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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas.
http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg |
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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg View Quote They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. |
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looks like a Canik TP9 for twice the MSRP Canik
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They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. The P30 came out long before the PPQ. The VP9 is a striker fired P30. The PPQ looks like the P30. The VP9 also looks like the P30. So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30? |
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View Quote You can say the same thing about a sigma and an M&P |
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But it is consistent ![]() Why are we talking about target guns anyways? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! ![]() It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger And neither has Glock. If the claims being made about the VP9's trigger are true, then the quality of the trigger will clearly be an advantage it has over Glock. But it is consistent ![]() Why are we talking about target guns anyways? Who said anything about target guns? A Glock trigger may be "adequate", but better is better. |
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View Quote You mean, because it has a grip, a slide, and a barrel? They're practically copies. ![]() |
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perhaps you mean a Sigma and a Glock?? At least the Sigma and M&P are both made by the same company.
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You mean, because it has a grip, a slide, and a barrel? They're practically copies. ![]() View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
You mean, because it has a grip, a slide, and a barrel? They're practically copies. ![]() You're telling me you don't see any similarities beyond that of a generic handgun??? ![]() |
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The P30 came out long before the PPQ. The VP9 is a striker fired P30. The PPQ looks like the P30. The VP9 also looks like the P30. So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. The P30 came out long before the PPQ. The VP9 is a striker fired P30. The PPQ looks like the P30. The VP9 also looks like the P30. So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30? ![]() ![]() P99 came first. |
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You're telling me you don't see any similarities beyond that of a generic handgun??? ![]() View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You mean, because it has a grip, a slide, and a barrel? They're practically copies. ![]() You're telling me you don't see any similarities beyond that of a generic handgun??? ![]() Very, very few. The grip texture is different. Grip shape is different. The trigger is different. The trigger guard is different. The magazine release is different. The floorplate of the magazine is different. The rail is different. The slide cuts are different, almost USP like on the Canik with no front serrations like the VP9. The extractor is an odd shape with a possible stress concentration on it. The rear beavertail-ish area is different. The side panels are not interchangeable. WTF is that button looking thing on top of the slide? But they both have a slide and a grip. And a barrel. And a slide release lever. |
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http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/Walther_P99.jpg http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/VP9-Product-Sheet-JUNE-page2.jpg P99 came first. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. The P30 came out long before the PPQ. The VP9 is a striker fired P30. The PPQ looks like the P30. The VP9 also looks like the P30. So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30? http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/Walther_P99.jpg http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/VP9-Product-Sheet-JUNE-page2.jpg P99 came first. So the argument is now that the VP9 is now a copy of the P99? Or that the P30 is a copy of the P99? |
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There's a relatively limited number of ways you can make a semi-automatic polymer-framed handgun that isn't retarded. The physical relationship between the barrel, slide, frame, and trigger are going to stay basically the same. Grip angle has become fairly standardized these days. There are only two common types of magazines releases, and they're essentially a direct American/European split in usage. Slide releases are going to be located in the same basic location. Frames will have 1913 rails on them. Sights will be of a standard front post and rear U-notch design. When the frame is polymer, there's a relatively limited number of ways to detail in the styling of the grip panels.
