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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - You Ain't Seen Bad Yet But It's Comin'- LAST OFFICIAL THREAD (Page 56 of 152)

Posted: 2/28/2013 10:35:03 PM EDT

[#1]

Well, I'll be damned. The sequester is inbound.

Posted: 2/28/2013 10:39:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Well, I'll be damned. The sequester is inbound.

Nope. They'll cut a deal at the last moment.

Posted: 2/28/2013 10:40:48 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Well, I'll be damned. The sequester is inbound.

Nope. They'll cut a deal at the last moment.

Two senate bills just failed. I thought that was the last minute.

Posted: 2/28/2013 10:42:18 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well, I'll be damned. The sequester is inbound.

Nope. They'll cut a deal at the last moment.

Two senate bills just failed. I thought that was the last minute.

I'll believe it when I see it. They do this shit for a living, they know how and when they can get away with what they want too. Hell, "Deem it passed? ring any bells?

Posted: 2/28/2013 10:52:56 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Well, I'll be damned. The sequester is inbound.

Nope. They'll cut a deal at the last moment.

Two senate bills just failed. I thought that was the last minute.

I'll believe it when I see it. They do this shit for a living, they know how and when they can get away with what they want too. Hell, "Deem it passed? ring any bells?

I posted this two days ago:

Not enough balls in Congress for it to happen. It's a dog and pony show like the debt ceiling talk.

Right now fiscally, if it needs to happen, it won't. If it's bad for us, it's almost a guarantee.

This just seems like as last minute as it gets.

Posted: 2/28/2013 10:57:35 PM EDT

[#6]

The Sequester is small peanuts, in another month the continuing resolution comes due and that is what most of the financially savvy politicians are thinking about. Govt can't borrow any more and the wrench will be thrown into the gears.

The Republicans, if they had a set of balls, would be vehemently pushing for a budget to be passed. Sadly, they got their balls cut off after 2008 and they have not found them yet.

Posted: 3/1/2013 4:28:46 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The Sequester is small peanuts, in another month the continuing resolution comes due and that is what most of the financially savvy politicians are thinking about. Govt can't borrow any more and the wrench will be thrown into the gears.

The Republicans, if they had a set of balls, would be vehemently pushing for a budget to be passed. Sadly, they got their balls cut off after 2008 and they have not found them yet.

It's as if the school chess society was handed the Republican party and they still haven't moved it up the ladder for discussion.

Posted: 3/1/2013 9:13:05 AM EDT

[#8]

'Change' you can Believe In...

INCOMES DROP MOST IN 20 YEARS

It's all WE are left with...Change

Reminder: 3 Quarters + 1 Dime + 2 Nickels + 5 Pennies = $1.00

Bonus Question:

If a Government doesn't have a Dollar to spend what do they do?

Right...They Steal it from from Productive Citizens, 'Hoping' future Generation will continue the Tradition

OUR Elected Traitors Representatives are directly Responsible for this, and 'WE' the People reelected them.

Posted: 3/1/2013 9:18:57 AM EDT

[#9]

Doom and Gloom:

As Glock-O linked to above: personal income imploded by 3.6% month-over-month, and the savings rate dropped precipitously as well

Consumer Taps Out As Income Plunges By Most In 20 Years: Savings Rate Crashes To 2007 Levels

Posted: 3/1/2013 9:50:50 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Doom and Gloom:
As Glock-O linked to above: personal income imploded by 3.6% month-over-month, and the savings rate dropped precipitously as well

Consumer Taps Out As Income Plunges By Most In 20 Years: Savings Rate Crashes To 2007 Levels
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/03/personal%20savings%20rate%20feb.jpg

I'm a little confused, so if WE the People are earning less, wouldn't that equate to OUR Government 'Earning' Less also?

OOOPS, I forgot about the $16+ Trillion 'Line of Credit'

I guess WE should expect another Debt Ceiling Fiasco Increase in the FED's QE monthly budget soon.

My Bad, maybe a Mod could Edit my post to make the 'Stupid' disappear...

Ivy League 'Genius' Leading the way

eta...Bloomberg: Don't Panic, USA Has 'Infinite Amount of Money'...

Posted: 3/1/2013 10:08:47 AM EDT

[#11]

Sequester is a 2% decrease in the proposed increase.

Posted: 3/1/2013 1:21:57 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote:

"Furthermore, while saying the federal deficit does indeed need to be curtailed, Mr. Bloomberg argued the United States could owe “an infinite amount of money” and there is no specific amount that would cause the country to default.

“We are spending money we don’t have,” Mr. Bloomberg explained. “It’s not like your household. In your household, people are saying, ‘Oh, you can’t spend money you don’t have.’ That is true for your household because nobody is going to lend you an infinite amount of money. When it comes to the United States federal government, people do seem willing to lend us an infinite amount of money. … Our debt is so big and so many people own it that it’s preposterous to think that they would stop selling us more. It’s the old story: If you owe the bank $50,000, you got a problem. If you owe the bank $50 million, they got a problem. And that’s a problem for the lenders. They can’t stop lending us more money.”

YAY!!!

Spending money we DON'T have!

Don't panic Bro! What could go wrong?

Posted: 3/1/2013 1:25:27 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Sequester is a 2% decrease in the proposed increase.

http://youtu.be/9NZtut40O24

Fire them!

Posted: 3/1/2013 1:27:34 PM EDT

[#14]

Working on Bug-Out-Location plans currently. If it'll just hold off for a couple years...

Posted: 3/1/2013 3:33:46 PM EDT

[#15]

"I See A Storm Coming"

...he’s decided to speak out now because he sees "a storm coming, maybe bigger than the storm we had in 2008, 2010."
His fear is that the ballooning costs of Social Security, Medicare and
Medicaid (which with unfunded liabilities are as high as $211 trillion)
will bankrupt the nation's youth an pose a much greater danger than the
debt currently being debated in Congress. He said, "While everybody
is focusing on the here and now, there's a much, much bigger storm
that's about to hit... I am not against seniors. What I am against is
current seniors stealing from future seniors."

