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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:20:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#1]
White House announces final plans to close so-called "gun show loophole"
 White House announces final plans to close so-called "gun show loophole"  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:23:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kent: These are the kickers: However there is no minimum threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensing requirement. Similarly, there is no minimum number of transactions that determines whether a person is "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms. For example even a single firearm transaction or offer to engage in a transaction... So, 1) Even ONE transaction can land you in jail as an "unlicensed dealer". 2) Even ONE offer to sell/buy can be a violation, and can land you in jail as an "unlicensed dealer", even though NO SALE/PURCHASE took place. Further: Makes and maintains records to document, track, or calculate profits and losses from firearms repetitively purchased for resale. (emphasis added) So IF you track your firearms in a spreadsheet, notebook, etc., that could be used as proof you are an "engaged in the business of dealing in firearms". Note it says "OR calculate profits/losses" -- it doesn't require you to track money to show intent -- only that you keep ANY sort of record concerning your firearms, regardless of whether there is any sort of money numbers involved. At all times, the determination of whether a person is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is based on the totality of the circumstances. In other words, the BATF agent makes a judgement call that may not have any connection to the rule, but is instead just based on the "totality of the circumstances" and you can be charged on that agent's opinion alone. And....all this time people have been advised to at least get a bill of sale in case your firearm is used in a crime and ATF shows up at your door wanting to know who you sold it to, etc. So now, you kept a record and that's evidence you're a dealer. See how it works? The only solution, peasant, is for you to decide you're fucked no matter what you do and give up all your firearms. Please drop them off at the local ATF office for disposition. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:23:50 PM EDT
[#3]
The gun owning community should factor inflation, secure storage costs i.e. safes, yearly maintenance expenses, such as cleaning supplies and elbow grease, air conditioning and/or dehumidifiers and any other overhead involved in the care and maintenance of their investments.
Any federal charges that don't consider these necessities as part of the final sale value should be challenged in court. Buying a SKS for $125 in the late 80's, doesn't create a profit margin when sold today @ $800 when you factor inflation, secure storage, including an alarm system and safes, maintenance and any upgrades. We still get jury trials for criminal charges; the government would love to sidestep that using civil actions. It only takes one juror to skuttle the government's case. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:26:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Great question. It's been said that ATF wants all transactions to go through an FFL. If that's true would a person be in the clear if they always sell on consignment, or trade personal firearms through a dealer? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Originally Posted By Action45: What if all transfers are going through an FFL? Does that make any difference?? Like most ATF decrees this rule appears to be clear as mud. Great question. It's been said that ATF wants all transactions to go through an FFL. If that's true would a person be in the clear if they always sell on consignment, or trade personal firearms through a dealer? Michigan just passed a law that requires every used firearm transaction to go through a background check prior to completion. You are now forced to go to the local police or sheriff's office to get a permission slip. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:26:38 PM EDT
[#5]
So if you use a credit card, is the credit card company complicit?
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:27:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnhd: Not just "new with all paperwork", the rule says "new, or like new in their original packaging". Let's say you're searching for a new CC and you buy three handguns, fire 50 rounds out of each, and decide to keep one. You go to sell the other two with everything they came with about 6 months later. That would require an FFL in the eyes of the ATF per this rule. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: There's also the "sell within 30 days of acquiring," "repeatedly sell firearms of the same model, etc.", or " sell within a year if still new with all paperwork," etc. Not just "new with all paperwork", the rule says "new, or like new in their original packaging". Let's say you're searching for a new CC and you buy three handguns, fire 50 rounds out of each, and decide to keep one. You go to sell the other two with everything they came with about 6 months later. That would require an FFL in the eyes of the ATF per this rule. Has the government ever prosecuted someone as a dealer who sells one or.two guns per year but keeps several more than that? While I do think these rules are bullshit and shouldn't exist it's still a fact that prosecutors don't like to take cases they are likely to lose unless there is a political aspect. Trying to take someone down or harass them for another purpose |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:27:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TresOsos]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: You get lit up by a federal joint-task force as you're on your way home from grandma's house. One less bolt-action goose gun on the streets and award citations for everyone involved. Do you have any idea how many crimes are committed with 30" bbl 16 gauge 3-rd detachable clip shotguns??? Blood on the streets my friend. https://www.ncis.navy.mil/portals/25/Images/02-18_JTTF.png?ver=2019-10-22-135452-797 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: What are you supposed to do with a firearm that you inherit? You get lit up by a federal joint-task force as you're on your way home from grandma's house. One less bolt-action goose gun on the streets and award citations for everyone involved. Do you have any idea how many crimes are committed with 30" bbl 16 gauge 3-rd detachable clip shotguns??? Blood on the streets my friend. https://www.ncis.navy.mil/portals/25/Images/02-18_JTTF.png?ver=2019-10-22-135452-797 That ain't the way it works hoss, they will wait till 4 AM, come to your house, make it look like a break in, and when you respond, they will gun your ass down. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:28:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kent]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JIMBEAM: Can I write off depreciation? Is profit adjusted for inflation? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JIMBEAM: Originally Posted By jerrmy: Is it for profit if a storage/safekeeping fee was accrued/assessed during the time I owned it? I imagine I've lost money on each one I've sold! Can I write off depreciation? Is profit adjusted for inflation? Originally Posted By victorgonzales: Just toss the packaging and sell them for a fifty dollar loss. I'd imagine the government won't waste resources prosecuting you for that unless there's a pattern of purchase and sell for profit. Has the government ever prosecuted someone as a dealer who sells one or.two guns per year but keeps several more than that? While I do think these rules are bullshit and shouldn't exist it's still a fact that prosecutors don't like to take cases they are likely to lose unless there is a political aspect. Trying to take someone down or harass them for another purpose The rule reads that "profit" ("pecuniary gain") is NOT a requirement for you to be charged as "in the business of dealing in firearms". It actually states that several times. You can lose money on each and every sale and STILL be charged as an unlicensed dealer. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:30:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ENGCPT: So if you use a credit card, is the credit card company complicit? Nah, they just report that you used your card in a firearms transaction. The list will then be accessed by government agencies. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:30:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Has anyone approached Trump or any of the other so called “Second Amendment Advocates” politicians about what they are going to do about this…….Crickets……..
You will get nothing but silence or shocked face after this becomes law. Gun owners are pathetic who they support in government.  |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:31:05 PM EDT
[#11]
This will make me rethink regularly replacing my carry guns. Rather than replacing night sights, springs, extractors, mag springs, ect I just typically buy a new one and sell the old one. I think I’m on my third LCP, third G48 and 5th 365.
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:31:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Illegal decree without the act of congress.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:35:56 PM EDT
[#13]
I just lost my ass trading a 1911 for an ar9
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:36:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: The gun owning community should factor inflation, secure storage costs i.e. safes, yearly maintenance expenses, such as cleaning supplies and elbow grease, air conditioning and/or dehumidifiers and any other overhead involved in the care and maintenance of their investments. Any federal charges that don't consider these necessities as part of the final sale value should be challenged in court. Buying a SKS for $125 in the late 80's, doesn't create a profit margin when sold today @ $800 when you factor inflation, secure storage, including an alarm system and safes, maintenance and any upgrades. We still get jury trials for criminal charges; the government would love to sidestep that using civil actions. It only takes one juror to skuttle the government's case. ATF: "Arrest this guy! He's saying business-y things about firearms, which must mean he's engaged in the business as a dealer in firearms." |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:37:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dsteelman]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captexas: By that definition, anyone that sells or trades in their vehicle for more than they paid needs to be a licensed car dealer. Anyone that sells their house for more than they paid for it years ago needs to be a licensed real estate agent, etc. Who decides what a firearm is worth over time? I guess if I want to sell a gun I no longer want I will self declare the value to me as $10,000 so that I will be selling at a major loss. This is how I see it as well. My truck is always worth more than the pos dealer wants to offer simply because it’s my truck . Same with my firearms . Their value just skyrocketed |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:39:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: This will make me rethink regularly replacing my carry guns. Rather than replacing night sights, springs, extractors, mag springs, ect I just typically buy a new one and sell the old one. I think I’m on my third LCP, third G48 and 5th 365. You selling to prohibited people? If not who cares |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:39:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ServusVeritatis: Illegal decree without the act of congress. Three republicans voted for this |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:40:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jd2395: summary? Am a "dealer" if I sell a rifle to someone locally? Break even..... |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:41:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: You selling to prohibited people? If not who cares Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By StevenH: This will make me rethink regularly replacing my carry guns. Rather than replacing night sights, springs, extractors, mag springs, ect I just typically buy a new one and sell the old one. I think I’m on my third LCP, third G48 and 5th 365. You selling to prohibited people? If not who cares The DOJ cares. This rule is not about background checks or prohibited persons. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:41:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kent]
[#20]
Also, guess what comes next? REGISTRATION and "not reporting a firearms loss within 24 hours" felonies.
