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Posted: 8/26/2013 9:56:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Posted here and in the Industry Thread...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. Troy Industries is a completely isolated company from Troy Asymmetric. Different leadership, different contacts, as far as I was told autonomous from each other. Yes, they can exert pressure on each other and I would guess they could cut ties from each other if needed. I'm assuming that the quick response last week proved that there is a sufficient amount of pressure on the relationship afforded to each other. This doesn't mean that Steve or anyone else inside Troy Ind can make business decisions for the Asymmetric business from what I was told. So at this time Troy Ind is unhappy with the current situation, not unlike people here, and that they are waiting for it to shake out at higher levels. Before I ever brought up that this community would distance itself from a company acting in this manner, they made it exceedingly clear that Troy Industries has nothing to do with this and it's a black eye on them. It was made clear that this mess has impacted their employee moral. Everyone here has to keep in mind that companies often forge relationships like this to benefit both entities and that corporate structures can be confusing, regardless of naming. It's a potential nightmare when a situation like this one occurs and you are tied by name and very little else. The employees of Troy Ind I have had the pleasure of meeting are shooters and patriots cut from the same cloth as us and it's very clear to see this trouble them too. I'm not sure what to expect next, or when we will hear more, but I do feel they are making efforts internally and something more will happen. I am a fan of voting with your dollars and voicing your opinion. I know people at Troy can't take the time to talk to everyone as they did with me, so all I ask is that you keep the above in mind when forming your decisions. Also remember we are not privy to all the inside information on what is taking place. If I feel Troy Industries has misled us on this and is responsible for the hiring, we will take appropriate action, but I have faith in Steve and everyone there to do what is right. They have proven time and time again that they will do what is right and they have never given us a reason to doubt them. GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 9:56:52 AM EDT
[#2]
I wonder, for every JBT we discover at these companies, how many others are we missing that are teaching these Tactical Tom classes?
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Posted: 8/26/2013 9:57:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Since we know what it takes to be a Troy Asymmetric trainer, how many baby murders did it take Mr. Royal to get where he was?! Although he's probably just an attorney or something. ETA: But yea, they're the same company for all intents and purposes. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 9:59:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted here and in the Industry Thread... GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted here and in the Industry Thread... Quoted:
I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. Troy Industries is a completely isolated company from Troy Asymmetric. Different leadership, different contacts, as far as I was told autonomous from each other. Yes, they can exert pressure on each other and I would guess they could cut ties from each other if needed. I'm assuming that the quick response last week proved that there is a sufficient amount of pressure on the relationship afforded to each other. This doesn't mean that Steve or anyone else inside Troy Ind can make business decisions for the Asymmetric business from what I was told. So at this time Troy Ind is unhappy with the current situation, not unlike people here, and that they are waiting for it to shake out at higher levels. Before I ever brought up that this community would distance itself from a company acting in this manner, they made it exceedingly clear that Troy Industries has nothing to do with this and it's a black eye on them. It was made clear that this mess has impacted their employee moral. Everyone here has to keep in mind that companies often forge relationships like this to benefit both entities and that corporate structures can be confusing, regardless of naming. It's a potential nightmare when a situation like this one occurs and you are tied by name and very little else. The employees of Troy Ind I have had the pleasure of meeting are shooters and patriots cut from the same cloth as us and it's very clear to see this trouble them too. I'm not sure what to expect next, or when we will hear more, but I do feel they are making efforts internally and something more will happen. I am a fan of voting with your dollars and voicing your opinion. I know people at Troy can't take the time to talk to everyone as they did with me, so all I ask is that you keep the above in mind when forming your decisions. Also remember we are not privy to all the inside information on what is taking place. If I feel Troy Industries has misled us on this and is responsible for the hiring, we will take appropriate action, but I have faith in Steve and everyone there to do what is right. They have proven time and time again that they will do what is right and they have never given us a reason to doubt them. GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. That'll leave a mark. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 9:59:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder, for every JBT we discover at these companies, how many others are we missing that are teaching these Tactical Tom classes? Considering they immediately took down the roster, who knows? |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:00:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since we know what it takes to be a Troy Asymmetric trainer, how many baby murders did it take Mr. Royal to get where he was?! Although he's probably just an attorney or something. ETA: But yea, they're the same company for all intents and purposes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Since we know what it takes to be a Troy Asymmetric trainer, how many baby murders did it take Mr. Royal to get where he was?! Although he's probably just an attorney or something. ETA: But yea, they're the same company for all intents and purposes. It appears that Frederick D. Royal is the attorney who setup the LLC for Mr. Stephen P. Troy, not an instructor, director, owner, or otherwise engaged in Troy Asymmetric activities. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:01:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since we know what it takes to be a Troy Asymmetric trainer, how many baby murders did it take Mr. Royal to get where he was?! Although he's probably just an attorney or something. ETA: But yea, they're the same company for all intents and purposes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Since we know what it takes to be a Troy Asymmetric trainer, how many baby murders did it take Mr. Royal to get where he was?! Although he's probably just an attorney or something. ETA: But yea, they're the same company for all intents and purposes. I'm not going to go that far, especially naming names of people who might be good guys, but there's definitely a shadow cast over that whole program as a result. There's no proof Mr. Royal is anything but a good guy. Unlike our HRT overlords, I'm going to go with innocent until proven guilty, and I hope everyone else here does the same. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:01:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It appears that Frederick D. Royal is the attorney who setup the LLC for Mr. Stephen P. Troy, not an instructor, director, owner, or otherwise engaged in Troy Asymmetric activities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Since we know what it takes to be a Troy Asymmetric trainer, how many baby murders did it take Mr. Royal to get where he was?! Although he's probably just an attorney or something. ETA: But yea, they're the same company for all intents and purposes. It appears that Frederick D. Royal is the attorney who setup the LLC for Mr. Stephen P. Troy, not an instructor, director, owner, or otherwise engaged in Troy Asymmetric activities. So he's in the same position as Troy Industries! 
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:01:48 AM EDT
[#9]
man this is fucked up
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:03:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posted here and in the Industry Thread... GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Quote HistoryQuoted: Posted here and in the Industry Thread... Quoted: I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. Troy Industries is a completely isolated company from Troy Asymmetric. Different leadership, different contacts, as far as I was told autonomous from each other. Yes, they can exert pressure on each other and I would guess they could cut ties from each other if needed. I'm assuming that the quick response last week proved that there is a sufficient amount of pressure on the relationship afforded to each other. This doesn't mean that Steve or anyone else inside Troy Ind can make business decisions for the Asymmetric business from what I was told. So at this time Troy Ind is unhappy with the current situation, not unlike people here, and that they are waiting for it to shake out at higher levels. Before I ever brought up that this community would distance itself from a company acting in this manner, they made it exceedingly clear that Troy Industries has nothing to do with this and it's a black eye on them. It was made clear that this mess has impacted their employee moral. Everyone here has to keep in mind that companies often forge relationships like this to benefit both entities and that corporate structures can be confusing, regardless of naming. It's a potential nightmare when a situation like this one occurs and you are tied by name and very little else. The employees of Troy Ind I have had the pleasure of meeting are shooters and patriots cut from the same cloth as us and it's very clear to see this trouble them too. I'm not sure what to expect next, or when we will hear more, but I do feel they are making efforts internally and something more will happen. I am a fan of voting with your dollars and voicing your opinion. I know people at Troy can't take the time to talk to everyone as they did with me, so all I ask is that you keep the above in mind when forming your decisions. Also remember we are not privy to all the inside information on what is taking place. If I feel Troy Industries has misled us on this and is responsible for the hiring, we will take appropriate action, but I have faith in Steve and everyone there to do what is right. They have proven time and time again that they will do what is right and they have never given us a reason to doubt them. GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Doh!  |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:04:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know what was posted on Friday and that Steve's statement backs Monroe as being misquoted and misrepresented. I'm not a Troy employee nor privy to anything other than answers to questions I ask. I'm also subject to the information out there and doing what I can to add to it. I know this mess has definitely been felt by them internally and I'm not one to stifle an important discussion like this until it's resolved. My hope is for a proper resolution, but that includes giving them time and space to handle their business and to see what happens. I've stated it before: why can troy distance themselves from troy ass.(with the same owner), but they refuse to do business with field and stream(dick's) even though it's set up the exact same way? |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:04:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know what was posted on Friday and that Steve's statement backs Monroe as being misquoted and misrepresented. I'm not a Troy employee nor privy to anything other than answers to questions I ask. I'm also subject to the information out there and doing what I can to add to it. I know this mess has definitely been felt by them internally and I'm not one to stifle an important discussion like this until it's resolved. My hope is for a proper resolution, but that includes giving them time and space to handle their business and to see what happens. Thanks for the update. At least we can get a sense of what the lower-level employees are feeling. Let's hope higher-ups feel and start acting the same. And thanks for not stifling the discussion. I believe in giving them some time, but there's a limit on that and I am not about to let this discussion die until a favorable and reasonable result is reached. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:07:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. snip... I appreciate what you're saying GB, and I'm sure that the working folks at Troy are the salt of the earth, but that is pretty much BS. The fact remains that the people at the top of the pyramid decided to come out and LIE about one of their employees, "separate entities" or not, in the hopes of sweeping this under the rug. When that didn't work, they sold you a bill of goods to try and put out our fire, but I say fuck that! They also called us out because he thinks we don't or haven't "worn the uniform"  Because after almost 15 years of ground conflicts, there is no way there are veterans buying your products or know what happens in a fluid situation.