Shh...just keep everyone distracted over these irrelevant 'Cuts' about to go into effect; I still think, sometime before 23:59:59, WE will witness a 'Miracle' by OUR Oligarchs

Don't catch the Stupid

Posted: 3/1/2013 3:59:31 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I like to think of myself as a libertarian but I have to think a financial transaction tax might put a stop to this bullshit.

It is, after all, not a free market anyway.

I despise these algorithms.

I understand your frustration. I also know you don't really mean it when you say, as a libertarian you'd like to curtail freedom with government intervention. Understanding black box trading programs is a difficult task for most people. But it's not impossible. I can also tell you they aren't "magic", and potentially pose tremendous risk to those that would deploy them. I won't go into the details but high velocity black box trading isn't the "great devil" some would make it out to be.

There are many alternatives to investment then "playing in their game". But even those that choose to tango in their dance, which I wouldn't recommend, can take advantage of their limitations. There are lots of exploits which provide opportunity for someone who wishes to legitimately wage war on these financial battlefields. In my opinion, they aren't as much a threat as many imagine.

Someone else suggested (it might have even been on this site) that an SEC rule limiting the "price sniffing" algos to something that would simulate a normal human reaction time - such as two seconds - would go a long way toward curbing abuse.

Posted: 3/1/2013 11:59:41 PM EDT

[#17]

" We have nothing to fear, but fear itself "

Posted: 3/2/2013 2:09:14 AM EDT

[#18]

Bad news folks. The Sequester shut down the West Texas oilfields.

All of us oilfield trash are just sitting around doing nothing, waiting on our benevolent overlords to bail us out.

Oh wait, no... we are still drilling. Rain or shine, hell or high water the private sector has found a way to dig down 3 miles, turn, dig 2 more miles horizontally, frac, produce, transport, refine, and deliver liquid energy to the people of this world 365 days a year.

And these assclowns in DC can't even pass a budget because it would require them to "stand for something".

Professional politicians are walking ink blot tests. Make of them what you will, so long as you vote for them.

Posted: 3/2/2013 5:16:05 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

"I See A Storm Coming"

...he’s decided to speak out now because he sees "a storm coming, maybe bigger than the storm we had in 2008, 2010." His fear is that the ballooning costs of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (which with unfunded liabilities are as high as $211 trillion) will bankrupt the nation's youth an pose a much greater danger than the debt currently being debated in Congress. He said, "While everybody is focusing on the here and now, there's a much, much bigger storm that's about to hit... I am not against seniors. What I am against is current seniors stealing from future seniors."

Shh...just keep everyone distracted over these irrelevant 'Cuts' about to go into effect; I still think, sometime before 23:59:59, WE will witness a 'Miracle' by OUR Oligarchs

Don't catch the Stupid

Maybe the current generation of 'lazy' youth are NOT as dumb as we thought.

Posted: 3/2/2013 9:10:25 AM EDT

[#20]

" This sums it all up "

Posted: 3/2/2013 10:43:15 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

" This sums it all up "

Very good piece.

In behavioral and experimental economics we concern ourselves with the root cause. I feel that human behavior can be explained in simple binary variables. (as can most universal phenomena) Complexity is an illusionary construct. If you, or anyone resorts to "...its more complex then that..." you are usually wrong. Individual "good" and individual "bad". What we define as "utility" in economics is fairly simple. Philosophy and proxology, the predecessor to modern economics, has attempted to define and understand these variables on both a micro and macro scale. People strive for that which they "individually" value, they avoid that which they don't. Systems MUST have natural feedback loops. That's an area in which I concentrated my study. It is simple really. What I define as "natural economic" systems emulate natural "feedback loops". Economic planning lacks these systems. Which is one of the primary reasons I ultimately fell from Keynesian thought.

The efficiency of systems is fascinating.

While not a book on economic systems I would strongly endorse The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surovieki. It's not a technical book and could easily be read quickly. It deals with mob psychology and certain mathematical phenomena that I've spent decades studying. James has done an excellent job illustrating (much better then I could ever hope to do) an absolutely amazing phenomena which most on this thread would find valuable.

Posted: 3/3/2013 7:43:00 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
" This sums it all up "

Very good piece.

In behavioral and experimental economics we concern ourselves with the root cause. I feel that human behavior can be explained in simple binary variables. (as can most universal phenomena) Complexity is an illusionary construct. If you, or anyone resorts to "...its more complex then that..." you are usually wrong. Individual "good" and individual "bad". What we define as "utility" in economics is fairly simple. Philosophy and proxology, the predecessor to modern economics, has attempted to define and understand these variables on both a micro and macro scale. People strive for that which they "individually" value, they avoid that which they don't. Systems MUST have natural feedback loops. That's an area in which I concentrated my study. It is simple really. What I define as "natural economic" systems emulate natural "feedback loops". Economic planning lacks these systems. Which is one of the primary reasons I ultimately fell from Keynesian thought.

The efficiency of systems is fascinating.

While not a book on economic systems I would strongly endorse The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surovieki. It's not a technical book and could easily be read quickly. It deals with mob psychology and certain mathematical phenomena that I've spent decades studying. James has done an excellent job illustrating (much better then I could ever hope to do) an absolutely amazing phenomena which most on this thread would find valuable.

I did a quick search and I think I have the clif notes version understanding of it.

One thing I want to point out is that the MSM's constant drumming of certain soundbites cause people to only remember what they put out. The interesting thing is that the spoken word seems to stick with people over the long haul - right, wrong, or indifferent - vs print media. The functional dumbing down of people over the last couple generations concerning the literary arts vs the performing arts have delivered us to the point where we are currently.

