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Link Posted: 5/4/2024 5:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak] [#1]
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Originally Posted By rdsr:
Mothers deposition..... Pg 80, line 15 onward..... WOW
Roy
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Yeah between that and the father refusing to answer a direct question at the end was like, retards are us thought this was a case.  That doesn’t even include where both depositions conflicted each other in key areas and the mental health of the entire family seems to be uh, questionable.


ETA….I also think it is noteworthy they didn’t not spank their kids, both had or have some type mental drugs to deal with life.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 6:01:29 AM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By bigbore:



I just checked it. Yesterday they renewed the estate for 1 year.   The door isn't closed yet.  They are at least keeping it open long enough to hold over my head.
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How many times could they try and reopen the case, is there a limit?

Example, they do this same horseshit a year from now, again dismiss the case….do they get another year to refile it all over again?

Of corse with the parents being in their 70’s I would have to assume eventually when they both pass away they case couldn’t be opened again.  So in this respect there is a limit but it is variable. Maybe this is incorrect….I am not a lawyer.

I also thought it was interesting to see the an anti-gun comments of the mother where people shouldn’t own guns but her father appeared to be a competitive shooter.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 6:05:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak] [#3]
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Originally Posted By bigbore:
Now this is some slimy I'll say perjury bullshit.

How can the mom file with probate to keep the estate open for another year because of the upcoming trial.   Then the NEXT DAY dismiss the suit?  I find it hard to believe she didn't know her lawyers were filing to dismiss.  She knew damn well there was not going to be a trial on the 21st.   Maybe the parents really are going to keep looking for someone to refile against me?   Good Luck.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12678/keep_open-3204609.jpg



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Wonder if the slimy lawyers on the other side said they needed to keep the estate opened just in case the trial dragged out, unlikely though.

Either way with the current testimonies on the record it would be a “hard row to hoe” from now on.  If they did refile the case they are the dumbest clusterfucks on the planet.

ETA… congrats on the win
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 6:47:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Congrats!  Consider countersuing for time and effort. The estate may not have money in it now but eventually will from the shake down effort.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 6:58:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Congratulations, I have been following this from the beginning and it has made me sick.  I hope you are able to relax a little now and have a cocktail to celebrate 🍺.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 7:12:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 7:23:11 AM EDT
[#7]
About time! Congrats!
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 7:36:58 AM EDT
[#8]
I have followed this since the OP, congrats ADCO on standing!
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 7:45:41 AM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Ha ha! Wonder how much time the plaintiff's lawyers wasted on this case. I lost two (combined basically) cases on motion once and I'm still pissed decades later lol
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Should we assume The Brady Alliance paid the filing fees, ex-spurt witnesses, etc, but the plaintiff's attorneys' time was limited to contingency fees?
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 8:08:54 AM EDT
[#10]
I've been waiting a very long time to read this.

Congratulations. Sorry it cost you a ton on money to defend yourself against a lawsuit that never should have been filed.

I AM glad you and your insurance company stood from. Maybe even sleezy law forms will stop taking these cases when the easy money train dries up.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 8:21:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigbore] [#11]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 8:48:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 9:17:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 9:34:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak] [#14]
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Originally Posted By bigbore:



As I said before -  Imagine my lawyers cross examining him in front of a jury. Do you see now why I was in no way afraid of a trial?
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Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By braapJob:

It was fucking insanity. I had to read the addlebrained dad’s responses 2-3 times because he just kept avoiding any and all accountability with an actual answer. The last lawyer asking “how did we get from suing Jerry to suing Steve/ADCO” made me want to rip out whats left of my hair. Simple question, mental gymnastics non-answer.



As I said before -  Imagine my lawyers cross examining him in front of a jury. Do you see now why I was in no way afraid of a trial?



I mean if you look at the total package.  Both the mom and the dad heard the gunshot. NEITHER of them got up to investigate any strange noise in the house.  The dad knew she was suicidal, the mom probably just refused to admit her daughter was but deep down knew. Then the dad saying he thought it happened while at work…really?  

I almost think the story of them saying she should have been gone was a cover up because they were in panic that a gun was in the house to start with, well at least feels that way.  Probably them yelling at each other blaming one another why didn’t you get her committed.

If I hear some strange pop in my house I am going to find out WTF it was. Then again it’s been proven over and over, this nation is full of idiots.

