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Posted: 4/14/2024 7:56:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Context matters. What was said in context heavily implies full time employment. I have no doubt that this is how TH will try to walk it back. He will just say well we've consulted 3 ocular scientists. That is what he should have just said to start with. This is what used car salesmen and bullshitters do all the time. Bloviate, and mostly don't get called out on it. Then if they are called out, it's "well what I actually meant was...(insert something different than what they said)". I didn't watch the full video because I don't really care but I have listened to a bit of stuff from Haley and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he had those guys on staff. He is absolutely all about the deep dive science behind all this stuff. I think a lot of the stuff he studies is probably good info that can be used to build programs and lessons in the long term. What I've always questioned is how effective some of this highly technical stuff is for low level shooters. I definitely fall into the Stoeger keep it simple camp for that stuff. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:09:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: I didn't watch the full video because I don't really care but I have listened to a bit of stuff from Haley and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he had those guys on staff. He is absolutely all about the deep dive science behind all this stuff. I think a lot of the stuff he studies is probably good info that can be used to build programs and lessons in the long term. What I've always questioned is how effective some of this highly technical stuff is for low level shooters. I definitely fall into the Stoeger keep it simple camp for that stuff. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Context matters. What was said in context heavily implies full time employment. I have no doubt that this is how TH will try to walk it back. He will just say well we've consulted 3 ocular scientists. That is what he should have just said to start with. This is what used car salesmen and bullshitters do all the time. Bloviate, and mostly don't get called out on it. Then if they are called out, it's "well what I actually meant was...(insert something different than what they said)". I didn't watch the full video because I don't really care but I have listened to a bit of stuff from Haley and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he had those guys on staff. He is absolutely all about the deep dive science behind all this stuff. I think a lot of the stuff he studies is probably good info that can be used to build programs and lessons in the long term. What I've always questioned is how effective some of this highly technical stuff is for low level shooters. I definitely fall into the Stoeger keep it simple camp for that stuff. If it's true, that's some serious commitment. The only way I really see it as viable is if uncle sugar is paying for it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:15:52 PM EDT
[#3]
I didn't take it to mean he has three ocular scientists as full time employees, I'd guess they would be consultants or something.
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:18:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By testosteroneOD: I’ve taken a few of his classes. I learned a lot and improved quite a bit. He was helpful and seemed to care. I was the least experienced in our training classes and he spent extra time with me to make sure I learned and understood. Seems like this community just likes to tear people down and eat its own. It’s really disappointing. Agreed. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:26:29 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:32:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: If it's true, that's some serious commitment. The only way I really see it as viable is if uncle sugar is paying for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Context matters. What was said in context heavily implies full time employment. I have no doubt that this is how TH will try to walk it back. He will just say well we've consulted 3 ocular scientists. That is what he should have just said to start with. This is what used car salesmen and bullshitters do all the time. Bloviate, and mostly don't get called out on it. Then if they are called out, it's "well what I actually meant was...(insert something different than what they said)". I didn't watch the full video because I don't really care but I have listened to a bit of stuff from Haley and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he had those guys on staff. He is absolutely all about the deep dive science behind all this stuff. I think a lot of the stuff he studies is probably good info that can be used to build programs and lessons in the long term. What I've always questioned is how effective some of this highly technical stuff is for low level shooters. I definitely fall into the Stoeger keep it simple camp for that stuff. If it's true, that's some serious commitment. The only way I really see it as viable is if uncle sugar is paying for it. Training is big money even on the private side. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:36:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Member when he put blood on a slide and examined it under the microscope after drinking oral IV and made the "blood molecules dance around.!"