TL;DR: Pistols are going to look fucking similar because they are similar by necessity. Until someone invests powergun technology, or phase plasma rifles in the 40 watt range, expect things to stay fairly static. |
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http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/Walther_P99.jpg http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/VP9-Product-Sheet-JUNE-page2.jpg P99 came first. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. The P30 came out long before the PPQ. The VP9 is a striker fired P30. The PPQ looks like the P30. The VP9 also looks like the P30. So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30? http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/Walther_P99.jpg http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/VP9-Product-Sheet-JUNE-page2.jpg P99 came first. And yet the more this claim comes up the less I see the resemblance. Frankly Walther fans seem pissed off they didn't get "their turn". Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. Just like the Carcal the Walthers just don't have the market support and most likely the Canik and Strikefire will most likely fall into the same boat. |
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its depressing how the same company took the aesthetic and performance perfection of the P7 and turned it into the fucked up, Frankenstein looking handguns of the last 15 years. all in the name of playing catch up in the polymer frame market? https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6110/6218728139_d693b0c4ed_z.jpg 1. super low bore axis...gone 2. low profile slide...gone 3. laser beam accuracy from fixed barrel...gone 4. easy concealability even in the double stack version...gone 5. burned index finger after multiple back-to-back mag dumps...gone ![]() View Quote |
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Quoted: http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/Walther_P99.jpg http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/VP9-Product-Sheet-JUNE-page2.jpg P99 came first. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg They didn't copy ideas. They blatantly copied the P99 and/or PPQ from Walther. The P30 came out long before the PPQ. The VP9 is a striker fired P30. The PPQ looks like the P30. The VP9 also looks like the P30. So why is the conclusion that the VP9 is a copy of the PPQ when it is actually essentially a variation of the P30? http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Pistols/Walther_P99.jpg http://modernserviceweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/VP9-Product-Sheet-JUNE-page2.jpg P99 came first. |
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There's a relatively limited number of ways you can make a semi-automatic polymer-framed handgun that isn't retarded. The physical relationship between the barrel, slide, frame, and trigger are going to stay basically the same. Grip angle has become fairly standardized these days. There are only two common types of magazines releases, and they're essentially a direct American/European split in usage. Slide releases are going to be located in the same basic location. Frames will have 1913 rails on them. Sights will be of a standard front post and rear U-notch design. When the frame is polymer, there's a relatively limited number of ways to detail in the styling of the grip panels. TL;DR: Pistols are going to look fucking similar because they are similar by necessity. Until someone invests powergun technology, or phase plasma rifles in the 40 watt range, expect things to stay fairly static. View Quote ding ding ding ding ding! |
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It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. |
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Quoted: Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. Eh, Ill believe it when I see HK make a decent striker fired trigger. The PPQ has the best striker trigger of the current crop, hands down, and there are folks that think its too light for carry or duty use. I dont believe HK will be going after the market that will appreciate a PPQ style trigger. I could be wrong, but they have never been interested in lighter triggers in the past. Regardless, the PPQ, HK VP9, Glock, M&P and XD pistols are all so different that I cant see any of them going away any time soon. |
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Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. Though the Walther PPX has the price advantage by far, seems to be one of the best deals going right now for a full-size |
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Eh, Ill believe it when I see HK make a decent striker fired trigger. The PPQ has the best striker trigger of the current crop, hands down, and there are folks that think its too light for carry or duty use. I dont believe HK will be going after the market that will appreciate a PPQ style trigger. I could be wrong, but they have never been interested in lighter triggers in the past. Regardless, the PPQ, HK VP9, Glock, M&P and XD pistols are all so different that I cant see any of them going away any time soon. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. Eh, Ill believe it when I see HK make a decent striker fired trigger. The PPQ has the best striker trigger of the current crop, hands down, and there are folks that think its too light for carry or duty use. I dont believe HK will be going after the market that will appreciate a PPQ style trigger. I could be wrong, but they have never been interested in lighter triggers in the past. Regardless, the PPQ, HK VP9, Glock, M&P and XD pistols are all so different that I cant see any of them going away any time soon. At times when the PPQ was actually available from distribution and on my shelf, it might sell once or twice per month. Maybe. And then there have been the long gaps in availability where there wouldn't be any on my shelf to sell in the first place. In contrast, it's not very uncommon to sell 2-3 Glock 19s in a single day, and probably 4-6 M&P9/9c's in a week. The P30 never had the sales figures of the former guns at any point other than during special sales promotions when it started to drop down in price closer to $800 or so, at which points the entire inventory would get sold off easily. Knocking another $200 off that price point is a huge, huge shift in the market dynamics of full-size polymer pistols. If H&K can supply the market with enough product to keep people from raising prices, and maintain a steady supply without interruptions, the VP9 (and presumably the VP40) stands a very good chance at taking 3rd or 4th place in that segment of the market. |
