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Posted: 4/8/2024 12:47:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. The Expanse was likely closer to truth than fiction in that regard. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 1:40:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It was amusing watching the comment section turn on Elon over the years. They are for/against the current thing like good little bots, whatever their NPC programmers command. That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. How did the colony get destroyed? Bob dropped his Sig 320 
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Posted: 4/8/2024 1:43:54 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 4/8/2024 1:46:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It was amusing watching the comment section turn on Elon over the years. They are for/against the current thing like good little bots, whatever their NPC programmers command. That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Wait till Vilos Cohaagen takes control and cuts the air off |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 2:06:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It was amusing watching the comment section turn on Elon over the years. They are for/against the current thing like good little bots, whatever their NPC programmers command. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. And I'm ok with that. @RustedAce |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 3:05:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Musk can't stand government bureaucracy and regulatory overreach. At the same time, he insists everyone around him have a good idea what's going on and why their doing what they're doing. If the Mars settlement self-selects smart, motivated people that adhere to some sort of fact-based style of governance, he'll be happy to stay hands off. If the colonists are like "hey we need a gov't arts council and a poet laureate and oh yeah three years of subsidized parental leave for gay couples adopting," then he'll weigh in. How much actual influence Musk will have on the Mars settlement is debatable, since most will pay passage to get to Mars or be sponsored by a gov't or corporation (not Musk, Inc.). |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 4:46:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vmpglenn: Musk can't stand government bureaucracy and regulatory overreach. At the same time, he insists everyone around him have a good idea what's going on and why their doing what they're doing. If the Mars settlement self-selects smart, motivated people that adhere to some sort of fact-based style of governance, he'll be happy to stay hands off. If the colonists are like "hey we need a gov't arts council and a poet laureate and oh yeah three years of subsidized parental leave for gay couples adopting," then he'll weigh in. How much actual influence Musk will have on the Mars settlement is debatable, since most will pay passage to get to Mars or be sponsored by a gov't or corporation (not Musk, Inc.). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vmpglenn: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Musk can't stand government bureaucracy and regulatory overreach. At the same time, he insists everyone around him have a good idea what's going on and why their doing what they're doing. If the Mars settlement self-selects smart, motivated people that adhere to some sort of fact-based style of governance, he'll be happy to stay hands off. If the colonists are like "hey we need a gov't arts council and a poet laureate and oh yeah three years of subsidized parental leave for gay couples adopting," then he'll weigh in. How much actual influence Musk will have on the Mars settlement is debatable, since most will pay passage to get to Mars or be sponsored by a gov't or corporation (not Musk, Inc.). Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 4:57:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By vmpglenn: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Musk can't stand government bureaucracy and regulatory overreach. At the same time, he insists everyone around him have a good idea what's going on and why their doing what they're doing. If the Mars settlement self-selects smart, motivated people that adhere to some sort of fact-based style of governance, he'll be happy to stay hands off. If the colonists are like "hey we need a gov't arts council and a poet laureate and oh yeah three years of subsidized parental leave for gay couples adopting," then he'll weigh in. How much actual influence Musk will have on the Mars settlement is debatable, since most will pay passage to get to Mars or be sponsored by a gov't or corporation (not Musk, Inc.). Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. 
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Posted: 4/8/2024 5:04:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryWENDUST? |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 5:09:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By vmpglenn: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Musk can't stand government bureaucracy and regulatory overreach. At the same time, he insists everyone around him have a good idea what's going on and why their doing what they're doing. If the Mars settlement self-selects smart, motivated people that adhere to some sort of fact-based style of governance, he'll be happy to stay hands off. If the colonists are like "hey we need a gov't arts council and a poet laureate and oh yeah three years of subsidized parental leave for gay couples adopting," then he'll weigh in. How much actual influence Musk will have on the Mars settlement is debatable, since most will pay passage to get to Mars or be sponsored by a gov't or corporation (not Musk, Inc.). Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. I can't imagine any colony on Mars being self-sustaining enough to not need any supplies from Earth. So they don't need to control Mars, they just need to control the launch complexes on Earth....basically a space blockade
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Posted: 4/8/2024 5:37:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: I can't imagine any colony on Mars being self-sustaining enough to not need any supplies from Earth. So they don't need to control Mars, they just need to control the launch complexes on Earth....basically a space blockade But this is exactly what Musk is planning: 1,000,000 people + 1,000,000 tons of supplies boosted to Mars from Earth = self-sustaining |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2024 5:48:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. TANSTAAFL |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 7:10:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kanin]
[#13]
Would a Mars colony be hooked up to Earth's internet?