They have been doing it for years in order to get the people to ask and even beg to have their rights restricted (e.g. gun control). With the advent of cable and satellite tv and the resultant money talk shows we are starting to see a similar trend with ignorant people thinking the government creates wealth by printing more money without a means to secure it's value.

Of course the government is ramming gun control down our throats right now because the ponzi scheme is about to go tits up and those in power know it - they didn't get to the top of the political power food chain by being stupid. Look at the position of many of the top financial guru's on both of these topics. That should make it perfectly clear where we are headed as a country. All because of the constant lies put out by the major 'news' networks.

YMMV

Posted: 3/3/2013 11:58:45 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

" This sums it all up "

Very good piece.

In behavioral and experimental economics we concern ourselves with the root cause. I feel that human behavior can be explained in simple binary variables. (as can most universal phenomena) Complexity is an illusionary construct. If you, or anyone resorts to "...its more complex then that..." you are usually wrong. Individual "good" and individual "bad". What we define as "utility" in economics is fairly simple. Philosophy and proxology, the predecessor to modern economics, has attempted to define and understand these variables on both a micro and macro scale. People strive for that which they "individually" value, they avoid that which they don't. Systems MUST have natural feedback loops. That's an area in which I concentrated my study. It is simple really. What I define as "natural economic" systems emulate natural "feedback loops". Economic planning lacks these systems. Which is one of the primary reasons I ultimately fell from Keynesian thought.

The efficiency of systems is fascinating.

While not a book on economic systems I would strongly endorse The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surovieki. It's not a technical book and could easily be read quickly. It deals with mob psychology and certain mathematical phenomena that I've spent decades studying. James has done an excellent job illustrating (much better then I could ever hope to do) an absolutely amazing phenomena which most on this thread would find valuable.

That is a very interesting book. I read it several years ago shortly after it was published, for a marketing class. But it could be used as evidence against what is thought in this thread as well.

I really don't think the average American (the group) really understands how serious an economic situation we have. Unfortunately we now have a majority-near majority of people that are of such mind that they can't make a responsible decision of what to eat for dinner. Let alone decide who runs the government.

Posted: 3/3/2013 12:22:55 PM EDT

[#24]

I was listening to an investment show this morning. Lot of euphoria about the rebounding economy. Made me think

On one hand last week there were some good numbers regarding new home sales. Look like this week will have good job #'s also. On the other hand they claim inflation is low but I surely know my $ isn't going as far as it used to. I know that is just anecdotal evidence but I doubt I'm the only thinking this. The other thing I've been thinking. This seems like the perfect time for Obama & the Dems to let the economy slide. We have all the hype surrounding the sequester and the Repubs letting the cuts hit. Obama can let the economy go to hell now and blame the Repubs. I'm just not sure what to think anymore. Maybe we're all paranoid and things are really turning around.

Posted: 3/3/2013 3:28:31 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

I was listening to an investment show this morning. Lot of euphoria about the rebounding economy. Made me think

On one hand last week there were some good numbers regarding new home sales. Look like this week will have good job #'s also. On the other hand they claim inflation is low but I surely know my $ isn't going as far as it used to. I know that is just anecdotal evidence but I doubt I'm the only thinking this. The other thing I've been thinking. This seems like the perfect time for Obama & the Dems to let the economy slide. We have all the hype surrounding the sequester and the Repubs letting the cuts hit. Obama can let the economy go to hell now and blame the Repubs. I'm just not sure what to think anymore. Maybe we're all paranoid and things are really turning around.

Lance Armstrong economy. We should put him on the dollar bill.

Posted: 3/3/2013 4:31:20 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

I was listening to an investment show this morning. Lot of euphoria about the rebounding economy. Made me think

On one hand last week there were some good numbers regarding new home sales. Look like this week will have good job #'s also. On the other hand they claim inflation is low but I surely know my $ isn't going as far as it used to. I know that is just anecdotal evidence but I doubt I'm the only thinking this. The other thing I've been thinking. This seems like the perfect time for Obama & the Dems to let the economy slide. We have all the hype surrounding the sequester and the Repubs letting the cuts hit. Obama can let the economy go to hell now and blame the Repubs. I'm just not sure what to think anymore. Maybe we're all paranoid and things are really turning around.

Most Investment 'Specialist' are in Business to find all the Positive news possible for their Client's sake, and, especially, their own; They have to be Optimists.
Inflation has purposely been reported as 'Zero' in order to buy more time for Political Positioning; 2014 will be the Deal Breaker or Maker?

There hasn't been a real cost of living adjustment for 3 years now for Social Security recipients; Ask them if Energy & Food costs are at a 'Zero' inflation rate.
The 'Optimists' are blinded by this Great 'Lie' because they would all be out of business if they don't embrace it.
The Republicans refuse to play the same game as the Democrats and the MSM repeats the Democrats Lies in order for it to become the accepted 'Truth'.
There are No 'Cuts' headed OUR way because if they do the Great 'Lie' would implode again, and this time the FED/Treasury can't 'bankroll' the additional debt; QE can never create Wealth only steal it from WE the People.
'WE' the People are 'Stupid', Paralyzed with Fear, and Blind/Deaf to the facts, so those people are in for a rude awakening betting on the Great 'Lie'.
If you're productive today, be prepared to work harder than ever.

WE should be Paranoid about those always planning using the best case scenarios.

The Numbers don't lie, and nothing has been resolved from 2008; only added to and consolidated towards a Financial Monopoly.
2014 Elections will be Bigger than what just passed; 90% of Congress was reelected in 2012.