Link Posted: 5/4/2024 9:57:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:03:30 AM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By bigbore:
The bad guys lawyers filed a R.41 dismissal.   In Ohio that means they have 1 year to start it all over again, but as of today it's over.

This entire thing was a bullshit bluff all along.  We called them on it and didn't offer a penny in settlement.  They knew they would never win at trial so they quit.  

They can refile, but  their lawyers know its a lost cause and, and I can't imagine any other lawyers will want to pick this up and expect a different outcome.

Thanks for all the support, it's been a wild ride, and fortunately the bad guys lost.

To better understand how bad the trial would have gone for them read this  - parents depositions.   Imagine my attorneys cross examining them in front of a jury!

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Having now read the entire disposition, I think your lawyers did a marvelous job.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Praise be to God it is over in your favor
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:04:59 AM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By bigbore:



My coffers are fine...
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Gotcha.

I am glad to hear, at least for now, this is over.

Hopefully you're available if the need arises, if and when the next business is targeted for advice.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:05:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Thank fuck.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:11:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RockolaM1:
Glad it's over, been following this thread for a while.

It sucks that after two years of dealing with this frivolous lawsuit, they can slink away without having to reimburse your legal fees.
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Yep.

That part is completely unjust.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:16:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Congratulations!


If you ever need cutting fluid or anything for your shop. DM me. It’ll be on the house.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:25:43 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:29:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigbore:



That deposition was the turning point I think for my lawyers.  Going into it I was the defendant who kept saying "They have nothing, I did nothing wrong".  (which I'm sure they hear all the time) to then me saying - "I told you so" :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO:


Having now read the entire disposition, I think your lawyers did a marvelous job.



That deposition was the turning point I think for my lawyers.  Going into it I was the defendant who kept saying "They have nothing, I did nothing wrong".  (which I'm sure they hear all the time) to then me saying - "I told you so" :)


Yes indeed.

Have you been able to upgrade your store security cams to record/store interactions better/longer? I remember it was mentioned early on, but didn't see anything else.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:32:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Danny Meadows guy sounds like he broke every rule of expert testimony rules.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:59:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigbore:


Depends on how you calculate it.  
In checks written just for "lawsuit stuff" under $15K.
I had to close my shop to attend the depositions, court ordered meetings, drive downtown and pay for parking.   Lost business and lost personal time has a value to me, but not sure how to price that.
I paid an extra $10K a year in insurance the last 2 years that I don't believe I'd be paying if this didn't happen.  Actually, the insurance carrier  I found to replace my carrier that dropped me - also dropped me last month.  (No one wants you if you have an open claim with a death) I did find another carrier at the last minute, at an even higher rate. With my new carrier, my next premium is due before the year expires so I'll count that as another 10K if they renew.

By my math - my bank account will have at least $50K less in it because of this lawsuit - *If I get reasonable insurance when this really over.   That money has to come from somewhere, and I see it as coming from my annual SEP (retirement) contribution.  So the kick in my nuts at the end of the day is this will cost me a year of my life that I will have to delay retirement to compensate to meet my retirement funding goals.  


And don't ask my wife about the lost sleep, nightmares, "parts not working as they should" etc in the first few months as I was trying to figure out what I did wrong.  I was convinced they had to have something on me to do this, and it ate me up because I couldn't think of anything they could have.



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The process is the punishment.  I’m not sure how the 2A community counters this.

The other side need to feel that same financial pain x 2.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:59:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigbore:


Depends on how you calculate it.  
In checks written just for "lawsuit stuff" under $15K.
I had to close my shop to attend the depositions, court ordered meetings, drive downtown and pay for parking.   Lost business and lost personal time has a value to me, but not sure how to price that.
I paid an extra $10K a year in insurance the last 2 years that I don't believe I'd be paying if this didn't happen.  Actually, the insurance carrier  I found to replace my carrier that dropped me - also dropped me last month.  (No one wants you if you have an open claim with a death) I did find another carrier at the last minute, at an even higher rate. With my new carrier, my next premium is due before the year expires so I'll count that as another 10K if they renew.

By my math - my bank account will have at least $50K less in it because of this lawsuit - *If I get reasonable insurance when this really over.   That money has to come from somewhere, and I see it as coming from my annual SEP (retirement) contribution.  So the kick in my nuts at the end of the day is this will cost me a year of my life that I will have to delay retirement to compensate to meet my retirement funding goals.  


