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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:51:51 AM EDT
I always did like the M60A3.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/raytheon-can-turn-old-american-made-m60a3-tanks-killing-16142 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:56:23 AM EDT
[#1]
"Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Wiki: In early February 1991, US Marines used 200 M60A1s of the 2nd Battalion drove north from Khafji, Saudi Arabia into Kuwait. In Kuwait, they encountered an Iraqi force of T-54/55, Type 69, and T-72 tanks at Kuwait City International Airport. The Marines won this battle, destroying some 100 Iraqi tanks with only one M60A1 lost |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:58:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. It's being updated with the Abram's 120mm smoothbore cannon, digital fire-control system, and a 950 horse power diesel engine. 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 9:59:35 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:00:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Group buy?
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:01:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's being updated with the Abram's 120mm smoothbore cannon, digital fire-control system, and a 950 horse power diesel engine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. It's being updated with the Abram's 120mm smoothbore cannon, digital fire-control system, and a 950 horse power diesel engine. So they are hot rodding it? Hope they upgrade the suspension............ |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:02:53 AM EDT
[#6]
I miss the A1 we had
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:03:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I always did like the M60A3.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/raytheon-can-turn-old-american-made-m60a3-tanks-killing-16142 http://www.usabot.net/images/tanks/m60A3.jpg I want one ! |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:03:17 AM EDT
[#8]
I like it. Wish they would make a new tank though. The next war is probably not going to be in Europe. I'd like to see a smaller Sherman style tank that could be taken down for overseas or air transport, ready made to assemble quickly once a beach head has been established. I believe that large numbers of light easily transportable and easily rebuilt tanks would be better. I mean if we are going to seriously project force over seas, we should have a small tank that is purpose designed to be transported by barge and transport plane. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:05:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's being updated with the Abram's 120mm smoothbore cannon, digital fire-control system, and a 950 horse power diesel engine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. It's being updated with the Abram's 120mm smoothbore cannon, digital fire-control system, and a 950 horse power diesel engine. I wonder what the fuel range will be vrs the Abrams |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:06:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Neva been done before II
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:07:39 AM EDT
[#11]
That's pretty cool. Always liked the m60a3.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:09:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neva been done before II https://defense-update.com/images_large3/turkish_upgraded_m60a1.jpg Ha ha, WTF is that thing? 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:10:20 AM EDT
[#13]
The M60A1 would have been great if they had left that ridiculous mini turret off it and used a regular commanders cupola like the Israeli retrofits.
Mini turrets infested many of the 1950-1970 US armor designs and they are just worthless. 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:13:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's pretty cool. Always liked the m60a3. Same here. It has the classic "tank" silhouette like the Panther. I was stationed at Fort Hood in the early 80s when the 1st Cav and 2nd Armored division were there. When 2AD rolled out to the field they went as a division. Never saw so many tanks in one place at the same time.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:17:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Interesting.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:19:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Upgrade for WoT!
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:22:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I miss the A1 we had <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg</a> <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg</a> Sweet!!!! |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:23:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Wonder who the buyer would be....Taiwan?
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:25:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ha ha, WTF is that thing?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Neva been done before II https://defense-update.com/images_large3/turkish_upgraded_m60a1.jpg Ha ha, WTF is that thing?
An M60, upgraded. 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:26:44 AM EDT
[#20]
How about an upgraded M67 Zippo tank version?
Something about ISIS running in circles while on fire makes me happy inside. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:27:30 AM EDT
[#21]
 M60 Israeli |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:27:33 AM EDT
[#22]
The M60A3 is cool and all but I want a tank with a proper boiling vessel so make mine a Chieftain.
