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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:46:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Definitions change on public opinion. In the not too distant past, homosexuality was listed in the DSM as a mental illness.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:47:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The truth of the matter is a bit of both in varying portions. In many people it is definitely a character flaw and a behavioral malfeasance. The problem with the "disease model" is that it enables bad behavior quite often. Junkies always blame everyone and everything but themselves. The road to recovery starts with owning your bad behavior. The disease model, if used as a treatment paradigm, can help providers facilitate recovery but only if the bad behavior portion of the issue is acknowledged and accepted. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:49:53 PM EDT
[#3]
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It's a physical habit, not a disease Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's vastly more evidence that supports the disease model than exists to refute it. It is not a disease. There is no money in telling someone they are weak and stupid. Too bad some of you here are insulted by that. One more affirmation that poor mental conditioning and lack of confidence does not equal a disease. Is stupidity a disease? Because how else can you account for people who become addicted to opiates (who are not being treated already for a real medical condition or injury), as anything other than stupid? Some of your must also think like a true obama or bernie voter then, that being poor is a disease. It all starts in a chain on poor decisions, and a so what attitude. Cancer is a disease. Aids is a disease (although largely one of choice). Drinking and using narcotics is not a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:49:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Drug abuse is a disease Alcohol abuse is a disease and soon Pedophilia is a disease Easy to see where this is going........ |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:54:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brought on by conditioning/experience. Perhaps some people are just more weak willed. It is not a disease. There is no money in telling someone they are weak and stupid. Too bad some of you here are insulted by that. One more affirmation that poor mental conditioning and lack of confidence does not equal a disease. Is stupidity a disease? Because how else can you account for people who become addicted to opiates (who are not being treated already for a real medical condition or injury), as anything other than stupid? Some of your must also think like a true obama or bernie voter then, that being poor is a disease. It all starts in a chain on poor decisions, and a so what attitude. Cancer is a disease. Aids is a disease (although largely one of choice). Drinking and using narcotics is not a disease. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's vastly more evidence that supports the disease model than exists to refute it. It is not a disease. There is no money in telling someone they are weak and stupid. Too bad some of you here are insulted by that. One more affirmation that poor mental conditioning and lack of confidence does not equal a disease. Is stupidity a disease? Because how else can you account for people who become addicted to opiates (who are not being treated already for a real medical condition or injury), as anything other than stupid? Some of your must also think like a true obama or bernie voter then, that being poor is a disease. It all starts in a chain on poor decisions, and a so what attitude. Cancer is a disease. Aids is a disease (although largely one of choice). Drinking and using narcotics is not a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:56:12 PM EDT
[#6]
2 things are known about the OP's knowledge of addiction..............jack & shit. As someone who had a traumatic injury, and was prescribed 4 different medications at the same time, including Oxycodone & Fentanyl. I know for a fact that it's tough as shit to get off of the drugs once you've been on them for awhile. Even after I was taken off of them, my body & mind needed them. While I was able to beat it, it was beyond brutal. Addiction is a disease of the mind and body, however some people are just weak and like to get high, so IMO there are different levels of addiction.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 7:57:29 PM EDT
[#7]
If something alters the brain to the point that someone can't just say "I quit" and move on, I would lean more to the disease diagnoses. But, it's not like they developed cancer -- they're responsible for the path they started down (assuming they didn't become addicted after an injury or the like).