With the Republican Establishment still 'Divided', I, sadly, don't see what will stop the Democrats from Regaining control of Both Houses

Like I've said the 'Bad' has already happened, and the Oligarchy has almost completed their Consolidation of OUR System away from OUR Constitution; 'If we can't fix it, we have to Destroy It!'

Just my opinion...

We still are breathing with internet service...Life is Good!

Posted: 3/3/2013 9:22:21 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

I was listening to an investment show this morning. Lot of euphoria about the rebounding economy. Made me think

On one hand last week there were some good numbers regarding new home sales. Look like this week will have good job #'s also. On the other hand they claim inflation is low but I surely know my $ isn't going as far as it used to. I know that is just anecdotal evidence but I doubt I'm the only thinking this. The other thing I've been thinking. This seems like the perfect time for Obama & the Dems to let the economy slide. We have all the hype surrounding the sequester and the Repubs letting the cuts hit. Obama can let the economy go to hell now and blame the Repubs. I'm just not sure what to think anymore. Maybe we're all paranoid and things are really turning around.

Nope.

The economy is finding an equilibrium of sorts. People will continue to work and make money and do what we do. But the standard of living is lower than it would have been otherwise.

Until the next thing that breaks due to fucked up signals in the markets due to the numerous things that are being done. Number 1 being the artificially low cost of money.

Eventually something big will break, that won't be as easy to 'get used to'.

Posted: 3/3/2013 11:50:11 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

<snip>

With the Republican Establishment still 'Divided', I, sadly, don't see what will stop the Democrats from Regaining control of Both Houses

!

The most unkindest cut of all.

Posted: 3/4/2013 5:49:19 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I was listening to an investment show this morning. Lot of euphoria about the rebounding economy. Made me think

On one hand last week there were some good numbers regarding new home sales. Look like this week will have good job #'s also. On the other hand they claim inflation is low but I surely know my $ isn't going as far as it used to. I know that is just anecdotal evidence but I doubt I'm the only thinking this. The other thing I've been thinking. This seems like the perfect time for Obama & the Dems to let the economy slide. We have all the hype surrounding the sequester and the Repubs letting the cuts hit. Obama can let the economy go to hell now and blame the Repubs. I'm just not sure what to think anymore. Maybe we're all paranoid and things are really turning around.

Which investing show?

Posted: 3/4/2013 10:24:12 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I was listening to an investment show this morning. Lot of euphoria about the rebounding economy. Made me think

On one hand last week there were some good numbers regarding new home sales. Look like this week will have good job #'s also. On the other hand they claim inflation is low but I surely know my $ isn't going as far as it used to. I know that is just anecdotal evidence but I doubt I'm the only thinking this. The other thing I've been thinking. This seems like the perfect time for Obama & the Dems to let the economy slide. We have all the hype surrounding the sequester and the Repubs letting the cuts hit. Obama can let the economy go to hell now and blame the Repubs. I'm just not sure what to think anymore. Maybe we're all paranoid and things are really turning around.

I was thinking the same thing - but actually, they don't need to let the economy slide, just lot lie so badly.

Blame the sequestration with job numbers, inflation numbers, housing, and consumer spending numbers worse and then let their MSM cheerleaders run with it. Soon enough, that would be a self-fulfilling prophecy as we watch things get worse.

Posted: 3/4/2013 10:33:05 AM EDT

[#31]

US Oil and Gas Boom Takes Many by Surprise

"U.S. oil production is at its highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17-year low."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100513916

On the surface this statement looks promising doesn't it? Production of oil is at highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17 year low! That's indeed good news! But it is also very revealing.

In 1996 U.S. population was at 265.1 million, today we're at around 315.5 million people, or 50 million more people. If you look at a chart of world oil demand what does it tell you?

The U.S., Europe, and Japan are just more energy efficient then the rest of the world? I'm sure some of it comes through better efficiency, and I know this is how politicians will spin it. But it won't be the truth.

What do you think the data shows?

(This is a very revealing piece of economic data.)

Posted: 3/4/2013 10:39:12 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

US Oil and Gas Boom Takes Many by Surprise

"U.S. oil production is at its highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17-year low."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100513916

On the surface this statement looks promising doesn't it? Production of oil is at highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17 year low!

In 1996 U.S. population was at 265.1 million, today we're at around 315.5 million people, or 50 million more people. If you look at a chart of world oil demand what does it tell you?

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4f1f078669beddc23e000054/chart-of-the-day-moneygame-oil-demand-old-world-vs-new-world.jpg

The U.S., Europe, and Japan are just more energy efficient then the rest of the world? I'm sure some of it comes through better efficiency, and I know this is how politicians will spin it. But it won't be the truth.

What do you think the data shows?

This is a very revealing piece of economic data.

What I'm wondering is why gas is around $4 a gallon..................

Posted: 3/4/2013 10:44:06 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

US Oil and Gas Boom Takes Many by Surprise

"U.S. oil production is at its highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17-year low."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100513916

On the surface this statement looks promising doesn't it? Production of oil is at highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17 year low!

In 1996 U.S. population was at 265.1 million, today we're at around 315.5 million people, or 50 million more people. If you look at a chart of world oil demand what does it tell you?

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4f1f078669beddc23e000054/chart-of-the-day-moneygame-oil-demand-old-world-vs-new-world.jpg

The U.S., Europe, and Japan are just more energy efficient then the rest of the world? I'm sure some of it comes through better efficiency, and I know this is how politicians will spin it. But it won't be the truth.

What do you think the data shows?

This is a very revealing piece of economic data.

What I'm wondering is why gas is around $4 a gallon..................

That's a very good observation. The answer is "total" world demand for oil isn't declining, it's rising. There's really only ONE global oil market.

What else does your observation and the data tell you?

Posted: 3/4/2013 10:57:13 AM EDT

[#34]

The perfect way to understand how Communists work.

