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Posted: 4/23/2024 7:23:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By griffin86: The part with Toronaga and Yubishige was amazing. I can see why they went that way. They didnt want to have Toranaga do a voiceover at the end, so they gave him somebody to talk to. And I dont dislike it... but I think I prefer Yabu's seppuku scene in the original. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 7:33:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Too much playoff hockey on tonight, I will watch finale tomorrow.
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Posted: 4/23/2024 7:40:01 PM EDT
[#3]
No epic final battle. Boo.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:39:12 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:05:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Anjin and Fuji were awfully close all of a sudden in the last episode. I read the book years ago and saw the first Shogun when it came out, but this version seems to have skipped over some things between them.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:02:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Click To View SpoilerOverall I very much liked the newest version for the most part. Mifune was a better Toranaga.
Click To View SpoilerThe sets and costuming were much better but the lighting ruined alot of that. This was too darkly lit most all the time. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:08:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ZF-1]
[#7]
Great ending. Amazing series.
Click To View Spoiler Do you think Blackthorne really really figured it out at the end? They make it seem like he might have.... |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:40:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kihn]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Anjin and Fuji were awfully close all of a sudden in the last episode. I read the book years ago and saw the first Shogun when it came out, but this version seems to have skipped over some things between them. All this talk of a second season. Maybe it is the filler for all of the subtlety/ subterfuge. the Actress who played Mariko, as per an earlier post, saying if the series was successful in its first season, that there may be more. The only way she is coming back is if it's all prequel to the door being blown. Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:35:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kihn: All this talk of a second season. Maybe it is the filler for all of the subtlety/ subterfuge. the Actress who played Mariko, as per an earlier post, saying if the series was successful in its first season, that there may be more. The only way she is coming back is if it's all prequel to the door being blown. Click To View Spoiler Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:40:10 AM EDT
[#10]
Sure looks like they ran out of money for the last episode. I enjoyed it anyway, but I can't say I'm pleased about missing the big battle. Doing it right would cost them millions, and if we have to use our imaginations a bit for otherwise excellent shows like this to be economically viable then I understand that, but I do think they built up expectations that they were unable to meet. The episode with the cannon practice ending with the slaughter of Ishido's messengers was practically a promise of more to the audience.
Reminds me of the old Sharpe's Rifles TV series with 50,000 man battles sketched very faintly with closeups and low angle shots of 10 extras and a cannon. Or Game of Thrones season 1 when Tyrion got knocked out on the way to the battle and woke up afterwards. I was disappointed but still look back at them fondly and rewatch on occasion. The real main character of the show is Mariko and the creators said 95% of what they wanted to say with episode 9, which was a masterwork. Shouldn't have been surprising that a finale episode without her after that emotional roller coaster was going to be an obligatory epilogue with limited resources. We might consider ourselves lucky they didn't tack a Blackthorne/Toranaga reaction scene and a three minute montage and a scrolling text on to the end of episode 9 and call it good. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:40:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kihn]
[#11]
Quote History |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:48:02 AM EDT
[#12]
FWIW, in some of the behind the scenes interviews they would sometimes use the term “this season”.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:49:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Originally Posted By Kihn: All this talk of a second season. Maybe it is the filler for all of the subtlety/ subterfuge. the Actress who played Mariko, as per an earlier post, saying if the series was successful in its first season, that there may be more. The only way she is coming back is if it's all prequel to the door being blown. Click To View Spoiler Click To View Spoiler Thought Fuji stopped him from dropping |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:50:57 AM EDT
[#14]
The shows was called a limited series.
I'd be extraordinarily suprised if they did a season 2. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 10:50:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Anjin and Fuji were awfully close all of a sudden in the last episode. I read the book years ago and saw the first Shogun when it came out, but this version seems to have skipped over some things between them. I think they might've changed something in response to Fuji's fanbase, she's very popular now. Moeka Hoshi is cute as hell! https://www.instagram.com/moekappa823/?hl=en |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 10:55:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig24680: Just finished the last episode Not a fan of the ending Just didn't seem "right" in keeping with show Very anticlimactic Agree. Didn’t flow well either. Kind of wondered if it were a budget or time constraint issue. And the dream thing. That season of Dallas came to mind. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 10:58:52 AM EDT
[#17]
The more I think about the more disappointed I get.