Fuck you, Steve Troy!! 
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:07:39 AM EDT
[#14]
GB, we're appreciative that you took the time to try and get a response out of Troy, but based on what they told you, I hope you were rolling your eyes during the whole conversation.
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:07:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted here and in the Industry Thread... GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted here and in the Industry Thread... Quoted:
I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. Troy Industries is a completely isolated company from Troy Asymmetric. Different leadership, different contacts, as far as I was told autonomous from each other. Yes, they can exert pressure on each other and I would guess they could cut ties from each other if needed. I'm assuming that the quick response last week proved that there is a sufficient amount of pressure on the relationship afforded to each other. This doesn't mean that Steve or anyone else inside Troy Ind can make business decisions for the Asymmetric business from what I was told. So at this time Troy Ind is unhappy with the current situation, not unlike people here, and that they are waiting for it to shake out at higher levels. Before I ever brought up that this community would distance itself from a company acting in this manner, they made it exceedingly clear that Troy Industries has nothing to do with this and it's a black eye on them. It was made clear that this mess has impacted their employee moral. Everyone here has to keep in mind that companies often forge relationships like this to benefit both entities and that corporate structures can be confusing, regardless of naming. It's a potential nightmare when a situation like this one occurs and you are tied by name and very little else. The employees of Troy Ind I have had the pleasure of meeting are shooters and patriots cut from the same cloth as us and it's very clear to see this trouble them too. I'm not sure what to expect next, or when we will hear more, but I do feel they are making efforts internally and something more will happen. I am a fan of voting with your dollars and voicing your opinion. I know people at Troy can't take the time to talk to everyone as they did with me, so all I ask is that you keep the above in mind when forming your decisions. Also remember we are not privy to all the inside information on what is taking place. If I feel Troy Industries has misled us on this and is responsible for the hiring, we will take appropriate action, but I have faith in Steve and everyone there to do what is right. They have proven time and time again that they will do what is right and they have never given us a reason to doubt them. GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Shit just got real! |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:08:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the update. At least we can get a sense of what the lower-level employees are feeling. Let's hope higher-ups feel and start acting the same. And thanks for not stifling the discussion. I believe in giving them some time, but there's a limit on that and I am not about to let this discussion die until a favorable and reasonable result is reached. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know what was posted on Friday and that Steve's statement backs Monroe as being misquoted and misrepresented. I'm not a Troy employee nor privy to anything other than answers to questions I ask. I'm also subject to the information out there and doing what I can to add to it. I know this mess has definitely been felt by them internally and I'm not one to stifle an important discussion like this until it's resolved. My hope is for a proper resolution, but that includes giving them time and space to handle their business and to see what happens. Thanks for the update. At least we can get a sense of what the lower-level employees are feeling. Let's hope higher-ups feel and start acting the same. And thanks for not stifling the discussion. I believe in giving them some time, but there's a limit on that and I am not about to let this discussion die until a favorable and reasonable result is reached. Us: "Troy! You hired a shit bag, J-Fled!" Troy: "Oh geez, you're right. Our bad, we fucking fired his lame ass!" Us: "Sweet, but you also hired this other shit bag, Dale." Troy: "Oh, he's not a shitbag. He's awesome and I agree with what he did." Us: "No he isn't!" Troy: "Oh... well sorry, separate companies. Can't do anything about it!" |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Go read the documents filed by Troy with the State of Massachusetts yourself. They are only a page or two long each... decide how separate these companies really are.