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Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Have you personally witnessed this? I don't see how that matters. It's a very well known problem. But yes, I've seen plenty of cracked Glock mags. Can you still use them after they start to crack? Sure, and most people do, at least for range/practice use. I'm just saying, Glock mags aren't anywhere close to "best mags ever." They have lots of problems. |
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FWIW, the HK mag release is pretty different from the Walther M1. The Walther sits really far forward on the trigger guard and is pretty thin. The mags are harder to find locally for the Walther because it's a Walther product as well as the M1 and M2 mags are different. Because HK uses the same mags for the P30 series, the price generally is cheaper than the Walther mags and they are easier to find. The grip is similar to the Walther but has the additional side panel options so there isn't really much debate to be made. With advertised pricing of $599 already, it has nothing to do with fan clubs. HK hit a grandslam View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How is this going to be better than a PPQ? It won't be... ![]() Lol if the HK trigger is as good as they say, the PPQ will be irrelevant. HK is a brand name that sells a lot better than Walther,(maybe? show me some sales figures) PPQ=$535 HK=$650-700?) has a better grip(debatable), better magazine release( M1 has the same release), more available magazine supply( I can find any Walther mag I want), much better sight options,(That is true for HK, I swapped the PPQ sights for trijicons in about 10 min.) and a longer slide which I personally prefer. There are a lot of good handguns out there and I honestly like them all, however HK (finally) hit an absolute homerun with this gun. They are going to crush it and I sure as hell want one Like I said, we'll see after the reviews come out. I'm betting on the PPQ, I have nothing against the fan boy clubs, it's only my opinion of course. FWIW, the HK mag release is pretty different from the Walther M1. The Walther sits really far forward on the trigger guard and is pretty thin. The mags are harder to find locally for the Walther because it's a Walther product as well as the M1 and M2 mags are different. Because HK uses the same mags for the P30 series, the price generally is cheaper than the Walther mags and they are easier to find. The grip is similar to the Walther but has the additional side panel options so there isn't really much debate to be made. With advertised pricing of $599 already, it has nothing to do with fan clubs. HK hit a grandslam Yes, I'm aware of everything you mentioned. So where are these being advertised for $599? I could see the P30 magazine interchangeability being a selling point. But that would be the only selling point. At least I can get a 17 round mag if I want, and as far as I'm concerned, HK struck out in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded. No grand slam here. Sorry to disappoint you |
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Yes, I'm aware of everything you mentioned. So where are these being advertised for $599? I could see the P30 magazine interchangeability being a selling point. But that would be the only selling point. At least I can get a 17 round mag if I want, and as far as I'm concerned, HK struck out in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded. No grand slam here. Sorry to disappoint you View Quote Cross Creek Guns |
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HK had the first polymer handgun which was striker fired. I don't know why people say they've copied Glock or Walther ideas. http://i.imgur.com/SM98c8g.jpg View Quote Nobody copied that POS |
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It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism No fooling |
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Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. Lol not really. That's just the noise of all of the HK fanboys spooging in unison. The Glock 42 made more "noise" |
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Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Despite the reviews American handgunning market is basically skipping over the Walther line and going from M&Ps to an HK that's not even on the market. It's a little early to make that claim. Reality > Fanboyism Agree. But there's an insane amount of discussion across the Web on this gun and it checks of a lot of boxes. I don't see it being the heralded G19 killer, but it most could put a nail in the coffin of mass American appeal of the Walther line. HK doesn't have mass appeal They are a niche player with about double the penetration of walther. |
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I don't see how that matters. It's a very well known problem. But yes, I've seen plenty of cracked Glock mags. Can you still use them after they start to crack? Sure, and most people do, at least for range/practice use. I'm just saying, Glock mags aren't anywhere close to "best mags ever." They have lots of problems. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Have you personally witnessed this? I don't see how that matters. It's a very well known problem. But yes, I've seen plenty of cracked Glock mags. Can you still use them after they start to crack? Sure, and most people do, at least for range/practice use. I'm just saying, Glock mags aren't anywhere close to "best mags ever." They have lots of problems. It matters in determine if you are FOS and repeating HK fanboy propaganda or speaking from experience. Glock mags take shitloads of abuse and still work Things that kill other mags are brushed off on Glock. You want an example? Cops going to the ground and landing on their mags on pavement. Smith M&P floor plates just shatter, sig mags dent. No idea on HK mags because I don't think depts that adopt them stick with them long enough to really try them. |
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its depressing how the same company took the aesthetic and performance perfection of the P7 and turned it into the fucked up, Frankenstein looking handguns of the last 15 years. all in the name of playing catch up in the polymer frame market? https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6110/6218728139_d693b0c4ed_z.jpg 1. super low bore axis...gone 2. low profile slide...gone 3. laser beam accuracy from fixed barrel...gone 4. easy concealability even in the double stack version...gone 5. burned index finger after 4 or 5 multiple back-to-back mag dumps...gone ![]() View Quote Fixed it, but other than that you are 100% correct in your assessment sir. ![]() besides who does mag dumps with a P7 that's what Sigs are for. ![]() |