How can BATF be expected to ensure compliance with this new rule without knowing who has each firearm? "It's not a new registration requirement -- it is just so that our Government can enforce a rule already on the books. See? You gun nuts keep saying to "enforce the laws we already have" and that is exactly what we are trying to do" |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:43:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: The DOJ cares. This rule is not about background checks or prohibited persons. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By StevenH: This will make me rethink regularly replacing my carry guns. Rather than replacing night sights, springs, extractors, mag springs, ect I just typically buy a new one and sell the old one. I think I’m on my third LCP, third G48 and 5th 365. You selling to prohibited people? If not who cares The DOJ cares. This rule is not about background checks or prohibited persons. Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:44:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kent: Also, guess what comes next? REGISTRATION. How can BATF be expected to ensure compliance with this new rule without knowing who has each firearm? "It's not a new registration requirement -- it is just so that our Government can enforce a rule already on the books. See? You gun nuts keep saying to "enforce the laws we already have" and that is exactly what we are trying to do" Yep. This rule, that they pretend is about background checks, is really intended to kill the secondary market and private party transfers. They want the guns to stay with the original owners because once they enter the secondary market they are too hard to trace. Plus they enjoy fucking gun owners |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:47:26 PM EDT
[#23]
I just give my guns away for free.
Oh BTW have you seen my GoFundMe? Your generous contribution is appreciated. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:48:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Michigan just passed a law that requires every used firearm transaction to go through a background check prior to completion. You are now forced to go to the local police or sheriff's office to get a permission slip. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: Originally Posted By Action45: What if all transfers are going through an FFL? Does that make any difference?? Like most ATF decrees this rule appears to be clear as mud. Great question. It's been said that ATF wants all transactions to go through an FFL. If that's true would a person be in the clear if they always sell on consignment, or trade personal firearms through a dealer? Michigan just passed a law that requires every used firearm transaction to go through a background check prior to completion. You are now forced to go to the local police or sheriff's office to get a permission slip. Maryland has had universal background checks for decades for handguns and listed assault rifles (which have been banned since 2013), and requires the state police to conduct them for $10. When they added the requirement for all other firearms, they didn't write the law for the state police to do the background check for them too. So you're at the mercy of FFL pricing.  Kharn |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:48:50 PM EDT
[#25]
The Safer Communities Act just keeps on giving.
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:49:01 PM EDT
[#26]
I'd imagine there will be compliance and lots of noncompliance as well......
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:49:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse]
[#27]
So, take this anecdote for what you will.
I talked to a friend of mine just now who gave up his FFL right after COVID. He said a customer was in the habit of buying multiple handguns and reselling them at gun shows with no paperwork and of course the guy didn't have a license. He said the ATF busted him, but let him off with a warning. I've known this friend for 20+ years so I know he wouldn't make up a story like that. Crazy but I believe him. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:50:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: So, take this anecdote for what you will. I talked to a friend of mine who gave up his FFL right after COVID. He said a customer was in the habit of buying multiple handguns and reselling them at gun shows with no paperwork and of course the guy didn't have a license. He said the ATF busted him, but let him off with a warning. I've know this friend for 20+ years so I know he wouldn't make up a story like that. Crazy but I believe him. Possible set up? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:51:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:51:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: Possible set up? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: So, take this anecdote for what you will. I talked to a friend of mine who gave up his FFL right after COVID. He said a customer was in the habit of buying multiple handguns and reselling them at gun shows with no paperwork and of course the guy didn't have a license. He said the ATF busted him, but let him off with a warning. I've know this friend for 20+ years so I know he wouldn't make up a story like that. Crazy but I believe him. Possible set up? Don't know. I know there's gotta be more to the story. My off-the-cuff guess is that the customer was recruited to help catch other traffickers with a promise of no prosecution. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:55:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnhd: It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:57:04 PM EDT
[#32]
This doesn't seem like anything new.
