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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:27:20 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd visit an attorney first
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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:32:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
It's specific to HVAC and plumbing. Very small. All plastic. Easily made and improves existing tools. Do you approach the supply houses or the makers of the tools? Visit youtube and learn how to file a provisional patent, you can do it for under $100 and it will protect you for a year. Part of this process is to conduct a patent search to see if it has already been filed by someone else. Next you want to see how much it costs for you to make, if it is inexpensive, you will need to find a mfg overseas... i.e. alibaba (sp) Once you have a mfg that quoted you a price, you can then approach the supply houses to see if they are willing to carry your item and what they think they can sell it for. Once you have done the above steps, you can figure out 1) your cost of mfg 2) how much you can sell it to the supply house for 3) your profit margin 4) make your go/no go decision. |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:32:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd visit an attorney first |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:39:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
It's specific to HVAC and plumbing. Very small. All plastic. Easily made and improves existing tools. Do you approach the supply houses or the makers of the tools? Then, you can find out how to make it and where to get parts for it. If anyone steals it, you can sue them. |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:41:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Go through Protomold. They can get you into production for way less than most plastic molders would charge.
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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:41:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Anticipated sales amount? Under half a million and it's not worth a patent, defending a patent is extremely expensive.
Go straight to a manufacturer that can make it, if you can't self-create them, and sell the design for royalties. |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 2:47:54 PM EDT
[#7]
I can't mass manufacture these and I'd think they would be pretty popular. Small, useful, disposable.
I like the royalties idea but I should have a pat pend first? |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 3:10:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't mass manufacture these and I'd think they would be pretty popular. Small, useful, disposable. I like the royalties idea but I should have a pat pend first? So... do some research on the patent website and see if there is already a patent.... watch youtube and get a patent pending going... it will cost you $100 and will give you one year to get a non provisional patent.... You don't need an attorney at this point... you need $100, some time watching youtube to learn how to submit a provisional (patent pending) application. |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 3:23:01 PM EDT
[#9]
FPNI, but as many have said, you're looking at $xx,000 to take a patent through to completion. Are you self-employed? If not, your employer may have claim to the idea anyway.
In the internet age patent searches are easy, HOWEVER, an attorney may tell you NOT to do one, so if you're serious, don't go doing crap on your own. |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 3:28:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS. and they'll want to patent it. bring any drawing/diagrams you have and a prototype if you have one. if it's plastic i'm sure you can have it 3D printed as a prototype. I actually worked with a guy who held a patent on something that was nonfunctional. Company gave him an award and a bonus. 
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Posted: 4/28/2017 3:38:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't mass manufacture these and I'd think they would be pretty popular. Small, useful, disposable. I like the royalties idea but I should have a pat pend first? |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 3:52:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
It's specific to HVAC and plumbing. Very small. All plastic. Easily made and improves existing tools. Do you approach the supply houses or the makers of the tools? Protect it and then go to someone like Sioux Chief? |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 3:53:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Throw it out the window and forget about it.... because without a way to manufacture and distribute them yourselves you're going to get trampled on/hosed by whoever you take it to.
IF you don't spend a ton of money on patents and lawyers and the like on the front end. |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 4:02:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Interesting thread. I'm in the same boat OP. I came up with an idea for a small, low cost product with a simple design recently as well. I haven't taken it to anyone yet, because the design is so simple I'm convinced someone with manufacturing capabilities would just steal it and mass produce before I could get anything accomplished.
I'm thinking hard about buying a cheap 3d printer and making a small batch to take out to end users so I can find out how viable of an idea it is. If the end users like it, then I could look for mass producers. I just know someone will rip me off though. 
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Posted: 4/28/2017 4:02:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Visit youtube and learn how to file a provisional patent, you can do it for under $100 and it will protect you for a year. Part of this process is to conduct a patent search to see if it has already been filed by someone else. Next you want to see how much it costs for you to make, if it is inexpensive, you will need to find a mfg overseas... i.e. alibaba (sp) Once you have a mfg that quoted you a price, you can then approach the supply houses to see if they are willing to carry your item and what they think they can sell it for. Once you have done the above steps, you can figure out 1) your cost of mfg 2) how much you can sell it to the supply house for 3) your profit margin 4) make your go/no go decision. Most don't realize how expensive marketing can be and that's what kills their product future. Jb |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:05:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Does ikickhippies still post here?
