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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:18:57 PM EDT
[#1]
FBHO on 2!
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:19:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Good thing I stopped taking hydros after only a few days...
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:20:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doctors aren't famous for statistical literacy, but if you're saying the CDC is full of shit, how about showing your work? So, the article and study make the case that higher quantity initial prescriptions of opioids by a doctor correlate with an increased chance that a doctor will write more prescriptions for that patient? Well, no shit. Brilliant work gents. Is their next body of work going to correlate water to wet? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:23:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how many of those people had underlying mental issues? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:25:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Hmm. I was on them for almost 4 months straight when I was 15 and snapped both bones in my wrist. First 2 months, I wasn't even in a cast because my arm was too swollen. 3rd month once I got a cast on was a lower dose than the initial. 4th month was the doctor writing a different script weakly to wean me off of them.
Different surgery to repair a torn tendon and remove a cyst from the bone when I was 19 I was on them for 2 weeks. When I went in for a follow up, that doctor was hardcore trying to get me to take another prescription. I told her I was good just taking Ibuprofen, and didn't need the script. She wrote it anyway, and I threw it in the trash on the way out. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:25:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Every surgery patient I cut bones on gets 2 weeks of narcotics. Every single one of them gets cut off at 3 weeks. If they are hooked on narcotics at the year mark it's cause the docs are giving it to them.
As an aside, narcotic addiction is getting a LOT of funding right now as it is a hot topic... |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:28:05 PM EDT
[#7]
I was addicted to ARFCOM after 3 days.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:30:31 PM EDT
[#8]
I had a fairly major back surgery a few years ago and ended up on pain meds for almost 3 months.
Quitting sucked, not because I craved them but because the withdrawal made me feel like I had the flu for 5 or 6 days. I still have some of those pain pills left over that I keep for emergencies and have never been temped to go take one. I guess that I am lucky that I was able to get passed all that. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:33:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I was on 10mg oxycontin tabs for four months. 2 every 4 hours tapering off over three months to 1 every 8 hours. Oh, and oral slow release morphine every 12 hours. Now I'm taking two Tylenol in the morning and Mobic at night.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:39:46 PM EDT
[#10]
I was on them for years, the day I decided to quit was the greatest. I learned that i could drop a big healthy shit without eating 20lbs of high fiber fruits a week.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:40:04 PM EDT
[#11]
I just had surgery. Was in so much pain they gave me Percocet every 4 hours and what I believe was Dilaudid every 4 hours (not at same time as Percocet), so I had a painkiller every two hours. It definitely helped, since I was able to have a drug induced slumber to where I could just tolerate the pain. I wasn't allowed to eat for three days, then my body started to adjust and I went to every 5 hours, six hours, twelve hours and then no more pain killers. Since getting out of the hospital I've used a total of one pain killer (only a quarter of a pill at a time).
Glad I'm off of it, but was thankful that it was available. I thought having a 5x7mm kidney stone was painful, but learned a whole new level of pain after this surgery. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:40:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I call bullsh*t. ETA: if you look at studies done on patients after they leave burn units (where the opioids flow like a mighty river), the number of people who turn into addicts is very small. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:41:31 PM EDT
[#13]
After my back surgery I was told take these vicodin regular to stay ahead of the pain. For two weeks you do this and then you go as needed. I am not a pain med person. Had two shoulder surgeries. Tonsils out when I was 35, didn't use pain meds. But since this was different I followed the Doctor's advice who also did my FIL's major back surgery. He is a very good doc. I took the minimum dose on time for two weeks.
I quit at two weeks. He told me to go as needed and I didn't need it. Shortly, I mean that same day, the sweats and the nausea came. I felt like hell, not pain but physiologically, for nearly a week. I stayed off the hydrocodone after that. I didn't feel the need to take anymore, but there was no doubt I was detoxing from it to some degree. That small degree was enough for me to see how some people could get hooked on it. I have never taken anything at home stronger than hydrocodone. And I will not take it for more than a day. I am not sure that title is accurate, but I can see how people get weak and succumb to it. I just live with whatever pain the occasional naproxen or ibuprofen can't handle or take the edge. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:42:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Completely depends on the person. I had an ACL rebuilt and after a month of that shit I was a full blown addict and had nasty withdrawals afterwards when they cut me off.