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:03:27 PM EDT
[#8]
The body produces dopamine naturally in response to stimuli. Once the body has been trained that it requires that stimuli to achieve the desired dopamine level, thats when addiction is created. Some brains are more susceptible to this hence labeling it a "disease"
I dont fall lock step with all the disease science but I recognize that some are more prone to it and those that are not cognizant of that end up in a bad place |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:03:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You speak like someone that has precisely 0% experience or information on addiction. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:08:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brought on by conditioning/experience. Perhaps some people are just more weak willed. It is not a disease. There is no money in telling someone they are weak and stupid. Too bad some of you here are insulted by that. One more affirmation that poor mental conditioning and lack of confidence does not equal a disease. Is stupidity a disease? Because how else can you account for people who become addicted to opiates (who are not being treated already for a real medical condition or injury), as anything other than stupid? Some of your must also think like a true obama or bernie voter then, that being poor is a disease. It all starts in a chain on poor decisions, and a so what attitude. Cancer is a disease. Aids is a disease (although largely one of choice). Drinking and using narcotics is not a disease. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's vastly more evidence that supports the disease model than exists to refute it. It is not a disease. There is no money in telling someone they are weak and stupid. Too bad some of you here are insulted by that. One more affirmation that poor mental conditioning and lack of confidence does not equal a disease. Is stupidity a disease? Because how else can you account for people who become addicted to opiates (who are not being treated already for a real medical condition or injury), as anything other than stupid? Some of your must also think like a true obama or bernie voter then, that being poor is a disease. It all starts in a chain on poor decisions, and a so what attitude. Cancer is a disease. Aids is a disease (although largely one of choice). Drinking and using narcotics is not a disease. There's a very specific profile for addicts that includes high risk behavior in addition to the genetics for addiction. It's not a coincidence at all that many pilots, professional musicians, top level athletes, and some of our warfighters fit the addict profile. It's not a coincidence that the addict profile is highly prevalent in specific populations such as the Irish, Scottish, and Eastern European populations. We're living through 20 years of the Medical community doling out opiates to potential addicts like after dinner mints and then scratching their collective heads when they can't get off of them. They're *JUST* realizing now that long term prescription opiate use can also *CAUSE* pain symptoms - and that chronic pain management using opiates is a collective disaster. The only thing many people in this thread are doing is displaying to the world how absolutely clueless they are about addiction and what it means. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:09:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW, I completely agree with you on the point of personal responsibility. That said, to say addiction isn't a disease requires a person to ignore science and the definitions that English speakers have universally agreed on. Accepting the reality that addiction is a disease doesn't mean that you have to accept it as an excuse. Not taking sides. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:12:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If something alters the brain to the point that someone can't just say "I quit" and move on, I would lean more to the disease diagnoses. But, it's not like they developed cancer -- they're responsible for the path they started down (assuming they didn't become addicted after an injury or the like). I can't say I'm super in the know but I do have some experience. Last year I had a heart attack and a 6 way bypass so I was on some healthy painkillers for a while. Plus I had some fluid in my chest cavity after coming home, and believe me, coughing hurt. I was gobbling Norco like candy for a couple weeks after I got home till they got me drained. I was scared to death of addiction and voiced my concern to my doctors. I had zero issues at all. Just stopped taking them when I didn't need them anymore. I am very thankful for that and I know others are not so lucky. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:13:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's vastly more evidence that supports the disease model than exists to refute it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:20:13 PM EDT
[#14]
I love how people on here infer definitions and us of words by their use then defend their ignorance with shitty logic.
Some of you should have looked at dictionary before trying to dictate what is and is not a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:28:35 PM EDT
[#15]
It is not a disease in the way cancer is a disease, you don't just get it. You have to take action for it to manifest. Try telling a person who is dying of a disease they acquired via bad luck that a person that is throwing their life away through drug addiction has a disease like they do. Let me know how that goes.
This doesn't mean some people aren't genetically more likely to become an addict. This doesn't mean that childhood trauma hasn't lead to a person being more likely to become an addict. This doesn't mean some people that got addicted through pain killers wanted to, or even realized they could become addicts. This doesn't mean that some people don't really want to overcome it, or that it isn't incredibly difficult to do. But it cannot come into being unless a person takes an action that has a risk of addiction. It is not an acquired disease, it is a consequence of action combined with genetic and/or social factors. You simply cannot become addicted to drugs if you don't take drugs in some way. With how much people on this site talk about personal responsibility I am surprised how many in this thread are taking the side that it is simply a disease. I guess personal responsibility only applies when its convenient. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:29:34 PM EDT
[#16]
High school football, junior year. I was a receiver. Went up for a pass in the end zone. Defender gave me a hard shove when I was at the top of my jump so I would land out of bounds. Good play on his part. Unfortunately my feet hit his chest and spun me weird. Came down and looked at my forearm and saw bone stock out. Compound fracture.