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:08:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Protect it and then go to someone like Sioux Chief? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:20:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Is it a dab of J-B weld stuck to the side of an existing product?
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:39:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Check with your local libraries and see if they have 3D printers available to the public. There are a few around here who do and it is very helpful.
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:51:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does ikickhippies still post here? He has an interesting tale of having his invention stolen. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:56:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it a dab of J-B weld stuck to the side of an existing product? |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:16:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Patent Attorney.
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:24:46 AM EDT
[#23]
I just did this over the last 3 years. Maybe you are a lot smarter than me, but I went down the "do your own provisional" road and had to throw in the towel. It gets hairy quick and has many pitfalls. I wasted a lot of time.
I spoke to a patent attorney and I could not afford the cheapest quote he offered. I ended up going with this guy. He's a patent agent. I did as much of the work as I could, like the drawings/descriptions and even gave him a draft of my paperwork that he helped me straighten out. I am patent pending now and selling my device. I spoke to some plastics companies. Having a jib made is very expensive. Mine would have been over 40K. I ended up having my parts machined. If your part is small, it may be affordable. The companies also quoted prices for getting the part made in China. It wasn't much cheaper. IM if you want. I just woke up, so I'm sure I could have made a better post. Good luck. ETA: Read the rest of the quotes. Mostly shitty advice. If you put your product out there with no provisional you will almost certainly fuck yourself if it comes to patent time. A question you have to answer is "has my product been shown in public" or something to that extent. Also, when you fuck up the provisional, it's gonna cost you way more money for your attorney/agent to straighten out your mess if trying to get the full patent, and depending on how it written initially, that can fuck you because there's some stuff that if not written correctly, can leave you product open to be copied. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:29:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Unless it's a MULTI million dollar in sales item. a patent/defending it, will cost more than you will make.
If it is, a foreign co will copy it and sell it anyway. Do the provisional pat. for short term protection, try and sell it to a mfg. Unless you have a way to quickly flood the market it will be copied quickly if it is that good of an idea. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:47:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting thread. I'm in the same boat OP. I came up with an idea for a small, low cost product with a simple design recently as well. I haven't taken it to anyone yet, because the design is so simple I'm convinced someone with manufacturing capabilities would just steal it and mass produce before I could get anything accomplished. I'm thinking hard about buying a cheap 3d printer and making a small batch to take out to end users so I can find out how viable of an idea it is. If the end users like it, then I could look for mass producers. I just know someone will rip me off though. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:47:56 AM EDT
[#26]
I would suggest a patent attorney and a trademark attorney. Buddy invented an awesome product that will make him a millionaire many times over. He put all his cash and sold all his stuff to get his company up and running. He did the patent process correct on his own, as far as I know and had no issue with the patent. He got R&D into his product, got it made with his logo and packaged. Only to hit market and receive cease and desist from 2 companies one for he logo and one for name. Big named lawyers from NYC.
His patent is still in tact but all his product and advertising and packaging had to be redone. He'll still get rich off of it but it damn near broke him, financially and mentally, having to start over. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:48:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless it's a MULTI million dollar in sales item. a patent/defending it, will cost more than you will make. If it is, a foreign co will copy it and sell it anyway. Do the provisional pat. for short term protection, try and sell it to a mfg. Unless you have a way to quickly flood the market it will be copied quickly if it is that good of an idea. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 10:57:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Thes is why you need to speak to a patent attorney/agent. My attorney meeting cost $200. Best money I spent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting thread. I'm in the same boat OP. I came up with an idea for a small, low cost product with a simple design recently as well. I haven't taken it to anyone yet, because the design is so simple I'm convinced someone with manufacturing capabilities would just steal it and mass produce before I could get anything accomplished. I'm thinking hard about buying a cheap 3d printer and making a small batch to take out to end users so I can find out how viable of an idea it is. If the end users like it, then I could look for mass producers. I just know someone will rip me off though. |
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Posted: 4/29/2017 11:16:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Good luck. BTDT many times. Getting a patent is easy. Production and distribution that yields a ROI is a bitch.
