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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:45:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately I bet you are right but not in the good way. Most Americans would be fine turning them in and even ratting out the holdouts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There would be a very sudden rise in gun deaths if confiscation were attempted here.  Unfortunately I bet you are right but not in the good way. Most Americans would be fine turning them in and even ratting out the holdouts. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:48:33 PM EDT
[#2]
The drop in the murder rate was just following trends from before the ban, our murder rate was already much lower than yours but people like to claim that the US's would drop as far as ours if you were foolish enough to copy our gun laws.
To compensate plenty of other violent crimes went up because the ban is effectively OH&S for criminals. Did i mention it was half a billion dollars? |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:49:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you look at the number of guns imported into Australia prior to their ban, the turn in numbers look laughable. Only certain guns were banned in Oz Gun ownership has not gone away there at all |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:51:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just because it worked*, doesnt' mean it's right. *i don't believe the statistics. over the last 50 years or so, most western nations have changed their crime reporting standards to the point the numbers don't mean much. And it can be very hard to compare different nation's statistics. For example, Japan police like their 90% success rate on convictions so if there is an unsolvable murder, they are more likely to label it a suicide. Or accidental death. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:51:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The drop in the murder rate was just following trends from before the ban, our murder rate was already much lower than yours but people like to claim that the US's would drop as far as ours if you were foolish enough to copy our gun laws. To compensate plenty of other violent crimes went up because the ban is effectively OH&S for criminals. Did i mention it was half a billion dollars? Sorry for your loss I had always thought your country was one that I might want to go to if the shit hit the fan. Texans and Australians are kind of the same animal but since your loss I understand we will have to fight to the end here. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:52:00 PM EDT
[#6]
I went to the World FITASC shoot in 98 and spoke to several Aussies who were visibly distressed about having their guns taken. They were selling them for cheap to dealers so they wouldn't be destroyed by the Australian. GOV. All semi autos and handguns bye bye.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:53:45 PM EDT
[#7]
They dont have the crazy gang member culture that we unfortunately have. That's where most of the "gun related violence" comes from.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:55:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmm, don't really care. Australia isn't America, and besides, we already have a shitload of guns in private possession. I REALLY wish there would be massive door to door gun seizures, like right now. Then maybe something would kick off. Probably not, though. Incrementalism is a bitch. I'm with you. I'm getting sick and tired of the malaise and the waiting around. Let ME deal with it in my lifetime so that my children and your children don't have to. Same goes for Iran, same goes for these bullshit debt and deficit problems, same goes for everything. People are fucking cowards and are just content with kicking the can down the road. It's pathetic how weak the vast majority of people have become. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:56:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There would be a very sudden rise in gun deaths if confiscation were attempted here. Bullshit. For all the bravado 95% would bend over and take it like good little citizens. The remaining few would be vilified by the Government and media as domestic terrorist and either killed or thrown in prison. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:57:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only certain guns were banned in Oz Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you look at the number of guns imported into Australia prior to their ban, the turn in numbers look laughable. Only certain guns were banned in Oz They imported a lot of SKS, 10/22s, and M1 carbines. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 4:57:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh look, Ezra Klein's crappy website. The Washington Post's Ezra Klein: "My friends on the right don’t like to hear this, but the Constitution is not a clear document. Written 100 years ago, when America had thirteen states and very different problems, it rarely speaks directly to the questions we ask it." http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ek13-e1390333052663.jpg It's perfectly clear, and anything you don't understand are explained in the Federalist papers. But that's not the problem is it Ezra, it's not that it's not clear, it's that it doesn't say what you want it to. And that's the most disingenious, douchebag argument that liberals make all the time. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:09:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Comparisons between UK or Australian homocides rates and the US are usually pretty disingenuous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate These figures suggest the UK had a slightly lower rate (2011/12) than Australia, but either way you're talking about hundreds of people in a country of 63 million (2011). The statistic effect of bans or regulations is unlikely to be replicated in a country of 320 million with a vastly different political culture. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:13:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. For all the bravado 95% would bend over and take it like good little citizens. The remaining few would be vilified by the Government and media as domestic terrorist and either killed or thrown in prison. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There would be a very sudden rise in gun deaths if confiscation were attempted here. Bullshit. For all the bravado 95% would bend over and take it like good little citizens. The remaining few would be vilified by the Government and media as domestic terrorist and either killed or thrown in prison. Then I reckon I'd be a dead or prisoned free man instead of a live subject. Fuck. That. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:14:39 PM EDT
[#14]
So all the confiscations were all Dan Bilzerian's fault.
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4004142/GettyImages-158581522.0.jpg) |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:16:14 PM EDT
[#15]
You can have mine....
But you're going to have to take them. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:18:03 PM EDT
[#16]
33 thousand Japanese kill them self each year with out a gun..
