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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:48:49 PM EDT
[#1]
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That's an interesting chart you have there, my car charges on 240 and has never taken that long to go to full, this is my second Model S, the first one had the now discontinued dual chargers, I didn't get the upgraded charger on my latest Model S, just didn't see the need for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It actually sounds very restrictive and limiting. https://www.pluglesspower.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Tesla-charge-times.jpg How long does it take, and do you have access to many charging facilities available to you away from your home? Because my car takes a matter of only a few minutes to refill and there are filling stations available to me almost everywhere. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:02:33 PM EDT
[#2]
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Charge time depends on how low you discharge before recharging. How long does it take, and do you have access to many charging facilities available to you away from your home? Because my car takes a matter of only a few minutes to refill and there are filling stations available to me almost everywhere. I do give you credit for posting that chart from the conductive (wireless) charging manufacturer though. Maybe someday those will be standard in all parking places. Even though they are the slowest way to charge. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:07:14 PM EDT
[#3]
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New ford bronco. While Ford hasn't been in immediate danger of failure for quite some time, their stock has been on a crash course since the day Fields took over in 2014...ironically primarily for him investing heavily in the "Smart Mobility" program...a Ford subsidiary focused on advanced R&D in autonomous driving and other mobile connectivity technology. Fields knew his job was in danger and needed to do something to create some excitement and hopefully boost stock prices. Officially announcing the Bronco and Ranger is one of those desperation moves. Unlike Tesla though, they released very few details...no conceptual drawings, no firm dates, and certainly no details of pre-production builds. His last desparation move was to try to fire the guy who headed the money pit Smart Mobility subsidiary. That backfired in a major way and Fields was replaced by....you guessed it....the guy that headed Smart Mobility LLC. 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:12:26 PM EDT
[#4]
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Gross profit. Operating profit. Net profit. The distinction is important, and explained multiple times in this thread. If Tesla stopped investing for growth they would then only lose money on every car they make, instead of losing money on every car they make and losing money by investing in growth like they do now. The best they can do is stop losing money altogether. They would do this by ceasing to invest in growth, and turning off the assembly lines for all of their products. They currently have no avenue to make a net profit, and it looks unlikely that that will change any time soon. The demand for their products has already stopped growing. S sales have been flat for 7 quarters. X sales have been flat for 4 quarters. Powerwall sales are virtually nonexistent. The Solar Roof is a vaporware hoax product. In the coming quarters we'll see how well they can increase Model 3 production, how many of the 500,000 gross reservations become orders, and what the actual demand is. Amazon stockholders were not taking near the risk. Amazon had free cash flow after only about 4 years of operation. Tesla is 14 years old and has never had positive free cash flow. Tesla has a path to profitability: convincing drivers that autopilot is viable and their product is the best, so other companies license it or consumers only buy their cars. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:13:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Triple tap
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:13:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Double tap
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:16:39 PM EDT
[#7]
In the event that Tesla goes tits up, I'd expect that their technical patents in certain areas would have substantial value to other, more viable, car manufacturers.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:28:16 PM EDT
[#8]
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Bingo. Add to this the real possibility of Tesla cracking the code of fully autonomous driving, what other industries will be consumed by or built upon that? Can Tesla out-Uber Uber with essentially a software update? Or partner with Amazon to bring same-day delivery to the remaining % of the country? These aren't questions that anyone's asking about Toyota, or GM. They're not even in the discussion. Only with one company are outcomes like this even a remote possibility. He'd have to pull the equivalent of landing a 12-story rocket on it's ass, on a floating barge in the middle of the ocean. If anyone could, it'd be him. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:29:31 PM EDT
[#9]
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Well, Tesla has been building and selling electric only cars since 2008, no other car manufacturer can make that statement. Tesla has the largest network of state of the art charging stations, Tesla has products other than cars, Tesla builds batteries they use in the production of their cars, Tesla is ahead of other car manufacturers in the semi autonomous and fully autonomous driving systems. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:30:04 PM EDT
[#10]
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In the event that Tesla goes tits up, I'd expect that their technical patents in certain areas would have substantial value to other, more viable, car manufacturers. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:33:56 PM EDT
[#11]
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Their processing hardware on board for autonomous driving is less than half as powerful as Nvidia and Mobileye believe will be required for SAE Lever 5 autonomy. Tesla is alone among ALL companies working on autonomous driving in its belief that it can be done without LIDAR. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:38:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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So what you're saying is that they're coming at a difficult problem, that no one else has been able to solve, in a way that's different from how everyone else is currently failing to solve it? The processing hardware on board for autonomous driving will be be less important than the processing software, and less important than the data collected - two things Tesla is leading in by a large margin, and one that creates an industry-leading virtuous cycle/feedback loop. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:41:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Tesla is the next packard
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:17:22 PM EDT
