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Posted: 3/3/2017 1:20:25 AM EDT
Sikorsky Pitches Area 51 Security Helicopters to Guard ICBMs
http://www.defenseone.com/business/2017/03/sikorsky-pitches-area-51-security-helicopters-guard-icbms/135782/ 
How can the U.S. Air Force finally end its decade-plus quest to replace the 1960s-era Huey helicopters that guard its Midwestern ICBM fields? Sikorsky has a new pitch: buy more of the Black Hawk variant that supports Area 51. Formally designated the HH-60U, the helicopter already flies in the Air Force’s “Ghost Squadron”, a unit that supports missions at the Nevada Test and Training Range and the top-secret Air Force testing base near Groom Lake known as Area 51. Lockheed Pitches HH-60U “Ghost Hawk” as Huey Replacement http://aviationweek.com/defense/lockheed-pitches-hh-60u-ghost-hawk-huey-replacement Lockheed Martin has unveiled a surprise play for the U.S. Air Force’s UH-1N Huey Replacement program, offering the secretive Sikorsky HH-60U “Ghost Hawk”, which the service has been flying since 2011 for special search and rescue missions. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 1:24:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Did somebody say gu, gu, gu, ghost???
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Posted: 3/3/2017 1:37:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Needs some gu, gu, gau-8.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:00:23 AM EDT
[#3]
That'll be pretty expensive. Although the maintenance costs on the old Huey's must be getting up there now.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:01:21 AM EDT
[#4]
They need to replace their normal Pavehawk fleet too. They are worn out, corroded, and broken as fuck.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:03:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Is that similar to a ghost gun?
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:04:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did somebody say gu, gu, gu, ghost??? Zoiks! |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:13:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Spendy, but not as spendy as going through another F-35 type program to get something just for ICBM silos.
They exist already, I don't see a downside, assuming all the capabilities needed are present. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:40:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Needs some gu, gu, gau-8. I'd be okay with the nuke security guys getting the UH-60m DAP 
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:45:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd be okay with the nuke security guys getting the UH-60m DAP
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/34/c5/bf/34c5bf65d0dfd7036b405e630056b2ce.jpg http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/night-stalkers/mh-60l-dap-bg.jpg |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 3:15:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that's pretty badass. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 3:43:28 AM EDT
[#11]
God, we were promised this back in 2009. Those Huey's are struggling. We had a guy show up for a Vietnam Veteran's Open House and got all tripped out when he (Army helo mechanic) recognized the tail number on one of them. Those things struggle with maintenance and some other issues. It'd be really nice if they bought these but like I said, promised before.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 4:16:48 AM EDT
[#12]
The Air Force is fucking retarded.
N model Huyeys. And they're bitching! The rest of the world use Y-model 4-blade birds now. Fucking buy that. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 4:21:22 AM EDT
[#13]
From what I understand, the 60U is not the greatest helicopter.
There were a few users who hated them because performance sucked. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 4:25:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Whiteman Afb has a memorial for a Huey that crashed killing the crew and fire team doing icbm security prior to my arrival in 1985. Long time ago.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 4:32:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to replace their normal Pavehawk fleet too. They are worn out, corroded, and broken as fuck. We are, with HH-60Ws. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 6:37:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Don't know much of anything about helos, but I was at Ft. Polk, La for a bit and they had a few old hueys in a hangar getting stripped down before being turned over to the USAF. One had obviously seen some action somewhere, and as the mechanic peeled away a skin patch we were all shocked to see that it was in fact made from an old beer can...
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Posted: 3/3/2017 6:46:59 AM EDT
[#17]
If only there was a modern helicopter that would fill the old hueys role perfectly. If only.....
 Attached File |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 7:40:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Air Force is fucking retarded. N model Huyeys. And they're bitching! The rest of the world use Y-model 4-blade birds now. Fucking buy that. What's wrong with buying Bell 412s off the shelf ? |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 7:48:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that's pretty badass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd be okay with the nuke security guys getting the UH-60m DAP
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/34/c5/bf/34c5bf65d0dfd7036b405e630056b2ce.jpg http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/night-stalkers/mh-60l-dap-bg.jpg 
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Posted: 3/3/2017 7:52:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If only there was a modern helicopter that would fill the old hueys role perfectly. If only..... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/210720/300px-U-157797.JPG
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Posted: 3/3/2017 7:59:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too much power, too much speed, too much lift capacity, and doesn't cost enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If only there was a modern helicopter that would fill the old hueys role perfectly. If only..... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/210720/300px-U-157797.JPG Nope. That piece of shit doesn't have the payload capacity, range, or lifting capability that is required. Which is why bell didn't even bother offering it. The USMC's boutique heli is a boondoggle and nobody else will buy that POS. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:13:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Couldn't you fill this role with a simple Jetranger or similar?
