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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:44:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m:  Some systems excepted, the Russian weapons are working as intended and are still devastating Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: There has to be some serious buyers remorse out there in more than a few countries after the performance of Russian equipment in this war.  I bet! Their best performers so far have been the lancet and maybe the T72 ejection seats... Some systems excepted, the Russian weapons are working as intended and are still devastating Ukraine. Unfortunately, against Ukraine, which had a majority of leftover export Soviet equipment yes, but against any NATO Western countries weapons systems, no. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:45:24 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:46:19 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:30:34 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:32:29 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:34:48 AM EDT
[#6]
 
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:40:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Some people have common sense when it comes to war.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:40:57 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:42:05 AM EDT
[#9]
which he expects to be announced soon. Mr. Stoltenberg called Allies to "dig deep into inventories." |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:25:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some people have common sense when it comes to war.
But they are never the ones who control the supply of the long range weapons. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:26:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Dutch.gov providing extra $250 million for Ukrainian air defence.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 1:17:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By speedy66: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By speedy66: Originally Posted By Flogger23m: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: I'm hearing that Syrski is aggressively converting a lot of people from rear roles and from branches like the Air Force into infantrymen. At this point, it seems like tens of thousands of people. There are rumblings that in certain training centers, the instructors are overwhelmingly working with re-training personnel who used to be in the rear, as opposed to freshly mobilized soldiers. I think this might be a reason why Ukrainian political leadership wasn't aggressively pushing for a expansive mobilization bill: this is the solution. There was an article recently that quoted Zelenskyy, and he suggested that mobilization of large numbers wasn't necessary, as the UAF could find the troops themselves, or at least something along those lines. So, that was what the audit was for. We'll have to see how this plays out. If it's done right, they can find a number of replacements, though it is a dangerous technique to replenish losses without relying on increased mobilization. Even if it's done right, this is only something that can be done once, and it's very easy to abuse and send the wrong people to the front. Not everyone has the right physical and mental constitution to be an infantryman, especially in a war like this one. For instance, I could handle a support role, but I would not be a good infantryman for myriad reasons, and I'm in better shape than most and a halfway decent marksman. Additionally, if abused, it runs the risk of robbing necessary support units of needed manpower. Overall, though, there does appear to be a good bit of fat to cut of of the UAF. The system as a whole doesn't strike me as being very efficient. Lots of us were dooming about Syrski when he replaced Zaluzhny, but I've got to say, I see why Zaluzhny had to go, and I think Syrski has been making some good decisions (another one being reshuffling around 67th mechanized due to poor performance and abuse of new conscripts, in spite of it being a Right Sector heavy unit with political connections). Zaluzhny was calling for the mobilization of hundreds of thousands of men, without even having bothered to audit his own service to know if they had additional manpower that could be freed up... Doesn’t look good. Logistics wins wars. Sounds like pulling that for infinentry. The other problem is troops in the rear or in support roles are typically doing something. Logistics and repairs are just as important as the fighters. If some guy working on tank repairs for two years is thrown into an infantry role it means a less experienced person will replace him. I'm sure the logistics and maintenance troops have gotten more streamlined over time. Loosing them can have consequences down the line. It depends. While western militaries (and especially the US) are often accused of "Logistic Bloat" in the force structure, a lot of Soviet-based armies have problems with "Administrative Bloat"; where, absent a professional NCO corps, proper contracting functions, etc, a lot of nit-noid administrative functions were handled "in-house" at rank levels/staffing that boggle the mind of anyone who came up in the US, Philippine, or one of the Commonwealth armies. Think Lieutenants, Senior Lieutenants, and Captains for any role requiring a Corporal or higher in the US Army/Marine Corps. Also, a lot of functions, such as maintenance, have headquarters overseeing headquarters above the wrench turners, split chains of command/authority for almost any specialty, etc. with duplicative chains of command and authority, as well as different priorities, trying to simultaneously manage the same people, and to hell with Unity of Command. Also, the recent Ukrainian experience has probably uncovered what is useful in their force structure, what needs improved, and what can be done away with. Plus, the Uke military has done about two decades of modernization and automation in the last two years, and computers and improved digital comms have probably made a lot of clerks, couriers, the officers supervising the staff, and even whole levels of monitoring/control redundant. If the cuts are thought through and executed well, it could actually improve the efficiency of the loggies and wrench turners by removing the need to navigate through sundry levels of military bureaucracy to be effective. Look at how many clerk-type admin jobs have disappeared from the US military since the 1970's. While the US military probably took things a little far, there is still plenty of fat that can be culled in the Uke system.  |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 1:41:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BillofRights]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Some systems excepted, the Russian weapons are working as intended and are still devastating Ukraine. The individual Russian soldiers have shown great courage, but the weapons have (mostly) failed miserably. Sure, they’ve devastated Ukraine, but they certainly haven’t worked as intended. Those weapons were intended to defend against the Major Powers, Nato, and China. The fact that they couldn’t conquer a lightly armed, desperately poor neighboring country, even when starting out with the tactical surprise of a sneak attack; is a very concerning thing. The fact that they wasted Half of their military trying, is more than just an embarrassment. It’s a complete disaster, from a National Strategic defense standpoint. Don’t forget, those Tanks and BMP’s were mostly intended to intimidate and stomp out Domestic threats to the regime. Now, it’s been clearly demonstrated how very susceptible the few remaining hulks are, to destruction from $500 hobby grade drones. They better figure out a way to make better ones, Fast. The glide bombs have been effective, because Russia has retained air superiority Behind their own front lines. But, they should have had total air superiority over Ukraine within the first couple days. Some of the missiles and UAVs get through of course, such is War. But they don’t have a way to replace the sophisticated ones. All they’ve really accomplished, is providing the world best proving ground for the West’s Military Industrial Complex. And whatever We learned, China will soon learn too. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:33:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Unfortunately, against Ukraine, which had a majority of leftover export Soviet equipment yes, but against any NATO Western countries weapons systems, no. Not doubting your expertise (especially since I agree...). But I have to wonder if in a future RU .vs NATO conflict, would Russia's numbers overwhelm NATO technical superiority. Like 100 shitty T62's .vs 5 Leo II's. This is also assuming a strong and unified response from NATO. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:38:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
So those deranged orc lunatics lost 314 vehicles (confirmed?) trying to take that small town? Is this not like WWII loses or ever greater?!? |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:39:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
EVERYONE should be ordering Patriot systems after seeing Ukraine and now Israel. Shit, I would buy one for my house if I could afford it. (come on PSA!). |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:43:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLiWGjwW4AAna6o?format=jpg&name=large IF Ukraine could ever solve that riddle and mass produce a 500+ Km range missile, maybe a few dozen per month, I cannot see how Russia could continue this shitshow. Not without going full tactical nukes. I cannot imagine the Russian people, stupid, stubborn, brainwashed etc. taking the same level of punishment as the Ukrainian people have been taking daily for the past 2 years. Not that Ukrainians are tougher etc than the Russians but Ukraine has NO choice. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:55:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: It depends. While western militaries (and especially the US) are often accused of "Logistic Bloat" in the force structure, a lot of Soviet-based armies have problems with "Administrative Bloat"; where, absent a professional NCO corps, proper contracting functions, etc, a lot of nit-noid administrative functions were handled "in-house" at rank levels/staffing that boggle the mind of anyone who came up in the US, Philippine, or one of the Commonwealth armies. Think Lieutenants, Senior Lieutenants, and Captains for any role requiring a Corporal or higher in the US Army/Marine Corps. Also, a lot of functions, such as maintenance, have headquarters overseeing headquarters above the wrench turners, split chains of command/authority for almost any specialty, etc. with duplicative chains of command and authority, as well as different priorities, trying to simultaneously manage the same people, and to hell with Unity of Command. Also, the recent Ukrainian experience has probably uncovered what is useful in their force structure, what needs improved, and what can be done away with. Plus, the Uke military has done about two decades of modernization and automation in the last two years, and computers and improved digital comms have probably made a lot of clerks, couriers, the officers supervising the staff, and even whole levels of monitoring/control redundant. If the cuts are thought through and executed well, it could actually improve the efficiency of the loggies and wrench turners by removing the need to navigate through sundry levels of military bureaucracy to be effective. Look at how many clerk-type admin jobs have disappeared from the US military since the 1970's. While the US military probably took things a little far, there is still plenty of fat that can be culled in the Uke system. I only have my LE experience to add but the uglier and nastier the job, the fewer and fewer people available. A 1500 "man" department will have hundreds of supervisors "supervising" one person, doing paperwork, playing basketball on the fully staffed Community Affairs unit but somehow the Dept. can only muster a few people when it's time to wrestle the naked guy covered in blood. There are always tons of people hiding... |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:16:06 PM EDT
[#19]
If I remember correctly, the last time (and first time?) a TU-22 was shot down was when Georgian Air Defense Forces shot down a Russian TU-22MR back in 2008 during that shitshow.