They have zero transparency.

They will never defend Individual Freedoms.

They are creating 'Wealth' using Slave Labor, and buying Real Assets on every Continent, unchecked, using a Free-Market they would never adopt for their own Country.
China's Modern 'Warfare' Strategy [My Opinion]:

Buy Global Debt to fuel a Global 'Capitalistic' Bubbles;

Leaving Global Economies Bankrupt;

Forcing Nations to abandon Free-Market Capitalism;

Leading to eventual Collapse;

While the Commies create Real Wealth for themselves.

China’s $3.3 Trillion FX Reserves Could Buy All World’s Gold Twice

How could a Communist Nation generate such 'Strength'/'Wealth' this quickly by not renouncing their own 'Evil' Empire?

Why are WE being led to believe Red China is the future?

Propaganda?

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely
mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the
director of the opponent's fate."

"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."

-Sun Tzu-

What happens when the Commies cry foul when the 'Freedom-Loving Capitalists' default?

The Historic Communist Oppressors playing the 'Victim Card'

WE the 'Stupid' deserve what WE get...

Posted: 3/4/2013 11:09:23 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

US Oil and Gas Boom Takes Many by Surprise

"U.S. oil production is at its highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17-year low."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100513916

On the surface this statement looks promising doesn't it? Production of oil is at highest level in 20 years, while at the same time U.S. oil demand is at a 17 year low!

In 1996 U.S. population was at 265.1 million, today we're at around 315.5 million people, or 50 million more people. If you look at a chart of world oil demand what does it tell you?

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4f1f078669beddc23e000054/chart-of-the-day-moneygame-oil-demand-old-world-vs-new-world.jpg

The U.S., Europe, and Japan are just more energy efficient then the rest of the world? I'm sure some of it comes through better efficiency, and I know this is how politicians will spin it. But it won't be the truth.

What do you think the data shows?

This is a very revealing piece of economic data.

What I'm wondering is why gas is around $4 a gallon..................

That's a very good observation. The answer is "total" world demand for oil isn't declining, it's rising. There's really only ONE global oil market.

What else does your observation and the data tell you?

I would argue OUR Weak Dollar has more to do with Pricing than WE realize.

Follow the Dollar Index, as the index rises, commodity prices fall.

Starting from the year 2000:

What do you think Oil prices have done?

In my opinion, Supply & Demand has nothing to do with pricing, only speculation & 'broken promises'

Posted: 3/4/2013 11:09:39 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

What do you think the data shows?

Oil use is a very good indicator of economic activity, and a difficult stat to hide/fudge.

Posted: 3/4/2013 11:29:19 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
The perfect way to understand how Communists work.

They have zero transparency.

They will never defend Individual Freedoms.

They are creating 'Wealth' using Slave Labor, and buying Real Assets on every Continent, unchecked, using a Free-Market they would never adopt for their own Country.
China's Modern 'Warfare' Strategy [My Opinion]:

Buy Global Debt to fuel a Global 'Capitalistic' Bubbles;

Leaving Global Economies Bankrupt;

Forcing Nations to abandon Free-Market Capitalism;

Leading to eventual Collapse;

While the Commies create Real Wealth for themselves.

China’s $3.3 Trillion FX Reserves Could Buy All World’s Gold Twice

How could a Communist Nation generate such 'Strength'/'Wealth' this quickly by not renouncing their own 'Evil' Empire?

Why are WE being led to believe they will lead the way?

Propaganda?

•Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.
•The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
-Sun Tzu-

What happens when the Commies cry foul when the 'Freedom-Loving Capitalists' default?

The Historic Communist Oppressors playing the 'Victim Card'

WE the 'Stupid' deserve what WE get...

Very interesting observation.

There is only one problem. American's perception of China. The Chinese are working a long-term plan but it's not what you think. They are liberalizing their society, have moved towards greater privatization since reforms began in 1978. They have a fairly large and vibrant private sector. The Chinese leadership has stated that it believes free-markets bring greater "harmony " to a society, "harmony" is a very important philosophical goal of their culture. Most westerners don't understand this. We think in terms of good vs bad, black vs white, light vs darkness. They don't. They're moving towards more individual freedom while we are working towards more collectivism. We have an "American" image of them, that is not entirely correct.

Their government is smaller then our government. Per capita they have about 1/3 the incarceration rate that we have, in the land of the free (?) I'm not saying that their society is free, but neither is our society. If you consider the trajectory of both societies their's is at least pointed in the right direction. Statist in OUR government want them to be the big bad CHICOM, but who benefits the most from this image? Who ALWAYS benefits from fear?

Yes, the Chinese have a tremendous U.S. dollar currency reserve. This is due in part to the huge trade imbalance between our countries. If YOU had a large pool of U.S. dollars what would you do, given the current monetary policy of the U.S.? Would you sit on it, hopping the U.S. dollar appreciates in value due to sound monetary and fiscal policy?

What would be in your best interest to do with those dollars? The Chinese are no different. If anything they've shown tremendous restraint. Restraint because they actually want us to remain good customers. It's in their selfish best interest for our economy to improve.

I have friends all over Asia. From Ho Chi Minh city, to Hong Kong, and Beijing. They are perplexed why our media seems to indicate that we fear China, or anyone for that matter. Our military is the largest the world has ever seen. We are like the elephant afraid of mice. Most in Asia view warfare for what it is, the destruction of capitol, and a waste of both life and money. Which it is. Warfare is not desirable. That's the primary philosophical take-away most Americans miss getting from Sun Tzu. Through our "American Eyes" its all about warfare tactics, which is absolutely part of it, but the deeper meaning is something else entirely. I think Americans should read, and try to understand the Tao te Ching before tackling Sun Tzu. Without a firm basis in understanding their cultural philosophy Sun Tzu is easily misunderstood by our Western minds.

