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Thanks man, deal with it for almost a decade and a half, and you get real jaded. He's still my brother, and I love him and hope for the best, but you have to be realistic about what a phone call regarding him means. It's not a good way to live thinking about a loved one, but I pray for prison over death, because his lifestyle, those are the most likely options. ETA: To bring more GD lightheartedness back: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRirSpVFUFCa53aY4i-BPWlsfiEJIRr4P057rNk64D9hjFUBj7l View Quote Drug Addiction is not a disease as far as I'm concerned. But a choice. Fuck em. Ed |
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Lol "safety"
The sheriff has decided to let some people die who his officers could save. I suppose we'll see private ambulance companies in places like Portland refusing to assist injured police officers "my EMTs could be injured by criminals." |
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What if a cop is exposed to that elephant tranquilizer stuff or heroin through a cut? He's going to die too since they can't carry narcan. Or if they are selective on who gets narcan the county will be sued until there's not any room
left on the lakes of Ohio for the boats of lawyers wait until some 4 year old gets exposed to mom's stash in some shitty hotel room and the cops let her die. |
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Lol "safety" The sheriff has decided to let some people die who his officers could save. I suppose we'll see private ambulance companies in places like Portland refusing to assist injured police officers "my EMTs could be injured by criminals." View Quote |
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Anyone who does H on purpose is a retard and deserves to die. Knowing how dangerous and addictive it is I don't know why anyone would get involved with it.
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Anyone who does H on purpose is a retard and deserves to die. Knowing how dangerous and addictive it is I don't know why anyone would get involved with it. View Quote Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools. |
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No affect other than blocking opioid receptors. Have heard of Edema in lungs but most docs I talk to about it say it is a result of low heart rate and B/P being under the affect of the drug overdose. View Quote You can administer Narcan pretty much with impunity... it's just the amount that's variable. How big an asshat you are (or have been), you might get a "gentle" wakeup, or a "hard" wakeup, depending on the whim of the medical staff. The only difference is in the dose. |
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Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin. Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools. View Quote |
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Obviously not the user's fault at all then. They are the victims right? View Quote Obviously not everyone starts out on legal opiods but it has been a huge fuck up in the medical profession that we now pay for now if you want to start shooting potheads that'll save some money ![]() |
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At least there's one voice of reason in this thread. Do the rest of you really want us (the police) making value judgments on who we should try to save and who we should just let die? View Quote Now that they're all carrying their own taxpayer funded Narcan, they don't go to the ER for further treatment when their buddy brings them back. They go back to getting high. Heroin has been responsible for taking away some our regular players. Don't miss them a bit. |
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Not sure I agree %100 with that. Sometimes kids of junkies will injest or otherwise consume haroine. I think they should carry it. Their duty is to protect and save lifes. Anything that can help them save lives should be utilized. ![]() View Quote No it isn't their duty per the U.S. supreme court but I do agree with the first part of your reply. |
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Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin. Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools. View Quote That didn't happen in a vacuum. As with many things in the US, it can be laid squarely at the feet of the FedGov, through CMS. You can start by reading this article from The Atlantic. And what's contained in that article dovetails exactly with my experience. If you're not aware of Press-Ganey, or HCAHPS, those are survey/"quality"/Patient-Satisfaction tools that are used to measure "quality" and assist the goverment in "Value Based Purchasing" of healthcare through CMS (medicare/medicaid). This push has been going on since the late 1990's. (you can read more about HCAHPS here.) Even JCAHO got into the act... they've had "pain management" guidelines out there for nearly 20 years. Here is a summary from a 2011 Webinar on the issue. (These "quality measures" are really a method by which they can justify paying us less, but that's my cynical side talking...) In fact, until it was taken out under political pressure (due to the now-undeniable-and-publicly-known fact that opiates are KILLING people, and that the "culture of pain" people have gone way-the-hell-overboard) in late November 2016, "Pain Management" (adequacy of pain control, from the PATIENT'S perspective) was part of CMS's "quality measures." In other words, if you didn't give the patient the drugs they wanted, you got dinged on "quality" measures. Those HCAHPS scores (pronounced "H caps") determine your reimbursement from Medicare/Medicaid. We are talking millions of dollars. Naturally, this caused hospital Administrators and Staffing folks to care a GREAT DEAL about those measures. It determines the hospital's potential financial health, bonuses for executives, etc. This trickled down to the regular physician level. If a doc isn't creating high "patient satisfaction" scores (and make no mistake... we have to answer EVERY complaint that comes in, and manipulative drug-seeking patients know this), there can be "problems" at contract-renewal time. The writing was on the wall for roughly 20 years... you piss off the patients, and you're going to be looking for a new job. Want to know how we got here? There it is. |
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As a step-father to a junkie, I say good. According to her, she has been narcaned, "at least 3 times". She chose to put that shit in her body, not because of "prescribed opiates", but because she "wanted to see what it was like", because her boyfriend is a junkie. If cops are not allowed to carry Epi-pens, then narcan should also not be allowed.
