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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:05:24 PM EDT
[#1]
In.
This is utter BS and I'm sorry that you're having to deal with it. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:05:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AngryCaveman: Me too. I quite like adco ADCO is the first AR smith I had work done all those years ago. And they always did good work. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:06:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#3]
Deleted
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:06:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Whoever wrote the complaint should be easy pickings, probably doesn't know which end of the tube a bullet comes out of. The complaint says straw purchases is one of the "main ways" people that aren't able to obtain guns get them. How many "main ways" can there be,?
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:07:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Good luck ADCO. You guys are good dudes and always did great work for me. I hope you win and get to recover your legal fees.
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:08:25 PM EDT
[#6]
"Give send go" would probably be better than gofuckyourselfs.
I am in for some sort of support, that is pure BS. 
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:10:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? Just don't use gofundme. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:12:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: zephyr]
[#8]
Completely BS lawsuit. Like you (or any good FFL) would risk it all for the $20 profit one would make on that sale.
 I have sent you a bunch of work over the years and you set the bar for prompt, professional, and quality work. I am sure you will prevail but it may be a PITA. Forum overloards - If anyone here has ever deserved our support it is bigbore, please let us help him out with fundraising. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:12:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: This is incorrect under abramski. Not following you ? |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:13:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Texaspyro21: Legal fund that we can donate to? |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:13:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TT4life: Good luck OP. Y’all did some work for me a long time ago and it was top notch. Didn’t you post this 1-2 weeks ago? Same here. This upper came from ADCO and Steve actually followed up to make sure that the order was correct.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:14:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notmynameo1: Gofuckme would just shut it down. Lets not keep making the same mistakes, it makes us look retarded. Maybe try givesendgo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notmynameo1: Originally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? Gofuckme would just shut it down. Lets not keep making the same mistakes, it makes us look retarded. Maybe try givesendgo. Wherever the acct gets set up, just update the title so we know where to go... |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:15:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Buffecmer: Whoever wrote the complaint should be easy pickings, probably doesn't know which end of the tube a bullet comes out of. The complaint says straw purchases is one of the "main ways" people that aren't able to obtain guns get them. How many "main ways" can there be,? The police report says that the idiot bought the gun for a crazy person because she was worried she had mental health issues and didn't think she'd pass a background check. That idiot is in deep shit but ADCO has no liability unless they can prove that he knew it was a straw purchase. I'm sure (in fact I've seen with my own eyes) that gun stores get "weird" people in there shops all the time. This is just an ambulance chaser throwing everything but the kitchen sink and hoping as much sticks as possible. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:15:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#14]
deleted
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:16:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#15]
deleted
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:16:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Damn, this sucks my friend.
Prayers out for sure. Sounds like we need to get some local or online fundraisers going. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:16:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: colossians323]
[#17]
Originally Posted By bigbore: I have turned everything over to Insurance, waiting on approval. I'll be retaining a personal attorney Monday. Unfortunately this has the potential to really get expensive. This case could have an impact on all FFLs. EVERYTHING I know about any of this is linked below and is public information. This is some interesting reading all around. Discuss among yourselves, I wont be participating/responding. Complaint Police Report keep this link cold - https://www.bradyunited.org/donor-spotlight/cooper-elliott Originally Posted By Voland: Originally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? Just don't use gofundme. Don't use the commie go fund me, they will shut you down Start a GIVE SEND GO for your defense |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:17:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: A 22 wrangler is a great gun for a 70yo Stupid Fun gun for a younger man too. I'd be happy to buy one for the plaintiff's attorney if he promised to eat it.  |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:18:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: Everyone is always looking for someone (else) to blame.... This….. The world is fucked |
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USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:18:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Jfc. What a joke.
On a side note, is the shop still up and running? |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:19:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ranging-by-zipcode: Not following you ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ranging-by-zipcode: Originally Posted By LuckyDucky: This is incorrect under abramski. Not following you ? A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun on behalf of someone else. Whether or not the person that ends up with the gun is prohibited is irrelevant. The form is clear about whether you’re the buyer. If you purchase on behalf of someone else you’re committing a crime. If you deliver a gun to known prohibited person that’s a different crime. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:19:27 PM EDT
[#22]
I’ll have to stop in and buy something.