And don't ask my wife about the lost sleep, nightmares, "parts not working as they should" etc in the first few months as I was trying to figure out what I did wrong.  I was convinced they had to have something on me to do this, and it ate me up because I couldn't think of anything they could have.



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PLCAA lawsuit against the estate and anyone who supported (Brady) their lawsuit?
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:05:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Here! Here! Good Man!
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:08:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:27:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AFARR:




PLCAA lawsuit against the estate and anyone who supported (Brady) their lawsuit?
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Absent a specific statutory liability on the part of the attorneys, the only entity who has liability here is the estate itself.  It has $0.00 in assets, and will never gain any more.  So suing it is pointless.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 11:56:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
It might be worthwhile to continue to pursue the improper order reinstating the estate if possible. If the estate is ended, there'd be no way to refile.
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Exactly.  They filed to close the estate which was granted.  Anything after that should be objectionable.  Their nunc pro tunc or what-the-heck-ever was improperly filed/granted, so at this point there is no estate and the statute of limitations is over.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 3:45:03 PM EDT
[#32]
1 hoodie on the way!

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 3:53:13 PM EDT
[#33]
You would be a fool to think they won’t try again within the year.  Their request to dismiss in the manner they did, right after they filed the extension basically guarantees that is the case.  Heck, you even called it earlier in the thread.

I suspect they know you are elated it’s “over” and know you have spent a lot of money.  Once they start the process again they will hope you are worn down for a quick settlement rather than another lengthy process.

The process is the punishment.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:03:31 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm glad this has worked out so far.  Fingers crossed that they don't go in for round 2.  

If they were to refile and try again, would the depositions from the first case be of any use in the second?  Part of me can't help but think they realized they made numerous errors because they were expecting a quick settlement and they just want a little time to regroup and get an expert witness that has more than two brain cells.  And coach their clients a lot more than they did.  We're talking about anti-gun groups here.  They're going to want the money and publicity.  Being handed a loss of any kind, including dismissing their own case, has to be a shot to their ego they would like to avenge.
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:06:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:11:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cbsaf:
You would be a fool to think they won’t try again within the year.  Their request to dismiss in the manner they did, right after they filed the extension basically guarantees that is the case.  Heck, you even called it earlier in the thread.

I suspect they know you are elated it’s “over” and know you have spent a lot of money.  Once they start the process again they will hope you are worn down for a quick settlement rather than another lengthy process.

The process is the punishment.
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The next time won't be on contingency and parents won't be willing to pay for it.  They were in to get some money for nothing with no investment out of pocket....
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:20:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:33:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Is there any merit in your insurance lawyers filing against the improper reopening of the Estate to try and quash this additional year's period?
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 4:35:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 5/4/2024 10:43:14 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By bigbore:



Everyone should share  THIS FB post
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Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Mr Expert Witness needs to be Zumboed into his 87th job.




Everyone should share  THIS FB post

Link Posted: 5/5/2024 2:41:25 AM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By OSUBeaver:

I've read almost this entire thing.  Holy crap OP.

TL;DR it is batshit crazy and kind of goes like

Q: Was your daughter crazy?
A: Nope
Q: Was she ever in a mental institution?
A:  Well there was a couple times
Q: Did she ever talk about killing herself
A: Well she said she wanted to die

That's not an accurate account, but it is that crazy.  A whole lot of attempts to deflect and "not remember," and blame anybody else other than the batshit crazy family.
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Originally Posted By OSUBeaver:
Originally Posted By bigbore:

- parents depositions

I've read almost this entire thing.  Holy crap OP.

TL;DR it is batshit crazy and kind of goes like

Q: Was your daughter crazy?
A: Nope
Q: Was she ever in a mental institution?
A:  Well there was a couple times
Q: Did she ever talk about killing herself
A: Well she said she wanted to die

That's not an accurate account, but it is that crazy.  A whole lot of attempts to deflect and "not remember," and blame anybody else other than the batshit crazy family.

That and just refusing to answer about how they contacted the Brady group (or vice-versa) to pursue the lawsuit.
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 2:52:04 AM EDT
[#42]
I wished your lawyer asked the dad “if she had killed herself via hanging, would you have googled how to sue the rope mfg, and if not why?”
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 2:54:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattpsky:
I wished your lawyer asked the dad “if she had killed herself via hanging, would you have googled how to sue the rope mfg store that legally sold the rope, and if not why?”
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Fixed
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 3:08:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Awesome news!
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 3:57:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer] [#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigbore:


@PepePewPew

HERE  is their contract.