Thankfully there was a squad at the game. I remember it hurting like a bitch, the ER starting an IV and waking up in the ER with a cast on. I got prescribed pain pills. Never became a junkie 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:30:07 PM EDT
[#17]
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It's a disease in the sense that it slowly kills you. Or what ever So food and over eating is a disease also I guess. welfare and food stamps to fatties must mean the govt is their ''pusher.'' |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:33:42 PM EDT
[#18]
My favorite thing about this thread, is everyone who says it's not a disease, then trys to define what it is, ends up using the definitions for disease.
I.e. perfect example, the guy who said it's defined an allergic reaction. Hey, guess what allergies are? They are a disease. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:38:17 PM EDT
[#19]
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Ageing slowly kills you too. So food and over eating is a disease also I guess. welfare and food stamps to fatties must mean the govt is their ''pusher.'' Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's a disease in the sense that it slowly kills you. Or what ever So food and over eating is a disease also I guess. welfare and food stamps to fatties must mean the govt is their ''pusher.'' Over eating to the point of obesity is a disease x2 so sure uncle sugar is the pusher man. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:42:37 PM EDT
[#20]
I agree with the OP.
I'm not a Dr., scientist, Big Pharma CEO, rehab resort owner, or junkie, so I guess I don't get a vote of what it is. No sympathy for the folks who do drugs. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:43:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's vastly more evidence that supports the disease model than exists to refute it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:44:58 PM EDT
[#22]
I agree with the OP.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:45:02 PM EDT
[#23]
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sure so insurance companies and doctors can make money curing the so called disease. its a fuckin epidemic of weak minded assholes that cant handle real life. i had plenty injuries, surgery etc, dont need pain pills, heroin etc.... Go Alcoholism, too. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:48:29 PM EDT
[#24]
More precisely, addiction is a mental disorder.
And it applies to tobacco users who have tried to quit but haven't succeeded. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:50:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not a disease in the way cancer is a disease, you don't just get it. You have to take action for it to manifest. Try telling a person who is dying of a disease they acquired via bad luck that a person that is throwing their life away through drug addiction has a disease like they do. Let me know how that goes. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:50:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A huge % of people prescribed painkillers by legit dr's become addicted.... |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:50:54 PM EDT
[#27]
I've been clean and sober for 23 years. Here is my 2 cents.
I came from a good family and had no childhood issues I could blame my addiction on. I made good grades participated succefully in all forms of sports I tried and had no issues with my heterosexuality. I went to college and graduated. But I like booze and dope and the problem ran in my family. I could function until one day I couldn't. I tried to stop. Willpower did not work. The physical side of the addiction sucks, but it does end. The mental side NEVER goes away. Talk all the shit you want about how strong you are. If you got it, it will kick your ass. One day the pain associated with doing 'it' became greater than the pain of not doing 'it'. I'd had enough and decided to get help. I was ready to listen to others who had successfully learned to deal with it and started the journey to dealing with the mental side of addiction. I was lucky that the right people were around me at the right time. By all rights I should be dead. The good lord wanted me around for something and since the day I stopped I've tried to be the best I could be at that time. Today I'm very successful and it seems like it's a lifetime ago. I will tell you the addiction has never left me. I've learned to deal with it and not let it manifest itself in other potentially damaging actions. So, to the OP. It's not as easy as "look you weak fuck just stop". If it were, I would have. Trust me. Is it a disease? It's a mental disease with a physical addiction. It's not curable. It is manageable for certain persons who can hit bottom and get honest with themselves. Left untreated the person who has it will lose everything, end up in prison and or dead. :) |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:51:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lel, that's bin dun before. There was a pedo in Florida who did it on account of a brain tumor, removing the tumor fixed him. Armed with that retroactive knowledge, do you support executing the tumor only, or the entire man, who did not choose it? Folk psychology makes powerful predictions with little information. When science discovers more information, it often fucks up the crude axioms of the old system. In a spherical vacuum, science knows more; but in practice, while the new models are being constructed for mass use, a lot of old people suffer with broken models. Decision making isn't acausal agency. Deal with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Drug abuse is a disease Alcohol abuse is a disease and soon Pedophilia is a disease Easy to see where this is going........ Folk psychology makes powerful predictions with little information. When science discovers more information, it often fucks up the crude axioms of the old system. In a spherical vacuum, science knows more; but in practice, while the new models are being constructed for mass use, a lot of old people suffer with broken models. Decision making isn't acausal agency. Deal with it. Unfucking believable!! Extrapolating one case to represent others. This crude axiom has certainly blinded you to its inconsistency. Good Lord, this kind of thinking and excuse making is what's fucked this country up!!! |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:52:59 PM EDT
[#29]
So those supporting the concept that drug addiction is a disease...