Science. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/14/2024 8:50:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Common sense and logic. It seems very unlikely that he employs 3 ocular scientists full time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By macman37: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By macman37: Originally Posted By Advance: Lucas' comment was lol worthy (even though he probably shouldn't have inserted himself into the conversation). https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309598/Screenshot_2024-04-14_104340_png-3187645.JPG Travis is paying it, not Lucas or any of us, so what does it matter? Not only that, if he learns anything of usefulness, someone will copy it soon and it’ll be disseminated pretty fast. But someone’s got to do the research. Teaching isn’t just telling people things you’ve picked up over the years. The seemingly obvious, yet unstated point is that there's a 99% chance that Travis is full of shit. He probably doesn't have 3 ocular scientists on his staff. Whatever the fuck that even is. The obvious issue there is, the guy is a bullshitter and who wants to go get expensive training from someone who spews BS? What basis do you have to say he’s full of shit? Common sense and logic. It seems very unlikely that he employs 3 ocular scientists full time. I don’t know shit about fuck when it comes to firearms instruction but I know what it’s like to pay people. I don’t see any way it pencils out to employ 3 FT ocular scientists to sell some training courses and chest rigs. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 9:44:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Well, yeah. Also, don't forget that MOST of the posters here haven't fired their firearm in over a month. brb 'pop' |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 9:51:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Training is big money even on the private side. meh........if you are getting contracts it can be. There isnt near the money in training that most people think Theres a reason most trainers that do it full time are doing it as a post retirement career |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 10:05:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: No. In the first 30 seconds of the Video in the second post Haley says "We have 3 ocular scientists on staff" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By macman37: We’re basing this on something T Rex Arms said, not what I or (from the thread) Travis said... No. In the first 30 seconds of the Video in the second post Haley says "We have 3 ocular scientists on staff" Cool. I’m not going to argue about this. Haley is trying to do positive things; we’re debating negative things. Beyond that I legitimately don’t care anymore. Sincerely - rock on. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/14/2024 10:20:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mah_lee]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MichaelVain: I'm not interested in the science or the why. Just demonstrate techniques and skillsets that will help me improve as a shooter. If you want me to be target focused, that's fine, just demonstrate it....I dont need a 2 hours dissertation about eye muscles, corneas, or blood flow. But how are you going to show people you're smarter and higher status if you can't rattle off a bunch of shit? Seems like with every endeavor today, the spirit of our times and the internet have many focused on the most MARGINAL shit that makes near zero difference for 99% of people. Shit that only makes a difference at the very tippy top of an art (often dramatically so, tbf), i.e. for people with abnormally good natural aptitude for it and a zillion repetitions This is even funnier, because a world class shooter is saying it is not useful. There isn't a tenth of a second faster time in BRAIN MAPPING |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 10:22:40 PM EDT
[#13]
we're laughing because he only has 3 ocular scientists on staff, right?
ha ha, ha ha, ha looser get more scientists |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 11:27:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: meh........if you are getting contracts it can be. There isnt near the money in training that most people think Theres a reason most trainers that do it full time are doing it as a post retirement career Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Training is big money even on the private side. meh........if you are getting contracts it can be. There isnt near the money in training that most people think Theres a reason most trainers that do it full time are doing it as a post retirement career Then there's places like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch that seem to have done ok. I know it's a hard way to make money but the ones that do it well seem to do alright. Even on smaller scales guys that get tied in with local ranges can do well too in my experience. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 11:28:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RePp: Glover is a complete fucking clown. Expound. Please. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 11:39:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Then there's places like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch that seem to have done ok. I know it's a hard way to make money but the ones that do it well seem to do alright. Even on smaller scales guys that get tied in with local ranges can do well too in my experience. again...meh. Ive been teaching in the private sector since 05. Gunsite and TR are anomalies in the training world and took decades to get where they are. If you look at Blackwater; that place couldnt have survived on open enrollment courses like seen at Gunsite or TR........government money got that place going and keeps it going (and it is an awesome place to train). On the individual training side when the money is good, it can be good but is HIGHLY dependent on the economy and political nature of the country at any given time. Travel, insurance, CPA(s), range supplies, range fees, ammo, etc are all expenses that can eat up your revenue in a heartbeat. Guys that appear to be making a lot of money in the training sector arent doing ti just off of classes. They are getting reitrement checks from other places, have their hands in other areas (product development, consulting). Theres tons of BS in the training world especially when it comes to money. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 11:45:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Ya'll get bent and obsess about stupid shit.