Oh I guess it attacks other tanks too. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:28:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Wiki: Quote HistoryQuoted: "Raytheon Can Turn Old American-Made M60A3 Tanks Into Killing Machines" Weren't they already killing machines? Still pretty effective too, USMC M60's raped Iraqi armor just about as hard as Abrams did. Hmm, wonder if there's a study comparing actual combat effectiveness between the two. Wiki: In early February 1991, US Marines used 200 M60A1s of the 2nd Battalion drove north from Khafji, Saudi Arabia into Kuwait. In Kuwait, they encountered an Iraqi force of T-54/55, Type 69, and T-72 tanks at Kuwait City International Airport. The Marines won this battle, destroying some 100 Iraqi tanks with only one M60A1 lost Iraqis - You can lead a horse to water... That and they were probably scared shitless going up against Marines |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:29:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryThe best part is always climbing on top of them |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:29:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's pretty cool. Always liked the m60a3. +1 It's the quintessential classic tank design IMO. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:35:23 AM EDT
[#26]
With modern technology a Sherman could be brought back and made into a killing machine.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:40:48 AM EDT
[#27]
It's the tank of my youth.
I think it can be upgraded and while it can never be the first line vehicle it once was, it is good for defensive measures. Hey, put them on our southern border. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:47:06 AM EDT
[#28]
I was in the 8th Engineer Bn, 1st Cavalry Division, at Fort Hood back in 81. Reagan was president and the military was going through a massive build up.
We had three of these AVLBs... it was all we could do to keep one of them running to tow the other two back from the field.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:54:41 AM EDT
[#29]
This was the last active duty M60A3 I saw. =( Nice brand new tracks on it too!
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:59:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was the last active duty M60A3 I saw. =( Nice brand new tracks on it too! <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kalski/media/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/kalski/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg</a> What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:59:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The best part is always climbing on top of them
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The best part is always climbing on top of them
Falling off is pretty fun too... Ask me how I know
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:01:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was the last active duty M60A3 I saw. =( Nice brand new tracks on it too! <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kalski/media/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/kalski/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg</a> What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Reactive armor mounts, I beleive. 
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:02:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reactive armor mounts, I beleive. http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m60a3_pettit_1cav_20051202_411_700.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This was the last active duty M60A3 I saw. =( Nice brand new tracks on it too! <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kalski/media/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/kalski/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg</a> What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Reactive armor mounts, I beleive. http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m60a3_pettit_1cav_20051202_411_700.jpg That makes sense... thanks. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:03:29 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:04:20 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was the last active duty M60A3 I saw. =( Nice brand new tracks on it too! <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kalski/media/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/kalski/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg</a> What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Mounting points for reactive armor. ETA Beat by 2 mins.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:07:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was the last active duty M60A3 I saw. =( Nice brand new tracks on it too! <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kalski/media/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/kalski/Vehicles/Picture028.jpg</a> What's with all of the little hedgehog spines on the turret? Just a guess, but I think those spikes would make unsophisticated ATGMs detonate before hitting the turret. Similar concept to the RPG netting on MATVs or slat armor on Strykers 
ETA- beat, and probably wrong. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:09:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question for our resident tank experts. Why does the barrel have that profile, with the larger diameter section? It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:40:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Question for our resident tank experts. Why does the barrel have that profile, with the larger diameter section? It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. I think I need one of those on my .308 AR. It is more than a bit overgassed.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:48:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Question for our resident tank experts. Why does the barrel have that profile, with the larger diameter section? It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. I have always wondered about the purpose of that larger part. Thank you!
ETA: Given that the M60 is diesel powered rather than turbine powered, is it more fuel efficient than the M1 Abrams tank? |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 11:57:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha ha, WTF is that thing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha ha, WTF is that thing? Heavily modified M-60. They Israelis have done this kind of mod on quite a few of them and also worked with the Turks on upgrading theirs. I recently saw a pic of one that survived an ATGM hit in Syria, so I guess the upgraded armor works as advertised. The Ratheon upgrade in the article seems rather underwhelming to me in the armor department. Adding on some slat armor isn't that much of an improvement compared to what has already been developed, and I don't think it is nearly enough to allow it to survive a modern tank v tank engagement. -K |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:03:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Ratheon upgrade in the article seems rather underwhelming to me in the armor department. Adding on some slat armor isn't that much of an improvement compared to what has already been developed, and I don't think it is nearly enough to allow it to survive a modern tank v tank engagement. I don't know about that, but for fighting in COIN it would probably be a better tank. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:08:22 PM EDT
[#42]
This is a really good idea, so good in fact that I fully expect it to be shelved.