Their lawyers have time in:
Writing the complaint
Submitting and going through discovery
2 lawyers have 4 hours on the road + 1 hour for Zohn to show up to his deposition that he skipped. + the recorder and videographer they hired.
1 lawyer has 4 hours on the road + 2 hours of deposition for zohn. + the recorder and videographer they hired.
1 Lawyer has 4 hours on the road + 4 hours of depositions for the parents.
They had to respond to the Motion to dismiss because of the closed estate.
1 lawyer had 3 hours on zoom in my deposition + the recorder and videographer they hired.
They had to another attorney reopen the estate.
1 lawyer wrote the demand letter.
They had to pay for two expert witness reports which according to the experts depositions totaled $9,000.00
1 lawyer had 1 hour in a zoom deposition for the gun expert deposition
1 lawyer had 1 hour in a zoom deposition for the suicide expert deposition
They had to respond to the motion for summary judgment.
1 lawyer has 4 hours on the road and 2 hours in a mediation meeting.

If you add their time and expenses, they cannot be happy today.
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Originally Posted By bigbore:
Originally Posted By PepePewPew:


Should we assume The Brady Alliance paid the filing fees, ex-spurt witnesses, etc, but the plaintiff's attorneys' time was limited to contingency fees?


@PepePewPew

HERE  is their contract.

Their lawyers have time in:
Writing the complaint
Submitting and going through discovery
2 lawyers have 4 hours on the road + 1 hour for Zohn to show up to his deposition that he skipped. + the recorder and videographer they hired.
1 lawyer has 4 hours on the road + 2 hours of deposition for zohn. + the recorder and videographer they hired.
1 Lawyer has 4 hours on the road + 4 hours of depositions for the parents.
They had to respond to the Motion to dismiss because of the closed estate.
1 lawyer had 3 hours on zoom in my deposition + the recorder and videographer they hired.
They had to another attorney reopen the estate.
1 lawyer wrote the demand letter.
They had to pay for two expert witness reports which according to the experts depositions totaled $9,000.00
1 lawyer had 1 hour in a zoom deposition for the gun expert deposition
1 lawyer had 1 hour in a zoom deposition for the suicide expert deposition
They had to respond to the motion for summary judgment.
1 lawyer has 4 hours on the road and 2 hours in a mediation meeting.

If you add their time and expenses, they cannot be happy today.



Since those are just the road hours - doubtless they have a good number of hours back at the office as well.  That law firm racked up solid 5 figures chasing this shit-show.  Probably crowded 6.  Not to mention the opportunity cost while chasing this loser instead.  Good - Fuck Them,  skeevy fucks
 At some point they knew this was bullshit and a shakedown - and kept going.  They knew damned well the judge should have tossed this, and kept going.  Fuckers.  

The parents lost a daughter- that will fuck you up and you'll chase and do some irrational shit.  Fuck them anyway, but at least they have the excuse of the emotional impact fucking up their right and wrong.  Hope they lost on this too - and they probably did, with time investment and certainly some expenses.   Fuck them, but yea.

But the law firm - those guys are supposed to be the dispassionate professionals.  And this was so very not that.  They knew damned well what they were doing.  Fuck them.  Hope they didn't learn a damned thing and self drive themselves and their questionable firm that pushed this shit into the ground.

I looked up those guys to see just what firm was one that would take such a case  - and to be sure to remember them.  It's a big mill of a firm.  I can't help but wonder if there's a senior partner review of all cases right before trial, and with that a major WTF? and bitchslap of this B team.  I can only hope so.  Probably not though - leadership sets the tone, and B team thought this was a case to chase.
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 4:02:18 AM EDT
[#46]
I hope it's over for good. This is just one of the many examples how the American legal system is a disgrace.
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 4:47:40 AM EDT
[#47]
ADCO wins.  Hell yes!
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 5:16:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 5/5/2024 5:38:18 AM EDT
[#49]
congrats
sorry you had to go thru this


this lawfare is ridiculous

Link Posted: 5/5/2024 5:42:59 AM EDT
[#50]
So happy this is over for you!

I was involved in a lawsuit.  We refused to settle.  Kept appealing for years because the lower courts were stupid. Finally the Sixth Circuit court reversed for us.  Lawsuit filed in 2013.  Sixth Circuit settled it in 2019.

Family's attorney finally said he's done (fucking Terry Gilbert).  Family didn't try again because they didn't want to pay someone.

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