Annual Report - Troy Industries http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1050/201322621700_1.pdf Annual Report - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1186/201322638870_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Defense http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1474/201268941540_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1564/201268955600_1.pdf |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:10:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted here and in the Industry Thread... GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posted here and in the Industry Thread... Quoted:
I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. Troy Industries is a completely isolated company from Troy Asymmetric. Different leadership, different contacts, as far as I was told autonomous from each other. Yes, they can exert pressure on each other and I would guess they could cut ties from each other if needed. I'm assuming that the quick response last week proved that there is a sufficient amount of pressure on the relationship afforded to each other. This doesn't mean that Steve or anyone else inside Troy Ind can make business decisions for the Asymmetric business from what I was told. So at this time Troy Ind is unhappy with the current situation, not unlike people here, and that they are waiting for it to shake out at higher levels. Before I ever brought up that this community would distance itself from a company acting in this manner, they made it exceedingly clear that Troy Industries has nothing to do with this and it's a black eye on them. It was made clear that this mess has impacted their employee moral. Everyone here has to keep in mind that companies often forge relationships like this to benefit both entities and that corporate structures can be confusing, regardless of naming. It's a potential nightmare when a situation like this one occurs and you are tied by name and very little else. The employees of Troy Ind I have had the pleasure of meeting are shooters and patriots cut from the same cloth as us and it's very clear to see this trouble them too. I'm not sure what to expect next, or when we will hear more, but I do feel they are making efforts internally and something more will happen. I am a fan of voting with your dollars and voicing your opinion. I know people at Troy can't take the time to talk to everyone as they did with me, so all I ask is that you keep the above in mind when forming your decisions. Also remember we are not privy to all the inside information on what is taking place. If I feel Troy Industries has misled us on this and is responsible for the hiring, we will take appropriate action, but I have faith in Steve and everyone there to do what is right. They have proven time and time again that they will do what is right and they have never given us a reason to doubt them. GoatBoy - Something is fishy about this. Go check out Troy Asymmetric yourself at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cor/ (Sec State of Massachusetts website). Click on "Search the Corporate Database" and type in "Troy Asymmetric" for Entity name. Then open up their Annual Report. Notice that the only Officer / Manager and Resident Agent listed is "Stephen P. Troy" Now look up Troy Industries. The same "Stephen P. Troy" is the CEO and Director. Same address for both entities. The only other name associated with Troy Asymmetric is the signer of the Certificate of Organization is FREDERICK D. ROYAL. Well that is pretty fucked up. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:13:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Us: "Troy! You hired a shit bag, J-Fled!" Troy: "Oh geez, you're right. Our bad, we fucking fired his lame ass!" Us: "Sweet, but you also hired this other shit bag, Dale." Troy: "Oh, he's not a shitbag. He's awesome and I agree with what he did." Us: "No he isn't!" Troy: "Oh... well sorry, separate companies. Can't do anything about it!" This might be one of the most accurate Cliff's notes I've ever seen on arfcom. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:18:05 AM EDT
[#21]
I've seen similar and feel there must be ties. Perhaps I was wrong to state they are entirely dis-joined, but are dis-joined in their leadership structures excluding ownership. I've spoken to people I know there and not pushed too much. My thought is to get information everyone deserves and to understand as much as I can about what will happen next. Is this settled? Is something going on? When will we hear more? Ever?
As I've said, I've spoken to Steve before and I know he stands by his values above all. It's about doing what is right to him. If he feels that Monroe is being given a shit hand because of misinformation, he will take that stand. If he feels he was misled or misinformed, he will address and correct the situation. I have respect for anyone who stands by their beliefs against any odds, but my concern in this situation though is not respect for someone being true to themselves, but that the information out there is clear for us all to make the best decisions we can. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:18:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This might be one of the most accurate Cliff's notes I've ever seen on arfcom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Us: "Troy! You hired a shit bag, J-Fled!" Troy: "Oh geez, you're right. Our bad, we fucking fired his lame ass!" Us: "Sweet, but you also hired this other shit bag, Dale." Troy: "Oh, he's not a shitbag. He's awesome and I agree with what he did." Us: "No he isn't!" Troy: "Oh... well sorry, separate companies. Can't do anything about it!" This might be one of the most accurate Cliff's notes I've ever seen on arfcom. I thin i will start using that in all of the threads where troy is popping up now |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:20:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the hive gets it's mad on....ain't nobody or nothing safe nowhere....... Hell hath no fury like Arfcom scorned...
