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Posted: 4/9/2024 3:56:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: “[Jonathan Nolan] then explained how the show will use Lucy to moralize to viewers, “Lucy is charming and plucky and strong…and then you see she’s confronted with the reality of, hey, maybe the supposedly virtuous things you grew up with are not necessarily that virtuous. If they are virtuous, they’re couched in a circumstantial virtuousness. It’s a luxury virtue. You have your point of view because you never ran out of food, right? You guys were able to share everything—because you had enough to share.”” Everyone still excited now? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By gearsmithy: I saw an article somewhere where the showmakers said they would be leaning into 'political narratives' or other such shit. Sorry but it sounds like it's going to be worse than the last of us. ETA: Found it - "Prime Video’s ‘Fallout’ TV Creators Confirm Show Will Feature Heavy Social Commentary" “[Jonathan Nolan] then explained how the show will use Lucy to moralize to viewers, “Lucy is charming and plucky and strong…and then you see she’s confronted with the reality of, hey, maybe the supposedly virtuous things you grew up with are not necessarily that virtuous. If they are virtuous, they’re couched in a circumstantial virtuousness. It’s a luxury virtue. You have your point of view because you never ran out of food, right? You guys were able to share everything—because you had enough to share.”” Everyone still excited now? Did you read what you posted? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 3:57:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Keep in mind that this is based on a video game. It is INTENDED to be like the video game. There are two very important things to remember, IMO. First, the ENTIRE POINT of the Fallout games (especially Fallout 1, 3 and 4) is that you start out as a VERY weak and generally clueless character, who is not good at fighting, is not skilled with weapons, and who does not understand how the world works. Then, as you explore and go through the gameplay, you become stronger and more skilled. By the end of the game, you are an unstoppable murder machine with ridiculously powerful weapons and insane skills. Second, in several of the games, especially Fallout 3 and New Vegas (and possibly FO4, can't remember), there is a distinct and strong advantage to playing as a female character, because the female-specific perks are much stronger and more useful than the male-specific perks. So if the show is about a weak and clueless woman that gradually becomes powerful and awesome and has a big effect on the world - that's actually not inconsistent with Fallout gameplay at all. Like others have said, there's a good way to pull this off that would be consistent with the game and cool, and there's a terrible way to do this, that's all woke and Mary Sue. I'm hoping for the former, but would not be too surprised by the latter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By godzillamax: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Given that Fallout lets you play as a male or female protagonist. Yeah, it doesn't bother me at all. What will be important is she has to go through a heroes journey. Like, not have her as some Mary Sue. lol Keep in mind that this is based on a video game. It is INTENDED to be like the video game. There are two very important things to remember, IMO. First, the ENTIRE POINT of the Fallout games (especially Fallout 1, 3 and 4) is that you start out as a VERY weak and generally clueless character, who is not good at fighting, is not skilled with weapons, and who does not understand how the world works. Then, as you explore and go through the gameplay, you become stronger and more skilled. By the end of the game, you are an unstoppable murder machine with ridiculously powerful weapons and insane skills. Second, in several of the games, especially Fallout 3 and New Vegas (and possibly FO4, can't remember), there is a distinct and strong advantage to playing as a female character, because the female-specific perks are much stronger and more useful than the male-specific perks. So if the show is about a weak and clueless woman that gradually becomes powerful and awesome and has a big effect on the world - that's actually not inconsistent with Fallout gameplay at all. Like others have said, there's a good way to pull this off that would be consistent with the game and cool, and there's a terrible way to do this, that's all woke and Mary Sue. I'm hoping for the former, but would not be too surprised by the latter. So you’re saying Black Widow is on the menu? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:01:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: runcible]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Yeah, I do wonder how many people are going to claim that the choice of a female protagonist automatically makes it "woke" I mean, c'mon... how much consideration do you believe was given to making the protagonist a white male? I'll bet the chance the protagonist could have been a white male is inversely proportional to the percentage of the audience for this that is white male. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:03:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am guardedly optimistic. Like everyone else, I am worried about woke bullshit, but I think it absolutely COULD be really good. Fingers crossed. Same. I was really upset when I heard Amazon was doing the Terminal List. I enjoyed the books, but I knew they would ruin it. I was really surprised at how well it turned out. There were differences from the book but mostly minor. I have my fingers crossed. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:05:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: If the protagonist had to be female... and, let's face it, she did... then yeah, wouldn't you say that's a little woke? I mean, c'mon... how much consideration do you believe was given to making the protagonist a white male? I'll be the chance the protagonist could have been a white male is inversely proportional to the percentage of the audience for this that is white male. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Yeah, I do wonder how many people are going to claim that the choice of a female protagonist automatically makes it "woke" I mean, c'mon... how much consideration do you believe was given to making the protagonist a white male? I'll be the chance the protagonist could have been a white male is inversely proportional to the percentage of the audience for this that is white male. It would have chosen a female protagonist. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:06:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Video game to TV series adaptions has been on a losing streak lately. I am really hoping this one is good. I mostly agree, however, I really enjoyed the Twisted Metal show on Peacock. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:08:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: You should watch the "Many a True Nerd" youtube videos on why Fallout 3 is not as bad as you think. I thought they were fascinating videos, and really learned a lot of interesting stuff. (His two-part similar video for Fallout 4 is also really interesting)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z8XHe2NoAEQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By RustedAce: Fallout 1 and 2 are the only Fallouts. (Maybe Vegas.) You should watch the "Many a True Nerd" youtube videos on why Fallout 3 is not as bad as you think. I thought they were fascinating videos, and really learned a lot of interesting stuff. (His two-part similar video for Fallout 4 is also really interesting) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z8XHe2NoAEThe setting is interesting. Honestly more interesting than NV. The writing is usually stupid (with a few clever areas and branching) the plot is often worse, with some baffling decisions by various entities---and the game play doesn't appeal at all to my preferences. Which is why I usually stuck Tale of Two Wastelands + Project Nevada on it and went exploring. FF1 and 2 are much richer games, if saddled with a bone-crushing difficulty curve (from the perspective of modern gamers) and an ugly user interface + graphics. The games are laden with social satire. The whole point of the milieu is to take the piss of the unbridled optimism and faith in science, progress, and other institutions of the 50's, while also being absolutely horrific. But I'm pretty sure that's not what the upthread quote from the TV show writers are referring to. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:09:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: If the protagonist had to be female... and, let's face it, she did... then yeah, wouldn't you say that's a little woke? I mean, c'mon... how much consideration do you believe was given to making the protagonist a white male? I'll be the chance the protagonist could have been a white male is inversely proportional to the percentage of the audience for this that is white male. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runcible: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Yeah, I do wonder how many people are going to claim that the choice of a female protagonist automatically makes it "woke" I mean, c'mon... how much consideration do you believe was given to making the protagonist a white male? I'll be the chance the protagonist could have been a white male is inversely proportional to the percentage of the audience for this that is white male. You are probably right about the underlying reasons, but I am just saying it's not necessarily inconsistent with the show. If that's all they do, then I am fine with it, and can enjoy the show perfectly well. If they fill it with woke bullshit, then I will not watch it, and it will likely be the same financial failure as the Rings of Power (albeit on a smaller scale) |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:11:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am guardedly optimistic. Like everyone else, I am worried about woke bullshit, but I think it absolutely COULD be really good. Fingers crossed. Same here. Hopefully will be "binge" watching them if they are good. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:12:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTallest: I’m going in with extremely low expectations. They put a 90 pound woman as the protagonist. I’m fairly certain there’s going to be some level of wokeness. Fallout has been one of my favorite franchises, except for 76 because fuck multiplayer Fallout. Only if she takes Unarmed as a specialty. Though Buffout is a hell of a drug... The previews look great, ngl. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:19:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: “[Jonathan Nolan] then explained how the show will use Lucy to moralize to viewers, “Lucy is charming and plucky and strong…and then you see she’s confronted with the reality of, hey, maybe the supposedly virtuous things you grew up with are not necessarily that virtuous. If they are virtuous, they’re couched in a circumstantial virtuousness. It’s a luxury virtue. You have your point of view because you never ran out of food, right? You guys were able to share everything—because you had enough to share.”” Everyone still excited now? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By gearsmithy: I saw an article somewhere where the showmakers said they would be leaning into 'political narratives' or other such shit. Sorry but it sounds like it's going to be worse than the last of us. ETA: Found it - "Prime Video’s ‘Fallout’ TV Creators Confirm Show Will Feature Heavy Social Commentary" “[Jonathan Nolan] then explained how the show will use Lucy to moralize to viewers, “Lucy is charming and plucky and strong…and then you see she’s confronted with the reality of, hey, maybe the supposedly virtuous things you grew up with are not necessarily that virtuous. If they are virtuous, they’re couched in a circumstantial virtuousness. It’s a luxury virtue. You have your point of view because you never ran out of food, right? You guys were able to share everything—because you had enough to share.”” Everyone still excited now? Oh good. More hamfisted shitting all over 'privilege.' "Next Episode, watch as Lucy grinds gecko XP and skins + works fulltime as an apprentice Scribe, so she can maybe afford her own house! Whoops! Here comes that Brotherhood loan payment. (Sad Mr. Handy noises.) Maybe next level...." |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:25:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scrambler28: Hopefully it's woke so we have another thing to bitch about.  Oh, There'll be bitching no matter if it's woke or not. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:30:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mooseless]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cedjunior: Did you read what you posted? Of course I read it. I was being sarcastic when I asked if people were still excited. The worst thing is that’s Jonathan Nolan saying that. He had a pretty decent track record years ago and was likely this show’s only hope of not being woke. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:36:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fike]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Of course I read it. I was being sarcastic when I asked if people were still excited. The worst thing is that’s Jonathan Nolan saying that. He had a pretty decent track record years ago and was likely this show’s only hope of not being woke. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By cedjunior: Did you read what you posted? Of course I read it. I was being sarcastic when I asked if people were still excited. The worst thing is that’s Jonathan Nolan saying that. He had a pretty decent track record years ago and was likely this show’s only hope of not being woke. Trying to figure out how what he said was woke. It’s a description of somebody getting slapped in the face with reality. If that is woke, so is every SHTF fantasy. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:39:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighlandMac]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Fallout - since the beginning - has had both male and female player characters available. I don't see it as a gender swap. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By HighlandMac: Originally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By fike: Female protagonist, so arfcom won’t like it as they “can’t see themselves” in the character. Yeah, I do wonder how many people are going to claim that the choice of a female protagonist automatically makes it "woke" I am guessing the people who will complain about that are not people who actually played Fallout games a lot. I love talking to people like that in person. I generally slowly bring the conversation around to Alien/Aliens. Only once I can recall did one of them have a lightbulb moment when they realized they went from hating on strong female leads to praising a strong female lead. It doesn’t matter male/female protagonist as long as the character is well written. That is the fly in the ointment. Most of these writers are lazy and have horrible writing skills. Add to that gender/race swapped characters in established lore IPs and you get a terrible show. Predictable failure is predictable.  Fallout - since the beginning - has had both male and female player characters available. I don't see it as a gender swap. I know in game you could be either M/F. I was just highlighting that as one of the tools that are commonly used to make lore rich IPs into fan base hated crapshows. They could get away with this if they wrote a great character but that never happens. Every time it is a cut and paste marvel archetype make the female an unlikable Mary sue. Also,without a single moment of doubt you can guarantee that a male protagonist was off the table before any script was written. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:45:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Keep in mind that this is based on a video game. It is INTENDED to be like the video game. There are two very important things to remember, IMO. First, the ENTIRE POINT of the Fallout games (especially Fallout 1, 3 and 4) is that you start out as a VERY weak and generally clueless character, who is not good at fighting, is not skilled with weapons, and who does not understand how the world works. Then, as you explore and go through the gameplay, you become stronger and more skilled. By the end of the game, you are an unstoppable murder machine with ridiculously powerful weapons and insane skills. Second, in several of the games, especially Fallout 3 and New Vegas (and possibly FO4, can't remember), there is a distinct and strong advantage to playing as a female character, because the female-specific perks are much stronger and more useful than the male-specific perks. So if the show is about a weak and clueless woman that gradually becomes powerful and awesome and has a big effect on the world - that's actually not inconsistent with Fallout gameplay at all. Like others have said, there's a good way to pull this off that would be consistent with the game and cool, and there's a terrible way to do this, that's all woke and Mary Sue. I'm hoping for the former, but would not be too surprised by the latter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By godzillamax: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Given that Fallout lets you play as a male or female protagonist. Yeah, it doesn't bother me at all. What will be important is she has to go through a heroes journey. Like, not have her as some Mary Sue. lol Keep in mind that this is based on a video game. It is INTENDED to be like the video game. There are two very important things to remember, IMO. First, the ENTIRE POINT of the Fallout games (especially Fallout 1, 3 and 4) is that you start out as a VERY weak and generally clueless character, who is not good at fighting, is not skilled with weapons, and who does not understand how the world works. Then, as you explore and go through the gameplay, you become stronger and more skilled. By the end of the game, you are an unstoppable murder machine with ridiculously powerful weapons and insane skills. Second, in several of the games, especially Fallout 3 and New Vegas (and possibly FO4, can't remember), there is a distinct and strong advantage to playing as a female character, because the female-specific perks are much stronger and more useful than the male-specific perks. So if the show is about a weak and clueless woman that gradually becomes powerful and awesome and has a big effect on the world - that's actually not inconsistent with Fallout gameplay at all. Like others have said, there's a good way to pull this off that would be consistent with the game and cool, and there's a terrible way to do this, that's all woke and Mary Sue. I'm hoping for the former, but would not be too surprised by the latter. Same strength, just more useful due to the demographics of certain factions. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:48:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Trying to figure out how what he said was woke. It’s a description of somebody getting slapped in the face with reality. If that is woke, so is every SHTF fantasy. Context matters in everything. What do you think a privilege argument will look like in 2024? Who do you think it’s aimed at? And beyond that, the whole notion of whining over privilege is inherently Marxist. Forty years ago, who ever even mentioned privilege? When you think of who, there’s your answer. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:57:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Context matters in everything. What do you think a privilege argument will look like in 2024? Who do you think it’s aimed at? And beyond that, the whole notion of whining over privilege is inherently Marxist. Forty years ago, who ever even mentioned privilege? When you think of who, there’s your answer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By fike: Trying to figure out how what he said was woke. It’s a description of somebody getting slapped in the face with reality. If that is woke, so is every SHTF fantasy. Context matters in everything. What do you think a privilege argument will look like in 2024? Who do you think it’s aimed at? And beyond that, the whole notion of whining over privilege is inherently Marxist. Forty years ago, who ever even mentioned privilege? When you think of who, there’s your answer. We shall see, but that is always up to personal interpretation and the baggage you bring. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:02:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stillnothere: This is from the Amazon page for the show: Actually mentioning China as a bad guy/enemy of the US- that's definitely a start. Think about the 2nd Red Dawn, how MGM totally revamped the movie to make it the North Koreans instead of the Chinese. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:02:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mooseless]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Amazon seems pretty hit and miss, could be woke garbage and it could be tolerable entertainment. On the one hand you have a female protagonist, but on the other hand the main character is supposed to be naive and way out of her depth. We also have a minority male protagonist (Iron Brotherhood) and it appears the only white male protagonist is a ghoul who is horribly deformed. Amazon has put out some pure woke garbage like their Lord of the Rings series, but they've had some good ones like "Terminal List" and "Reacher." So, fingers crossed. The reason for this is that Amazon is not a traditional studio like Disney. Stuff that Disney does is directed from the top down and managed that way from the start. Disney might buy a spec script from outside, but one development starts it’s all in-house with their people. Amazon is more like a licenser of properties. Producers will bring scripts and people, shop it around, and if Amazon buys it, they’re really just financing it. Amazon execs will give notes and make requests, of course, but the majority of creative freedom remains with the original team. Terminal List wasn’t woke because the people who put it together didn’t want it to be. Rings of Power was because those people did. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:03:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: I love talking to people like that in person. I generally slowly bring the conversation around to Alien/Aliens. Only once I can recall did one of them have a lightbulb moment when they realized they went from hating on strong female leads to praising a strong female lead. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By fike: Female protagonist, so arfcom won't like it as they "can't see themselves" in the character. Yeah, I do wonder how many people are going to claim that the choice of a female protagonist automatically makes it "woke" I am guessing the people who will complain about that are not people who actually played Fallout games a lot. I love talking to people like that in person. I generally slowly bring the conversation around to Alien/Aliens. Only once I can recall did one of them have a lightbulb moment when they realized they went from hating on strong female leads to praising a strong female lead. Which is what the social media mockingbirds would say without seeing it. Woke Witch hunting is only slightly less tiresome than the actual woke shit itself. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:32:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: But hasn't that always been the presentation of the Vault Dwellers vs the Wastelanders? The trope is that the Vault Dwellers either lived in an absolute hell of government experimentation, or they lived in some idyllic 50's style ship in a bottle. Nearly every Fallout game in which the protagonist is a Vault Dweller who come from a world of comfort / plenty that suddenly has a problem requiring them to leave the vault in search of a solution. The Vault Dweller having a culture shock with the Wastelanders is par for the course. They go from a controlled environment to an uncontrolled one. Yes there are class warfare angles to it, but it always has the dark subtext that the Vault Dweller also comes from a government experiment in which they were oblivious. What the purpose of the vault in the show will be is yet to be determined. Sure, the outside Wastelander world might see the Vault Dweller as coming from a paradise of plenty when in reality their vault might have had mandatory buttfuckings every Tuesday or they all got forced sex changes at 18. The vaults were hell, just some hells had nice pillows and dinty moore dinners. From the trailers that's exactly how I think it's going to be. The female protagonist seems real naive about the Wasteland and in way over her head. I think the male Ghoule takes her under his wing and teaches her how to survive in the wasteland. It seems to imply he has to save her ass multiple times. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:40:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Context matters in everything. What do you think a privilege argument will look like in 2024? Who do you think it’s aimed at? And beyond that, the whole notion of whining over privilege is inherently Marxist. Forty years ago, who ever even mentioned privilege? When you think of who, there’s your answer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By fike: Trying to figure out how what he said was woke. It’s a description of somebody getting slapped in the face with reality. If that is woke, so is every SHTF fantasy. Context matters in everything. What do you think a privilege argument will look like in 2024? Who do you think it’s aimed at? And beyond that, the whole notion of whining over privilege is inherently Marxist. Forty years ago, who ever even mentioned privilege? When you think of who, there’s your answer. Trying too hard. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:41:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Looking forward to it. Cautiously optimistic.