I can see people on Earth following Martians on X or Instagram. And I think Martians would still want to follow Earthlings as well. Along with all the other things that the internet provides. 
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Posted: 4/8/2024 7:24:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: redoubt]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanin: Would a Mars colony be hooked up to Earth's internet? I can see people on Earth following Martians on X or Instagram. And I think Martians would still want to follow Earthlings as well. Along with all the other things that the internet provides. Regardless, even under the best conditions, you'd click a link on a page and it would take 10 minutes for you to start to see the response coming back. The best option would be to have something like the "Way-back Machine" caching the Internet and constantly streaming a copy from Earth to Mars and vice-versa. But considering the amount of content created daily, it would probably be better to have it captured to some sort of physical media and delivered to Mars on the regular supply run rocket and vice-versa. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 7:59:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanin: Would a Mars colony be hooked up to Earth's internet? I can see people on Earth following Martians on X or Instagram. And I think Martians would still want to follow Earthlings as well. Along with all the other things that the internet provides. More like the South Pole. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 8:03:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Couldn't find a YouTube equivalent so you may have to suffer through Facebook. View of the shadow of the eclipse from a Starlink satellite.
https://fb.watch/rkfM74_Zsa/ |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 8:05:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#17]
You mean this?
 FROM SPACE! Solar Eclipse Captured By Starlink Satellite Looked ominous. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 8:06:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: You mean this?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ust2eR3nhJcLooked ominous. Definitely not, Sir. That was obviously filmed from the Southern Hemisphere. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:08:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Couldn't find a YouTube equivalent so you may have to suffer through Facebook. View of the shadow of the eclipse from a Starlink satellite. https://fb.watch/rkfM74_Zsa/ That solar panel had a lot more movement than I would have expected |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 9:23:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: That solar panel had a lot more movement than I would have expected Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: Couldn't find a YouTube equivalent so you may have to suffer through Facebook. View of the shadow of the eclipse from a Starlink satellite. https://fb.watch/rkfM74_Zsa/ That solar panel had a lot more movement than I would have expected At first I didn't realize the video is a time-lapse... but the solar panel is also adjusting to track the sun. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 1:45:07 PM EDT
[#21]
I did not know Starlink sats have cameras.
 
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Posted: 4/9/2024 3:11:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoseCuervo: I did not know Starlink sats have cameras. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 3:26:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TLWrench: Nor did I. Makes me wonder what one could do with enough bandwidth, memory, processing power, and 5,500+ unblinking eyes (perhaps significantly more once Starship enters regular operation) with even the most modest degree of imagery resolution looking down at the Earth? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TLWrench: Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: I did not know Starlink sats have cameras. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:38:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TLWrench: Nor did I. Makes me wonder what one could do with enough bandwidth, memory, processing power, and 5,500+ unblinking eyes (perhaps significantly more once Starship enters regular operation) with even the most modest degree of imagery resolution looking down at the Earth? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TLWrench: Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: I did not know Starlink sats have cameras. Gorgon stare Argus EOSDIS ArcGIS EarthNow! |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:22:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HeavyMetal: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/04/elon-musk-just-gave-another-mars-speech-this-time-the-vision-seems-tangible/?comments=1&comments-page=1 Article is great, comments are almost pure retardium. A lot of the people on arstechnica now hate Musk as bad or worse than they hate Trump. They have been programmed to hate Musk and now have a really virulent case of MDS. Of course, there's a good bit of that going on in GD, too. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:24:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Not a popular thought on here but it couldn't be. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:26:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By David0858: A lot of the people on arstechnica now hate Musk as bad or worse than they hate Trump. They have been programmed to hate Musk and now have a really virulent case of MDS. Of course, there's a good bit of that going on in GD, too. Fact And the dude has singlehandedly done more to support the constitution than any American in the last 100 years and he isn't even a politician, and most likely that is why. He is so fucking rich, he can't be bought. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 8:02:37 PM EDT
[#28]
video
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Posted: 4/10/2024 8:56:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wangstang]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey: video