6 weeks ago my coworker had a crawfish pot knocked over on him and he had second degree burns down his legs and all over his feet with tons of skin grafts. He quit them on his own after 4 weeks because he said he didn't like the way they made him feel. I have an addictive personality, from booze, women, tobacco, pills, and on and on. I get hooked on everything and I had to quit drinking completely dry for 5 years to get that under control. The pills got me twice from prescriptions from injuries. Smoking was a bitch to kick even though I didn't so much have withdrawals from the nicotine, it was the habit of smoking that got me and on and on. Others don't have those issues. Studies like that don't really cover everything and everyone. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:44:06 PM EDT
[#15]
After being on Percocet for 3 months after a bad disc/nerve injury I could see how people could get addicted to it. It's funny how people's bodies react differently as some on here have bad reactions to opioids. For me it they felt like being wrapped in a warm blanket combined with a rush of euphoria and happiness that lasted about 1-2 hours. Think of an alcohol buzz but 10 times better, sharper and cleaner without any impairment (still being able to think and operate clearly to a much better extent). It was also the only thing that made the pain tolerable enough to move around and do physical therapy. Ibuprofen didn't do shit.
I was able to stop cold turkey right after. Still have about 15 pills. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:46:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Bad car wreck 4 years ago, have a couple pain killers....scared to death of getting addicted so my solution has been to only use them when I just can't deal with the pain anymore...they never stop the pain, they just make it more bearable..I have noticed after even as short as a week of using them, I noticably feel worse as I come off them...takes days to weeks to get over that for me...I can understand how people get addicted to em, but I don't understand why people let themselves...
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:49:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh, docs are known quite well for statistical literacy--research and reading the research are major parts of our training. Of course one must be skeptical of the CDC--it has become a political organization that fits "research" to political positions. For example, the CDC on guns as a disease and supporting more gun control. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh, docs are known quite well for statistical literacy--research and reading the research are major parts of our training. Of course one must be skeptical of the CDC--it has become a political organization that fits "research" to political positions. For example, the CDC on guns as a disease and supporting more gun control. 
The findings: a coin flip does better on a true/false question about p-values than a population of doctors. The takeaway: It was notable that those who answered the positive predictive question correctly rated their statistical literacy training more poorly than those who answered the question incorrectly. In other words, residents who need additional statistical literacy training may be the least likely to recognize the inadequacy of their training. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:49:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every surgery patient I cut bones on gets 2 weeks of narcotics. Every single one of them gets cut off at 3 weeks. If they are hooked on narcotics at the year mark it's cause the docs are giving it to them. As an aside, narcotic addiction is getting a LOT of funding right now as it is a hot topic... |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:49:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Whether it's alcohol or opioids or anything else, people with addictive personalities are going to become addicts.
I've had surgeries and sciatica, and several other things that required pain mess for more than 10 days. Never had a problem stopping. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:53:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whether it's alcohol or opioids or anything else, people with addictive personalities are going to become addicts. I've had surgeries and sciatica, and several other things that required pain mess for more than 10 days. Never had a problem stopping. I was able to stop even though I will admit the feeling from them was amazing. I guess it's just self-control and other factors. I know and seen first hand where addiction can lead. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:57:10 PM EDT
[#21]
I was on phentynol IV for 6 days in China for a kidney stone. I thank God they make that stuff, but I certainly don't want to feel like a zombie for fun. I've got too much to do in life than to be a vegetable. Which is why I think most junkies end up being junkies. They have nothing to live for. They would rather be a vegetable than to deal with life and all of its ups and downs.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:06:03 PM EDT
[#22]
unless you are not an addict, I had quite a few pain pills on hand in the last 25 years, only took as needed
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:13:07 PM EDT
[#23]
So, as every day passes, more of the population becomes weak willed and self serving, with no willpower or self control?
Imagine that. 1 out of 5, though? Someone's cherry picking data. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:21:23 PM EDT
[#24]
I've got a chronic spinal and I've had quite a bit of experience with opiates, haven't taken any in a couple years. I've never had any trouble with addiction and my body loves that shit.
I think most of what we think we know about addiction is wrong. I don't think there are addictive personalities. There are plenty of people who are highly susceptible to one addiction and not at all to any others. A ten day script for painkillers isn't going to turn anyone into a junkie unless they want to be a junkie. There might be an "Oh wow this stuff makes me feel better" factor but that's it. If they're handing people longer scripts and it's resulting in their still being on it a year later it's probably because it's a chronic condition that prompted the script. The common thread in all self destructive behaviors is people who don't value their lives or have hope for their future, whether that plays out as drugs, crime, abuse, risky sex, whatever. People who aren't self-destructive can drop any physical addiction from pain management pretty easily, a big chunk of the disparity you see in the numbers is correlation between chronic health problems and hopelessness. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:22:16 PM EDT
[#25]
I had no trouble staying off them after my shoulder reconstruction, but I can see how someone who really wanted to be high all the time would have trouble putting them down. Personally, I don't care for the feeling. Strong stuff.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:22:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Been on them for 5 years and I take them rarely anymore. If I watch what I do and for how long I can go for weeks at a time without them. I know some get addicted but I have always had the potential locked in my mind and I was not going to be one.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:23:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That doesn't seem to work with heroin junkies. Overdose, die. Narcan brings you back. Overdose again(sometimes within a day or 2, lather-rinse-repeat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Probably due to operant conditioning in the burn ward. "Here, take these pills/this iv narcotic and then in a few minutes, we'll peel your scabs and dead skin off, debride to healthy tissue, and then scrub your wounds." Overdose, die. Narcan brings you back. Overdose again(sometimes within a day or 2, lather-rinse-repeat. Really the only way to test the hypothesis is to burn the fuck out of - I mean, wait for a horribly burned junkie to show up in a hospital - and then see if they still like junk after discharge from the burn ward. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:23:58 PM EDT
[#28]
The only "buzz" I ever got from pain meds was when they gave me a shot of 4 mg dilaudid before kicking me to the curb with a 6mm kidneystone.