It's obviously not bad, but I don't feel like I gained much from this series. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:03:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: The more I think about the more disappointed I get. It's obviously not bad, but I don't feel like I gained much from this series. Think of it as another of Toranaga's plots. The viewers got suckered into thinking they would be watching a show about Anjin, it was actually a japanese production about Toranaga's rise to power. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:05:57 AM EDT
[#19]
final episode was a total let down to me. and the more i think about it the more im let down.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:06:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jackthom8: Think of it as another of Toranaga's plots. The viewers got suckered into thinking they would be watching a show about Anjin, it was actually a japanese production about Toranaga's rise to power. I get that. I was very interested in Toranaga's rise. Maybe it's just my expectation as a Westerner, but the actual payoff for all of his scheming wasn't there. Just "hey that shit? I did that lol" Just felt like more crescendo would be involved. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:20:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: I get that. I was very interested in Toranaga's rise. Maybe it's just my expectation as a Westerner, but the actual payoff for all of his scheming wasn't there. Just "hey that shit? I did that lol" Just felt like more crescendo would be involved. Yeah I understand, it does feel like they had budget problems. Seems like they blew too much of the show's budget in the first 4 episodes and then had to drag the dialog out for filler. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:24:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTwannabe: No epic final battle. Boo. Disappointed As someone unfamiliar with the story I kept watching, expecting it to get better. I had no idea I was watching House of Cards, Japan. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:28:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Notcalifornialegal]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Disappointed As someone unfamiliar with the story I kept watching, expecting it to get better. I had no idea I was watching House of Cards, Japan. House of Cards had huge payoffs at the end of each early season. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:30:39 AM EDT
[#24]
Had my hopes for this show.
It Sucked! |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:39:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jackthom8: Think of it as another of Toranaga's plots. The viewers got suckered into thinking they would be watching a show about Anjin, it was actually a japanese production about Toranaga's rise to power. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jackthom8: Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: The more I think about the more disappointed I get. It's obviously not bad, but I don't feel like I gained much from this series. Think of it as another of Toranaga's plots. The viewers got suckered into thinking they would be watching a show about Anjin, it was actually a japanese production about Toranaga's rise to power. As a show about feudal Japan I figured it was about Toranaga and the white dude was along for the ride Few tweaks and the last episode would have been an epic end I didnt care for large battle as those are hard and $$$$ to film Maybe some action and closure All we got was a plan a month away and note claiming the Heirs army wouldn't help Ishido (spelling) Few moments of Toranaga carrying out his plan and aftermath is good enough for me Overall a very good series but could have been great due to last episode |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:41:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Notcalifornialegal]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig24680: As a show about feudal Japan I figured it was about Toranaga and the white dude was along for the ride Few tweaks and the last episode would have been an epic end I didnt care for large battle as those are hard and $$$$ to film Maybe some action and closure All we got was a plan a month away and note claiming the Heirs army wouldn't help Ishido (spelling) Few moments of Toranaga carrying out his plan and aftermath is good enough for me Overall a very good series but could have been great due to last episode Exactly. Don't blow your load early and just tell people what's going to happen... but SHOW it. Show the heirs army staying away. Show Ishido's reaction. Show Toranaga becoming Shogun. This is just all edging with no finish. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:53:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fike]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: I get that. I was very interested in Toranaga's rise. Maybe it's just my expectation as a Westerner, but the actual payoff for all of his scheming wasn't there. Just "hey that shit? I did that lol" Just felt like more crescendo would be involved. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By jackthom8: Think of it as another of Toranaga's plots. The viewers got suckered into thinking they would be watching a show about Anjin, it was actually a japanese production about Toranaga's rise to power. I get that. I was very interested in Toranaga's rise. Maybe it's just my expectation as a Westerner, but the actual payoff for all of his scheming wasn't there. Just "hey that shit? I did that lol" Just felt like more crescendo would be involved. Going back to what I said earlier. Originally Posted By fike: The structure of the whole series was pretty brilliant. Western storytelling in the first half and Japanese in the second half. This is my poem: Life is learning to love the limitations of reality, not hating when expectations are not met. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:01:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Notcalifornialegal]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Going back to what I said earlier. This is my poem: Life is learning to love the limitations of reality, not hating when expectations are not met. The story deserved more. I've long said the Sengoku period is a fascinating time in history that deserves to be told to Western audiences. Shogun absolutely had the potential to do so and there were excellent elements throughout the series that showed they WERE good story tellers, but they just didn't stick the landing. Blame Japanese story telling if it's appropriate, but this largely didn't do it for me, and a lot of people are going to be disappointed with this. It's not their fault for having high expectations when the quality throughout the series is so high. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:10:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fushaw]
[#29]
I feel like the show ended about 1 chapter and epilogue before the book's ending.