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:21:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: This is incorrect under abramski. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: Originally Posted By ranging-by-zipcode: This should get tossed because it's only a straw purchase if the gun store knows the buyer is purchasing the firearm for a prohibitive person. It doesn't matter if the prohibitive person is in the store with the buyer or sitting at home. ADCO didn't know it was being purchased for someone else . Good lawyer should get this tossed out, This is incorrect under abramski. Yep. Buying as a gift is fine. Buying for reimbursement or with intent to sell is not fine. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:21:50 PM EDT
[#24]
This is so fucked up . Adco has allways been good people. Some 70 year old guy buys a gun for a suicidal chick and now adco has to go though this bullshit .
Fuckin clown world we live in |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:23:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LuckyDucky]
[#25]
deleted
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:23:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun on behalf of someone else. Whether or not the person that ends up with the gun is prohibited is irrelevant. The form is clear about whether you’re the buyer. If you purchase on behalf of someone else you’re committing a crime. If you deliver a gun to known prohibited person that’s a different crime. @ALASKANFIRE You can purchase a gun for someone as a gift as long as they're not a prohibited person. This wasn't the case here though, this was a straw purchase and the buyer knew it and is in deep shit. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:24:22 PM EDT
[#27]
It's a total BS case but this is a good example of just shutting the fuck up when questioned about ANYTHING criminal. Look at how they took his minimal statements and ran with them to use them against ADCO. "Odd dynamic" if you ware an FFL or just anyone for that matter do not answer ANY questions period.
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:25:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: They're like ambulance chasers. They found a girl who comitted suicide and are trying to somehow make the FFL who sold the gun responsible. They’re not “like ambulance chasers,” they are ambulance chasers. Sounds like they just happen to be ambulance chasers who previously got a settlement out of Cabelas for a “negligent gun sale” theory and donated part of it to Brady. It’s an absurd legal theory (both proximate cause with a suicide as an intervening event and the idea that you have an obligation to “always” - their words - ask more questions than are on the 4473 to detect potential straw purchases), but they’re just hoping that once it gets turned over to an insurance defense firm the insurance company will tender a settlement offer they can live with to avoid dealing with the case. Best of luck, brother! |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:25:23 PM EDT
[#29]
70 year old attracted to a crazy women over 30 years his junior.
Ain't no fool like an old fool.... IMO, this is exactly what the leftist in our country wants to happen to every FFL. California just codified it in law. If anyone is culpable, it's the old geezer. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:25:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Hope everything works out for you. I bought my first AR from you guys. It's still my favorite AR.
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:26:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ALASKANFIRE]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: @ALASKANFIRE You can purchase a gun for someone as a gift as long as they're not a prohibited person. This wasn't the case here though, this was a straw purchase and the buyer knew it and is in deep shit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun on behalf of someone else. Whether or not the person that ends up with the gun is prohibited is irrelevant. The form is clear about whether you’re the buyer. If you purchase on behalf of someone else you’re committing a crime. If you deliver a gun to known prohibited person that’s a different crime. @ALASKANFIRE You can purchase a gun for someone as a gift as long as they're not a prohibited person. This wasn't the case here though, this was a straw purchase and the buyer knew it and is in deep shit. Nobody said anything about gifts. The crime is purchasing on behalf of someone else regardless of their ability to legally own a gun. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:31:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MSC182: Best of luck defending yourself against this frivolous suit. You are a great business to do business with. We all stand with you. The hell with the assholes bringing the bullshit up. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:36:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: delemorte]
[#33]
Adco is good people. Is there a go fund me/give send go to donate to legal expenses?