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It matters in determine if you are FOS and repeating HK fanboy propaganda or speaking from experience. Glock mags take shitloads of abuse and still work Things that kill other mags are brushed off on Glock. You want an example? Cops going to the ground and landing on their mags on pavement. Smith M&P floor plates just shatter, sig mags dent. No idea on HK mags because I don't think depts that adopt them stick with them long enough to really try them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Have you personally witnessed this? I don't see how that matters. It's a very well known problem. But yes, I've seen plenty of cracked Glock mags. Can you still use them after they start to crack? Sure, and most people do, at least for range/practice use. I'm just saying, Glock mags aren't anywhere close to "best mags ever." They have lots of problems. It matters in determine if you are FOS and repeating HK fanboy propaganda or speaking from experience. Glock mags take shitloads of abuse and still work Things that kill other mags are brushed off on Glock. You want an example? Cops going to the ground and landing on their mags on pavement. Smith M&P floor plates just shatter, sig mags dent. No idea on HK mags because I don't think depts that adopt them stick with them long enough to really try them. Maybe the cops shouldn't be so heavy, then. ![]() Just Google "cracked Glock magazine." I don't need to argue this one; it should be common knowledge. Anyhow, it's worth mentioning that ALL magazines are wear items. |
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Two new videos out about it:
From HK themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxvgMe1I9SY From American Rifleman: http://www.americanrifleman.org/videos/exclusive-look-at-the-hk-vp9-striker-fired-pistol |
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Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol.
First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’ Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work. The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same. The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger. Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market. The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess. Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9. Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop. Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available. The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand. Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work. The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well. To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in. Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed. Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional. |
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Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol. First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’ Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work. The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same. The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger. Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market. The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess. Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9. Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop. Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available. The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand. Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work. The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well. To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in. Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed. Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional. View Quote Saw your post on HKPro. Thanks for sharing that info! |
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There's a relatively limited number of ways you can make a semi-automatic polymer-framed handgun that isn't retarded. The physical relationship between the barrel, slide, frame, and trigger are going to stay basically the same. Grip angle has become fairly standardized these days. There are only two common types of magazines releases, and they're essentially a direct American/European split in usage. Slide releases are going to be located in the same basic location. Frames will have 1913 rails on them. Sights will be of a standard front post and rear U-notch design. When the frame is polymer, there's a relatively limited number of ways to detail in the styling of the grip panels. TL;DR: Pistols are going to look fucking similar because they are similar by necessity. Until someone invests powergun technology, or phase plasma rifles in the 40 watt range, expect things to stay fairly static. ding ding ding ding ding! nailed it. |
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HK has never done a good trigger View Quote You've had a P7, you know better than that. ![]() Now, if you said HK hasn't done a good trigger in a couple of decades, I'd have to agree with you. |
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Thanks for this! I'm running a PPQ but I have some concerns about Walther's cs having to diagnose a problem with their Navy model on my own. I doubt HK would have these issues, they're big enough to be able to handle stuff like that.
What brought me into carrying the PPQ was number 1 trigger and number 2 ergos. If the VP9 comes in as good as the PPQ with better our of the box sights I may be switching over after they have been out a while. Again, thanks for the post! It answered almost all of my questions. Quoted:
Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol. First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’ Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work. The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same. The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger. Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market. The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess. Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9. Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop. Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available. The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand. Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work. The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well. To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in. Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed. Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional. View Quote |
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I really like my P30s and my glocks. I plan on getting 2 or 3 of the VP9s. Its HK's quality and attention to details that sell me on their products.