How much capability do you need to circle a hole in the midwest? |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:17:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Couldn't you fill this role with a simple Jetranger or similar? How much capability do you need to circle a hole in the midwest? The RFP is actually damn near impossible to do with an off the shelf helicopter. They want to carry 6 pax to a pretty significant distance, in terrible weather, lots of other details that are hard to meet. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:21:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The RFP is actually damn near impossible to do with an off the shelf helicopter. They want to carry 6 pax to a pretty significant distance, in terrible weather, lots of other details that are hard to meet. Fair enough - Is the RFP real need or just "I wish our mission needed this but 99% of the time it needs a Jetranger"? Ospreys for everyone! 
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:23:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fair enough - Is the RFP real need or just "I wish our mission needed this but 99% of the time it needs a Jetranger"? Ospreys for everyone! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The RFP is actually damn near impossible to do with an off the shelf helicopter. They want to carry 6 pax to a pretty significant distance, in terrible weather, lots of other details that are hard to meet. Fair enough - Is the RFP real need or just "I wish our mission needed this but 99% of the time it needs a Jetranger"? Ospreys for everyone! Perfection is the enemy of good enough.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:45:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to replace their normal Pavehawk fleet too. They are worn out, corroded, and broken as fuck. They are with the HH-60W's |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:46:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
God, we were promised this back in 2009. Those Huey's are struggling. We had a guy show up for a Vietnam Veteran's Open House and got all tripped out when he (Army helo mechanic) recognized the tail number on one of them. Those things struggle with maintenance and some other issues. It'd be really nice if they bought these but like I said, promised before. Why would an Army mechanic recognize a tail number for an aircraft the Army never flew? They only flew the single engine birds, not the two engine ones like the USAF and USMC |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:47:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to replace their normal Pavehawk fleet too. They are worn out, corroded, and broken as fuck. they need to stop using 0 hour pilots to do that mission, but thats besides the point. This seems like a good mission for that fucking lakota. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:49:23 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If only there was a modern helicopter that would fill the old hueys role perfectly. If only..... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/210720/300px-U-157797.JPG blackhawks would probably be cheaper to buy and much more capable. marines wasting money to be different is funny and all... |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:15:30 AM EDT
[#30]
The AH60L/S70 Battle Hawk built for the Australian competition seems to fit the role nicely.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:33:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
blackhawks would probably be cheaper to buy and much more capable. marines wasting money to be different is funny and all... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If only there was a modern helicopter that would fill the old hueys role perfectly. If only..... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/210720/300px-U-157797.JPG blackhawks would probably be cheaper to buy and much more capable. marines wasting money to be different is funny and all... Blackhawks don't have parts interchangeability with Cobras. They kept on keeping on with it since Congress told them to fuck off when they asked for Apaches. Twice. People conveniently forget that. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:40:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they need to stop using 0 hour pilots to do that mission, but thats besides the point. This seems like a good mission for that fucking lakota. Silly rabbit, Lakotas are for DSCA. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:47:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they need to stop using 0 hour pilots to do that mission, but thats besides the point. This seems like a good mission for that fucking lakota. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They need to replace their normal Pavehawk fleet too. They are worn out, corroded, and broken as fuck. they need to stop using 0 hour pilots to do that mission, but thats besides the point. This seems like a good mission for that fucking lakota. Yeah, cause our pilots really have zero hours or experience when they deploy. 
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:56:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Wait, are they finally admitting to having the silent black helos?