Hopefully we'll get some more information/proof of the shootdown.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:26:15 PM EDT
[#20]
It is evident the the Ukrainian Educational system is far superior to the Russian system.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:36:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Not doubting your expertise (especially since I agree...). But I have to wonder if in a future RU .vs NATO conflict, would Russia's numbers overwhelm NATO technical superiority. Like 100 shitty T62's .vs 5 Leo II's. This is also assuming a strong and unified response from NATO. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Unfortunately, against Ukraine, which had a majority of leftover export Soviet equipment yes, but against any NATO Western countries weapons systems, no. Not doubting your expertise (especially since I agree...). But I have to wonder if in a future RU .vs NATO conflict, would Russia's numbers overwhelm NATO technical superiority. Like 100 shitty T62's .vs 5 Leo II's. This is also assuming a strong and unified response from NATO. That has been in the calculations for decades. Nope, Hellfires for everyone from 8 to 15km with Apaches, others plinked from aircraft dropping cheap guided glide bombs. There are multiple solutions to the problem they have been trying to create for us, and we keep getting more efficient at eliminating the problems. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:49:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Yep, the bomblets spun out from the nose section.
  
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Posted: 4/19/2024 3:51:18 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: theskuh]
[#24]
Did anyone post a map of where the bomber got shot down? S200 has what a 190mi range? Are they truck launching them close to the front? Sorry been putting in the hours at work recently and have missed a page or two.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:37:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theskuh: Did anyone post a map of where the bomber got shot down? S200 has what a 190mi range? Are they truck launching them close to the front? Sorry been putting in the hours at work recently and have missed a page or two. UA has developed a mobile launcher for their S-200s. Someone probably knows what they look like but it ain't us. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:38:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#26]
There is alot of equipment prepositioned and ready to flow into Ukraine very soon, within the next few weeks.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:39:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: UA has developed a mobile launcher for their S-200s. Someone probably knows what they look like but it ain't us. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By theskuh: Did anyone post a map of where the bomber got shot down? S200 has what a 190mi range? Are they truck launching them close to the front? Sorry been putting in the hours at work recently and have missed a page or two. UA has developed a mobile launcher for their S-200s. Someone probably knows what they look like but it ain't us. Most likely this, plus the latest Polish updated versions could reach out to 350km. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:52:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
I keep hearing that about like, everywhere. But there still seems to be plenty more. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:54:05 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:55:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: But they are never the ones who control the supply of the long range weapons. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some people have common sense when it comes to war.
But they are never the ones who control the supply of the long range weapons. Hopefully this is intended to shift public perception to make it okay for the United States to hand over weapons and allow the ukrainians to use them for war instead of only for Homeland defense. Hopefully it's finally time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:55:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Oh no! Anyway... |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:56:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I keep hearing that about like, everywhere. But there still seems to be plenty more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
I keep hearing that about like, everywhere. But there still seems to be plenty more. There is, but months ago the Ukrainian army said they would continue to grind them down from advantageous defensive positions. The Russian equipment keeps getting more ghetto every month. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:04:18 PM EDT
[#33]
You can hear the cluster munitions hitting as the ATACMS come in.