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Not sure I agree %100 with that. Sometimes kids of junkies will injest or otherwise consume haroine. I think they should carry it. Their duty is to protect and save lifes. Anything that can help them save lives should be utilized. ![]() View Quote That's why it went away in the late 60's and stayed away until the early 90's, when the start of the "drug war" made pot to risky to smuggle so drugs more profitable and harder to detect surged in popularity. |
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View Quote ![]() I've got to buy you a beer sometime. |
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Super nice guy. Met him at the Hamilton YMCA.
That's my sheriff. he loves illegal immigrants too, lol Should cops carry glucose tubes for diabetics? Should cops carry epi pens? Should cops carry, and the list goes on,,,,,,,, How about cops do cop shit and leave it at that. |
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View Quote ![]() |
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Intra-nasally administered narcan needs to be ambu bagged in to really take effect, at least to someone who is really blue. It's not a pulp-fiction wake up when you spray it up their nose. I personally don't have a problem with cops (who have very minimal medical training) not administering medication. We have EMT's, medics, and nurses for that. Let them be cops, that job is hard enough. View Quote Why dump another non-cop responsibility on them when they want to be cops. |
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Not sure I agree %100 with that. Sometimes kids of junkies will injest or otherwise consume haroine. I think they should carry it. Their duty is to protect and save lifes. Anything that can help them save lives should be utilized. ![]() View Quote |
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Now aren't some of us just ass hats. If they junkies and over dose they should just die. Yeah right. Some those people are not junkies that over dose nimrods. You don't know if you've never seen the people before.
Now are far as using narcan. You only want to use enough or in other words titrate to effect to stabilize the patient. You do not want to take their high away in case they are a junkie. Because if you block the opiate receptors totally and take a junkies high totally away. What happens......................withdrawals. The person you gave narcan to if a junkie will go into withdrawals which can include. Vomiting, violent reactions, uncontrolled bowel movements ect...ect... Now the only way you can really know how much to give them is if you have them hooked up to a life pack 10 or 12 so you can monitor their vitals. You only and I say ONLY GIVE THEM ENOUGH TO STABILZE THEM. They may not even become alert/conscious. Now in an emergency situation to stabilize someone that may or may not be a junkie. It could be someone that was slipped a drug, first time user that is a straight A student or who ever and a lot of I don't knows. If you pull up on scene the main thing you as a first responder ie LEO should be concerned with is breathing on an overdose. If you must give narcan give in small burst wait a minute and observe breathing. Once breathing is stable stop. Then observe until paramedics arrive. You may have to reapply doseage. But no more than necessary just to stabilize the breathing by observation. You be hailed as a hero for saving a life and get in the NEWS might get LEO of the year and probably a medal for doing what Firefighters and Firefighter Medics do everydays and don't bitch or whine about it like your doing here in this thread. I don't get this attitude of fuck people let them die. Everyone of you that wears a badge are first responders. If you mind set is not as such as to save peoples lifes you need to fucking quit. It takes a very special kind of person to roll up on scene and look down upon someone dying. Knowing they have the power to save their life and instead just lets them die because they think that person will never be productive in the world. In the mind of that first responder he figures he just saved the taxpayer a shit load of money. Some people might say that first responder committed murdered because they had a fiduciary responsibility to act. You were not hired to be cop, jury, judge and executioner. Though some of you think you were from they way you post. Sure theirs garbage out there. But not everyone is garbage, not everyone that overdoses is a junkie. You also have to remember if your in public always assume somebody is recording you. If you fuck up it could cost you. |
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I agree...cops should never do anything that endangers them. They should quit intervening in domestic disputes, stop serving warrants against violent criminals, and for goodness sake, NEVER should they pursue bad guys. Why? None of them are happy to see the police, and they are potentially violent.