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:37:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PreemptiveStrike]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Nobody said anything about gifts. The crime is purchasing on behalf of someone else regardless of their ability to legally own a gun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun on behalf of someone else. Whether or not the person that ends up with the gun is prohibited is irrelevant. The form is clear about whether you’re the buyer. If you purchase on behalf of someone else you’re committing a crime. If you deliver a gun to known prohibited person that’s a different crime. @ALASKANFIRE You can purchase a gun for someone as a gift as long as they're not a prohibited person. This wasn't the case here though, this was a straw purchase and the buyer knew it and is in deep shit. Nobody said anything about gifts. The crime is purchasing on behalf of someone else regardless of their ability to legally own a gun. @ALASKANFIRE Maybe I misunderstood your post but buying a firearm as a gift is in a sense buying it on behalf of someone else. Buying a firearm as a gift is allowed as long as they're not a prohibited person and I've done it for a number of friends/family. That is not a straw purchase. Buying it for someone who is a prohibited person or who are compensating you to buy it for them is a straw purchase and illegal. Just trying to clarify that.......This was clearly a straw purchase in this instance. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:41:03 PM EDT
[#35]
In on 3
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:41:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colossians323: Don't use the commie go fund me, they will shut you down Start a GIVE SEND GO for your defense Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colossians323: Originally Posted By bigbore: I have turned everything over to Insurance, waiting on approval. I'll be retaining a personal attorney Monday. Unfortunately this has the potential to really get expensive. This case could have an impact on all FFLs. EVERYTHING I know about any of this is linked below and is public information. This is some interesting reading all around. Discuss among yourselves, I wont be participating/responding. Complaint Police Report keep this link cold - https://www.bradyunited.org/donor-spotlight/cooper-elliott Originally Posted By Voland: Originally Posted By ar154all: This is bullshit. Get a GoFundMe. This effects us all. If everyone here coughs up $25, you'll probably be covered Stryker (sp?) still approves these things? Just don't use gofundme. Don't use the commie go fund me, they will shut you down Start a GIVE SEND GO for your defense Or post a Bitcoin wallet address for contributions. Ain't nobody going to be stopping that.  But yeah, total bullshit suit. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:42:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Number0neGun: Trash suit. "The process is the punishment" The left will continue with lawfare until they are stopped. They found something that works, and they will wear it out. 
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USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:46:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Damn, that’s terrible.
Hope you win, and the greedy bad guy has to pay a million dollars in court costs.
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:46:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SC4eyes: "The process is the punishment" The left will continue with lawfare until they are stopped. They found something that works, and they will wear it out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SC4eyes: Originally Posted By Number0neGun: Trash suit. "The process is the punishment" The left will continue with lawfare until they are stopped. They found something that works, and they will wear it out. ADCO will not be found liable here although it may cost him some coin. Hopefully he'll be able to threaten a counter and settle with no loss to him. The guy that purchased the gun for the bat shit crazy woman is fucked however. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:47:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky: @Lumper Abramski court said straw purchase does not depend on whether the actual recipient is prohibited. Straw purchase is just buying for someone else. Then read part III, pages 19-22. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1493_5468.pdf Thank you for your response, I had misinterpreted your answer as a negative towards ADCO, when it was in fact a positive based on the pages you listed. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:48:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: @ALASKANFIRE Maybe I misunderstood your post but buying a firearm as a gift is in a sense buying it on behalf of someone else. Buying a firearm as a gift is allowed as long as they're not a prohibited person and I've done it for a number of friends/family. That is not a straw purchase. Buying it for someone who is a prohibited person or who are compensating you to buy it for them is a straw purchase and illegal. Just trying to clarify that.......This was clearly a straw purchase in this instance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun on behalf of someone else. Whether or not the person that ends up with the gun is prohibited is irrelevant. The form is clear about whether you’re the buyer. If you purchase on behalf of someone else you’re committing a crime. If you deliver a gun to known prohibited person that’s a different crime. @ALASKANFIRE You can purchase a gun for someone as a gift as long as they're not a prohibited person. This wasn't the case here though, this was a straw purchase and the buyer knew it and is in deep shit. Nobody said anything about gifts. The crime is purchasing on behalf of someone else regardless of their ability to legally own a gun. @ALASKANFIRE Maybe I misunderstood your post but buying a firearm as a gift is in a sense buying it on behalf of someone else. Buying a firearm as a gift is allowed as long as they're not a prohibited person and I've done it for a number of friends/family. That is not a straw purchase. Buying it for someone who is a prohibited person or who are compensating you to buy it for them is a straw purchase and illegal. Just trying to clarify that.......This was clearly a straw purchase in this instance. Basically, buying a gun for a legal recipient using YOUR money is fine. Using THEIR money is not..."Hey, you're going to the gunshow this weekend, I've gotta work. Try and find me a WWII 1911 and I'll pay you back" is NOT OK. Also not OK to buy a gun to give as compensation for a favor. Neighbor helps roof your house, you buy him a gun instead of paying cash, not legal. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:49:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Ya'll are good people. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:49:39 PM EDT
[#43]
If you need work to pay bills, I’ll play double
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:50:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joecav]
[#44]
Hang in there.
