Have you personally witnessed this?

HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas.



http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg

They didn't copy ideas.

They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther.

looks like a Canik TP9 for twice the MSRP  Canik

The P30 came out long before the PPQ.  The VP9 is a striker fired P30.

The PPQ looks like the P30.  The VP9 also looks like the P30.  So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30?

You can say the same thing about a sigma and an M&P

Who said anything about target guns? A Glock trigger may be "adequate", but better is better.

You mean, because it has a grip, a slide, and a barrel?

They're practically copies.  

perhaps you mean a Sigma and a Glock??  At least the Sigma and M&P are both made by the same company.

You're telling me you don't see any similarities beyond that of a generic handgun???

P99 came first.

Very, very few.  The grip texture is different.  Grip shape is different.  The trigger is different.  The trigger guard is different.  The magazine release is different.  The floorplate of the magazine is different.  The rail is different.  The slide cuts are different, almost USP like on the Canik with no front serrations like the VP9.  The extractor is an odd shape with a possible stress concentration on it.  The rear beavertail-ish area is different.  The side panels are not interchangeable.  WTF is that button looking thing on top of the slide?

But they both have a slide and a grip.  And a barrel.  And a slide release lever.

So the argument is now that the VP9 is now a copy of the P99?  Or that the P30 is a copy of the P99?

There's a relatively limited number of ways you can make a semi-automatic polymer-framed handgun that isn't retarded.  The physical relationship between the barrel, slide, frame, and trigger are going to stay basically the same.  Grip angle has become fairly standardized these days.  There are only two common types of magazines releases, and they're essentially a direct American/European split in usage.  Slide releases are going to be located in the same basic location.  Frames will have 1913 rails on them.  Sights will be of a standard front post and rear U-notch design.  When the frame is polymer, there's a relatively limited number of ways to detail in the styling of the grip panels.

TL;DR: Pistols are going to look fucking similar because they are similar by necessity.  Until someone invests powergun technology, or phase plasma rifles in the 40 watt range, expect things to stay fairly static.

And yet the more this claim comes up the less I see the resemblance.

Frankly Walther fans seem pissed off they didn't get "their turn". Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over  the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. Just like the Carcal the Walthers just don't have the market support and most likely the Canik and Strikefire will most likely fall into the same boat.

Well said!

It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism



 

Does it have the same styling? No. Does it have the same fire control group (other than a striker)? I wager not. Your point? I'm not seeing one.





 

ding ding ding ding ding!

Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes.

I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line.

 






 

Though the Walther PPX has the price advantage by far, seems to be one of the best deals going right now for a full-size

At times when the PPQ was actually available from distribution and on my shelf, it might sell once or twice per month.  Maybe.  And then there have been the long gaps in availability where there wouldn't be any on my shelf to sell in the first place.  In contrast, it's not very uncommon to sell 2-3 Glock 19s in a single day, and probably 4-6 M&P9/9c's in a week.  The P30 never had the sales figures of the former guns at any point other than during special sales promotions when it started to drop down in price closer to $800 or so, at which points the entire inventory would get sold off easily.  Knocking another $200 off that price point is a huge, huge shift in the market dynamics of full-size polymer pistols.  If H&K can supply the market with enough product to keep people from raising prices, and maintain a steady supply without interruptions, the VP9 (and presumably the VP40) stands a very good chance at taking 3rd or 4th place in that segment of the market.

I don't see how that matters. It's a very well known problem.

But yes, I've seen plenty of cracked Glock mags.
Can you still use them after they start to crack? Sure, and most people do, at least for range/practice use.

I'm just saying, Glock mags aren't anywhere close to "best mags ever." They have lots of problems.

Yes, I'm aware of everything you mentioned. So where are these being advertised for $599? I could see the P30 magazine interchangeability being a selling point. But that would be the only selling point. At least I can get a 17 round mag if I want, and as far as I'm concerned, HK struck out in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded. No grand slam here. Sorry to disappoint you

Cross Creek Guns

Nobody copied that POS

No fooling

Lol not really.  That's just the noise of all of the HK fanboys spooging in unison.

The Glock 42 made more "noise"

HK doesn't have mass appeal

They are a niche player with about double the penetration of walther.

It matters in determine if you are FOS and repeating HK fanboy propaganda or speaking from experience.

Glock mags take shitloads of abuse and still work

Things that kill other mags are brushed off on Glock.

You want an example?   Cops going to the ground and landing on their mags on pavement.   Smith M&P floor plates just shatter, sig mags dent.  No idea on HK mags because I don't think depts that adopt them stick with them long enough to really try them.

Fixed it,  but other than that you are 100% correct in your assessment sir.

besides who does mag dumps with a P7 that's what Sigs are for.

Maybe the cops shouldn't be so heavy, then.  

Just Google "cracked Glock magazine."  I don't need to argue this one; it should be common knowledge.


Anyhow, it's worth mentioning that ALL magazines are wear items.

Two new videos out about it:

From HK themselves:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxvgMe1I9SY

From American Rifleman:  http://www.americanrifleman.org/videos/exclusive-look-at-the-hk-vp9-striker-fired-pistol

Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol.

First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’

Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work.

The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same.

The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger.

Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market.

The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess.

Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9.

Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop.
Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available.

The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand.

Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work.

The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well.

To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in.

Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed.

Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional.

Saw your post on HKPro. Thanks for sharing that info!

Looks like they addressed the egos of a Brick issue though.

They added finger cuts and shit....so it's like a chipped brick. Progress!!

Here you go!

VP9

nailed it.

You've had a P7, you know better than that.  The P7 and P9 triggers are probably the two nicest triggers ever installed in a mass-produced striker-fired pistol.  

Now, if you said HK hasn't done a good trigger in a couple of decades, I'd have to agree with you.

Thanks for this! I'm running a PPQ but I have some concerns about Walther's cs having to diagnose a problem with their Navy model on my own. I doubt HK would have these issues, they're big enough to be able to handle stuff like that.

What brought me into carrying the PPQ was number 1 trigger and number 2 ergos. If the VP9 comes in as good as the PPQ with better our of the box sights I may be switching over after they have been out a while.

Again, thanks for the post! It answered almost all of my questions.

I really like my P30s and my glocks. I plan on getting 2 or 3 of the VP9s.   Its HK's quality and attention to details that sell me on their products.

Great post, thanks for the information. Pity they stuck with the paddle magazine release. Frankly, if they refuse to go to a button, I'd rather have a heel release. Walther has corrected this flaw, not sure why HK won't address it.




 
 

Because paddle release is better.

That they haven't succumbed to the mob on that makes it more confusing why they wouldn't dispense with convention on some other bullet-point marketing items.

The paddle release is for Commies. Whoever invented it should have been hit in the head with a mallet so that they didn't pollute the world with their DNA.





 
 
 

I think it's a hell of a lot better as well.

Yeah, I preferred the paddle release even before I got an HK (my dad had a p22.)  The only people that I have seen that have trouble with it are the ones that try to drop the mag with their thumb, I am guessing since they are used to using the "American style" mag release with their thumb.  The correct way to operate it is with your middle finger.

But even that is incorrect.  The correct way to operate it is to try your trigger finger, middle finger, and thumb to see which works best for you.  Hand sizes change which one works for different people.

Posting facts?

WTF? This...is...ARFcom!!



Just when I had a good fact-less rant ready!