Is that essentially the same effect that's observed from SR71 engines during takeoff?  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:30:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Those are called Mach Diamonds.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 10:52:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey: video
Easy to see the pressure oscillation in that clip, really cool. I bet without that huge stiffener on the outside of the nozzle it would probably come apart like the early F-1s for Apollo did. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 11:03:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: vmpglenn]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX_Critter: Easy to see the pressure oscillation in that clip, really cool. I bet without that huge stiffener on the outside of the nozzle it would probably come apart like the early F-1s for Apollo did. Yep, plus materials science and computational simulation have advanced so much they would be like science fiction to '60s engineers. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:09:15 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 4/12/2024 12:24:44 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 4/12/2024 12:31:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vmpglenn: Yep, plus materials science and computational simulation have advanced so much they would be like science fiction to '60s engineers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vmpglenn: Originally Posted By TX_Critter: Easy to see the pressure oscillation in that clip, really cool. I bet without that huge stiffener on the outside of the nozzle it would probably come apart like the early F-1s for Apollo did. Yep, plus materials science and computational simulation have advanced so much they would be like science fiction to '60s engineers. They were really pushing everything they had to the ragged limit to get to the moon back then. I'm firmly of the view that they were very lucky that Apollo 13 or some other mission was not a catastrophic failure. Its nice to have a bigger safety margin provided by decades of technological development. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 1:06:29 PM EDT
[#36]
It would be interesting to "run the numbers" from Apollo era missions on today's computer simulations to see how close to the ragged edge they actually came.
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Posted: 4/12/2024 2:50:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: It would be interesting to "run the numbers" from Apollo era missions on today's computer simulations to see how close to the ragged edge they actually came. I believe the F1 engine had a random combustion instability problem that was never fully resolved. I'm not sure if the combustion chamber baffles were an attempt to resolve this, or if they were there and there were still instability issues. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:09:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: I believe the F1 engine had a random combustion instability problem that was never fully resolved. I'm not sure if the combustion chamber baffles were an attempt to resolve this, or if they were there and there were still instability issues. They had POGO problems also. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2024 3:19:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By vmpglenn: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: That said, if someone like Musk actually builds a city on Mars, anyone going to live there would have to understand that democracy is NOT going to be an option. I don't think the people pointing that out are necessarily crazy - it's a valid point. The best analogy is probably a robber baron company town. Personally, I would not have a problem with that, but I can understand why some would. If you are used to the nice cushy existence in a civilized western representative/democratic country and you EXPECT that kind of life, then living on Mars, or in the Asteroid belt or whatever - it NOT going to be a nice experience for you. Heck, a lot of people on this site would be unable to live there, since "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" and "muh individual liberty" is not going to be something that Elon Musk has time to give a fuck about if he is trying to create a viable extra-Earth large settlement. Musk can't stand government bureaucracy and regulatory overreach. At the same time, he insists everyone around him have a good idea what's going on and why their doing what they're doing. If the Mars settlement self-selects smart, motivated people that adhere to some sort of fact-based style of governance, he'll be happy to stay hands off. If the colonists are like "hey we need a gov't arts council and a poet laureate and oh yeah three years of subsidized parental leave for gay couples adopting," then he'll weigh in. How much actual influence Musk will have on the Mars settlement is debatable, since most will pay passage to get to Mars or be sponsored by a gov't or corporation (not Musk, Inc.). Depending on how it plays out, I could easily imagine a Musk-controlled colony on Mars declaring independence at some point ... especially if his company largely controls access to Mars. How are the Brits (i.e. the U.S. government) going to send an army to "take back" the colonies if Musk controls all of the ships that can get there? The legal ambiguities will work hugely in his favor, IMO. It obviously wouldn't happen in the first decade or two, but I bet it will happen. Musk will probably be dead by the time it does, though. As someone else noted, the Expanse is likely the most realistic preview. A mars colony will be 100% controlled by any govt willing and capable to ‘sanction’ them. New zubrin, capital of muskville will listen to the USA whenever the USA wants them too until they can be self sufficient. |
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Posted: 4/12/2024 4:26:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Colonization will take a whole nother level of technology to make life possible without resources from earth. We are in the ideal position in the solar system. Nothing else comes close.