[#14]
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I've driven my Tesla all over the state and never been at risk of running out of juice or having to worry about range. If I need to go cross country I take a jet, cross country road trips are for retirees and people on the no fly list. I do give you credit for posting that chart from the conductive (wireless) charging manufacturer though. Maybe someday those will be standard in all parking places. Even though they are the slowest way to charge. So far as making inductive charging stations standard in all parking places; considering the capital costs, there isn't enough money on the entire planet to accomplish that. The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:19:45 PM EDT
[#15]
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No, no they aren't. Not even close Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, Tesla has been building and selling electric only cars since 2008, no other car manufacturer can make that statement. Tesla has the largest network of state of the art charging stations, Tesla has products other than cars, Tesla builds batteries they use in the production of their cars, Tesla is ahead of other car manufacturers in the semi autonomous and fully autonomous driving systems. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:22:27 PM EDT
[#16]
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Who do you think is #1 today for each market segment? Honestly asking; a year ago I said Subaru for semi autonomous (SAE 1 or 2) due to price point, but still Tesla for autonomous (SAE 3+). Today I'm not sure on Toyota or Honda for semi autonomous because they've both made the systems standard equipment across all cars for 2018. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, Tesla has been building and selling electric only cars since 2008, no other car manufacturer can make that statement. Tesla has the largest network of state of the art charging stations, Tesla has products other than cars, Tesla builds batteries they use in the production of their cars, Tesla is ahead of other car manufacturers in the semi autonomous and fully autonomous driving systems. Kharn Autonomous - GM's system is incredibly robust and I would put it against anyone's. Yes, I am biased, but I am also fully aware of the systems |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:31:51 PM EDT
[#17]
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I posed those still unanswered questions to help me determine if such a vehicle would be suitable for my needs rather than yours. So far as making inductive charging stations standard in all parking places; considering the capital costs, there isn't enough money on the entire planet to accomplish that. The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:37:29 PM EDT
[#18]
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Semi autonomous- GM. See the supercruise system. Autonomous - GM's system is incredibly robust and I would put it against anyone's. Yes, I am biased, but I am also fully aware of the systems Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, Tesla has been building and selling electric only cars since 2008, no other car manufacturer can make that statement. Tesla has the largest network of state of the art charging stations, Tesla has products other than cars, Tesla builds batteries they use in the production of their cars, Tesla is ahead of other car manufacturers in the semi autonomous and fully autonomous driving systems. Kharn Autonomous - GM's system is incredibly robust and I would put it against anyone's. Yes, I am biased, but I am also fully aware of the systems Kharn |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:41:59 PM EDT
[#19]
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cross country road trips are for retirees and people on the no fly list. Quote HistoryQuoted:
cross country road trips are for retirees and people on the no fly list. . Maybe someday those will be standard in all parking places. Even though they are the slowest way to charge. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:42:11 PM EDT
[#20]
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The problem with other fuels would be the lack of ways to generate them and that they are controlled by countries with agendas that differ greatly from our own, and yes, you have an fantastic screen name, but importing millions of barrels of oil every day from countries where the majority of the population would love to cut the heads off every American they can find is a bad plan. 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:43:02 PM EDT
[#21]
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And what about the <$30k market available today, where the average consumer actually has a chance of owning one? Supercruise is SAE 3+, not very fair to compare that to true SAE 1-2 vehicles for half the price. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, Tesla has been building and selling electric only cars since 2008, no other car manufacturer can make that statement. Tesla has the largest network of state of the art charging stations, Tesla has products other than cars, Tesla builds batteries they use in the production of their cars, Tesla is ahead of other car manufacturers in the semi autonomous and fully autonomous driving systems. Kharn Autonomous - GM's system is incredibly robust and I would put it against anyone's. Yes, I am biased, but I am also fully aware of the systems Kharn |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:44:07 PM EDT
[#22]
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The problem with other fuels would be the lack of ways to generate them and that they are controlled by countries with agendas that differ greatly from our own, and yes, you have an fantastic screen name, but importing millions of barrels of oil every day from countries where the majority of the population would love to cut the heads off every American they can find is a bad plan. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I posed those still unanswered questions to help me determine if such a vehicle would be suitable for my needs rather than yours. So far as making inductive charging stations standard in all parking places; considering the capital costs, there isn't enough money on the entire planet to accomplish that. The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:53:02 PM EDT
[#23]
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You have no idea where the US gets the vast majority of oil from, do you. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:55:05 PM EDT
[#24]
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The MAJORITY of imported oil to the US probably comes from Canada, but we also import oil from Russia, saudi arabia, iraq Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have no idea where the US gets the vast majority of oil from, do you. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:56:32 PM EDT
[#25]
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Nope, you don't know. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:01:12 PM EDT
[#26]
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Ok, enlighten me Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nope, you don't know. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:02:51 PM EDT