Do you also support the concept of the Center for Disease Control studying gun violence? It is the same fucking argument. They are both harmful to human health. But conservatives are against the CDC investigating gun violence. Weird how there is a double standard. Consider it. Black Rifle Disease is real. Now black rifles can be banned as a cure. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:56:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brought on by conditioning/experience. Perhaps some people are just more weak willed. It is not a disease. There is no money in telling someone they are weak and stupid. Too bad some of you here are insulted by that. One more affirmation that poor mental conditioning and lack of confidence does not equal a disease. Is stupidity a disease? Because how else can you account for people who become addicted to opiates (who are not being treated already for a real medical condition or injury), as anything other than stupid? Some of your must also think like a true obama or bernie voter then, that being poor is a disease. It all starts in a chain on poor decisions, and a so what attitude. Cancer is a disease. Aids is a disease (although largely one of choice). Drinking and using narcotics is not a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:56:35 PM EDT
[#31]
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How about the normally straight and narrow people who get hooked on pain meds after their doctor prescribes them like candy? Are they scum for being "weak" That doesn't mean that he had a disease. He had an addiction. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:58:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good Lord, this kind of thinking and excuse making is what's fucked this country up!!! |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 8:59:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with the OP. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:00:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So those supporting the concept that drug addiction is a disease... Do you also support the concept of the Center for Disease Control studying gun violence? It is the same fucking argument. They are both harmful to human health. But conservatives are against the CDC investigating gun violence. Weird how there is a double standard. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:01:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A huge % of people prescribed painkillers by legit dr's become addicted.... |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:02:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So those supporting the concept that drug addiction is a disease... Do you also support the concept of the Center for Disease Control studying gun violence? It is the same fucking argument. They are both harmful to human health. But conservatives are against the CDC investigating gun violence. Weird how there is a double standard. Consider it. Black Rifle Disease is real. Now black rifles can be banned as a cure. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:03:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So those supporting the concept that drug addiction is a disease... Do you also support the concept of the Center for Disease Control studying gun violence? It is the same fucking argument. They are both harmful to human health. But conservatives are against the CDC investigating gun violence. Weird how there is a double standard. Consider it. Black Rifle Disease is real. Now black rifles can be banned as a cure. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:03:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Thread needs more Hard Drugs. Here's the prescription I was given after my hip replacement. I followed the label instructions with particular attention to "as needed."
I haven't taken any opioids in the last 16 months and have had not the slightest craving for them. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:05:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a friend who went through this. Tore his Achilles' tendon at work and was fed pills by his doctors for pain management. His family and friends eventually had to step in, and he went to rehab and got clean. That doesn't mean that he had a disease. He had an addiction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How about the normally straight and narrow people who get hooked on pain meds after their doctor prescribes them like candy? Are they scum for being "weak" That doesn't mean that he had a disease. He had an addiction. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:12:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Shades of grey.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:16:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Drinking, drugging, smoking, and obesity are based in a choice which lead to diseases of self abuse.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:17:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a friend who went through this. Tore his Achilles' tendon at work and was fed pills by his doctors for pain management. His family and friends eventually had to step in, and he went to rehab and got clean. That doesn't mean that he had a disease. He had an addiction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How about the normally straight and narrow people who get hooked on pain meds after their doctor prescribes them like candy? Are they scum for being "weak" That doesn't mean that he had a disease. He had an addiction. He *is* an addict. He didn't "have" an addiction. In rehab they didn't hit him over the head with a shoe and tell him to stop being such a pussy. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:17:45 PM EDT
[#43]
the dsm 5 criteria are not scientific. and in fact, its exact methodology are not really standardize with any rigor. so it's total bs. sorry. sometimes it'll be coincidentally correct with real medical conditions but that's purely as stated, coincidental.