Maybe habitats in orbit a little further out could raise food for exploration, but out past Mars the sunlight would be too dim without some way to enhance it for photosynthesis. I don't see any sort of protein farms in any way. (cows on the moon?) |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:11:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Obo2]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: Colonization will take a whole nother level of technology to make life possible without resources from earth. We are in the ideal position in the solar system. Nothing else comes close. Maybe habitats in orbit a little further out could raise food for exploration, but out past Mars the sunlight would be too dim without some way to enhance it for photosynthesis. I don't see any sort of protein farms in any way. (cows on the moon?) We have pretty much all the pieces to be able to make it work. Foresight, miniaturization and regulations are probably some of the larger hurdles to overcome. Easy enough to run a nuke power plant and hook it up to a few billion leds for food production. It's getting that nuke plant on a ship that is launched from earth where some of the sticking points come in. That and things like producing enough water, steel, concrete and replacement leds or microchips... Then you also have to remember people are retarded and lazy. Maybe a musk clone army could come close in the timeline musk has set out but even your smart motivated people are about half as smart and an 8th as motivated as elon. The average joe much less so, then go ahead and stick joe in a subterranean habitat... |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:22:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: Colonization will take a whole nother level of technology to make life possible without resources from earth. We are in the ideal position in the solar system. Nothing else comes close. Maybe habitats in orbit a little further out could raise food for exploration, but out past Mars the sunlight would be too dim without some way to enhance it for photosynthesis. I don't see any sort of protein farms in any way. (cows on the moon?) Crickets are protein too |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:58:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Crickets are protein too Algae and fish probably make more sense. As for the subject of cows on the moon. That's not very feasible with what we have at the moment. But awhile ago the idea occurred to me that manufacturing of cheese in space would be the point where people besides the most passionate of explorers would be comfortable with living in space. There is a lot of oxygen locked up in rocks on the moon. This would be released through large scale industrial processes. Colonies could be built in existing tunnels under the lunar surface. A single young female cow could be hauled into space relatively cheaply along with enough bovine sperm samples to ensure genetic diversity. Said bovines would probably be fed an algae diet at first. Later on other foods would be grown. Of course this would all be long after keeping humans alive up there would be ironed out. Quite simply if we are going to thrive and not just survive in space we are going to have to export Earths biosphere. Not just individual samples of human beings. People are going to need gardens for at least a dozen different reasons. Fortunately this all becomes easier when we have rockets that carry more than 15,000 pounds and every gram of weight counts. The movie Ad Astra seemed like it had the most stupid version of this concept I have ever seen. Their "relaxation rooms" looked about as relaxing as being shouted at to calm down by an angry moronic giant. |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 11:49:30 AM EDT
[#44]
New YT channel announced that has some jaw-dropping video. Marcus House announced it on his channel.
https://www.youtube.com/@skyshowtv |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 12:51:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Crickets are protein too Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Originally Posted By shooter_gregg: Colonization will take a whole nother level of technology to make life possible without resources from earth. We are in the ideal position in the solar system. Nothing else comes close. Maybe habitats in orbit a little further out could raise food for exploration, but out past Mars the sunlight would be too dim without some way to enhance it for photosynthesis. I don't see any sort of protein farms in any way. (cows on the moon?) Crickets are protein too |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 1:44:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: Too crunchy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: Originally Posted By iwouldntknow: Originally Posted By shooter_gregg: Colonization will take a whole nother level of technology to make life possible without resources from earth. We are in the ideal position in the solar system. Nothing else comes close. Maybe habitats in orbit a little further out could raise food for exploration, but out past Mars the sunlight would be too dim without some way to enhance it for photosynthesis. I don't see any sort of protein farms in any way. (cows on the moon?) Crickets are protein too Blenders are cheap and available. |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 4:04:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: It would be interesting to "run the numbers" from Apollo era missions on today's computer simulations to see how close to the ragged edge they actually came. Pretty much every mission had an inflight issue. A ton of redundancies, remembering obscure procedures, skill, luck and nerves. Apollo 11 As the lunar module "Eagle" descended towards the surface, alarms were triggered due to computer overload caused by an unexpected radar switch being in the wrong position Apollo 12 was twice struck by lightning, causing instrumentation problems but little damage Apollo 13, well known Apollo 14 the first major problem: the crew was unable to dock with the Lunar Module (LM) Apollo 15 mission splashed down safely on August 7 