[#27]
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I don't have to fill up my gas powered vehicle every night because it doesn't require 4 full days of pumping gasoline to fill my tank should the need suddenly arise, or should I simply decide to take a drive somewhere. It actually sounds very restrictive and limiting. https://www.pluglesspower.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Tesla-charge-times.jpg |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:14:01 PM EDT
[#28]
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The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:14:55 PM EDT
[#29]
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Charge time depends on how low you discharge before recharging. Correct How long does it take, and do you have access to many charging facilities available to you away from your home? Varies with state of charge. Yes, plenty of places to charge in Florida. Because my car takes a matter of only a few minutes to refill and there are filling stations available to me almost everywhere. Agreed, plenty of arab go juice out there, ==at the moment. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:15:51 PM EDT
[#30]
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Welp, if you drive 300 miles every day, using a Level 1 charger could be a problem. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:18:46 PM EDT
[#31]
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LOL. I suspect there are more outlets than gas pumps... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:19:58 PM EDT
[#32]
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LOL. I suspect there are more outlets than gas pumps... |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:31:59 PM EDT
[#33]
John Delorean ----white courtesy phone...John Delorean ---white courtesy phone please.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:32:47 PM EDT
[#34]
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Yes, but just not in the right places, I spoke with someone who had the idea of putting chargers on street light posts in parking lots, Seems like a better idea than running new wires. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL. I suspect there are more outlets than gas pumps... 
Why run new wires?
You've got to be trolling this thread. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:35:12 PM EDT
[#35]
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Yeah, in addition to powering the street lights, simply utilize the existing lamp post wiring and underground conduits that are already in place to supply the power necessary to provide charging for electric cars.
Why run new wires?
You've got to be trolling this thread. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:38:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with other fuels would be the lack of ways to generate them and that they are controlled by countries with agendas that differ greatly from our own, and yes, you have an fantastic screen name, but importing millions of barrels of oil every day from countries where the majority of the population would love to cut the heads off every American they can find is a bad plan. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:48:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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Yes, but just not in the right places, I spoke with someone who had the idea of putting chargers on street light posts in parking lots, Seems like a better idea than running new wires. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:56:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Not to play to either side but to simply point out an obvious - Leaving your car plugged into a outlet in public space invites vandalism. Probably harmless in nature but vandalism nonetheless which could lead to undesirable conditions. I see they seem to have developed wireless charging pads but do not know it's requirements.
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Posted: 8/2/2017 12:18:24 AM EDT
[#39]
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I posed those still unanswered questions to help me determine if such a vehicle would be suitable for my needs rather than yours. So far as making inductive charging stations standard in all parking places; considering the capital costs, there isn't enough money on the entire planet to accomplish that. The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've driven my Tesla all over the state and never been at risk of running out of juice or having to worry about range. If I need to go cross country I take a jet, cross country road trips are for retirees and people on the no fly list. I do give you credit for posting that chart from the conductive (wireless) charging manufacturer though. Maybe someday those will be standard in all parking places. Even though they are the slowest way to charge. So far as making inductive charging stations standard in all parking places; considering the capital costs, there isn't enough money on the entire planet to accomplish that. The problem with electricity is that it really isn't portable in comparison to other "fuels". And they can't "BUT MUH AUTOMOBILE PROGRESS" their way out of it? Like the "old" geezer next door filling his '91 camry with gas cans, can?   
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Posted: 8/2/2017 12:33:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Rechargeable fluid batteries are a definite possibility although goes against the current trend. Fill fluid (fuel) cell with charged fluid(s), reclaim when discharged and refill. Combined with a smaller secondary battery (rechargeable lithium cells?), the rechargeable fluid cell could be used as primary power source then default to the secondary when discharged then default back to primary when it's serviced.
ETA: The secondary can be recharged by regenerative braking (or a combination of recharging possibilities). |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 6:03:51 AM EDT
[#41]
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Soooo if the power goes out, and a guy was on day 1 of his 4 day charge, and needs to un-ass their state due to hurricane, and plunked down all their $100,000 on a tesla, they're totally fuckin boned? And they can't "BUT MUH AUTOMOBILE PROGRESS" their way out of it? Like the "old" geezer next door filling his '91 camry with gas cans, can? |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 6:33:06 AM EDT
[#42]
My work asked us if we wanted electric charging stations and overhead solar panels to offset the grid cost. Artistic impression and the map off where the chargers would go were included. They couldn't believe how many people said they wanted it and would use it, so they went full steam ahead on boring the parking lot for the runs.
They stopped (no chargers, no roof, just capped conduit) when they found out we voted for it not for the electric charging stations but because we wanted the covered parking lot the solar roof would provide to those lucky enough to park near the charging spots. IIRC it was five covered spots per charging spot, with 20 charging spots planned.
Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:18:41 AM EDT
[#43]
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John Delorean ----white courtesy phone...John Delorean ---white courtesy phone please. Paging Preston Tucker; you're needed on the factory floor. 
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:19:55 AM EDT
[#44]
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The problem with other fuels would be the lack of ways to generate them and that they are controlled by countries with agendas that differ greatly from our own, and yes, you have an fantastic screen name, but importing millions of barrels of oil every day from countries where the majority of the population would love to cut the heads off every American they can find is a bad plan. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:21:30 AM EDT
[#45]
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You have no idea where the US gets the vast majority of oil from, do you. Oil and automobiles have been the #1 and #2 line item in our trade deficit for 40+ years. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:26:57 AM EDT
[#46]
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2/3rds of our trade deficit the last 40 years has been oil and cars. Somehow burning foreign oil in foreign cars is 'Merica, And electric cars that "burn" domestic fuel and that we exporter of are for fags. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with other fuels would be the lack of ways to generate them and that they are controlled by countries with agendas that differ greatly from our own, and yes, you have an fantastic screen name, but importing millions of barrels of oil every day from countries where the majority of the population would love to cut the heads off every American they can find is a bad plan. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:27:27 AM EDT
[#47]
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Gross profit. Operating profit. Net profit. The distinction is important, and explained multiple times in this thread. If Tesla stopped investing for growth they would then only lose money on every car they make, instead of losing money on every car they make and losing money by investing in growth like they do now. The best they can do is stop losing money altogether. They would do this by ceasing to invest in growth, and turning off the assembly lines for all of their products. They currently have no avenue to make a net profit, and it looks unlikely that that will change any time soon. The demand for their products has already stopped growing. S sales have been flat for 7 quarters. X sales have been flat for 4 quarters. Powerwall sales are virtually nonexistent. The Solar Roof is a vaporware hoax product. In the coming quarters we'll see how well they can increase Model 3 production, how many of the 500,000 gross reservations become orders, and what the actual demand is. Amazon stockholders were not taking near the risk. Amazon had free cash flow after only about 4 years of operation. Tesla is 14 years old and has never had positive free cash flow. I'm sure they'll move on to something else after, before it was Model X delays, Autopilot, Gigafactory problems, etc. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:32:26 AM EDT
[#48]
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Why wouldn't we burn up all the cheap fuel from outside the US? If the fucking NIMBYs and government would get out of the way we could produce the vast majority of our electricity with nuclear power, and then electric shit vs petro powered would really start to make sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with other fuels would be the lack of ways to generate them and that they are controlled by countries with agendas that differ greatly from our own, and yes, you have an fantastic screen name, but importing millions of barrels of oil every day from countries where the majority of the population would love to cut the heads off every American they can find is a bad plan. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:37:20 AM EDT
[#49]
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Seekingalpha copypasta, written by shorts with a vested interest... I'm sure they'll move on to something else after, before it was Model X delays, Autopilot, Gigafactory problems, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gross profit. Operating profit. Net profit. The distinction is important, and explained multiple times in this thread. If Tesla stopped investing for growth they would then only lose money on every car they make, instead of losing money on every car they make and losing money by investing in growth like they do now. The best they can do is stop losing money altogether. They would do this by ceasing to invest in growth, and turning off the assembly lines for all of their products. They currently have no avenue to make a net profit, and it looks unlikely that that will change any time soon. The demand for their products has already stopped growing. S sales have been flat for 7 quarters. X sales have been flat for 4 quarters. Powerwall sales are virtually nonexistent. The Solar Roof is a vaporware hoax product. In the coming quarters we'll see how well they can increase Model 3 production, how many of the 500,000 gross reservations become orders, and what the actual demand is. Amazon stockholders were not taking near the risk. Amazon had free cash flow after only about 4 years of operation. Tesla is 14 years old and has never had positive free cash flow. I'm sure they'll move on to something else after, before it was Model X delays, Autopilot, Gigafactory problems, etc. Now we've got 30 hand built Model 3 cars in the possession of 30 company employees. It smells like Tucker redux. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:37:29 AM EDT
[#50]
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Why wouldn't we burn up all the cheap fuel from outside the US? If the fucking NIMBYs and government would get out of the way we could produce the vast majority of our electricity with nuclear power, and then electric shit vs petro powered would really start to make sense. Even if you used oil in CCGTs for the electricity (we wouldn't too expensive) it would drop our oil consumption by about half and we would be a net exporter of oil. That's how incredibly inefficient ICE cars are. Eventually (early/mid 2020s) Solar + Storage will be cheaper than everything if the cost curves hold at even half their present rate. Luckily we also have the best solar resource of any large country (desert SW) If Europe wants to do that they're going to have to import it from Northern Africa (lol).... |
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