Our fear makes everyone nervous. It makes US dangerous. Fear is our greatest weakness. Americans need to stop being afraid. It is causing us to turn more and more to government, and statism is the greatest threat to our individual freedom, happiness, and yes...harmony.

Posted: 3/4/2013 11:30:55 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What do you think the data shows?

Oil use is a very good indicator of economic activity, and a difficult stat to hide/fudge.

Correct

Another interesting observation is that almost nowhere is this being covered by the mainstream financial media. No one is talking about it. Just the positive spin that our demand is at 17 year lows and production is at 20 year highs. The price of gas is up because global demand is still increasing, despite decreasing demand in the U.S., western Europe, and Japan. The cross occurred between 2005 - 2007. The financial crisis came into full bloom (became obvious) in 2008...

It's being spun as "GREAT NEWS", look how efficient we've become. But that's not entirely true. Yes, we've become somewhat more conservative with oil consumption, but that's not the whole picture.

Posted: 3/4/2013 12:48:37 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Very interesting observation.

There is only one problem. American's perception of China. The Chinese are working a long-term plan but it's not what you think. They are liberalizing their society, have moved towards greater privatization since reforms began in 1978. They have a fairly large and vibrant private sector. The Chinese leadership has stated that it believes free-markets bring greater "harmony " to a society, "harmony" is a very important philosophical goal of their culture. Most westerners don't understand this. We think in terms of good vs bad, black vs white, light vs darkness. They don't. They're moving towards more individual freedom while we are working towards more collectivism. We have an "American" image of them, that is not entirely correct.

Their government is smaller then our government. Per capita they have about 1/3 the incarceration rate that we have, in the land of the free (?) I'm not saying that their society is free, but neither is our society. If you consider the trajectory of both societies their's is at least pointed in the right direction. Statist in OUR government want them to be the big bad CHICOM, but who benefits the most from this image? Who ALWAYS benefits from fear?

Yes, the Chinese have a tremendous U.S. dollar currency reserve. This is due to the huge trade imbalance between our country. If YOU had a large pool of U.S. dollars what would you do, given the current monetary policy of the U.S.? Would you sit on it, hopping the U.S. dollar appreciates in value due to sound monetary and fiscal policy?

What would be in your best interest to do with those dollars? The Chinese are no different. If anything they've shown tremendous restraint. Restraint because they actually want us to remain good customers. It's in their selfish best interest for our economy to improve.

I have friends all over Asia. From Ho Chi Minh city, to Hong Kong, and Beijing. They are perplexed why our media seems to indicate that we fear China, or anyone for that matter. Our military is the largest the world has ever seen. We are like the elephant afraid of mice. Most in Asia view warfare for what it is, the destruction of capitol, and a waste of both life and money. Which it is. Warfare is not desirable. That's the primary philosophical take-away most Americans miss getting from Sun Tzu. Through our "American Eyes" its all about warfare tactics, which is absolutely part of it, but the deeper meaning is something else entirely. I think Americans should read, and try to understand the Tao te Ching before tackling Sun Tzu. Without a firm basis in understanding their cultural philosophy Sun Tzu is easily misunderstood by our Western minds.

Our fear makes everyone nervous. It makes US dangerous. Fear is our greatest weakness. Americans need to stop being afraid. It is causing us to turn more and more to government, and statism is the greatest threat to our individual freedom, happiness, and yes...harmony.

I agree about Fear blinding US, unfortunately, I'm to Stupid to fall for their scare tactics, but I'm extremely Pissed

The days of Wars being won by a 'Body-count' ended long ago.

History will define Globalization as 'Economic Suicide'.

WWII led to OUR Manufacturing boom, then WE got Lazy/Spoiled, and Handed that Power to the Commies; Communism didn't end because of a cute sound bite.
Realizing Power Corrupts & watching Global Governments attempt to Consolidate their Powers, Why would WE believe Communist China has decided to 'Voluntarily' give away the Power they find themselves defending?
With 1.3+ Billion people, why wouldn't they try to spend their 'Wealth' towards All Chinese citizens & lead their own Boom?

Why do they need US?

Communists are the Ultimate Protectionists.

They build the illusion of a Great Society, while hiding the poverty & desperate; more than half of their population & I'm being generous.

There's a level of Poverty, Pollution & Corruption there that seems to never be acknowledged or reported on.

I'm not saying WE are currently better, well, seriously, WE are...
I just can't believe the Chinese Oligarchs are somehow willing to spend money to help anyone other than themselves; If anything they are Training foreign Leaders their 'Art of War'.
It takes generations to master America's 'Art of Consumption'

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, personally, I can't believe they are becoming the 'Old' US

eta

I apologize to all for acting like a 'know-it-all', that's not my intent, I find myself not trusting any stats because they are all manipulated & based on Lies, in my opinion.

eta2

1.3+ Billion People and they depict this as some 'milestone'

China to surpass USA as top luxury car market...

Posted: 3/4/2013 2:27:57 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

<snip>
eta

I apologize to all for acting like a 'know-it-all', that's not my intent, I find myself not trusting any stats because they are all manipulated & based on Lies, in my opinion.
eta2

1.3+ Billion People and they depict this as some 'milestone'

China to surpass USA as top luxury car market...

1st edit: No, you don't come across as a "know it all". I suppose anyone who posts an opinion might be accused of that by those who don't like to take a positions on any issue. "Stand for something, or you stand for nothing...." Besides I learn more from debate then agreement.

2nd edit: This is a milestone. If you are a car manufacturer you really don't care what percentage of a population buys your cars, you only care about the number of units you sell. The market which buys the highest number of units is the one you cater to. It is also a milestone, when I can remember clearly China traffic looked more like a wild bicycle race instead of this....