despite the loss of one of its three parachutes. Apollo 16 Two significant command and service module problems—one en route to the moon and one in lunar orbit |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 10:01:30 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Algae and fish probably make more sense. As for the subject of cows on the moon. That's not very feasible with what we have at the moment. But awhile ago the idea occurred to me that manufacturing of cheese in space would be the point where people besides the most passionate of explorers would be comfortable with living in space. There is a lot of oxygen locked up in rocks on the moon. This would be released through large scale industrial processes. Colonies could be built in existing tunnels under the lunar surface. A single young female cow could be hauled into space relatively cheaply along with enough bovine sperm samples to ensure genetic diversity. Said bovines would probably be fed an algae diet at first. Later on other foods would be grown. Of course this would all be long after keeping humans alive up there would be ironed out. Quite simply if we are going to thrive and not just survive in space we are going to have to export Earths biosphere. Not just individual samples of human beings. People are going to need gardens for at least a dozen different reasons. Fortunately this all becomes easier when we have rockets that carry more than 15,000 pounds and every gram of weight counts. The movie Ad Astra seemed like it had the most stupid version of this concept I have ever seen. Their "relaxation rooms" looked about as relaxing as being shouted at to calm down by an angry moronic giant. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By iwouldntknow: Crickets are protein too Algae and fish probably make more sense. As for the subject of cows on the moon. That's not very feasible with what we have at the moment. But awhile ago the idea occurred to me that manufacturing of cheese in space would be the point where people besides the most passionate of explorers would be comfortable with living in space. There is a lot of oxygen locked up in rocks on the moon. This would be released through large scale industrial processes. Colonies could be built in existing tunnels under the lunar surface. A single young female cow could be hauled into space relatively cheaply along with enough bovine sperm samples to ensure genetic diversity. Said bovines would probably be fed an algae diet at first. Later on other foods would be grown. Of course this would all be long after keeping humans alive up there would be ironed out. Quite simply if we are going to thrive and not just survive in space we are going to have to export Earths biosphere. Not just individual samples of human beings. People are going to need gardens for at least a dozen different reasons. Fortunately this all becomes easier when we have rockets that carry more than 15,000 pounds and every gram of weight counts. The movie Ad Astra seemed like it had the most stupid version of this concept I have ever seen. Their "relaxation rooms" looked about as relaxing as being shouted at to calm down by an angry moronic giant. Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson had some interesting takes on taking biospheres to other worlds. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 5:57:57 PM EDT
[#49]
SpaceX Tests SLC-40 Crew Emergency Chute Test
 SpaceX SLC-40 Crew Emergency Chutes Test |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:03:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Algae and fish probably make more sense. As for the subject of cows on the moon. That's not very feasible with what we have at the moment. But awhile ago the idea occurred to me that manufacturing of cheese in space would be the point where people besides the most passionate of explorers would be comfortable with living in space. There is a lot of oxygen locked up in rocks on the moon. This would be released through large scale industrial processes. Colonies could be built in existing tunnels under the lunar surface. A single young female cow could be hauled into space relatively cheaply along with enough bovine sperm samples to ensure genetic diversity. Said bovines would probably be fed an algae diet at first. Later on other foods would be grown. Of course this would all be long after keeping humans alive up there would be ironed out. Quite simply if we are going to thrive and not just survive in space we are going to have to export Earths biosphere. Not just individual samples of human beings. People are going to need gardens for at least a dozen different reasons. Fortunately this all becomes easier when we have rockets that carry more than 15,000 pounds and every gram of weight counts. The movie Ad Astra seemed like it had the most stupid version of this concept I have ever seen. Their "relaxation rooms" looked about as relaxing as being shouted at to calm down by an angry moronic giant. Separating different elements from the asteroids requires either a gravity well or a centrifuge. The Moon or Mars are convenient places with enough gravity to process asteroids before we construct a rotating station to be a centrifuge. Construct rotating cylinders... Light source down the center. The entire inner surface is farm. Orbital farm cylinders provide food for any colonies. ... put engines on them and they're interstellar generation ships. The problem this faces is the same problem vertical farms here on Earth are facing right now. 1. Power. We'll need efficient long lasting cheap power generation... Nuclear or Fusion. 2. Sealed environments with recycled air and water... have been touted as a benefit to vertical farms... meaning it'd be easy to control the environment for ideal growth. In practice bugs and disease still get in and the recycling spreads infestations and disease faster than it would outside and way faster than it can be detected and mitigated resulting in massive crop failures. losts of research and development will need to take place to enable exporting our biosphere off Earth no matter where we want to export that biosphere to. |
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