 plus rounds of 300win mag in an elk and the elk walked away like nothing happened never to be seen again.
Is the 45/70 a good round? Yes. Can it suck monkey balls? Yes, if used at the wrong time with the wrong combo of circumstances. All rounds can kill and all rounds can cripple. OP, I have no idea if you did any penetration/expansion tests with your round prior to the hunt, but if you did not then you have learned a lesson. If you did then you have still learned something, ie change your testing routine to mimic what you are hunting. If a bullet does not expand, then there is not a larger wound cavity. If it expands too fast then you ruin a shit load of meat. Better luck next buck |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:31:50 PM EDT
[#23]
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You must always test rounds that you plan to hunt with!!!!!!! Too many people get caught up in grains and velocity and whatever the new super duper high tech whatever tipped thing of the day is. I know people that have taken deer and elk with a 22lr. And I know people who have dumped 7 plus rounds of 300win mag in an elk and the elk walked away like nothing happened never to be seen again. Is the 45/70 a good round? Yes. Can it suck monkey balls? Yes, if used at the wrong time with the wrong combo of circumstances. All rounds can kill and all rounds can cripple. OP, I have no idea if you did any penetration/expansion tests with your round prior to the hunt, but if you did not then you have learned a lesson. If you did then you have still learned something, ie change your testing routine to mimic what you are hunting. If a bullet does not expand, then there is not a larger wound cavity. If it expands too fast then you ruin a shit load of meat. Better luck next buck I knew exactly what this bullet would do, its not an expander. Its a penetrator. I was actually trying to spine him, but I shot just a bit low. Like I have said I could shoot 100 more deer with the exact same shot placement and may never experience the same thing. The only thing that really surprised me about this is the lack of a blood trail. If there had not been so many deer with him when I shot I would have found him right away. I was apparently watching the wrong deer run, they went out of sight for a second and then came back into view. He ran straight and most of the other deer ran to the left. I saw one running funny and was sure it was him. I walked with in 50 yards of him in the dark on the way back to my truck. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:38:19 PM EDT
[#24]
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You must always test rounds that you plan to hunt with!!!!!!! Too many people get caught up in grains and velocity and whatever the new super duper high tech whatever tipped thing of the day is. I know people that have taken deer and elk with a 22lr. And I know people who have dumped 7 plus rounds of 300win mag in an elk and the elk walked away like nothing happened never to be seen again. Is the 45/70 a good round? Yes. Can it suck monkey balls? Yes, if used at the wrong time with the wrong combo of circumstances. All rounds can kill and all rounds can cripple. OP, I have no idea if you did any penetration/expansion tests with your round prior to the hunt, but if you did not then you have learned a lesson. If you did then you have still learned something, ie change your testing routine to mimic what you are hunting. If a bullet does not expand, then there is not a larger wound cavity. If it expands too fast then you ruin a shit load of meat. Better luck next buck I knew exactly what this bullet would do, its not an expander. Its a penetrator. I was actually trying to spine him, but I shot just a bit low. Like I have said I could shoot 100 more deer with the exact same shot placement and may never experience the same thing. The only thing that really surprised me about this is the lack of a blood trail. If there had not been so many deer with him when I shot I would have found him right away. I was apparently watching the wrong deer run, they went out of sight for a second and then came back into view. He ran straight and most of the other deer ran to the left. I saw one running funny and was sure it was him. I walked with in 50 yards of him in the dark on the way back to my truck. Why did you want a bullet that penetrated on a white tail? I know things are bigger in Tx but it doesnt look like its been wearing body armor. Not picking a fight with you but I am just wonderin |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:44:39 PM EDT
[#25]
It ain't the caliber, it's the name brand. And that's why I only shoot a Remington 700. I once laid my rifle in the high grass on a pipeline as an experiment. There was a heavy deer crossing there.
I watched 3 different deer walk to within 20 yard proximity of my hidden rifle and keel over dead. I rushed to get down from my stand and recover the rifle before any more damage was done to the native wildlife after watching a hawk fly over and plummet to the earth. Damnedest thing I ever saw. 