They should probably sue Zohn but rule #1 don't sue poor people. You General Liability carrier will take some time to review coverages on your GL policy. They will compare the policy language to the accusations in the complaint. Since the complaint will have to be answered timely your policy will probably move forward with answering the complaint. You will get a very long Reservation of Rights letter spelling out any potential issues that could arise with coverage. Insurance counsel is typically very good. I would expect your GL policy may provide a defense for you as well so you might want to see what your carrier says before spending money on your own counsel. ETA: Not a lawyer |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:51:30 PM EDT
[#45]
ATF regulations define straw purchase, not federal law. The federal crime is still the same though, lying on the 4473.
The current straw purchase definition is if you’re buying the firearm for someone else. An older straw purchase definition, and I believe the original, is if you’re buying the firearm for a prohibited person. Keeping up with nearly constant regulation changes is a headache. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:51:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Tragic story, I feel for the family. That said their involvement of ADCO seems like a stretch and a cash grab... I hope you and your company win and get your fees back, not going to get your time back that's for sure
I have been behind the counter of a couple stores a many times (security contractor) and have referred a few folks to the owner to be kicked out for: reeking of weed and or being high AF, obvious straw purchase, or clearly disturbed/plain weird. I have also been in a store more than once including behind the counter dealing with a clearly suicidal person (we got them help). I have spent a lot of time (too much) in gun stores and never have I ever seen a sale made that was questionable, even in pawn brokers in rough parts of Denver. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:52:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Geez, that sucks. Good luck OP.
I believe this is part of their new ploy. What they can't do with legislation they'll do with litigation.
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:53:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shack357: Basically, buying a gun for a legal recipient using YOUR money is fine. Using THEIR money is not..."Hey, you're going to the gunshow this weekend, I've gotta work. Try and find me a WWII 1911 and I'll pay you back" is NOT OK. Also not OK to buy a gun to give as compensation for a favor. Neighbor helps roof your house, you buy him a gun instead of paying cash, not legal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shack357: Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun on behalf of someone else. Whether or not the person that ends up with the gun is prohibited is irrelevant. The form is clear about whether you’re the buyer. If you purchase on behalf of someone else you’re committing a crime. If you deliver a gun to known prohibited person that’s a different crime. @ALASKANFIRE You can purchase a gun for someone as a gift as long as they're not a prohibited person. This wasn't the case here though, this was a straw purchase and the buyer knew it and is in deep shit. Nobody said anything about gifts. The crime is purchasing on behalf of someone else regardless of their ability to legally own a gun. @ALASKANFIRE Maybe I misunderstood your post but buying a firearm as a gift is in a sense buying it on behalf of someone else. Buying a firearm as a gift is allowed as long as they're not a prohibited person and I've done it for a number of friends/family. That is not a straw purchase. Buying it for someone who is a prohibited person or who are compensating you to buy it for them is a straw purchase and illegal. Just trying to clarify that.......This was clearly a straw purchase in this instance. Basically, buying a gun for a legal recipient using YOUR money is fine. Using THEIR money is not..."Hey, you're going to the gunshow this weekend, I've gotta work. Try and find me a WWII 1911 and I'll pay you back" is NOT OK. Also not OK to buy a gun to give as compensation for a favor. Neighbor helps roof your house, you buy him a gun instead of paying cash, not legal. You just said what I said....... I highlighted it for you in your quote
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:53:58 PM EDT
[#49]
The "red flags" cited are so subjective; not sure you can objectively prove something is a "red flag".
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KY, USA
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:56:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: The process is the punishment. |
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