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:25:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And what the left doesn't want to address is that all other crime skyrocketed post ban: http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics.html Haha. Good point and thanks for posting A quick glance (only looked at robberies) shows robberies skyrocketed after the ban. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:28:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They imported a lot of SKS, 10/22s, and M1 carbines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you look at the number of guns imported into Australia prior to their ban, the turn in numbers look laughable. Only certain guns were banned in Oz They imported a lot of SKS, 10/22s, and M1 carbines. Which a number of people could legally keep after 1996. Not all semi autos were confiscated or banned. Current Aussie law allows certain folks to keep their semi autos. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:30:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't have the crazy gang member culture that we unfortunately have. That's where most of the "gun related violence" comes from. Yep. It is the elephant in the room. I find it especially funny when libs like to try to use Japan, who has a largely homogeneous culture that puts far more stock in things like "honor" than the segments of our society that cause the lions share of "gun violence" statistics. There really is two Americas, one of which tries its hardest to emulate the 3rd world. If you look at rural/suburban America, where I would guess at least half of house holds own or have access to firearms, the crime (especially violent crime) rate is very low. It is the violent subculture that glorifies violence and crime the skews the statistics, but nobody wants to talk about that, and if you try to put the blame on those that are actively participating in said lifestyle, you are deemed a "racist." The problem is two fold because many on the left try their hardest to put the message out there of "anything bad that happens to you, anybody that disagrees with you, etc. etc. is only because they are racist/homophobic/misogynist" so you get people that A) have no desire to look inside themselves or their communities to fix what the real problem is, because it is who they are and if you don't like it you racist, and B) when things don't go their way, like the case of the shooter yesterday, they have a tendency to grow a deep, ill placed hatred of people because of perceived injustices, when in reality the problem more often than not relies inside them, and has nothing to do with their gender, skin color or sexual orientation. But a large portion of the success the left has politically is solely due to identity politics. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:32:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Australians should have used their guns to defend their gun rights.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:32:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Few people at the Lindt cafe might disagree.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:34:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...Which should never lead to Confiscation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Correlation doesn't equal causation. ...Which should never lead to Confiscation. Bravo to both of you. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:35:30 PM EDT
[#23]
The purpose of the 2nd amendment won't necessarily be seen over the course of decades. The timeframe for the true value test of the right to keep and bear arms is more likely in the range of centuries.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:37:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which a number of people could legally keep after 1996. Not all semi autos were confiscated or banned. Current Aussie law allows certain folks to keep their semi autos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you look at the number of guns imported into Australia prior to their ban, the turn in numbers look laughable. Only certain guns were banned in Oz They imported a lot of SKS, 10/22s, and M1 carbines. Which a number of people could legally keep after 1996. Not all semi autos were confiscated or banned. Current Aussie law allows certain folks to keep their semi autos. I think what he's saying, and it is actually the case, a lot of people didn't turn all their guns in, or register them. I know quite a few people here who have things they shouldn't. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:39:17 PM EDT
[#25]
The average firearm suicide rate in Australia in the seven years after the bill declined by 57 percent compared with the seven years prior. The average firearm homicide rate went down by about 42 percent. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:41:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Deleted
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:43:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Compare the rate of gun suicides to other forms of suicide including medical euthanasia.
People who wanna die will find a way. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:44:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haha. Good point and thanks for posting A quick glance (only looked at robberies) shows robberies skyrocketed after the ban. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And what the left doesn't want to address is that all other crime skyrocketed post ban: http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics.html Haha. Good point and thanks for posting A quick glance (only looked at robberies) shows robberies skyrocketed after the ban. And that knife use in homicides rose while gun use dropped. Because getting stabbed to death is a much more pleasant thought. 
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:44:40 PM EDT
[#29]
I saw a video stating that home invasions are higher ever since the ban. People are really only protected by their dead bolt on the door.
Wish i could remember the link... |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:44:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Article doesn't back up the title. They say that firearm homicides are down. Duh. What is happening to the actual homicide rate? Can you plot it on a graph and show where the confiscation occurred without having it marked for you?
Here's how the same program worked out in the UK: 
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:45:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck Vox. Here is one of their Tweets from this morning. The graphic used is from the National Industrial Recovery Act. 
http://i.imgur.com/GUJ3zMM.png 
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:46:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think what he's saying, and it is actually the case, a lot of people didn't turn all their guns in, or register them. I know quite a few people here who have things they shouldn't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you look at the number of guns imported into Australia prior to their ban, the turn in numbers look laughable. Only certain guns were banned in Oz They imported a lot of SKS, 10/22s, and M1 carbines. Which a number of people could legally keep after 1996. Not all semi autos were confiscated or banned. Current Aussie law allows certain folks to keep their semi autos. I think what he's saying, and it is actually the case, a lot of people didn't turn all their guns in, or register them. I know quite a few people here who have things they shouldn't. Oh that is the case but Australia still did not completely ban semi automatic firearms. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:47:59 PM EDT
[#33]
I'll take my chances here with our guns.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:48:38 PM EDT
[#34]
So there were about 2,600,000 guns out there, and they took up 650,000 of them.
