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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:16:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.300blk and he done with it 6.5G suppressed SBRs for infantry. 6.5G suppressed 16" for DMR. 6.5C for MGs. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:17:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why???? It isn't even as powerful as the 7.62X39?? Ballistics of a rock compared to other cartridges that will fit in an AR. I built one only because I shoot it suppressed subsonic. It's cool for that, but not as the main cartridge for our military.  300 AAC Blackout For Buffalo Harvest. On Animal Shot |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:20:25 PM EDT
[#3]
I really hope the 300 blackout people are trolling.
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:21:11 PM EDT
[#4]
the mil, ordered like 5 billion rds of 5,56 in the last few years......... the M4 not going anywhere
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:21:50 PM EDT
[#5]
I have it from a reliable source that the HK416 in 6.8 will be the next issued.
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:25:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope the 300 blackout people are trolling.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:25:17 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm going to start a petition to adopt the .375 H&H Mag as the standard round.
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:30:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would a projectile going 2600 fps (120 gr Grendel) burn a barrel out fast? (I may not be precise on the velocity but I'm not far off) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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DMR, maybe. Those 6.5 cartridges burn out barrels fast. (I may not be precise on the velocity but I'm not far off) |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:30:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Great, all of the sudden 6.5 is king. What's it going to be next month or next year?
But, but, but the .22, 25-06, 243, 260, 6.55, etc., etc., etc. can kill (insert pic of large game animal taken with caliber here). See I told you it's the best! |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:36:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope you 300 BLK doubters are simply doubting it because you're 5.56 fanbois. At least that would explain why you aren't paying attention to what the cartridge can do.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKLNIDPGI8 |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:38:03 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:41:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote History |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:46:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give me something that starts with 6.5. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:47:18 PM EDT
[#14]
This kind of stuff goes on in fits and starts over and over.
It is such a huge cost to outfit the whole military that any change has to have huge advantages on the field or in cost. It is a lot more than just having a new rifle for the present army but sufficient stock to allow for a much larger force should it be required. Luckily for the most part the mass armies of history are pretty unlikely. Longer range, accurate, and more powerful armaments can be brought to bear against a massed force. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:49:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol dude I have a 300 blackout. It's super fun shooting subs with a can but that's about it. Has the ballistics of a slow pitch soft ball. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I really hope you 300 BLK doubters are simply doubting it because you're 5.56 fanbois. At least that would explain why you aren't paying attention to what the cartridge can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKLNIDPGI8But in the end, 5.56 isn't going away any time soon. Though it may get some friends. The 6.5 family is coming out to be King, and I'll be surprised if it's not one of those. DOD is already buying LaRue's in .260 Rem. I like 6.5 CM as a civilian, but I bet Army's going to want the taper of a .260 Rem. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:51:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Buffalo says the gun magazine writer you're quoting is wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfU9bjMUaw8Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why???? It isn't even as powerful as the 7.62X39?? Ballistics of a rock compared to other cartridges that will fit in an AR. I built one only because I shoot it suppressed subsonic. It's cool for that, but not as the main cartridge for our military. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfU9bjMUaw8https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/what-22-rifle-did-bella-twin-use-to-kill-a-world-record-grizzly-in-1953/#axzz4ghQWRE9g |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:53:34 PM EDT
[#17]
The next big war will likely be in a large urban area. I can't think of one advantage 6.5C sized guns give in that environment. If it was me going to war, I'd want something with more ammo capacity than 5.56, lighter ammo, and flatter shooting if possible. Caseless 6mm maybe?
Once again, we're preparing for the last war, ignoring the future. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 1:58:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For everyone saying 300BLK: Are you guys trolling, or seriously retarded? Because 300BLK for an individual service rifle cartridge is pure retardation. You just cut your hit probability from 5.56 NATO way down, while reducing barrier penetration and armor defeat capability substantially. You also cut your effective range down. Why anyone would openly advocate for 300BLK for general issue is beyond me. It's a special application cartridge with a very limited role suppressed, to allow some of the same capabilities of the MP5SD for certain units, not a general issue infantry rifle cartridge. .300 BLK is utter retardation as a general issue round. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:00:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistorySomeone needs to brush up on the definition of what an intermediate cartridge is. Noone is saying the .300 BLK is a 500+ yard cartridge, and the last I checked I never heard anyone say the 5.56 is a 500+ yard cartridge either. At < 300 yards even your own chart says they are very close.