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:20:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have respect for anyone who stands by their beliefs against any odds, but my concern in this situation though is not respect for someone being true to themselves, but that the information out there is clear for us all to make the best decisions we can. I don't respect people who lie to cover up for awful people, much less as a justification to keep them on ship. My bet? Dale has connections that bring in business. ETA: Their explanation for hiring Weis was that they didn't know about his past. Not a peep about "separate companies." In my personal opinion, having them as an industry partner is equally a black eye for this website. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:21:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen similar and feel there must be ties. Perhaps i was wrong to state they are entirely dis-joined, but are dis-joined in their leadership structures excluding ownership. i've spoken to people I know there and not pushed too much. My thought is to get information everyone deserves and to understand as much as I can about what will happen next. Is this settled? Is something going on? When will we hear more? Ever? As I've said, I've spoken to Steve before and I know he stands by his values above all. It's about doing what is right to him. If he feels that Monroe is being given a shit hand because of misinformation, he will take that stand. If he feels he was misled or misinformed, he will address and correct the situation. I have respect for anyone who stands by their beliefs against any odds, but my concern in this situation though is not respect for someone being true to themselves, but that the information out there is clear for us all to make the best decisions we can. Great post and I agree with you. However, the spin machine is working overtime by them. Sure they are separate companies, but Steve has his hands on both, and he's the one that makes the decisions in the end. It's not the rank and file, it's him and what he does with one company bearing his name will affect other companies bearing his name. That's the whole reason to put his name on all his companies, so they benefit each other. It also goes the other way. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:22:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the hive gets it's mad on....ain't nobody or nothing safe nowhere....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Go read the documents filed by Troy with the State of Massachusetts yourself. They are only a page or two long each... decide how separate these companies really are. Annual Report - Troy Industries http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1050/201322621700_1.pdf Annual Report - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1186/201322638870_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Defense http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1474/201268941540_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1564/201268955600_1.pdf When the hive gets it's mad on....ain't nobody or nothing safe nowhere....... HS Precision Zumbo Code Red Firearms These are confirmed ARFCOM kills and yet people in the industry still think it couldn't happen to them, because we're a bunch of basement dwelling nobodies.
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:22:59 AM EDT
[#27]
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally.
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:24:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen similar and feel there must be ties. Perhaps I was wrong to state they are entirely dis-joined, but are dis-joined in their leadership structures excluding ownership. I've spoken to people I know there and not pushed too much. My thought is to get information everyone deserves and to understand as much as I can about what will happen next. Is this settled? Is something going on? When will we hear more? Ever? As I've said, I've spoken to Steve before and I know he stands by his values above all. It's about doing what is right to him. If he feels that Monroe is being given a shit hand because of misinformation, he will take that stand. If he feels he was misled or misinformed, he will address and correct the situation. I have respect for anyone who stands by their beliefs against any odds, but my concern in this situation though is not respect for someone being true to themselves, but that the information out there is clear for us all to make the best decisions we can. Im wondering how he can think this if he actually watched the congressional hearing tape...
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:25:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen similar and feel there must be ties. Perhaps I was wrong to state they are entirely dis-joined, but are dis-joined in their leadership structures excluding ownership. I've spoken to people I know there and not pushed too much. My thought is to get information everyone deserves and to understand as much as I can about what will happen next. Is this settled? Is something going on? When will we hear more? Ever? As I've said, I've spoken to Steve before and I know he stands by his values above all. It's about doing what is right to him. If he feels that Monroe is being given a shit hand because of misinformation, he will take that stand. If he feels he was misled or misinformed, he will address and correct the situation. I have respect for anyone who stands by their beliefs against any odds, but my concern in this situation though is not respect for someone being true to themselves, but that the information out there is clear for us all to make the best decisions we can. Let's cut to the chase. Steve Troy has the authority to fire Monroe. He owns the company. But, if he does so, he may end up going against Kevin Miles, the man he selected to run Troy Asymmetric. The reality is that if Steve Troy asserts his prerogative he might piss off one or more of his Troy Asymmetric underlings. Instead he's decided to take on the wrath of the entire civilian shooting community. Mr. Miles must be one Grade A Tier 1 badass.