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:04:50 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, are they finally admitting to having the silent black helos? Stealth is very important when flying conus. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:24:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, are they finally admitting to having the silent black helos? These aren't the ones from the Osama raid, although I wouldn't be surprised if there is shared tech from the "black" version to this one. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:49:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. That piece of shit doesn't have the payload capacity, range, or lifting capability that is required. Which is why bell didn't even bother offering it. The USMC's boutique heli is a boondoggle and nobody else will buy that POS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If only there was a modern helicopter that would fill the old hueys role perfectly. If only..... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/210720/300px-U-157797.JPG Nope. That piece of shit doesn't have the payload capacity, range, or lifting capability that is required. Which is why bell didn't even bother offering it. The USMC's boutique heli is a boondoggle and nobody else will buy that POS. They should buy 412s and be done with it. The whole program is a BS excuse to waste money. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:51:37 AM EDT
[#38]
thats one of the best platforms we have... all you have to do is put a new cool word in front of "hawk" and its like 10 times cooler than the last version...
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:03:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Straight from Scott Donnelly's mouth, the RFP was a rigged game to justify buying Blackhawks and nothing else, and Bell wasn't going to play. They should buy 412s and be done with it. The whole program is a BS excuse to waste money. The Army and Navy both have large blackhawk fleets, why is it a waste to have commonality? |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:05:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Army and Navy both have large blackhawk fleets, why is it a waste to have commonality? Because the blackhawk is a combat aircraft designed to operate in hostile airspace. that incurs significant cost. unnecessary for a ferry flying around in permissive airspace conus. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:08:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the blackhawk is a combat aircraft designed to operate in hostile airspace. that incurs significant cost. unnecessary for a ferry flying around in permissive airspace conus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Army and Navy both have large blackhawk fleets, why is it a waste to have commonality? Because the blackhawk is a combat aircraft designed to operate in hostile airspace. that incurs significant cost. unnecessary for a ferry flying around in permissive airspace conus. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:11:53 AM EDT
[#42]
If only the Boeing company had proposed a wonderful replacement for the Pavehawk, that every single Pavehawk pilot I know wanted to fly..
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:12:55 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, cause our pilots really have zero hours or experience when they deploy. Everyone has to have their first dust landing and deployment sometime... Its why we crew mix to mitigate risk. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:17:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone has to have their first dust landing and deployment sometime... Its why we crew mix to mitigate risk. more to the point, in theory, they fly much more demanding missions than straight medevac or assault. I watched the 212th train again and again on basic helicopter stuff that the army only did on new warrants and LTs. so their time to train on more advanced skills (and on the airframe) take a backseat. slamming your 20 year old helicopter on the deck over and over getting comfortable with basic assault approaches isn't good for an airframe I guess. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:23:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Army and Navy both have large blackhawk fleets, why is it a waste to have commonality? Commonality between services doesn't necessarily yield the best economy of scale for an individual service. Sure you can have all of the services order parts in bulk for blackhawks, but that means the Cobra loses the economies of scale the USMC gets from parts commonality between the Cobra and Huey, making the Cobra more expensive to maintain. The saves of adding more blackhawks to the overall fleet would have to be greater than the loss of saves and efficiency in having parts commonality between two of the helicopters the USMC operates. ETA: disregard - you were talking about the AF RFP - not maintaining the Huey in the USMC. Misread. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:27:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Commonality between services doesn't necessarily yield the best economy of scale for an individual service. Sure you can have all of the services order parts in bulk for blackhawks, but that means the Cobra loses the economies of scale the USMC gets from parts commonality between the Cobra and Huey, making the Cobra more expensive to maintain. The saves of adding more blackhawks to the overall fleet would have to be greater than the loss of saves and efficiency in having parts commonality between two of the helicopters the USMC operates. We all realize the USMC is going to waste money on stupid shit just to be different. I was wanting additional info on why the USAF would be better off with bell as suggested by the poster I responded to. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:28:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We all realize the USMC is going to waste money on stupid shit just to be different. I was wanting additional info on why the USAF would be better off with bell as suggested by the poster I responded to. Realized that afterward - misread the chain with all of the Huey/Cobra talk earlier - you have valid point. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:29:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Realized that afterward - misread the chain with all of the Huey/Cobra talk earlier - you have valid point. No problem. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:31:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the blackhawk is a combat aircraft designed to operate in hostile airspace. that incurs significant cost. unnecessary for a ferry flying around in permissive airspace conus. These are also going to provide lift for the response teams, correct? Seems like the blackhawk would be a good fit for that mission. Is it a matter of having multiple types of helicopters? |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:32:03 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to replace their normal Pavehawk fleet too. They are worn out, corroded, and broken as fuck. Kharn |
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