I wanted to walk out, but the girl made me sit in the wheelchair for the shot. If I hadn't been sitting down I would have fallen down, it made my eyes water. Apparently that was enough to calm a horse. Every other narcotic I've ever received just put me to sleep, and I hate feeling sleepy. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:27:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Had a few prescriptions for various things that went over ten days. I guess I'm lucky.
Stop using narcan and the heroin problem solves itself. Hard to sell drugs when all your customers are dead. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:01:15 PM EDT
[#30]
It really sucks for the folks who need them and for the majority of the population who don't have issues with addiction. I'm all for educating folks about the dangers/risks then giving them basically what they want. Most folks take what they need then stop and that's the end of it. For the rest, well they're going to find something to fill that void.
<--- Been on pain meds for up to a month following orthopedic surgery on more than one occasion and each time I just quit when I didn't need them anymore. It sucked for a day or two then I went back to my normal life which included random drug screening and access to various controlled substances with no issues. I actually need another surgery and I'm a bit worried that if I go back to the US to have it done that the new laws are going to make it harder to get decent meds. 
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:06:42 PM EDT
[#31]
I like opioids. For me they are really good at pain relief, far more than over-the-counter stuff (as they should be). They make me feel similar to I do when a bit drunk - so that's a nice buzz. When taking them, I made sure not to do it around the time I was driving, as I didn't feel all that competent driving under the influence of Oxy. Instead I'd take it after I got to work, so it would kick in after my drive and be worn off by lunchtime.
I suspect 'addiction' to them involves: 1. People in pain who need strong painkillers 2. People whose lives suck When life is good and you feel fine, where's the motivation to do a line of cocaine? When you're miserable and that white powder might make life seem okay for a few hours, why not? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:08:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Data is flawed, or made up entirely to promote someone's agenda. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:12:30 PM EDT
[#33]
The pain killers I had after surgery were great, especially when the doc prescribed me 10mg pills and told me to cut them in half to make 15mg and 5mg doses as necessary to ween myself down. Those cut pills fucked me up pretty good, and I could totally see how people could get addicted to that. IIRC I had 14 days worth of pills.
Kharn |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:22:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had shoulder surgery over Christmas. Was prescribed hydros along with other stuff. Went two days on the hydros and quit. Dunno how anybody can enjoy that kinda shit. Taking opiates as prescribed is not at all like taking recreational doses. Two totally different things It's like taking a bite of a cow's ass and proclaiming you don't understand how anyone enjoy steak |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:28:27 PM EDT
[#35]
As near as I can tell there are some people that are "primed" for opiate addiction, like maybe there is a short circuit in their own endorphin production. Those of us with normal endorphin production have been on a form of opiates all our lives, literally. So they are not some big surprise when we get a prescription. I know I make my own. I can feel them after running, working out, a big injury and so on. I'm pretty sure I make a healthy dose since I don't seem to mind doctoriing my own wounds, getting hurt having fun and so on. With stitches and debriding I might have a drink first to take the shakes off... And lots of folks here know what I am talking about. But imagine that was not your world at all. The first time you had opiates was literally the first time you felt like that. Like you do after a good run or shaking off an injury and so on.
I had opiates once (Percodan) after wisdom teeth removal. I didn't like them and only took them a quarter at time when the prescription said to take two. They were good at taking away the grinding pain (and it wasn't that bad... Just always there for a week or so) in the evenings so I could sleep. But during the day I survived on tylenol since they messed up my thinking at work. I think I used maybe a third of the prescription. Years after I used a few more when I had some horrible stomach flu. But if I had never felt that way ever before taking them... It might have been different for me. Or if your self medication skills are poor. It's been a kind of depressing weekend so I took 2, 30 mile bike rides and hit the gym this evening for a run and weights. Felt a lot better after each. But imagine a world in which you felt just as shitty after exercise as before? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:38:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a fairly major back surgery a few years ago and ended up on pain meds for almost 3 months. Quitting sucked, not because I craved them but because the withdrawal made me feel like I had the flu for 5 or 6 days. I still have some of those pain pills left over that I keep for emergencies and have never been temped to go take one. I guess that I am lucky that I was able to get passed all that. In most cases you have to take several times the prescribed dose to have euphoric affects. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:42:41 PM EDT
[#37]
I have learned that studies can be designed to show almost whatever the designer wants them to show. A few great examples of this are studies over the past few years saying that coffee is good for you, and another study says coffee is bad for you.