I am amazed at how fast they are moving forward.

One last note. I thought it was an interesting line from the movie Social Network, "There are more geniuses in China then there are people in the United States". I realize its a controversial statement at best (arguments supporting it and opposing it can be made), but it does give one pause to think...

What might they accomplish with more freedom?

Posted: 3/4/2013 3:03:45 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

<snip>

eta

I apologize to all for acting like a 'know-it-all', that's not my intent, I find myself not trusting any stats because they are all manipulated & based on Lies, in my opinion.

eta2

1.3+ Billion People and they depict this as some 'milestone'

China to surpass USA as top luxury car market...

1st edit: No, you don't come across as a "know it all". I suppose anyone who posts an opinion might be accused of that by those who don't like to take a positions on any issue. "Stand for something, or you stand for nothing...." Besides I learn more from debate then agreement.

2nd edit: This is a milestone. If you are a car manufacturer you really don't care what percentage of a population buys your cars, you only care about the number of units you sell. The market which buys the highest number of units is the one you cater to. It is also a milestone, when I can remember clearly China traffic looked more like a wild bicycle race instead of this....

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/wp-content/uploads/mt-old/_photos_uncategorized_20070311_bjroads-tm.jpg

I am amazed at how fast they are moving forward.

One last note. I thought it was an interesting line from the movie Social Network, "There are more geniuses in China then there are people in the United States". I realize its a controversial statement at best (arguments supporting it and opposing it can be made), but it does give one pause to think...

What might they accomplish with more freedom?

That's the Trillion Dollar Question...Government Forced 'Freedom' or Free-will?

I agree, their growth appears unimaginable, and probably because it isn't real.

When WE have everything, it's easy to become Lazy & 'Stupid'.

WE lack Passion and Confidence in ourselves because Life has become 'to easy'.

I think WE will find OUR Genius again, once WE begin 'Hurting' for what WE earn, instead of expecting it; WE have to hit rock bottom to learn

I just can't believe Communism can ever accomplish anything to help it's Citizenry, only use them to push their Agenda by limiting Individual Freedoms

Kind of what WE are going through in reverse...Government Control or 'Anarchy'

Posted: 3/4/2013 3:31:58 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

<snip>

eta

I apologize to all for acting like a 'know-it-all', that's not my intent, I find myself not trusting any stats because they are all manipulated & based on Lies, in my opinion.

eta2

1.3+ Billion People and they depict this as some 'milestone'

China to surpass USA as top luxury car market...

1st edit: No, you don't come across as a "know it all". I suppose anyone who posts an opinion might be accused of that by those who don't like to take a positions on any issue. "Stand for something, or you stand for nothing...." Besides I learn more from debate then agreement.

2nd edit: This is a milestone. If you are a car manufacturer you really don't care what percentage of a population buys your cars, you only care about the number of units you sell. The market which buys the highest number of units is the one you cater to. It is also a milestone, when I can remember clearly China traffic looked more like a wild bicycle race instead of this....

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/wp-content/uploads/mt-old/_photos_uncategorized_20070311_bjroads-tm.jpg

I am amazed at how fast they are moving forward.

One last note. I thought it was an interesting line from the movie Social Network, "There are more geniuses in China then there are people in the United States". I realize its a controversial statement at best (arguments supporting it and opposing it can be made), but it does give one pause to think...

What might they accomplish with more freedom?

That's the Trillion Dollar Question...Government Forced 'Freedom' or Free-will?

I agree, their growth appears unimaginable, and probably because it isn't real.

When WE have everything, it's easy to become Lazy & 'Stupid'.

WE lack Passion and Confidence in ourselves because Life has become 'to easy'.

I think WE will find OUR Genius again, once WE begin 'Hurting' for what WE earn, instead of expecting it; WE have to hit rock bottom to learn

I just can't believe Communism can ever accomplish anything to help it's Citizenry, only use them to push their Agenda by limiting Individual Freedoms

Kind of what WE are going through in reverse...Government Control or 'Anarchy'

Communism had nothing to do with their recent success. They've admitted that. We imagine that there is some mythical line between "communism" and "capitalism". The other guy is "communist" and we are not. There is no mythical line. There is only MORE government or LESS government central planning. Don't get me wrong, the Chinese still have tremendous problems with central planning. But so do we. We have a tremendous amount of government economic central planning in our society.

Right now over half of the households in America receive some sort of direct financial benefit from government. That's a problem. Our economic central planners are killing the coal industry, regulating the food grown on farms, directing the medicine which can be sold and marketed, determining the price for health care, regulating the kind of car you can buy, the kind of house you can live in, the kind food and in some cases the price of that food you eat. There is tremendous risk for a society that is blinded to its own "collectivism".

China is no more a pure communist state than we are a pure free-market state.

PS: Anarchy isn't as evil as people have been indoctrinated to believe. Most people still have quite a bit of "anarchy" in their daily lives. Those slices of heaven where there is absolutely NO government. I think you'll admit those are the BEST parts of your life. Government should be limited to protecting INDIVIDUAL freedom. That's the only thing it does well.

Posted: 3/4/2013 3:40:03 PM EDT

[#43]

MAN! I thought i was depressed concerning the state our nation before reading this thread. After reading all 56 pages I feel even worse. Man you would think someone making decisions for our country would want them to benefit our society in any way. I am disgusted by the greed, lies, and overall shady way our politician do business. sometimes makes it hard to be proud of your great country. I just have to remember what our country stands for, what the people stand for (well most of them). You dont have to believe in our government to believe in our country! Thanks for a great read guys, I learn something new everytime I venture in these threads.