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Great post, thanks for the information. Pity they stuck with the paddle magazine release. Frankly, if they refuse to go to a button, I'd rather have a heel release. Walther has corrected this flaw, not sure why HK won't address it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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<snip> Great post, thanks for the information. Pity they stuck with the paddle magazine release. Frankly, if they refuse to go to a button, I'd rather have a heel release. Walther has corrected this flaw, not sure why HK won't address it. Because paddle release is better. That they haven't succumbed to the mob on that makes it more confusing why they wouldn't dispense with convention on some other bullet-point marketing items. |
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The paddle release is for Commies. Whoever invented it should have been hit in the head with a mallet so that they didn't pollute the world with their DNA. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Because paddle release is better. The paddle release is for Commies. Whoever invented it should have been hit in the head with a mallet so that they didn't pollute the world with their DNA. I think it's a hell of a lot better as well. |
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Because paddle release is better. That they haven't succumbed to the mob on that makes it more confusing why they wouldn't dispense with convention on some other bullet-point marketing items. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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<snip> Great post, thanks for the information. Pity they stuck with the paddle magazine release. Frankly, if they refuse to go to a button, I'd rather have a heel release. Walther has corrected this flaw, not sure why HK won't address it. Because paddle release is better. That they haven't succumbed to the mob on that makes it more confusing why they wouldn't dispense with convention on some other bullet-point marketing items. Yeah, I preferred the paddle release even before I got an HK (my dad had a p22.) The only people that I have seen that have trouble with it are the ones that try to drop the mag with their thumb, I am guessing since they are used to using the "American style" mag release with their thumb. The correct way to operate it is with your middle finger. |
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Yeah, I preferred the paddle release even before I got an HK (my dad had a p22.) The only people that I have seen that have trouble with it are the ones that try to drop the mag with their thumb, I am guessing since they are used to using the "American style" mag release with their thumb. The correct way to operate it is with your middle finger. View Quote But even that is incorrect. The correct way to operate it is to try your trigger finger, middle finger, and thumb to see which works best for you. Hand sizes change which one works for different people. |
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Quoted:
Well, it’s been very difficult keeping my mouth shut the last couple of years with this project in development, and an NDA was required to keep me quiet, but now with the official release, I can talk about the pistol. First things first—I wasn’t involved in the development. The credit for the end product goes to the HK design team, and Jason, the HK shooting team captain—he has a lot of time invested in the project. But I have shot the VP9 quite a bit, and can probably answer some of your questions. Now much of this will be subjective, as everyone perceives things differently, so most of this post is considered ‘in my opinion.’ Let me preface all of the following by saying this: I like GLOCKs. My duty gun is a G21. My EDC was (was) a G19. I am not a ‘fan boy’ of anything, but I appreciate things that work. The biggest thing: The trigger. Yes, it’s as good as the reports. I don’t have a ton of time behind a Walther trigger, but in my opinion, it’s as good as or possibly just a little bit better than the Walther. What I can reliably compare it to are stock and modified triggers in M&P and GLOCK handguns. It is easily better than stock offerings in the M&P and GLOCK line, and better than some of the aftermarket upgraded triggers found in the same. The trigger in the VP9 has a light, short and smooth take-up, with no staging or gritty feel, a break that is very crisp and clean and is better than the SA portion of most DA/SA guns I have fired. It has a short and very positive reset. Compared to aftermarket triggers, I’d say the stock VP9 trigger gives many of them a run for their money. I have an M&P Pro 9 that my wife uses for 3-gun, and it has an APEX competition sear kit in it. Comparing the two, the APEX trigger pull is lighter than the stock VP9 trigger, but doesn’t break as clean, has more total travel, and has nowhere near the positive reset that the VP9 does. My G34s both have 3.5# connectors, and spring kits in them (GLOCKWORX, I