Although it is a given that opioids can be addictive, and will cause physical dependence of consumed long enough, I keep in mind old tobacco studies saying tobacco wasn't bad for you. Obviously tobacco is bad for you, my point is that where the will exists, a study can be designed to prove most theories. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:43:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it was luck. Taking opiates as prescribed, while it can result in some level of physical addiction, rarely rests in mental addiction. In most cases you have to take several times the prescribed dose to have euphoric affects. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:05:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got euphoric effects from only 5mg of oxycodone. I think at one point when the pain was really bad I took 10mg and that felt pretty extreme. I can't imagine taking more than that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think it was luck. Taking opiates as prescribed, while it can result in some level of physical addiction, rarely rests in mental addiction. In most cases you have to take several times the prescribed dose to have euphoric affects.
I only ever tried it maybe 10 or so times I can see how someone who is depressed or whatever could very easily give in to temptation. I mean if your life is shit why not just take a pill that makes you feel great? It's been a long time since I had any recreationally, since I'm not 20 years old and partying all the time I don't run into people with a fistful of pills very often
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:07:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Have taken that stuff for longer than that like several on here. Half way through day 2 sucks, constipation, audio sensitivity which makes me cranky..............and just gets worse. Cant see how folks crave that stuff.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:10:41 PM EDT
[#41]
IIRC, it was about 10 days after my surgery that i really started clock-watching and getting fidgety about dose time.
scared the fuck out of me, so i went down to the pharmacy and canceled my refills. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:36:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Personal experience tends to agree with that, the effects of narcotics on people varies greatly. 20% might be predisposed.
With a 222. Me, they do nothing for pain and give me an upset stomach. Wife, sitting on the couch, staring at the wall with a half smile for an hour then a nap. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:44:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Bullshit.
My gf had two separate whole knee replacements [very ick]. I managed her meds 100% to the label. I made a chart and I had a digital timer: every dose was within 15 minutes of the prescribed schedule. She did not become a junkie. In fact, she quit taking her meds several days early. I do not, 100%, believe in the bullshit cited in OP's article. That article is bullshit. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:46:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Another way to look at it....
If you suffer a serious injury or undergo surgery, there is a 20% chance you will not fully recover.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:48:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Bull fucking shit.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:02:58 AM EDT
[#46]
I tend to believe there are definitely people who are more inclined to develop physical/substance addictions than others.
There are undoubtedly folks with personalities that are much more likely to develop behavioral addictions (gambling, sex, video games, exercise etc.). I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who don't typically develop physical addictions easily. I simply don't like feeling 'off'. I quit drinking completely, 6 months after turning 21, I've never smoked or done any kind of drugs (never even tried pot despite numerous offers from friends who smoke it). I guess my parents did something right because neither me nor my brother ever felt the desire/need to try any of it. Been on opioids twice. Both times for more than 10 days. The first was a bad abscessed tooth where the first 2 antibiotics didn't work. The 2nd was earlier this year after surgery. The first time, I hated the Percocets I was prescribed because they made me nauseous, so they switched me to Norco which took the edge off enough to leave me functional. After the surgery earlier this year, I specifically asked for Norco, recalling the nausea from the Percocets years ago. Well, the Norco couldn't bring the post-op pain down enough to allow me to sleep, so after not being able to fall asleep for 3 days, I caved and got a scrip for Percocets which allowed me to get about 4 hours of sleep before they wore off. Two weeks on Percocets and I couldn't wait to get off them. I know some folks on the other hand, who crave that 'altered state' sensation and seem willing to try/use anything that can produce it, from alcohol to pot to pills, shrooms, acid and whatever else. Max |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:20:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they are hooked on narcotics at the year mark it's cause the docs are giving it to them. As an aside, narcotic addiction is getting a LOT of funding right now as it is a hot topic... |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:20:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Addiction is nothing but a series of poor choices. It's not any shape or form of a disease. The medical community has been treating addiction like a disease yet there is no cure because people choose to get high.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:26:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't gone over the data carefully, but I would suspect confounding variables. People don't get initial 10 day opoid prescriptions for minor things. 3 yrs ago the daughter of an aquaintance was prescribed 48 for the same procedure. A student at RPI, top shelf individual. Her parents haven't seen her for two yrs after her addiction took over. Yeah science bitches. 40 yrs and they couldn't of wouldn't create a non-addicting pain reliever. It stinks of money. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:29:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wired. I've had several surgeries from which I was on meds for a couple months. I actually was glad to quit. Not doubting the study though, I've seen people turn into pill heads pretty quick. |
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