I remember walking about the tank graveyard at Eglin AFB. They did not look that rundown to me. Rows upon rows of them just sitting there. I think the AF use some for base defense. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:08:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given that the M60 is diesel powered rather than turbine powered, is it more fuel efficient than the M1 Abrams tank? I'm not sure about the particulars of the engine but it can probably go 2-3 times as far on a gallon. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:10:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same here. It has the classic "tank" silhouette like the Panther. I was stationed at Fort Hood in the early 80s when the 1st Cav and 2nd Armored division were there. When 2AD rolled out to the field they went as a division. Never saw so many tanks in one place at the same time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's pretty cool. Always liked the m60a3. Same here. It has the classic "tank" silhouette like the Panther. I was stationed at Fort Hood in the early 80s when the 1st Cav and 2nd Armored division were there. When 2AD rolled out to the field they went as a division. Never saw so many tanks in one place at the same time. One of the coolest things I saw was a brigade of 2AD tanks driving in a column at NTC. A long, long column. The brigade commander says "Illinois" on the radio and every single tank turned 90 degrees right face on line. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:10:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ETA: Given that the M60 is diesel powered rather than turbine powered, is it more fuel efficient than the M1 Abrams tank? Very much so, but also louder, more visible exhaust, slower, weak acceleration and frequent drive train issues. Hopefully the new diesel fixes some of this without making it into the fuel hog the M-1 is. TBH, no idea why they're doing this, we have several thousand more or less brand new M-1s in storage, I can't imagine dropping a more frugal engine into them wouldn't be much more cost effective than replacing everything but the hull and turret on the M-60. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:15:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Question for our resident tank experts. Why does the barrel have that profile, with the larger diameter section? It is a bore evacuator that keeps smoke from coming back into the hull. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:16:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very much so, but also louder, more visible exhaust, slower, weak acceleration and frequent drive train issues. Hopefully the new diesel fixes some of this without making it into the fuel hog the M-1 is. TBH, no idea why they're doing this, we have several thousand more or less brand new M-1s in storage, I can't imagine dropping a more frugal engine into them wouldn't be much more cost effective than replacing everything but the hull and turret on the M-60. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ETA: Given that the M60 is diesel powered rather than turbine powered, is it more fuel efficient than the M1 Abrams tank? Very much so, but also louder, more visible exhaust, slower, weak acceleration and frequent drive train issues. Hopefully the new diesel fixes some of this without making it into the fuel hog the M-1 is. TBH, no idea why they're doing this, we have several thousand more or less brand new M-1s in storage, I can't imagine dropping a more frugal engine into them wouldn't be much more cost effective than replacing everything but the hull and turret on the M-60. Overseas sales.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:18:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question for our resident tank experts. Why does the barrel have that profile, with the larger diameter section? bayonet mount - nothing scarier than a tank with a big assed knife sticking out in front of it.
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:18:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very much so, but also louder, more visible exhaust, slower, weak acceleration and frequent drive train issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very much so, but also louder, more visible exhaust, slower, weak acceleration and frequent drive train issues. My understanding is that the newer diesels solve a lot of problems. Quoted:
Hopefully the new diesel fixes some of this without making it into the fuel hog the M-1 is. This engine has only 70% of the power, so even at the same specific consumption it would use less fuel. Quoted:
TBH, no idea why they're doing this, we have several thousand more or less brand new M-1s in storage, I can't imagine dropping a more frugal engine into them wouldn't be much more cost effective than replacing everything but the hull and turret on the M-60. Client states. We exported a lot of these. And the idea of putting a new engine in the Abrams is a good one. The LV 100-5 was a great new turbine that produced the same power with 50% less fuel consumption, 64% less downtime and 3,000 hours between overhauls rather than 750-1000. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 12:19:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I miss the A1 we had <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/855D906A-0015-43A2-AD58-AC8572193616_zpslsas4l6u.jpg</a> <a href="http://s487.photobucket.com/user/oscardeuce/media/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr232/oscardeuce/DDFA2BE7-EE3A-400B-8A19-97071FD10AC1_zpsrpxfmarp.jpg</a> Looks like a needle-nose? Did it have the RISE upgrade? |
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