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:03:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cedjunior: Trying too hard. Reddit-tier rhetoric is always a sure sign a person can’t answer without admitting he’s wrong. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:05:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hobs98: I mostly agree, however, I really enjoyed the Twisted Metal show on Peacock. I'm meaning to check that out. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:10:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Reddit-tier rhetoric is always a sure sign a person can’t answer without admitting he’s wrong. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By cedjunior: Trying too hard. Reddit-tier rhetoric is always a sure sign a person can’t answer without admitting he’s wrong. Trying too hard. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:14:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cedjunior: Trying too hard. tier rhetoric is always a sure sign a person can’t answer without admitting he’s wrong. That means you sweetie. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:14:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: tier rhetoric is always a sure sign a person can’t answer without admitting he’s wrong. That means you sweetie. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By cedjunior: Trying too hard. tier rhetoric is always a sure sign a person can’t answer without admitting he’s wrong. That means you sweetie. When I'm not bored by you I might give you the attention that you're craving. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:14:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: First, the ENTIRE POINT of the Fallout games (especially Fallout 1, 3 and 4) is that you start out as a VERY weak and generally clueless character, who is not good at fighting, is not skilled with weapons, and who does not understand how the world works. Then, as you explore and go through the gameplay, you become stronger and more skilled. By the end of the game, you are an unstoppable murder machine with ridiculously powerful weapons and insane skills. Nailed it. That's what I'm hoping for... the protagonist follows the same arc that we did when we play Fallout. We suck ass and have a lot to learn in the beginning and after many trials; then we become fleshy T-800 Terminators. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:18:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cedjunior: When I'm not bored by you I might give you the attention that you're craving. For someone who’s so bored you sure respond quickly. How puzzling. Keep going, I can literally write your script. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:22:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By fike: Female protagonist, so arfcom won’t like it as they “can’t see themselves” in the character. Do you even "black widow perk?" Bro? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:24:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Nailed it. That's what I'm hoping for... the protagonist follows the same arc that we did when we play Fallout. We suck ass and have a lot to learn in the beginning and after many trials; then we become fleshy T-800 Terminators. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: First, the ENTIRE POINT of the Fallout games (especially Fallout 1, 3 and 4) is that you start out as a VERY weak and generally clueless character, who is not good at fighting, is not skilled with weapons, and who does not understand how the world works. Then, as you explore and go through the gameplay, you become stronger and more skilled. By the end of the game, you are an unstoppable murder machine with ridiculously powerful weapons and insane skills. Nailed it. That's what I'm hoping for... the protagonist follows the same arc that we did when we play Fallout. We suck ass and have a lot to learn in the beginning and after many trials; then we become fleshy T-800 Terminators. And still occasionally get wrecked by Deathclaws. Part of me hopes the protagonist comes across Vault Tec Bobbleheads. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:25:49 PM EDT
[#34]
There are ways to present the whole "privilege" thing without falling back on tired modern day political dog whistle language.
The Vault Dwellers who enter the wasteland are typically seen as easy marks, rubes, prime for theft or being conned. And every Fallout story has an early period where the naive Vault Dweller gets taken in / finagled / robbed / etc. An example of that trope being NON "woke" is if the Vault Dweller runs into a raider and the raider robs her, leaves her with nothing in the middle of nowhere, then the Ghoul character comes upon her and he ALSO takes advantage of her in some way. And it isn't until the Vault Dweller toughens up does the Ghoul begin to respect her. Together they meet several good people and several bad people, all with their own agendas and angles. Nobody is truly "good" as it is all about survival in the wasteland. An example of that exact same trope done "woke" is if the Vault Dweller runs into a gang of all female raiders with rainbow hair appear and lecture her about her Vault Dweller privilege and how she owes them reparations, so she willingly gives them all her stuff. Then the Ghoul shows up and lectures her about how he's lived several hundred years now and has learned his white straight male privilege is a curse and that is why he's a Ghoul, so he does chems to forget his crimes as the Vault Dweller mixes him up some special high powered magical chems that make him gay. Then they travel together to a big town called San Francisco where everyone is gay and a person of color, and the city is a beacon of hope and justice and everything right in the new world that is beset by an evil white male Nazi adjacent group called The Enclave who are all the evil white male gun owning bible having Trump analogies the writers could combine, led by "Mister Golden Presidente" who is a computer AI with an orange screen that talks with a certain cadence. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mooseless]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: There are ways to present the whole "privilege" thing without falling back on tired modern day political dog whistle language. The Vault Dwellers who enter the wasteland are typically seen as easy marks, rubes, prime for theft or being conned. And every Fallout story has an early period where the naive Vault Dweller gets taken in / finagled / robbed / etc. An example of that trope being NON "woke" is if the Vault Dweller runs into a raider and the raider robs her, leaves her with nothing in the middle of nowhere, then the Ghoul character comes upon her and he ALSO takes advantage of her in some way. And it isn't until the Vault Dweller toughens up does the Ghoul begin to respect her. Together they meet several good people and several bad people, all with their own agendas and angles. Nobody is truly "good" as it is all about survival in the wasteland. An example of that exact same trope done "woke" is if the Vault Dweller runs into a gang of all female raiders with rainbow hair appear and lecture her about her Vault Dweller privilege and how she owes them reparations, so she willingly gives them all her stuff. Then the Ghoul shows up and lectures her about how he's lived several hundred years now and has learned his white straight male privilege is a curse and that is why he's a Ghoul, so he does chems to forget his crimes as the Vault Dweller mixes him up some special high powered magical chems that make him gay. Then they travel together to a big town called San Francisco where everyone is gay and a person of color, and the city is a beacon of hope and justice and everything right in the new world that is beset by an evil white male Nazi adjacent group called The Enclave who are all the evil white male gun owning bible having Trump analogies the writers could combine, led by "Mister Golden Presidente" who is a computer AI with an orange screen that talks with a certain cadence. An intelligent and well-reasoned counterargument? Sir, this is General Discussion. But you’re absolutely right, you can have a story exploring the idea without it being woke, and your example would be a good watch. (Though note it still has to quickly drop the privilege angle or it’ll automatically degrade into woke.) And the fact that Jonathan Nolan was involved was what originally gave me some hope for this, if not much, because we still live in the times we live in. All I can say is I genuinely hope I’m wrong. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:38:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1Zeppelin: And still occasionally get wrecked by Deathclaws. Part of me hopes the protagonist comes across Vault Tec Bobbleheads. It would be funny if they made a few jokes about the Cazadors being such a pain in the ass. Fuck those things |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:38:18 PM EDT
[#37]
We all hope you are wrong, as we all hope the show will be good.
That is the curse of the modern era... you always have to wonder if the thing you are tasting is laced with poison. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:39:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: We all hope you are wrong, as we all hope the show will be good. That is the curse of the modern era... you always have to wonder if the thing you are tasting is laced with poison. 
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USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:59:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: “[Jonathan Nolan] then explained how the show will use Lucy to moralize to viewers, “Lucy is charming and plucky and strong…and then you see she’s confronted with the reality of, hey, maybe the supposedly virtuous things you grew up with are not necessarily that virtuous. If they are virtuous, they’re couched in a circumstantial virtuousness. It’s a luxury virtue. You have your point of view because you never ran out of food, right? You guys were able to share everything—because you had enough to share.”” Everyone still excited now? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mooseless: Originally Posted By gearsmithy: I saw an article somewhere where the showmakers said they would be leaning into 'political narratives' or other such shit. Sorry but it sounds like it's going to be worse than the last of us. ETA: Found it - "Prime Video’s ‘Fallout’ TV Creators Confirm Show Will Feature Heavy Social Commentary" “[Jonathan Nolan] then explained how the show will use Lucy to moralize to viewers, “Lucy is charming and plucky and strong…and then you see she’s confronted with the reality of, hey, maybe the supposedly virtuous things you grew up with are not necessarily that virtuous. If they are virtuous, they’re couched in a circumstantial virtuousness. It’s a luxury virtue. You have your point of view because you never ran out of food, right? You guys were able to share everything—because you had enough to share.”” Everyone still excited now? She learns that Vault-Tec lied to her, everyone she knows, and Fed them a diet of bullshit all their lives? 100% consistent with lore. Vault-Tec was Nazi level evil.. she’s lucky she was even born, not to mention lived to adulthood as a lab-rat. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:04:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brutus_15: The Boys is woke as all hell…. I liked The Boys, but yes it is woke as fuck. The black superhero literally lynches the white cop-like law and order superhero by dragging him to death. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:05:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: Fallout 1 and 2 are the only Fallouts. (Maybe Vegas.) This, but Tactics and New Vegas make the cut. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:09:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: But hasn't that always been the presentation of the Vault Dwellers vs the Wastelanders? The trope is that the Vault Dwellers either lived in an absolute hell of government experimentation, or they lived in some idyllic 50's style ship in a bottle. Nearly every Fallout game in which the protagonist is a Vault Dweller who come from a world of comfort / plenty that suddenly has a problem requiring them to leave the vault in search of a solution. The Vault Dweller having a culture shock with the Wastelanders is par for the course. They go from a controlled environment to an uncontrolled one. Yes there are class warfare angles to it, but it always has the dark subtext that the Vault Dweller also comes from a government experiment in which they were oblivious. What the purpose of the vault in the show will be is yet to be determined. Sure, the outside Wastelander world might see the Vault Dweller as coming from a paradise of plenty when in reality their vault might have had mandatory buttfuckings every Tuesday or they all got forced sex changes at 18. The vaults were hell, just some hells had nice pillows and dinty moore dinners. I still rate coming out of the vault in fallout 3 as one of the best video game experiences I've ever had. They nailed getting you used to being in a claustrophobic space and then getting into the rest of the world all at once. It was like the wizard of Oz switching to color. Originally Posted By Mooseless: And you were (presumably) born in the US, arguably the top 4% of the world. So I suppose you agree with the privilege arguments being used to flood your country with enemies. I swear, slap a brand on a thing and you can make fans swallow just about anything you feed them. Did you play any of the games that start you out as a vault dweller? |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:15:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By Wineraner: Oh good. More hamfisted shitting all over 'privilege.' "Next Episode, watch as Lucy grinds gecko XP and skins + works fulltime as an apprentice Scribe, so she can maybe afford her own house! Whoops! Here comes that Brotherhood loan payment. (Sad Mr. Handy noises.) Maybe next level...." How awesome/terrible would it be if the first few episodes were the main character walking around and collecting burned books and cans to sell for one cap a piece in order to buy better gear? Lmao Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Actually mentioning China as a bad guy/enemy of the US- that's definitely a start. Think about the 2nd Red Dawn, how MGM totally revamped the movie to make it the North Koreans instead of the Chinese. I still want a sequel to that. It was just getting good at the end. I've always said that if they called it something besides "red Dawn", it wouldn't have been received much better. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:23:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: I'm meaning to check that out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By Hobs98: I mostly agree, however, I really enjoyed the Twisted Metal show on Peacock. I'm meaning to check that out. Its a lot of fun, at least I enjoyed it. No spoilers, but the casting is really well done. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:39:19 PM EDT
[#45]
I thought this wasn't dropping till the 11th?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:41:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Looks totally woke. Fuck that garbage.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:44:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT: The visuals look spot on, all they have to do is not stick their dick in their nose with the story. Fallout is kind of a precarious thing when you think about it... some aspects of it are definitely left leaning, but it has a layer of satire over it all. For me that will be the true meter stick, how it handles the humor. Does it just become another shallow Joss Wedon-y snarkfest or will it actually embrace the dark humor and cynical charm the games have? “Stick their dick in their nose” I HAVE to find a situation to use that |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:02:20 PM EDT
[#48]
 Fallout 4 - Game Movie |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:04:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FlashMan-7k]
[#49]
 FALLOUT 3 All Cutscenes (Full Game Movie) PC 1080p 60FPS HD  FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS All Cutscenes (Game Movie) PC 1080p 60FPS HD  FALLOUT 76 All Cutscenes (Full Game Movie) Xbox One X Enhanced 1080p HD |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:06:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mooseless]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DFARM: Did you play any of the games that start you out as a vault dweller? I played all of the games, from the very first release, at least a half dozen times each, probably more. I have thousands of hours in this franchise. I even played Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel (which didn’t nearly deserve the bad rap it got, it was insanely fun). My view is that people who say things like “X is fine because they did it in the comic/game” (which often just means the woke was placed there years ago and they just didn’t realize it) are missing the point. When Ripley became the hero of Alien and Aliens, it wasn’t because Ridley Scott and James Cameron hated men. But that’s why Rey Skywalker was created. And Michael Burnham in ST: Discovery. And why they killed John Connor in Terminator: Dark Fate to replace him with a charmless Mexican girl. And… It doesn’t matter what happened in a game made twenty-five years ago. We don’t live in that world anymore. No Hollywood type makes a project about privilege in the 2020s without realizing what they’re talking about. Could it be done right? Anything is possible. But that is not the smart way to bet. |
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