Click To View Spoiler |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:33:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Exactly. Don't blow your load early and just tell people what's going to happen... but SHOW it. Show the heirs army staying away. Show Ishido's reaction. Show Toranaga becoming Shogun. This is just all edging with no finish. That's fair they could have off screened the battle only to show the aftermath and wrap up with another episode. However, I'm thinking they realized stretching it for another episode may have left the Finale a little short and paced weirdly. So I'm okay with how it ended. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:33:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bacon_Grease: That's fair they could have off screened the battle only to show the aftermath and wrap up with another episode. However, I'm thinking they realized stretching it for another episode may have left the Finale a little short and paced weirdly. So I'm okay with how it ended. The ending itself is FANTASTIC. The presentation of the ending... is not so much. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:41:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: The story deserved more. I've long said the Sengoku period is a fascinating time in history that deserves to be told to Western audiences. Shogun absolutely had the potential to do so and there were excellent elements throughout the series that showed they WERE good story tellers, but they just didn't stick the landing. Blame Japanese story telling if it's appropriate, but this largely didn't do it for me, and a lot of people are going to be disappointed with this. It's not their fault for having high expectations when the quality throughout the series is so high. On one hand HBO could've pulled it off better than FX if they had a Game of Thrones-level budget. But on the other hand the mandatory DEI probably would've made it even worse. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:01:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Would have liked to see Ishido buried up to his neck.
Guess if you wanna catch an epic battle scene with Hiroyuki Sanada you can rewatch The Last Samurai. Tadanabo Asano suicide v2...you can see v1 in last remake of Midway. Almost gets killed in Battleship. Guess we'll see more of Anna Sawai in next season of Monarch. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:06:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tangotag: Had my hopes for this show. It Sucked! glad i didnt waste my time |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:15:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Wow.
So because people didn't get a full scale, 1 hour long Sekigahara battle, with cannon splashing Ishido and his men to the 4 winds, the show sucks? Didn't live up to the hype? Worst ending ever? Really? |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:23:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By killstick_engaged: glad i didnt waste my time It's still a very good show with a good ending. People who aren't familiar with the book and the show's purpose were expecting a large, LotR type battle scene. |
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WLF
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:41:40 PM EDT
[#37]
There was never going to be a depiction of the battle of Sekigahara.
It was always going to be off screen. why? because it was meaningless, its conclusion was already settled. The climax of the story was the bomb that blew open a door. Everything after that is just rocks rolling down a hill. My biggest complaint about the show is that they changed the "if you win" conversation too much. And they left out a scene of Anjin ( and Toranaga) dancing for Toranaga's wives/consorts. Which would have given context to the "he makes me laugh" line. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:53:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZF-1: Wow. So because people didn't get a full scale, 1 hour long Sekigahara battle, with cannon splashing Ishido and his men to the 4 winds, the show sucks? Didn't live up to the hype? Worst ending ever? Really? I don't think anyone said that. Most have been saying it was pretty underwhelming compared to the rest of the series, which it was. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 2:06:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Can somebody explain to my why that smelly protestant pirate left the bird to rot and putrefy before cooking and eating it?
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Posted: 4/24/2024 2:13:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bogdan: Can somebody explain to my why that smelly protestant pirate left the bird to rot and putrefy before cooking and eating it? Because the British are disgusting savages, that's why. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 2:15:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ohio: Because the British are disgusting savages, that's why. Wow that show is so realistic :) |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 2:50:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Anjin’s advanced age makeup was pretty bad. That’s my only disappointment… & not getting a Mariko nude scene.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 2:52:00 PM EDT
[#43]
In the book the finale happens off-stage.
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COL
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Posted: 4/24/2024 2:58:53 PM EDT
[#44]
The story was never about the battle. It was about the politics and infighting that was part of history during that period. If you want to go see some big battle BS go rewatch Tom cruise last Samurai.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:02:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Click To View Spoiler Book readers feel the same way about the book. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:32:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Having read the book many times, I thought the show was decent, but short-changed the Anjin. By making him largely obdurate and objectionable until episode 9, they couldn’t really explain why Mariko and Toranaga had strong feelings and respect for him. And, the Toranaga of the book isn’t really portrayed in the show.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:47:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Looks like one more episode. Is there going to be a second season? I mean, they covered the entire novel. 
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:53:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlabamaFan64]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: I mean, they covered the entire novel. Well, I asked that question before the final episode came out.
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:54:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: I mean, they covered the entire novel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Originally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Looks like one more episode. Is there going to be a second season? I mean, they covered the entire novel. They can do Tai Pan next. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:04:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Well, I asked that question before the final episode came out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I mean, they covered the entire novel. Well, I asked that question before the final episode came out. That fair. Not really a ton of material after the ninja attack though. To those who say the show sucked… are you smoking crack? It was extraordinarily well done. I wish the final episode had been done a bit differently, but it was still very good. The rest of the show? Amazing. |
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