They then correlate a drop in crime to that meager reduction, when there are still 1,950,000 out there, and those are known about. We know that there are a huge number never registered. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:50:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So there were about 2,600,000 guns out there, and they took up 650,000 of them. They then correlate a drop in crime to that meager reduction, when there are still 1,950,000 out there, and those are known about. We know that there are a huge number never registered. How many of those were semi autos? |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:54:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh look, Ezra Klein's crappy website. The Washington Post's Ezra Klein: "My friends on the right don’t like to hear this, but the Constitution is not a clear document. Written 100 years ago, when America had thirteen states and very different problems, it rarely speaks directly to the questions we ask it." http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ek13-e1390333052663.jpg |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:56:39 PM EDT
[#37]
They should have done what we did instead. Loosen up the gun laws, buy tens of millions of guns, and make it easier than ever to carry them. Then they could have enjoyed the drop in all violent crime we've experienced in the same time frame instead of just bragging about a drop in firearm homicides. You can't go a week without another story of Australian police confiscating home made machine guns from random criminals. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:04:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure that an infinitesimally small percent of American gun owners, who share that sentimentality would "use them". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so they didn't have to turn their guns in... but keeping them and getting caught with one would result in a severe punishment? I personally would go bury mine in a safe place and never say a fkn word bout it. If you feel it is time to bury them, it really is time to use them. I'm sure that an infinitesimally small percent of American gun owners, who share that sentimentality would "use them". Only took 3% the first go around. "Liberty before comfort" was their motto if I recollect. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:08:02 PM EDT
[#39]
What they found is a decline in both suicide and homicide rates after the NFA. The average firearm suicide rate in Australia in the seven years after the bill declined by 57 percent compared with the seven years prior. The average firearm homicide rate went down by about 42 percent. crazy. remove one tool and people will kill less with this tool. LoL geniuses ! |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:08:30 PM EDT
[#40]
"Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted." and tyranny went through the roof.  
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:13:53 PM EDT
[#41]
So the moral of the story is that vox carries the intellectual weight of a middle school essay.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:20:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the moral of the story is that vox carries the intellectual weight of a middle school essay. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My line in the sand is the 2a. I'm willing to die for that. Oh wait, it's the neeeeext line in the sand you're talking about....  |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:36:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck Vox. Here is one of their Tweets from this morning. The graphic used is from the National Industrial Recovery Act. http://i.imgur.com/GUJ3zMM.png  |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:36:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
President Trump won't let that shit happen here 
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:48:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Didn't Australia murder like 60,000 people after their confiscation.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:51:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Although some studies maintain that there was a decline in gun deaths, particularly suicides, in the country following the 1996 legislation, a 2008 report by the University of Melbourne that analyzed firearms deaths for a period of 100-years in Australia concluded that the new laws did not have any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. Others contend that any decrease in gun deaths is societal related and not due to strict gun control. "The full truth is that Australia’s close neighbor New Zealand – a country very similar to Australia in history, culture, and economic trends – has experienced an almost identical time period with no mass shooting events despite the ongoing widespread availability of the types of firearms Australia banned,” David Leyonhjelm, a Liberal Democratic Party member of the Australian parliament, wrote in a piece for the Australian Finance Review. http://www.guns.com/2014/06/16/australias-gun-ban-experiment-success-fact-or-fiction/ Hey, hey, hang on a minute, mate. NZ was colonized by missionarys, while Oz was started as a British Prison Colony. The British prisons were full, so to make room for new bad guys, they shipped the worst of the worst off to the biggest desert in the world, for life. And somehow they survived to become one of the most uber liberal countries ever. The major similarities between the two countries is both were originally British colonies, the English language, although Oz has fucked that up, too, and sheep. And there are no critters in NZ that will kill you, other than Samoans and Tongans, but Oz is just full of deadly critters, snakes, crocs and bugs. But, as the NZ Dept of Tourism says "Keep NZ Beautiful, visit Australia". |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 6:54:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Second Amendment has already been infringed upon significantly and you're still alive. Oh wait, it's the neeeeext line in the sand you're talking about....
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My line in the sand is the 2a. I'm willing to die for that. Oh wait, it's the neeeeext line in the sand you're talking about....
This. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 7:07:28 PM EDT
[#49]
My rights are more important than your feelings. End of story
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Posted: 8/27/2015 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, and the problem with a middle school essay is that you can use it for propaganda on people with a middle school intellect which is a large percentage of the US population. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the moral of the story is that vox carries the intellectual weight of a middle school essay. Very true. Middle school might even be generous. Brought to you by Carl's Jr. |
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