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:44:40 PM EDT
[#26]
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You must always test rounds that you plan to hunt with!!!!!!! Too many people get caught up in grains and velocity and whatever the new super duper high tech whatever tipped thing of the day is. I know people that have taken deer and elk with a 22lr. And I know people who have dumped 7 plus rounds of 300win mag in an elk and the elk walked away like nothing happened never to be seen again. Is the 45/70 a good round? Yes. Can it suck monkey balls? Yes, if used at the wrong time with the wrong combo of circumstances. All rounds can kill and all rounds can cripple. OP, I have no idea if you did any penetration/expansion tests with your round prior to the hunt, but if you did not then you have learned a lesson. If you did then you have still learned something, ie change your testing routine to mimic what you are hunting. If a bullet does not expand, then there is not a larger wound cavity. If it expands too fast then you ruin a shit load of meat. Better luck next buck I knew exactly what this bullet would do, its not an expander. Its a penetrator. I was actually trying to spine him, but I shot just a bit low. Like I have said I could shoot 100 more deer with the exact same shot placement and may never experience the same thing. The only thing that really surprised me about this is the lack of a blood trail. If there had not been so many deer with him when I shot I would have found him right away. I was apparently watching the wrong deer run, they went out of sight for a second and then came back into view. He ran straight and most of the other deer ran to the left. I saw one running funny and was sure it was him. I walked with in 50 yards of him in the dark on the way back to my truck. Why did you want a bullet that penetrated on a white tail? I know things are bigger in Tx but it doesnt look like its been wearing body armor. Not picking a fight with you but I am just wonderin This is the ammo I have for the 45/70 I wanted to shoot a deer with the 45/70. I am going to try and shoot some does in the AM. Doubt the results will be the same. I know a few guys that have shot multiple deer with this same bullet and load and put them in the dirt with out a spine shot. This was just one of those weird things that happens sometimes. I have had the same thing happen with a 30'06 and 150 grn SSTs. No blood trail and the deer ran further. All torn up inside. |
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:45:57 PM EDT
[#27]
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It ain't the caliber, it's the name brand. And that's why I only shoot a Remington 700. I once laid my rifle in the high grass on a pipeline as an experiment. There was a heavy deer crossing there. I watched 3 different deer walk to within 20 yard proximity of my hidden rifle and keel over dead. I rushed to get down from my stand and recover the rifle before any more damage was done to the native wildlife after watching a hawk fly over and plummet to the earth. Damnedest thing I ever saw. 
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Posted: 12/26/2011 3:55:44 AM EDT
[#28]
At least you got him. Deer sometimes run. I've found it's best to sit tight for a good 20-30mins and let them bleed out when you know you're going to be tracking.
I've seen plenty of instances where guys took shots (with a variety of calibers) and got no deer. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:11:02 AM EDT
[#29]
That's funny that they camouflaged him with hay.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:15:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Wow I've seen fatally shot deer run, but never 400 yards pumping all their blood into their chest cavity.
When their heart has a hole in it and they run its pumps their bood out faster. 400 yards is a long way when a deer is bled out.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:29:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: This was just one of those weird things that happens sometimes.
Exactly . Shit happens , especially in the wild . Next time use a 45-120
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:33:12 AM EDT
[#32]
Ive also seen deer that had no vitals run a long way. the problem i have is how you couldnt find a deer laying in a wide open cut field.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:35:09 AM EDT
[#33]
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Butthole area decomposes the fastest. Thats the easiest part to get a start on the hide. Ever see a hog go after a bloated horse or cow ? He was'nt decomposing, temps were below 30 degrees. Yes he was to some degree. A ungutted animal can keep a high enough tempature for a long time. Something with the body mass of a moose will spoil if not opened up and gutted |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:39:32 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:41:30 AM EDT
[#35]
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It ain't the caliber, it's the name brand. And that's why I only shoot a Remington 700. I once laid my rifle in the high grass on a pipeline as an experiment. There was a heavy deer crossing there. I watched 3 different deer walk to within 20 yard proximity of my hidden rifle and keel over dead. I rushed to get down from my stand and recover the rifle before any more damage was done to the native wildlife after watching a hawk fly over and plummet to the earth. Damnedest thing I ever saw. I used to have to hunt deer with a shotgun. I used a Remington 870 pump,and all I had to do was rack the slide and any deer within earshot dropped in their tracks. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:48:20 AM EDT
[#36]
Your anecdotal evidence, is well, anecdotal. I've killed probably thirty deer in my life, and of those I have probably had more drop on the spot with lung shots with a 30-30 Winchester than any other calibre. Do I think the 30-30 is the best deer cartridge? No.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:55:19 AM EDT
[#37]
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The shot was good. Went in just in front of right shoulder came out 6" behind left shoulder cut his Aorta and got the top of both lungs. What was the slug made out of, solid copper? |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 4:56:04 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
OP, don't let them get to you. I've killed tons of game & had lots that have run hundreds of yards with no heart, or holes through their lungs. I worked my way up to 300 Win Mag, looking to anchor them, but finally gave up & went back to 308. I used to eradicate deer & hogs from a 5,000 citrus grove operation & learned tons. Critters, not you, determine whether they go down or not. Last straw was when I shot a 90lb doe broadside & me & my buddies watched her run 300yds with no heart & damaged lungs. I lost a deer overnight one time from a double lung shot with very little blood to track, It was a fast shot with no option , Now the only way I shoot a deer is in the head. They simply cannot run without a brain. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:07:53 AM EDT
[#39]
If anything a 45/70 is over powered for a deer. If you were used a hard cast or even a jacketed flat nose its way too dense. If a bullet can't expand and deposit its energy into the animal its not going to be effective. You round over penetrated. That and shot placement. even tho you took out the lungs there was not enough resistance and the bullet zipped right through.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:26:16 AM EDT
[#40]
How far was your shot? What ammo were you using?