Full length telegram link. https://t.me/Crimeanwind/57994 |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:08:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Most likely this, plus the latest Polish updated versions could reach out to 350km. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By theskuh: Did anyone post a map of where the bomber got shot down? S200 has what a 190mi range? Are they truck launching them close to the front? Sorry been putting in the hours at work recently and have missed a page or two. UA has developed a mobile launcher for their S-200s. Someone probably knows what they look like but it ain't us. Most likely this, plus the latest Polish updated versions could reach out to 350km. The CEP would suck without a better guidance package but those sound like they would make a good long range strike platform. Have Joe down the hall ring up Leonid in Dnipro and see what that can come up with. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:10:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Hopefully this is intended to shift public perception to make it okay for the United States to hand over weapons and allow the ukrainians to use them for war instead of only for Homeland defense. Hopefully it's finally time. My original hope when seeing the slow walking of aid and the ridiculous rules of engagement was that the administration wanted a Hollywood finish to this war right by November 2024 but can't see how they can pull this off now. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:12:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: You can hear the cluster munitions hitting as the ATACMS come in.
Full length telegram link. https://t.me/Crimeanwind/57994 Holy shit that's a lotta popcorn. Nice secondary at 1:15ish |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:13:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Good. Communist prick. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:15:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Banditman: It is evident the the Ukrainian Educational system is far superior to the Russian system. The two being indistinguishable, I'm afraid the explanation is that Ukraine has drafted its best and brightest while Russia is disposing of its bio trash. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:18:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: My original hope when seeing the slow walking of aid and the ridiculous rules of engagement was that the administration wanted a Hollywood finish to this war right by November 2024 but can't see how they can pull this off now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: Originally Posted By stone-age: Hopefully this is intended to shift public perception to make it okay for the United States to hand over weapons and allow the ukrainians to use them for war instead of only for Homeland defense. Hopefully it's finally time. My original hope when seeing the slow walking of aid and the ridiculous rules of engagement was that the administration wanted a Hollywood finish to this war right by November 2024 but can't see how they can pull this off now. It's my belief that the US plan is to give Ukraine just enough weapons to keep going so they can keep chewing up the Russian military until finally the ukrainians have burned through all of their resources and done it as much damage to the Russian military as they can, and then encourage the ukrainians to give up land for peace. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:53:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It gets better. https://russiavsworld.org/russell-bentley-texan-pro-putin-fighter-and-russian-propagandist-found-decapitated-in-russian-controlled-donetsk/ |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:56:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Reports of Ukrainian jet drones used.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:58:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: It gets better. https://russiavsworld.org/russell-bentley-texan-pro-putin-fighter-and-russian-propagandist-found-decapitated-in-russian-controlled-donetsk/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It gets better. https://russiavsworld.org/russell-bentley-texan-pro-putin-fighter-and-russian-propagandist-found-decapitated-in-russian-controlled-donetsk/ Wow, all pro Russians take note. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 6:24:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#43]
 
 
   
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Posted: 4/19/2024 6:24:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Putin on Switzerland's plans to hold a peace summit on Ukraine without Russia's participation.
Russian soldiers fighting: Russian soldier suffering in Ukraine: Ukrainian soldier clears Russian Trench with an anti-tank mine: |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 6:38:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#45]
I don't know nothin', but this looks like smart people talk.
 
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:22:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLiWGjwW4AAna6o?format=jpg&name=large |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:23:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:29:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Banditman: It is evident the the Ukrainian Educational system is far superior to the Russian system. Ukraines education system is actually pretty damn good. But, even Alabama's educational system is far superior to the Russian system. And as someone educated in Alabama, that ain't saying much for Russia.
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:39:35 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 7:40:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: It gets better. https://russiavsworld.org/russell-bentley-texan-pro-putin-fighter-and-russian-propagandist-found-decapitated-in-russian-controlled-donetsk/ That's kind of weird? Anybody have any descent theories? The way he runs his mouth I'm betting he just said the wrong thing to somebody who will actually do something about it. |
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