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:25:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great post and I agree with you. However, the spin machine is working overtime by them. Sure they are separate companies, but Steve has his hands on both, and he's the one that makes the decisions in the end. It's not the rank and file, it's him and what he does with one company bearing his name will affect other companies bearing his name. That's the whole reason to put his name on all his companies, so they benefit each other. It also goes the other way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've seen similar and feel there must be ties. Perhaps i was wrong to state they are entirely dis-joined, but are dis-joined in their leadership structures excluding ownership. i've spoken to people I know there and not pushed too much. My thought is to get information everyone deserves and to understand as much as I can about what will happen next. Is this settled? Is something going on? When will we hear more? Ever? As I've said, I've spoken to Steve before and I know he stands by his values above all. It's about doing what is right to him. If he feels that Monroe is being given a shit hand because of misinformation, he will take that stand. If he feels he was misled or misinformed, he will address and correct the situation. I have respect for anyone who stands by their beliefs against any odds, but my concern in this situation though is not respect for someone being true to themselves, but that the information out there is clear for us all to make the best decisions we can. Great post and I agree with you. However, the spin machine is working overtime by them. Sure they are separate companies, but Steve has his hands on both, and he's the one that makes the decisions in the end. It's not the rank and file, it's him and what he does with one company bearing his name will affect other companies bearing his name. That's the whole reason to put his name on all his companies, so they benefit each other. It also goes the other way. But without speaking to him it's hard to get facts. I doubt everyone under him understands what is going on or has all the information. Speaking to EdSr about the site and it's decisions is different than speaking to me about it. This is when clarity and being open makes all the difference in the world. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:27:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Having the time to step back and analyze their fucked up ROE after the fact, Mr. Monroe still thought both shots were constitutional. Thats even more messed up than saying he would have taken the shot at the time IMO. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:28:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ETA: Their explanation for hiring Weis was that they didn't know about his past. Not a peep about "separate companies." In my personal opinion, having them as an industry partner is equally a black eye for this website. I call bullshit one them not knowing his past. HOW?! Even a quick google search would bring up articles, and I've never applied for a job where it wasn't asked why I left a former employer. They don't even call CPD? Nobody at Troy heard anything about him being basically fired from being the Chief of CPD 
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:28:41 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having the time to step back and analyze their fucked up ROE after the fact, Mr. Monroe still thought both shots were constitutional. Thats even more messed up than saying he would have taken the shot at the time IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Having the time to step back and analyze their fucked up ROE after the fact, Mr. Monroe still thought both shots were constitutional. Thats even more messed up than saying he would have taken the shot at the time IMO. I don't disagree. BUT on something this big, we have to be 100% accurate. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:29:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't disagree. BUT on something this big, we have to be 100% accurate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Having the time to step back and analyze their fucked up ROE after the fact, Mr. Monroe still thought both shots were constitutional. Thats even more messed up than saying he would have taken the shot at the time IMO. I don't disagree. BUT on something this big, we have to be 100% accurate. More accurate than a HRT sniper? 