If you are shooting at a 1000 yard target then you use a 1000 yard cartridge. All this ballistic trajectory is saying is that both 5.56 and 300 BLK needs to be replaced by .308. Is that really what you're saying? |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:00:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope you 300 BLK doubters are simply doubting it because you're 5.56 fanbois. At least that would explain why you aren't paying attention to what the cartridge can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKLNIDPGI8 |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:17:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone needs to brush up on the definition of what an intermediate cartridge is. Noone is saying the .300 BLK is a 500+ yard cartridge, and the last I checked I never heard anyone say the 5.56 is a 500+ yard cartridge either. At < 300 yards even your own chart says they are very close. If you are shooting at a 1000 yard target then you use a 1000 yard cartridge. All this ballistic trajectory is saying is that both 5.56 and 300 BLK needs to be replaced by .308. Is that really what you're saying? We already have an awesome intermediate cartridge in the 6.8 SPC. Specifically designed for that purpose and with bullets that work on human sized targets. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:20:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone needs to brush up on the definition of what an intermediate cartridge is. Noone is saying the .300 BLK is a 500+ yard cartridge, and the last I checked I never heard anyone say the 5.56 is a 500+ yard cartridge either. At < 300 yards even your own chart says they are very close. If you are shooting at a 1000 yard target then you use a 1000 yard cartridge. All this ballistic trajectory is saying is that both 5.56 and 300 BLK needs to be replaced by .308. Is that really what you're saying? The chart shows at 300 yard the drop on 300 blk is 27.74 inches at a velocity of 1505 fps and energy of 629 ft*lb. 5.56 has a 300 yard drop of 14.49 inches at a velocity of 1969 fps and energy of 534 ft*lbs. 6.5Grendel has a 300 yard drop of 17.62 inches at a velocity of 1996 fps and energy of 1088 ft*lbs. So it would make no sense to change to 300BLK. If you had to change to something that uses the same length action, 6.5 Grendel makes a lot more sense than a 30 caliber cartridge that drops like a rock and has no energy left to push the larger bullet through a barrier. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:22:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine an M240 machine gun firing a projectile with the same or greater velocity as 7.62 but in a 1:8 twist instead of 1:12. That can cause greater friction and thus wear on the lands and grooves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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DMR, maybe. Those 6.5 cartridges burn out barrels fast. (I may not be precise on the velocity but I'm not far off) If you did double down on a 1950s design and chamber with a metallic case cartridge, the weapon would be like a Stoner 63, Stoner LMG, SAW, or Ultimax. Chamber pressure of 6.5 Grendel is way less than 7.62 NATO, as is case capacity. You just don't see throat erosion like 7.62 NATO, which isn't particularly fast unless you go cyclic. LSAT 6.5mm is where it's at for an LMG, with smaller case than the 7.62 LSAT, and lower working pressure. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:24:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. Good grief, people are suggesting a round they fire one at a time at 100 yards at a hog at night, is somehow a good choice for a combat rifle where full-auto recoil management and ability to hold a flat trajectory at "somewhere over there" distances is what matters? There is no way .300 blackout is anywhere near on-the-table for this. Not to mention, can you imaging changing standards to a new round that fits in a 5.56 chamber with some vigorous FA slamming, and will then blow up that gun? Holy shit. . I don't get why the military is even going to a new system. The whole reason why we've been using the current system for 50+ years is that no design has been found that does things better. They may be equivalent but that doesn't mean it's better. My money is on the .MIL trying out different systems and coming to the conclusion that spending money going to another cartridge that does exactly what the previous cartridge did will nix the whole program. This whole argument over .300 BLK (or 6.5 Creedmore or 8.8 Flugzeugabwehrkanone or whatever) is moot. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:24:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, because the US is going to suddenly ignore NATO standards. To my knowledge, the only NATO-standard calibers are 9mm, 5.56mm (.223 Remington), 7.62mm (.308 Winchester), 12.7mm (.50 BMG), and 25mm. I just don't see us issuing infantry weapons large-scale without pushing it through NATO. We push things onto NATO after, like with what we did with 7.62 "light rifle". |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:27:49 PM EDT
[#26]
I'll believe it when it happens.