think). Again, the actual trigger pull weight on the modified G34 is less than the VP9, but the break is cleaner, and you don’t have the staging that is often present in the GLOCK trigger. Also, and this is one of the things I dislike about my P30 triggers, the VP9 trigger breaks much further forward and doesn’t travel nearly as far. I always disliked how the trigger on the P30 doesn’t break until the trigger is all the way back to the frame—I always felt like it was difficult to consistently pull my trigger finger straight to the rear, because the trigger had to move so far back. Not so with the VP9. All in all, I feel it’s the best stock striker trigger on the market. The ‘trough’: Until a poster on AR15.com pointed it out, and voiced his dislike for it, I honestly didn’t even realize it was there. I never noticed the trough in the trigger guard when firing the VP9, but I also never felt it on my HK45 or P30s—so, YMMV, I guess. Sights: The sights share the same dovetail as the P30 / HK45, so aftermarket sights for any of those guns should fit. I have a set of Dawson sights on order to find out if the same height front sight that the P30 uses will work for the VP9. Charging Supports: The first time we all saw the prototype gun with the charging supports we were all like WTF? I didn’t think they really needed to be there, but HK liked them, and they weren’t going anywhere. But here’s the funny thing—when I actually got to shoot the gun, I used them every time without even thinking. They work as advertised, and I think they will be a huge plus for those with reduced hand strength who have trouble manipulating the slide—especially when their hands get wet. They really don’t get in the way of anything, and when CCing the VP9, they don’t protrude enough that you could feel them on your side. Plus, if you really don’t like them, you can drift the rear sight off and replace it with flat inserts that should be available from the web-shop. Mags: It takes P30 mags, and works fine with the Taylor Freelance extensions, so a tight 20 + 1or an easy 19 + 1 is already available. The magazine release paddles: The geometry of the VP9 is a little different than the P30, and the magazine sits further up in the gun. Because of this, the mag release paddles sit up slightly higher and further to the rear than the P30, making it a little easier to hit the magazine release paddles. It also makes it so that the paddles don’t rest below the trigger guard when there isn’t a magazine inserted, which can irritate the hand. Holsters: This is a brand new gun, and I’m sure samples are at holster makers as we speak getting holster blanks made up. I tried the VP9 in a leather holster made for a P30, and it fit fine, but the nose hung out a quarter inch or so. I think a leather holster for a P30L should work just fine. But a word of caution on kydex holsters—during the video shoot, I made a couple of draws and the magazine fell out as I presented the gun. It took two iterations of this to figure out that because the magazine release paddles sit further up on the grip that the indented portion (where the trigger guard is) of the holster (which was molded for a P30) was touching the mag release paddles. So when I was driving my hand down on the grip, I was activating the paddles and ejecting the magazine. I make my own kydex holsters, so I just made my own, but companies are going to have make VP9-specific kydex holsters—a P30 holster may not work. The grip: The VP9 grip is very similar to, and is just as ridiculously comfortable as, the P30 grip. Even more so, though—since the slide is a hair longer in the back than a P30, there is a little more ‘beavertail’ than a P30, and it feels like your hand ‘locks in’ to the grip. The panels come off and go back on the same way as a P30—although I’m not sure if they are identical to and interchangeable with the P30 panels. I’ll check on that as soon as I can. Also, the bore axis of the VP9 is a little lower than the P30, so it should theoretically recoil softer than a P30. The bore axis thing never bothered me too much with other guns, however, so again—YMMV. Felt recoil is a pretty subjective thing. Bottom line is that the VP9 is very easy to shoot well. To the best of my knowledge, the VP9 uses the same recoil spring (not guide rod) as the P30. As such, you can probably expect to shoot some warm 124grn ammo for the first hundred or so rounds to break the gun in. Disassembly is easy, and requires no tools, and pulling the trigger is not required. There is no magazine safety (for firing) but there is a lever that prevents further disassembly of the gun unless the magazine is removed. Well, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head. If you have any questions, fire away. Oh, and I hope you enjoyed the video. It was a lot of fun to make, and the HK marketing team, along with the videographers and photographers were very professional. View Quote Posting facts? WTF? This...is...ARFcom!! ![]() Just when I had a good fact-less rant ready! |
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