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:33:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Learn how to aim. or Aiming. How does it work?
 2 of the deer I shot with my crossbow this year left shit for blood. Both double lung shots, complete pass thru, 1 3/4" 3 blade broadhead. Sometimes they just don't leave much of a blood trail. I watched 1 of them fall after 30 yards, and still couldn't find any blood. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:38:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Good for buffalo but not deer? |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:45:55 AM EDT
[#43]
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What type of bullet? 430 gr. keith type hard cast. That was a typo 420 Grn cast from a RanchDog bullet mold, which is a Keith Style. Was it a special order mold from RD(Lee)...I think all of his are RNFP I shoot the 265Gr RD out of my .44s |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:58:54 AM EDT
[#44]
TRACKING - What ever you shoot deer with you will need to be able to follow a blood trail. It always helps to work with someone else because one guy alone tends to become discouraged when not able to determine where the blood trail turns. There are times when deer will lay down then double back. I hunt deer primarily with a bow. I can say from experience that the solution to finding the blood trail when it gets very difficult is to get down on your hands and knees and get close to the grass and look for even the smallest of drops on the sides of grass and brush. When you have a deer that does not fall right there you are usually better off to wait an hour or two and let them bleed out. A woulded deer will usually run a short distance and lay down if you do not push him he will stay there and bleed out if you pursue him too soon it will be a much longer blood trail.
UNDERSTANDING BULLET DESIGN: To transfer energy within the target ANIMAL- bullet design plays a huge role. There is a reason that bullets like Nosler Partition bullets do well on game they are designed to expand the front half of the bullet but retain a heavy solid rear portion of the bullet which penetrates deeply. The Keith style solid will kill but it is like shooting a Full Metal Jacket bullet into something, you get lots of penetration little expansion. Want the deer to drop right now - use an expanding bullet like a hollow point or a bullet like Nosler Partition or the Barnes copper hollowpoint bullets. Want to use the Keith style bullet aim to hit bone break that front shoulder and the deer will go down right there. P.S. anytime you are ready to throw out that 45-70 just send it to me I'll give it a good home. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 6:01:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Ain't ballistics a bitch?
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Posted: 12/26/2011 6:04:55 AM EDT
[#46]
lmao, shit happens.
A lighter more frangible bullet would probably have worked better given the exact same shot placement. You probably already know that 
ETA:  Fry up an asshole.... yea the birds and bobcats sure do seem to like them
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Posted: 12/26/2011 6:57:11 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Haters suck...still a good round, nice looking deer...thanks for posting, I love a good deer hunt. Damn folks...dead is dead...fucking GD has way too many children/internethunters.... ...unless it's found dead the following morning, partially eaten by coyotes, then it's a loss.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 6:57:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Bullets that don't destroy the CNS work through exsanguination. Big heavy bullets are great for deep penetration but often don't do as well on the temporary wound channel side of things...which is a source of the rifle's effectiveness in putting something/someone down.
If you don't cause massive bleeding through complete destruction of major organs like heart and lungs it's possible for them to clot up and take longer to run out of gas. Even with a solid hit you never know. I've shot deer right through the heart, literally shredding it to a lump of goo and they've run almost 100 yards. I've seen deer hit through both lungs with a broadhead, on the other hand, take two steps and pass out because they'd already lost so much blood. If you're going to use a .45/70 that could be used on a wooly mammoth, perhaps consider aiming it at a great big bone structure like the shoulder, especially if you have an angling shot. That way you make them less mobile, inflict a lot more damage, and still punch a hole through vitals. Better chance of a useful blood trail and they'll probably not be able to run as far. |
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Posted: 12/26/2011 7:03:59 AM EDT
[#49]
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What type of bullet? 430 gr. keith type hard cast. That was a typo 420 Grn cast from a RanchDog bullet mold, which is a Keith Style. Just as a side note, old Elmer Keith loved the .45-70 with cast bullets for hunting. He believed that some fast Jacketed hunting rounds tore up too much meat and left a lot of the meat "blood shot". Elmer said, "With the .45-70, you can eat the meat right up to the hole."
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Posted: 12/26/2011 7:06:08 AM EDT
[#50]
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Shit Happens.....It was you and not the weapon/cartridge.....Get over it. Practice make perfect. How was it me? Other than my choice to use a 430 grn Hard Cast Keith Bullet. Shot placement was great. It was totally you - given that bullet choice, you made a crappy shot... Now, had you shot thru the shoulders with that sort of bullet, I guarantee you'd have different results... I've killed literally several hundred deer, and do actually know a little about this - don't be a tard... - georgestrings |
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