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Posted: 4/29/2017 9:03:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even if I have a provisional in place? This would be my first foray into inventing and honestly my idea is a for a niche market that really isn't going to be that lucrative. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting thread. I'm in the same boat OP. I came up with an idea for a small, low cost product with a simple design recently as well. I haven't taken it to anyone yet, because the design is so simple I'm convinced someone with manufacturing capabilities would just steal it and mass produce before I could get anything accomplished. I'm thinking hard about buying a cheap 3d printer and making a small batch to take out to end users so I can find out how viable of an idea it is. If the end users like it, then I could look for mass producers. I just know someone will rip me off though. A patent agent has extensive experience. As a nurse, I would say comparing an agent to an attorney is like comparing a associate degree nurse to a BS educated nurse. Anyone can do a provisional, but if things work out with your product, you most probably will be sorry you didn't have professional help doing it. By all means, find a template and start writing. That's what I did. For weeks. When I did see that I was over my head, it did provide a road map for the agent and help me get my shit straight. I wrote most of the application and he proofed it and added things to it. We passed it back and forth at least 4 times. He was worth every penny. I forgot how much it cost, but I don't think it was even 1500$. The attorney was $5500 for basic app and he said it would almost guarantee more work down the road since that was the most basic package he provided. I will probably have more work to do when it gets reviewed but I did all I could afford at the time and the money spent will save me money on the other end. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 8:14:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anticipated sales amount? Under half a million and it's not worth a patent, defending a patent is extremely expensive. Go straight to a manufacturer that can make it, if you can't self-create them, and sell the design for royalties. Hell, we HAD IP, NDA in place and in a field where stepping on IP toes brings big time pee pee slap and the company STILL tried to screw us. In the end they screwed themselves due to covert intel and CIP abilities. If you have no IP you have no design to sell, nor draw royalties from The only way to go to a manufacturer is to put them under NDA and give them a PO to make your stuff. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 8:21:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't mass manufacture these and I'd think they would be pretty popular. Small, useful, disposable. I like the royalties idea but I should have a pat pend first? USPTO defaults to "NO". You have to have a lawyer advocate, preferably one with good relations with USPTO examiners. They have to keep submitting and arguing that your device is new and novel. USPTO agents go back further than electronic records, so even though your record search may show no prior art, that doesn't mean there isn't any. Then you have the issue of USPTO examiner not understanding what they are examining, depending on how complex or nuanced your device or method is. Not trying to be a Debby Downer. I've walked this road for 15 years and between our group have many thousands of dollars invested. We have issued method and device patents that are disruptive to the field and still, the big players would rather continue with their inferior method and device. Biggest reason behind that is we don't have the capitol to go into manufacturing and that's what it takes to actually disrupt the field. Making out on IP is a little like becoming a famous musician. You don't see all the great ones that didn't make it through no fault of their own. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 8:25:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Thes is why you need to speak to a patent attorney/agent. My attorney meeting cost $200. Best money I spent. You make your device known and you're toast. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 11:37:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then you have the issue of USPTO examiner not understanding what they are examining, depending on how complex or nuanced your device or method is. |
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Posted: 4/30/2017 1:06:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep!!!! My employer abandoned one of my inventions rather than go through appeals on an examiner who clearly was misapplying another technical patent as prior art. This was for an invention not central to our business but which would have covered millions of dollars of products later developed in an adjacent space..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Then you have the issue of USPTO examiner not understanding what they are examining, depending on how complex or nuanced your device or method is. So you go deeper and invest more and deeper and invest more money and time and when you're up to your chest and the water is starting to spill into your waders, you're telling yourself, "Well, I'm this far in. Just a little further and I'm sure to land the big one". Except you don't realize that the river is rigged. The people who built your pole and tackle have trained the fish to lure you rather than the other way around. And the quagmire which is the USPTO is the river which doesn't care if you drown or spend all of your money. And the people who trained the fish and sold you the tackle will come along and sweep up what you don't have the resources to carry to the end. |
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