Shit, I don't even think they should exceed the speed limit or go through a red light. That's dangerous! There is no consitutional duty to protect, either, so they should change "To Protect and Serve" on their cars to, "To Sit Back and Watch." The cops I know are great people and they got in the business to save lives. One was decorated for giving Narcan to a boy, saving his life. I wonder how things will go in this sheriff's jourisdiction when the life that could have been saved is the son or daughter of another deputy. Guess what? Even some cops have kids who become addicted to heroine. If they become hostile, that's what tasers are for, or billy clubs. Btw, whatever happened to billy clubs? That used to be the antecdote for someone not happy to see the cops. |
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Bullshit excuse
Too dangerous for cops- lets have nurses or medics do it |
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He should reconsider his policy for his Deputy's safety. The introduction of fentanyl and carfentanyl into the heroin increase the possibility of an officer over dosiing through accidental contact. An officer to the south of us overdosed through incidental contact with extra spicy heroin. I'd also not want to be the guy standing there while a kid who got into some heroin was dying over a policy stance.
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Guess what. That didn't happen in a vacuum. As with many things in the US, it can be laid squarely at the feet of the FedGov, through CMS. You can start by reading this article from The Atlantic. And what's contained in that article dovetails exactly with my experience. If you're not aware of Press-Ganey, or HCAHPS, those are survey/"quality"/Patient-Satisfaction tools that are used to measure "quality" and assist the goverment in "Value Based Purchasing" of healthcare through CMS (medicare/medicaid). This push has been going on since the late 1990's. (you can read more about HCAHPS here.) Even JCAHO got into the act... they've had "pain management" guidelines out there for nearly 20 years. Here is a summary from a 2011 Webinar on the issue. (These "quality measures" are really a method by which they can justify paying us less, but that's my cynical side talking...) In fact, until it was taken out under political pressure (due to the now-undeniable-and-publicly-known fact that opiates are KILLING people, and that the "culture of pain" people have gone way-the-hell-overboard) in late November 2016, "Pain Management" (adequacy of pain control, from the PATIENT'S perspective) was part of CMS's "quality measures." In other words, if you didn't give the patient the drugs they wanted, you got dinged on "quality" measures. Those HCAHPS scores (pronounced "H caps") determine your reimbursement from Medicare/Medicaid. We are talking millions of dollars. Naturally, this caused hospital Administrators and Staffing folks to care a GREAT DEAL about those measures. It determines the hospital's potential financial health, bonuses for executives, etc. This trickled down to the regular physician level. If a doc isn't creating high "patient satisfaction" scores (and make no mistake... we have to answer EVERY complaint that comes in, and manipulative drug-seeking patients know this), there can be "problems" at contract-renewal time. The writing was on the wall for roughly 20 years... you piss off the patients, and you're going to be looking for a new job. Want to know how we got here? There it is. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin. Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools. That didn't happen in a vacuum. As with many things in the US, it can be laid squarely at the feet of the FedGov, through CMS. You can start by reading this article from The Atlantic. And what's contained in that article dovetails exactly with my experience. If you're not aware of Press-Ganey, or HCAHPS, those are survey/"quality"/Patient-Satisfaction tools that are used to measure "quality" and assist the goverment in "Value Based Purchasing" of healthcare through CMS (medicare/medicaid). This push has been going on since the late 1990's. (you can read more about HCAHPS here.) Even JCAHO got into the act... they've had "pain management" guidelines out there for nearly 20 years. Here is a summary from a 2011 Webinar on the issue. (These "quality measures" are really a method by which they can justify paying us less, but that's my cynical side talking...) In fact, until it was taken out under political pressure (due to the now-undeniable-and-publicly-known fact that opiates are KILLING people, and that the "culture of pain" people have gone way-the-hell-overboard) in late November 2016, "Pain Management" (adequacy of pain control, from the PATIENT'S perspective) was part of CMS's "quality measures." In other words, if you didn't give the patient the drugs they wanted, you got dinged on "quality" measures. Those HCAHPS scores (pronounced "H caps") determine your reimbursement from Medicare/Medicaid. We are talking millions of dollars. Naturally, this caused hospital Administrators and Staffing folks to care a GREAT DEAL about those measures. It determines the hospital's potential financial health, bonuses for executives, etc. This trickled down to the regular physician level. If a doc isn't creating high "patient satisfaction" scores (and make no mistake... we have to answer EVERY complaint that comes in, and manipulative drug-seeking patients know this), there can be "problems" at contract-renewal time. The writing was on the wall for roughly 20 years... you piss off the patients, and you're going to be looking for a new job. Want to know how we got here? There it is. |
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Now aren't some of us just ass hats. If they junkies and over dose they should just die. Yeah right. Some those people are not junkies that over dose nimrods. You don't know if you've never seen the people before. Sure theirs garbage out there. But not everyone is garbage, not everyone that overdoses is a junkie. You also have to remember if your in public always assume somebody is recording you. If you fuck up it could cost you. View Quote When you find them in a car, with the syringe still laying in their lap, you pretty much know what's up. Stop playing the sympathy card for those jokers... they don't rate it, and you know it. |
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I've been against this whole lets make medics out of cops deal.