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:30:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I call bullshit one them not knowing his past. HOW?! Even a quick google search would bring up articles, and I've never applied for a job where it wasn't asked why I left a former employer. They don't even call CPD? Nobody at Troy heard anything about him being basically fired from being the Chief of CPD
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ETA: Their explanation for hiring Weis was that they didn't know about his past. Not a peep about "separate companies." In my personal opinion, having them as an industry partner is equally a black eye for this website. I call bullshit one them not knowing his past. HOW?! Even a quick google search would bring up articles, and I've never applied for a job where it wasn't asked why I left a former employer. They don't even call CPD? Nobody at Troy heard anything about him being basically fired from being the Chief of CPD
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif Working for Troy might be pretty cool. Since they don't seem to do even basic background checks, I think I'll apply as the former president of FBI Tactical Team Snipering. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:30:31 AM EDT
[#36]
 Quote HistoryQuoted:
More accurate than a HRT sniper? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Having the time to step back and analyze their fucked up ROE after the fact, Mr. Monroe still thought both shots were constitutional. Thats even more messed up than saying he would have taken the shot at the time IMO. I don't disagree. BUT on something this big, we have to be 100% accurate. More accurate than a HRT sniper? |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:31:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Emotion and misinformation go hand in hand. We often see what we want to see. Either way, I've tried to represent the community to get information out. If Steve provides information showing that the discussion here is way off track, it's more helpful than just saying it's wrong. The point of all of this is that putting out information leads to the death of assumption. Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:33:10 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Emotion and misinformation go hand in hand. We often see what we want to see. Either way, I've tried to represent the community to get information out. If Steve provides information showing that the discussion here is way off track, it's more helpful than just saying it's wrong. The point of all of this is that putting out information leads to the death of assumption. Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Emotion and misinformation go hand in hand. We often see what we want to see. Either way, I've tried to represent the community to get information out. If Steve provides information showing that the discussion here is way off track, it's more helpful than just saying it's wrong. The point of all of this is that putting out information leads to the death of assumption. Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. I don't blame you for wanting to be thorough. I would be too in your shoes. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:34:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my personal opinion, having them as an industry partner is equally a black eye for this website. I dont know how the arf industry partnership deal works but it's a fair guess that it's a time-based contract. It's not whether arf honors their contract that would bother me, but whether they would renew it. I have similar inclinations about other Troy partners like LaRue. Just as an example, if LaRue continued to use rebranded Troy stuff beyond their existing contracted parts plus whatever reasonable time is required to find suitable replacement, I'd have to take that into consideration. This shit matters to me. I ordered an OBR from LaRue as a "thank you" for cutting of LE sales to anti-gun states/LE's. It works the other way too... |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:35:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Emotion and misinformation go hand in hand. We often see what we want to see. Either way, I've tried to represent the community to get information out. If Steve provides information showing that the discussion here is way off track, it's more helpful than just saying it's wrong. The point of all of this is that putting out information leads to the death of assumption. Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only misinformation I've seen come from our side is a few people saying that Monroe said he would have shot Vicki Weaver. Monroe said he would have taken shot that killed her, while also saying that shot wasn't meant for her. Not that he would have killed her intentionally. Emotion and misinformation go hand in hand. We often see what we want to see. Either way, I've tried to represent the community to get information out. If Steve provides information showing that the discussion here is way off track, it's more helpful than just saying it's wrong. The point of all of this is that putting out information leads to the death of assumption. Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. The problem is, Troy (trying to clear things up after telling us we were wrong) gave us the info we have now in the form of the film of the congressional hearing. Quite a few in here, including myself watched the entire 4 hours and heard statements even more damning than what a lot of the posters were claiming previously. The basis for their outrage was basically reinforced because of this info. We pointed these things out to Troy, and were still told we were wrong... |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:37:53 AM EDT
[#41]
I just don't see how "completely isolated" they can be.Both have the same address in West Side right off RT5 next to AAA,been by there 1000's of times....
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:40:13 AM EDT
[#42]
The hive has spoken...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HS Precision Zumbo Code Red Firearms These are confirmed ARFCOM kills and yet people in the industry still think it couldn't happen to them, because we're a bunch of basement dwelling nobodies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Go read the documents filed by Troy with the State of Massachusetts yourself. They are only a page or two long each... decide how separate these companies really are. Annual Report - Troy Industries http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1050/201322621700_1.pdf Annual Report - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1186/201322638870_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Defense http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1474/201268941540_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1564/201268955600_1.pdf When the hive gets it's mad on....ain't nobody or nothing safe nowhere....... HS Precision Zumbo Code Red Firearms These are confirmed ARFCOM kills and yet people in the industry still think it couldn't happen to them, because we're a bunch of basement dwelling nobodies. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:40:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steve Troy should have said something more like that, with a finishing sentence like "We are working to cut ties with that other 'Troy' company," instead of put his name on what is essentially an endorsement of Dale Monroe. Not convinced. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I spoke with Troy reps this morning about this situation and got more clarity on where things are. Troy Industries is a completely isolated company from Troy Asymmetric. Different leadership, different contacts, as far as I was told autonomous from each other. Yes, they can exert pressure on each other and I would guess they could cut ties from each other if needed. I'm assuming that the quick response last week proved that there is a sufficient amount of pressure on the relationship afforded to each other. This doesn't mean that Steve or anyone else inside Troy Ind can make business decisions for the Asymmetric business from what I was told. So at this time Troy Ind is unhappy with the current situation, not unlike people here, and that they are waiting for it to shake out at higher levels. Before I ever brought up that this community would distance itself from a company acting in this manner, they made it exceedingly clear that Troy Industries has nothing to do with this and it's a black eye on them. It was made clear that this mess has impacted their employee moral. Steve Troy should have said something more like that, with a finishing sentence like "We are working to cut ties with that other 'Troy' company," instead of put his name on what is essentially an endorsement of Dale Monroe. Not convinced. I'm sorry but after watching that video myself, and seeing how Troy cherry picked a few things from it to defend Monroe while totally ignoring all the times Monroe defends the murder of Vicki Weaver during the course of that video I am absolutely done with Troy and any company associated with Steve Troy. On Friday Steve Troy needed to come out and say that he was deeply concerned that the "separate entity" Troy Asymmetric had hired Dale Monroe and that he would be cutting off all ties with that company and preventing them from using the name "Troy" in the future unless they fired Dale Monroe immediately and instituted a review of their hiring process. That was the ONLY response that would have been valid at that point. Instead Steve Troy basically posted the exact opposite of that on Facebook. If he had just been quiet for a few more days until it all sorted out, then I would have been able to accept that, but now he has backed himself into a corner by defending Monroe, and there is no way he can save face. Anything Troy does to correct this now will just be seen as backpedaling under pressure. They had their chance to stand against would be tyrants, JBTs, and the murder of innocents. Instead they were very quick to stand with them and defend their actions. They can do absolutely nothing now to make things right in my eyes, no matter how much they backpedal.
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:50:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having met Todd once I'd say he laughs himself to sleep every night when he reads some hate filled screed they put out. It's not hurting him. Bump to keep the Troy hate alive! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
M4c is fucking obsessed with that Todd Green guy, who no one but them seems to care about Having met Todd once I'd say he laughs himself to sleep every night when he reads some hate filled screed they put out. It's not hurting him. Bump to keep the Troy hate alive! I took an AFHF course from Todd and the only problem I had with it was me. I just wasn't prepared well enough. The course was well worth the time and money spent. Guys at his level are all Type A personalities and they have their own techniques of both shooting and teaching. I have no issue with that but maybe some people do. I was there to learn what I could and I accomplished that so I was satisfied. It seems he had a falling out with one of the cool kid groups. My opinion is, who cares. But clearly it's an issue with somebody. Back to topic, fuck Troy Industries. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:55:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Midwest has announced the release of their keymod rail!
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Posted: 8/26/2013 10:55:34 AM EDT
[#46]
What is really amusing is that the director of training at Troy Asymmetric claims to work for Troy Industries, not Troy Asymmetric.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kevin-miles/4b/50b/785 |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 11:03:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is really amusing is that the director of training at Troy Asymmetric claims to work for Troy Industries, not Troy Asymmetric. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kevin-miles/4b/50b/785 SO shocked..... 
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Posted: 8/26/2013 11:07:48 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GB, we're appreciative that you took the time to try and get a response out of Troy, but based on what they told you, I hope you were rolling your eyes during the whole conversation. Likewise. More back pedaling and outright lies. I'm no longer surprised. 
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Posted: 8/26/2013 11:21:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is really amusing is that the director of training at Troy Asymmetric claims to work for Troy Industries, not Troy Asymmetric. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kevin-miles/4b/50b/785 You're wrong, that's not at all what he meant, they're different companies. Steve Troy said so. |
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Posted: 8/26/2013 11:25:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hive has spoken... Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hive has spoken... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Go read the documents filed by Troy with the State of Massachusetts yourself. They are only a page or two long each... decide how separate these companies really are. Annual Report - Troy Industries http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1050/201322621700_1.pdf Annual Report - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2013/0228/000000000/1186/201322638870_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Defense http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1474/201268941540_1.pdf Certificate of Organization - Troy Asymmetric http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2012/0208/000000000/1564/201268955600_1.pdf When the hive gets it's mad on....ain't nobody or nothing safe nowhere....... HS Precision Zumbo Code Red Firearms These are confirmed ARFCOM kills and yet people in the industry still think it couldn't happen to them, because we're a bunch of basement dwelling nobodies. You forgot Tsai at the RECOIL magazine.. He is a goner too 
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