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:30:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. .300 BLK is utter retardation as a general issue round. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:33:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In practical, non Mall ninja terms, can you explain your rationale for saying that? |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:35:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which part do you not understand? The MPBR is dependent on bullet and powder selection. 300 yard hits are easy as pie with a 125gr OTBT bullet. As to the rest, it is common knowledge that the BCG and Magazines ar identical between 5.56mm and .300 blk. As a matter of fact, a simple barrel and gas tube swap is all that is generally required to change calibers between the two. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the range on one of those, 50 yards? Why not just switch to 7.62x39? And with the .300blk, you can use the standard m16 bcg and magazines at full capacity The MPBR is dependent on bullet and powder selection. 300 yard hits are easy as pie with a 125gr OTBT bullet. As to the rest, it is common knowledge that the BCG and Magazines ar identical between 5.56mm and .300 blk. As a matter of fact, a simple barrel and gas tube swap is all that is generally required to change calibers between the two. The part I don't understand is how people are seriously advocating for such a pathetic rainbow trajectory cartridge for general use for Infantry and service-wide, when all the performance increases we have been looking for are the opposite of what 300 Whisper is. 300 yard hits are easy as pie with a .45-70 as well. Hitting head-size targets peeking out at you, or from windows in the urban fight within 150m, with a 300yd zero are not, whereas they are much easier with 5.56 NATO, because it's flat as sin. If you look at practical PBR, 300 Whisper is a turd. 5.56 NATO is excellent, only outdone by something with the same mv and higher BC. 300 Super bullets and BC are horrendous, not even runners-up to the minor leagues in this debate. 5.56 NATO is fine for carbines and riflemen, who are entry-level soldiers in the Infantry Rifle Platoon with very limited training, most of it garbage, unproductive. As you move through the duty positions in the Platoon, you star to encounter other weapon systems, starting with the SAW, which needs to be replaced with an LMG that weighs half as much, is more reliable, with lighter ammo, that has superior barrier defeat and range. The only system that meets those requirements is LSAT. Then you look at the M240. The main negatives about the M240 are weight, ammo weight, and 7.62 NATO. A 6.5mm LSAT would weigh less than half of an M240, with ammunition that is as light or lighter than linked 5.56 NATO, while exceeding 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R retained energy, drop, and wind drift from about 400m on out, with way less chamber pressure than 7.62 NATO, leading to longer barrel life. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:35:57 PM EDT
[#30]
All things will soon be .260/6.5 and .338. There's no use in fighting it, it's coming. .22/5.56 and .30/7.62 are dinosaurs. Embrace the new superior calibers.
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:38:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask the guys in Afghanistan about that when they're shooting from mountain ridge to mountain ridge. We already have an awesome intermediate cartridge in the 6.8 SPC. Specifically designed for that purpose and with bullets that work on human sized targets.  6.8 SPC is dead and buried for any military use. All hail the 6.5!!
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:38:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Buffalo says the gun magazine writer you're quoting is wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfU9bjMUaw8Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why???? It isn't even as powerful as the 7.62X39?? Ballistics of a rock compared to other cartridges that will fit in an AR. I built one only because I shoot it suppressed subsonic. It's cool for that, but not as the main cartridge for our military. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfU9bjMUaw8Head-shooting a large, docile animal at close range has almost zero relevant data for supporting a cartridge for general military use. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:39:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope you 300 BLK doubters are simply doubting it because you're 5.56 fanbois. At least that would explain why you aren't paying attention to what the cartridge can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKLNIDPGI8Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I really hope the 300 blackout people are trolling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKLNIDPGI8I do have doubts that people who advocate it for general military use know the first thing about what is needed in a dismounted light infantry unit. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:42:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In practical, non Mall ninja terms, can you explain your rationale for saying that? .300 BLK is good for using subsonic bullets in a very niche ninja warrior role. Other than that, it's an fairly mediocre round. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:42:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The graph is too difficult to read at a 300 yard distance because it was made for 1000 yards. You have to look at the tabulated figures. The chart shows at 300 yard the drop on 300 blk is 27.74 inches at a velocity of 1505 fps and energy of 629 ft*lb. 5.56 has a 300 yard drop of 14.49 inches at a velocity of 1969 fps and energy of 534 ft*lbs. 6.5Grendel has a 300 yard drop of 17.62 inches at a velocity of 1996 fps and energy of 1088 ft*lbs. So it would make no sense to change to 300BLK. If you had to change to something that uses the same length action, 6.5 Grendel makes a lot more sense than a 30 caliber cartridge that drops like a rock and has no energy left to push the larger bullet through a barrier. With the 90 gr , the drop at 300 yards is 12.8 inches, with a velocity of 1936fps, and energy of 749 ft/lbs. The 110gr which was offered in a few loads between 2650 and 2700fps , has a drop of 13.8" at 300 yards, velocity of 1973fps, and energy of 951 ft/lbs. One other to consider is the 140gr that was loaded at SSA, which had a MV of 2400fps from a 16" barrel ( all of these are from 16" barrels ) , which had a drop at 300 yards of 17.1", velocity of 1912fps, and energy of 1137 ft/lbs of energy. All of the above data is ammo that was sold on the retail market, not hand loads. The 6.8 is still extremely efficient from short barrels down to 10 inches. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:43:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask the guys in Afghanistan about that when they're shooting from mountain ridge to mountain ridge. We already have an awesome intermediate cartridge in the 6.8 SPC. Specifically designed for that purpose and with bullets that work on human sized targets. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:43:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The next big war will likely be in a large urban area. I can't think of one advantage 6.5C sized guns give in that environment. If it was me going to war, I'd want something with more ammo capacity than 5.56, lighter ammo, and flatter shooting if possible. Caseless 6mm maybe? Once again, we're preparing for the last war, ignoring the future. Rifleman Grenadier Automatic Rifleman/LMG Gunner Fire Team Leader Squad Leader Platoon Sergeant Platoon Leader Forward Observer Combat Medic Scout Sniper Combat Engineer Weapons Squad Leader Machinegunner Ammo Bearer Assistant Gunner Anti Armor Weapon Specialist |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:44:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
joglee thread |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:45:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
6.8 SPC is dead and buried for any military use. All hail the 6.5!!That said, either 6.8 spc II or Grendel is the way to go. Blackout needs to back out for supers and mil use. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:48:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Its seems that for the past 100 years, several countries have conducted numerous such tests, and all consistently concluded that .260-.270 caliber is superior.
Then they all chose a different caliber... |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:50:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The graph is too difficult to read at a 300 yard distance because it was made for 1000 yards. You have to look at the tabulated figures. The chart shows at 300 yard the drop on 300 blk is 27.74 inches at a velocity of 1505 fps and energy of 629 ft*lb. 5.56 has a 300 yard drop of 14.49 inches at a velocity of 1969 fps and energy of 534 ft*lbs. 6.5Grendel has a 300 yard drop of 17.62 inches at a velocity of 1996 fps and energy of 1088 ft*lbs. So it would make no sense to change to 300BLK. If you had to change to something that uses the same length action, 6.5 Grendel makes a lot more sense than a 30 caliber cartridge that drops like a rock and has no energy left to push the larger bullet through a barrier. The 6.5 Grendel with a 123gr is within 3" of it at 300yds for drop, but wind drift is less with 6.5mm/high BC. Retained energy and impact speed on target favor 6.5mm of any of the smaller bore cartridges with similar case capacities. You can exceed the 6.5 Grendel if you go up to a larger case pushing a 6mm at 2900-3100fps, but barrel life is now like a .243 Win.-not acceptable for a military rifle. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:51:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine an M240 machine gun firing a projectile with the same or greater velocity as 7.62 but in a 1:8 twist instead of 1:12. That can cause greater friction and thus wear on the lands and grooves. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:53:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if proven accuracy, proven reliability, and proven killing power out of a proven weapon design for proven combat ranges aren't sufficient standards for a service rifle then what is, exactly? The ability to rock and roll with the weapon while smoking a cigar and saying smug quotes like "I don't have time to bleed"? I don't get why the military is even going to a new system. The whole reason why we've been using the current system for 50+ years is that no design has been found that does things better. They may be equivalent but that doesn't mean it's better. My money is on the .MIL trying out different systems and coming to the conclusion that spending money going to another cartridge that does exactly what the previous cartridge did will nix the whole program. This whole argument over .300 BLK (or 6.5 Creedmore or 8.8 Flugzeugabwehrkanone or whatever) is moot. Hit potential with 300BLK is reduced compared to 5.56 within 300yds. The military has been wanting increased hit potential past 500yds. This is why 300BLK is dead on arrival from a military standpoint, outside of a very limited application among some units in SF who need to protect themselves when doing ADVON before their full ODA or Company deploy to a semi-permissive environment for both FID and UW. A little 6-8" Suppressed PDW with a folding stock that can be concealed under civilian clothes is what they want for some officers and senior NCOs when they go coordinate with their counterparts in a hots nation that has intermittent hostilities, not a combat rifle load for the infantryman. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:53:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know nothing about the 6.8 SPC so I can't comment on it one way or the other. If 6.8 SPC is that combat proven then why are they even fooling with 6.5 Creedmore? What does 6.5 Creedmore have over 6.8 SPC? I'm pretty sure these trials in which the .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor are being tested are to replace the 7.62mm M110. Not the 5.56mm M4. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:03:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
beat me too it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
joglee thread |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:06:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which part do you not understand? The MPBR is dependent on bullet and powder selection. 300 yard hits are easy as pie with a 125gr OTBT bullet. As to the rest, it is common knowledge that the BCG and Magazines ar identical between 5.56mm and .300 blk. As a matter of fact, a simple barrel and gas tube swap is all that is generally required to change calibers between the two. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the range on one of those, 50 yards? Why not just switch to 7.62x39? And with the .300blk, you can use the standard m16 bcg and magazines at full capacity The MPBR is dependent on bullet and powder selection. 300 yard hits are easy as pie with a 125gr OTBT bullet. As to the rest, it is common knowledge that the BCG and Magazines ar identical between 5.56mm and .300 blk. As a matter of fact, a simple barrel and gas tube swap is all that is generally required to change calibers between the two. If they want to increase range a little, 6 5g or a 223 case necked up to 6.5 or .277 could be an option, but then you have heavier loadouts and less controllable FA. 5.56 is pretty good. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:07:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope you 300 BLK doubters are simply doubting it because you're 5.56 fanbois. At least that would explain why you aren't paying attention to what the cartridge can do. You don't have to sell a 300 BLK suppressed SBR. You have to sell a 300 BLK belt fed LMG. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:13:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope you 300 BLK doubters are simply doubting it because you're 5.56 fanbois. At least that would explain why you aren't paying attention to what the cartridge can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKLNIDPGI8 |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:15:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In practical, non Mall ninja terms, can you explain your rationale for saying that? 300blk tends to do this much sooner than 5.56 or 6.5G. Granted, within the first 100-150m the 300blk has more wounding potential. For strictly urban use - like clearing a building - the 300blk is great. For a general purpose infantry use, 5.56 actually does better. This is more so when you consider that BGs rarely stand still. When an enemy combatant is playing "pop the weasel" and randomly popping up to fire a burst, you want to be able to put your reticle/sight picture on him and squeeze - not wonder "Is he 150m or 200m away?" and have to range. 5.56 does a pretty good job at that, and the "poodle shooter" stereotype is fading now that we are fielding good ammo like M855A1. I think 6.5G would be a better all-purpose round, but that's pretty expensive. Eventually, I think it will happen. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:18:01 PM EDT
[#50]
For everyone talking about full auto fire, you don't do that as a rifleman, a Team Leader, Grenadier, Squad Leader, or anyone who is carrying an M4 in the line.
The only full auto weapons used on full auto are the machine-guns, and in a very controlled burst manner as to not burn your barrels or spend all your lifeline (ammo). There isn't a need to mess with the M4's chambering. There is a need to improve the chambering of our machine-guns, sniper rifles, and a void that needs to be filled with DM rifles-we don't have any or the doctrine to support one. We need a projectile with a BC in the .55 G1/.28 G7 or higher region, that has sufficient retained energy to violently send secondary missiles on impact at distance (retained energy), with better reach than 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R, that is lighter, with lower working pressure. Make that projectile in the form of M855A1 (already done with 6.5mm), and set up the lightweight LSAT LMG for it, while building an AR15-type DMR/Sniper System for the projectile. Start with desired performance on target (starting with higher hit probability), then work back through the air to the weapon, and how you want that weapon to perform. |
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