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Saw a guy in the trauma room not breathing, basically dead, dumped off at the ER doorstep by his buddy. Given Narcan and came around. Became violent and denied that he was brought back from death. Kept looking at us and say "oh, bullsheeet" (latin accent) when we told him. He was PISSED to be there, off his high, and had to be "carpet-bombed" by the syringe-yielding nurse to keep him in check. Dude slept for 10 hours after that.
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Narcotics are known to produce non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema all by themselves. I'd be very hesitant to blame that on the Narcan. You can administer Narcan pretty much with impunity... it's just the amount that's variable. How big an asshat you are (or have been), you might get a "gentle" wakeup, or a "hard" wakeup, depending on the whim of the medical staff. The only difference is in the dose. View Quote ![]() |
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Guess what. That didn't happen in a vacuum. As with many things in the US, it can be laid squarely at the feet of the FedGov, through CMS. You can start by reading this article from The Atlantic. And what's contained in that article dovetails exactly with my experience. If you're not aware of Press-Ganey, or HCAHPS, those are survey/"quality"/Patient-Satisfaction tools that are used to measure "quality" and assist the goverment in "Value Based Purchasing" of healthcare through CMS (medicare/medicaid). This push has been going on since the late 1990's. (you can read more about HCAHPS here.) Even JCAHO got into the act... they've had "pain management" guidelines out there for nearly 20 years. Here is a summary from a 2011 Webinar on the issue. (These "quality measures" are really a method by which they can justify paying us less, but that's my cynical side talking...) In fact, until it was taken out under political pressure (due to the now-undeniable-and-publicly-known fact that opiates are KILLING people, and that the "culture of pain" people have gone way-the-hell-overboard) in late November 2016, "Pain Management" (adequacy of pain control, from the PATIENT'S perspective) was part of CMS's "quality measures." In other words, if you didn't give the patient the drugs they wanted, you got dinged on "quality" measures. Those HCAHPS scores (pronounced "H caps") determine your reimbursement from Medicare/Medicaid. We are talking millions of dollars. Naturally, this caused hospital Administrators and Staffing folks to care a GREAT DEAL about those measures. It determines the hospital's potential financial health, bonuses for executives, etc. This trickled down to the regular physician level. If a doc isn't creating high "patient satisfaction" scores (and make no mistake... we have to answer EVERY complaint that comes in, and manipulative drug-seeking patients know this), there can be "problems" at contract-renewal time. The writing was on the wall for roughly 20 years... you piss off the patients, and you're going to be looking for a new job. Want to know how we got here? There it is. View Quote |
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One or more of the neighboring counties is considering a 3 strikes system becuase they have to save the same people over and over. It consumes a lot of local resources.
Dayton OH is 30 minutes from there and it is #1 in the US for drug OD deaths even with the massive use of narcan. Montgomery County, Ohio, tops in U.S. for overdose deaths |
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At least there's one voice of reason in this thread. Do the rest of you really want us (the police) making value judgments on who we should try to save and who we should just let die? View Quote I told my son when he was old enough to listen that Heroin is a death sentence and sooner or later it will get you. I am torn on the use of Narcan because of this. It just prolongs a family's suffering in dealing with an addict. Is that cold, yes it is but its the reality of it. |
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