Posted: 3/4/2013 4:11:24 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Communism had nothing to do with their recent success. They've admitted that. We imagine that there is some mythical line between "communism" and "capitalism". The other guy is "communist" and we are not. There is no mythical line. There is only MORE government or LESS government central planning. Don't get me wrong, the Chinese still have tremendous problems with central planning. But so do we. We have a tremendous amount of government economic central planning in our society.

That's what WE shouldn't trust.

They know exactly what they are doing, so when OUR Politicians discuss 'Special Interest', look no further than China; Why is their slave labor acceptable?

Right now over half of the households in America receive some sort of direct financial benefit from government. That's a problem. Our economic central planners are killing the coal industry, regulating the food grown on farms, directing the medicine which can be sold and marketed, determining the price for health care, regulating the kind of car you can buy, the kind of house you can live in, the kind food and in some cases the price of that food you eat. There is tremendous risk for a society that is blinded to its own "collectivism".

China is no more a pure communist state than we are a pure free-market state.

WE still have OUR Constitution during these questionable times.

PS: Anarchy isn't as evil as people have been indoctrinated to believe. Most people still have quite a bit of "anarchy" in their daily lives. Those slices of heaven where there is absolutely NO government. I think you'll admit those are the BEST parts of your life. Government should be limited to protecting INDIVIDUAL freedom. That's the only thing it does well.

I agree, and that's what the Great 'Lie' is all about...Governments staying Relevant.

Q we agree more than it would appear...good discussion.
More Government Regs = Black Markets = Low Grade Anarchy

WE either exercise OUR Right to enforce Term-Limits, by voting Most Incumbents Out of Congress in 2014, or WE deserve the Government Controls that will be Force upon US, and I'm not confusing America for China

Any smart Businessman would Fire an employee for Gross Incompetence, Why do 'WE' continue to give Politicians a break?

Posted: 3/4/2013 4:38:45 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Any smart Business man would Fire an employee for Gross Incompetence, Why do 'WE' continue to give Politicians a break?

Every time I vote I'm trying to fire the incumbent but the SOBs don't get fired.
I must be doing it wrong.

Posted: 3/4/2013 4:56:27 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Any smart Business man would Fire an employee for Gross Incompetence, Why do 'WE' continue to give Politicians a break?

Every time I vote I'm trying to fire the incumbent but the SOBs don't get fired.

I must be doing it wrong.

I think you're a Genius, don't stop that strategy, and rally everyone you can to join you

'WE' keep following the Establishments message of Failure...

'VOTE ALL Incumbents OUT!!!' needs to be the Rallying cry.

Party affiliation has become irrelevant. WE need to vote 90% of Congress OUT OF OFFICE; That's what Term Limits Look like.

That's the message, not who's right or wrong because they have all Failed Miserably, but Remove any official who's been around for over 2-3 terms

They are the Problem, never leading US to success, so Vote for 'Fresh meat'

Posted: 3/4/2013 5:08:39 PM EDT

[#47]

The Chinese economic miracle, what could possibly go wrong with central planning?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50142079n

Posted: 3/4/2013 5:12:02 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

<snip>

eta
I apologize to all for acting like a 'know-it-all', that's not my intent, I find myself not trusting any stats because they are all manipulated & based on Lies, in my opinion.

eta2
1.3+ Billion People and they depict this as some 'milestone'

China to surpass USA as top luxury car market...

1st edit: No, you don't come across as a "know it all". I suppose anyone who posts an opinion might be accused of that by those who don't like to take a positions on any issue. "Stand for something, or you stand for nothing...." Besides I learn more from debate then agreement.

2nd edit: This is a milestone. If you are a car manufacturer you really don't care what percentage of a population buys your cars, you only care about the number of units you sell. The market which buys the highest number of units is the one you cater to. It is also a milestone, when I can remember clearly China traffic looked more like a wild bicycle race instead of this....

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/wp-content/uploads/mt-old/_photos_uncategorized_20070311_bjroads-tm.jpg

I am amazed at how fast they are moving forward.

One last note. I thought it was an interesting line from the movie Social Network, "There are more geniuses in China then there are people in the United States". I realize its a controversial statement at best (arguments supporting it and opposing it can be made), but it does give one pause to think...

What might they accomplish with more freedom?

That's the Trillion Dollar Question...Government Forced 'Freedom' or Free-will?
I agree, their growth appears unimaginable, and probably because it isn't real.

When WE have everything, it's easy to become Lazy & 'Stupid'.
WE lack Passion and Confidence in ourselves because Life has become 'to easy'.
I think WE will find OUR Genius again, once WE begin 'Hurting' for what WE earn, instead of expecting it; WE have to hit rock bottom to learn

I just can't believe Communism can ever accomplish anything to help it's Citizenry, only use them to push their Agenda by limiting Individual Freedoms

Kind of what WE are going through in reverse...Government Control or 'Anarchy'

Communism had nothing to do with their recent success. They've admitted that. We imagine that there is some mythical line between "communism" and "capitalism". The other guy is "communist" and we are not. There is no mythical line. There is only MORE government or LESS government central planning. Don't get me wrong, the Chinese still have tremendous problems with central planning. But so do we. We have a tremendous amount of government economic central planning in our society.

Right now over half of the households in America receive some sort of direct financial benefit from government. That's a problem. Our economic central planners are killing the coal industry, regulating the food grown on farms, directing the medicine which can be sold and marketed, determining the price for health care, regulating the kind of car you can buy, the kind of house you can live in, the kind food and in some cases the price of that food you eat. There is tremendous risk for a society that is blinded to its own "collectivism".

China is no more a pure communist state than we are a pure free-market state.

PS: Anarchy isn't as evil as people have been indoctrinated to believe. Most people still have quite a bit of "anarchy" in their daily lives. Those slices of heaven where there is absolutely NO government. I think you'll admit those are the BEST parts of your life. Government should be limited to protecting INDIVIDUAL freedom. That's the only thing it does well.