addiction is sadly not purely mental like the weak willed cowards you imagine. is there actually a chemical difference, like there is for viruses or bacterial infections? ?FosB. apparently it's a chemical that can be traced in the gene. interestingly, it also affects gene expressions of behavior modifiers. so. . . it's kind of like being born with twice as many pain receptors. it's basically twice as difficult to 'man up'. whereas for someone born without pain receptors, they can walk around easily on broken bones while even the hardest 'badass' will simply black out. anyway, if this were a disease, then finding the chemical responsible for it and stopping it would result in a cure. well, that happened - ?FosB inhibitors are an effective treatment. apparently, ?FosB has an effect called neural plasticity where it rewires your brain to seek more addicting things. not saying everyone has an overexpression of said gene. some people are truly pathetic. but some truly have a biological complication. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:20:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a disease in the sense that it slowly kills you. Or what ever Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's a physical habit, not a disease Addiction is labeled a "disease" because there's money in that game. No one is going to pay someone to tell them they're responsible for their decisions. IH hell no! 'Murica! They will, however, pay someone to tell them that they're not responsible, & maybe even get an Rx alt drug to help cope with their environmentally sourced "affliction". Cuz Iizvictum. Fuck. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:21:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Had like 3 guys I know on Facebook come out with the whole "In recovery! Fighting this disease!" Shit in the past year or so. No. You're a fucking dope fiend. No one forced you to do drugs. It was a choice. God damn. One of these guys was a VERY successful business owner who ran a custom car shop in MD. he fell off the face of the earth for a while then came back all "YAY RECOVERY!". I'm happy he's making a positive change in his life, but stop with the "it's a disease" bullshit. Here's a good video on the subject.  Agree +1000%! I've been saying this for years, its NOT a G*D***d disease! Diseases are caused by microbes and viruses. At most its a CONDITION! The ONLY reason the left embraces the phony notion of "disease" is because its easier to avoid personal responsibility if the act like they "caught" something! After all, they can't be blamed, its a "disease", right? 
Pisses me right the fuck off! |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:27:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes, yea pain hurts, ive had enough to know. suck it up. or pop pills... everyone has a choice. i just had major shoulder surgery, and took some tylenol.. that was it, i refuse narcotics. Overmanagement of acute pain leads to increased risk of opiate addiction. I suggest the middle ground. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:30:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Even when the "recover" they are like Borg that have been recovered... they can still hear the borg song in their head and are susceptible to returning to their borg ways.
If drug addiction is a disease then so is a lot of stupid shit, I don't care what you call it, it takes a weak mindset to succumb to such bullshit. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:31:32 PM EDT
[#48]
 Ricky Gervais Fat People Joke [Out of England Stand up show] |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:32:27 PM EDT
[#49]
As someone who lost a grandfather to alcoholism, you're wrong.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:33:10 PM EDT
[#50]
so what's the solution then, no matter what side you fall on?
In this thread we seem to have transitioned to a discussion based on the (recently) socially acceptable meme of drug addiction following some medical diagnosis - now its the medical community's fault. Ok, maybe so. What's the solution? More big government oversight and regulation? More big government mandated funding for treatment centers? 60 days treatment for everyone-Government paid? 90 days? Or are we wanting Government to back the fuck off and stay out of it and let us live our lives (let Darwin take over)? Maybe ban all opioids and deal with the pain naturally? |
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