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:58:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. So should everyone |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:58:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: So, take this anecdote for what you will. I talked to a friend of mine just now who gave up his FFL right after COVID. He said a customer was in the habit of buying multiple handguns and reselling them at gun shows with no paperwork and of course the guy didn't have a license. He said the ATF busted him, but let him off with a warning. I've known this friend for 20+ years so I know he wouldn't make up a story like that. Crazy but I believe him. How many stories have been posted here about guys with hundreds of guns reselling them at shows and other venues were given a warning then kept in doing it ending up in prosecution? It happens. I don’t care what other people do. But if you’re buying several of the same model on fri and then selling on sat you are in the business according to the goons. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 12:58:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:00:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnhd: It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. They are going to say all Glocks are variants. So selling a Glock 19, 29 & 21 will be the same as selling three 19s |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:02:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: So, take this anecdote for what you will. I talked to a friend of mine just now who gave up his FFL right after COVID. He said a customer was in the habit of buying multiple handguns and reselling them at gun shows with no paperwork and of course the guy didn't have a license. He said the ATF busted him, but let him off with a warning. I've known this friend for 20+ years so I know he wouldn't make up a story like that. Crazy but I believe him. I believe it. In some of the DOJ press releases they have mentioned that the person convicted was previously warned. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:02:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. No. Last pistol I sold I had for 20 years. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:02:44 PM EDT
[#39]
It's nice when this site is unified against gun control. I wish it was consistent.
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:03:29 PM EDT
[#40]
ATF: "Let's make the rules as arbitrary and vague as possible."
.GOV: "Can we fuck people over with these arbitrary and vague rules?" ATF (while masturbating furiously): "Oh fuck yeah buddy, and we will help!" |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:04:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flathead9: This doesn't seem like anything new. It really screws collectors. Doesn’t matter if it’s SAAs, Lugers or Garands. Getting rid of your collection involves repetitive selling the same model or variant there of |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:04:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaverickH1: It's nice when this site is unified against gun control. I wish it was consistent. I don’t believe it is. This shit is nothing new. I guarantee the guy in LR and what happened was a warning to other non licensed dealers. Maybe I’m wrong. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:05:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. Lots of guys here are in the never sell a gun camp. I’ve won guns at matches and immediately listed them for sale. Can’t do that anymore. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:06:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Lots of guys here are in the never sell a gun camp. I’ve won guns at matches and immediately listed them for sale. Can’t do that anymore. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. Lots of guys here are in the never sell a gun camp. I’ve won guns at matches and immediately listed them for sale. Can’t do that anymore. Yes you can. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:06:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Lots of guys here are in the never sell a gun camp. I’ve won guns at matches and immediately listed them for sale. Can’t do that anymore. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. Lots of guys here are in the never sell a gun camp. I’ve won guns at matches and immediately listed them for sale. Can’t do that anymore. I still want to know what happens when a family inherits a gun collection. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:07:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: I still want to know what happens when a family inherits a gun collection. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By johnhd: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Maybe if you are like the guy in Little Rock, buying stuff on fri and selling on sat. Or the cops out in calif buying off roster stuff and flipping them. It states right there if you are in the business. Those guys mentioned are in the business. It also provides the following example as being "in the business of" selling firearms: Repetitively resells or offers for resale firearms— (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or (ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are— (A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or (B) The same make and model, or variants thereof; "Repetitively" is open to their interpretation. Could be as little as two for all we know. None of that applies to me. I keep on doing what I’m doing. You've never bought a gun, shot it a few times and realized you didn't like it? You're now a dealer if you don't wait a year to sell it, or throw away the box. Lots of guys here are in the never sell a gun camp. I’ve won guns at matches and immediately listed them for sale. Can’t do that anymore. I still want to know what happens when a family inherits a gun collection. Keep or sell. Up to you. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:07:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CAsoldier: What about the guns they gave the cartel? Well...thats different. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:08:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By N1150x: So if you have an FFL you can't perform any private sales? It would be stupid for an FFL to engage in private sales. Legal or not it's asking for trouble. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:08:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captexas: By that definition, anyone that sells or trades in their vehicle for more than they paid needs to be a licensed car dealer. Anyone that sells their house for more than they paid for it years ago needs to be a licensed real estate agent, etc. Who decides what a firearm is worth over time? I guess if I want to sell a gun I no longer want I will self declare the value to me as $10,000 so that I will be selling at a major loss. And since I'm a "business" I'm gonna claim it as losses on my taxes |
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USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:09:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: Gun owners are pathetic who they support in government. Because policing what people do in their private lives is WAY more important than smart fiscal policy or 2A rights, so all these ideological mental midgets are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. Pathetic. |
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