Don't change GD. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 11:52:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: There’s shooting (marksmanship). You find the best shooters in the Olympics and the national matches. There’s gunfighting: which is tactics, movement, cover, communication, judgment, problem solving. “Tactical” firearms courses are usually attended by people trying to learn gunfighting not marksmanship. The military, already knowing gunfighting, sometimes do use civilian instructors to improve marksmanship. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By mban2: Originally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By SV650Squid: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: At some point I wish all these guys would shoot in some big matches so we can really see which "systems" prevail. He might be an ass, but he is a skilled ass who can convey information in a simple to understand manner. How many gunfights has he survived? Has he ever served to see if his methods are effective on a two way range? Considering Ben teaches the organization with the most combat experience in the world… I would say he knows what they need to know regarding getting hits on target fast So…none? Lots of crappy shooters have survived gunfights. These threads always go the same way. The highest level soldiers have been hiring competition shooters to train them for a long time and it kicked into high gear with GWOT. Yet we still see it'll get you killed in the streets mentality. Competition like USPSA doesn't care how you do it as long as you follow some basic safety rules. You can't fake it. Stoeger is known to be one of the best shooters in the world is Haley? Obviously there's a lot to comparing people who are vastly different and no perfect way to do it but I'm a believer of competition weeding out a lot of the bullshit. I don't think Haley is a fraud at all I just think he's down a rabbit hole that might not benefit most people. No different than people with no skills buying expensive guns thinking it will make the difference. I think Travis is smart and hope he continues to really push the knowledge on this stuff I just don't think most people need to go down the rabbit hole. There’s shooting (marksmanship). You find the best shooters in the Olympics and the national matches. There’s gunfighting: which is tactics, movement, cover, communication, judgment, problem solving. “Tactical” firearms courses are usually attended by people trying to learn gunfighting not marksmanship. The military, already knowing gunfighting, sometimes do use civilian instructors to improve marksmanship. The "military" was sending guys to LE tactics classes in the early to mid 2000's to learn CQB stuff. It was great. They sent guys with fullauto M4's and cases of ammo. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 11:56:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Claytonhoneyberry]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: So in the context of firearms training which this thread is about what is your point? Why bring up whether he has survived gunfights? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By StevenH: There’s shooting (marksmanship). You find the best shooters in the Olympics and the national matches. There’s gunfighting: which is tactics, movement, cover, communication, judgment, problem solving. “Tactical” firearms courses are usually attended by people trying to learn gunfighting not marksmanship. The military, already knowing gunfighting, sometimes do use civilian instructors to improve marksmanship. So in the context of firearms training which this thread is about what is your point? Why bring up whether he has survived gunfights? He brought it up because he sucks, can’t compete or shoot at any level, and therefore has to put down those that can actually perform. He’s projecting his weakness onto others. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:17:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: again...meh. Ive been teaching in the private sector since 05. Gunsite and TR are anomalies in the training world and took decades to get where they are. If you look at Blackwater; that place couldnt have survived on open enrollment courses like seen at Gunsite or TR........government money got that place going and keeps it going (and it is an awesome place to train). On the individual training side when the money is good, it can be good but is HIGHLY dependent on the economy and political nature of the country at any given time. Travel, insurance, CPA(s), range supplies, ammo, etc are all expenses that can eat up your revenue in a heartbeat. Guys that appear to be making a lot of money in the training sector arent doing ti just off of classes. They are getting reitrement checks from other places, have their hands in other areas (product development, consulting). Theres tons of BS in the training world especially when it comes to money. Travis and Costa hit the Holy Grail of training with the internet and DVD stuff. And availability of legit training. Going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or even a Tiger class was not something that your semi-average gun dude did. We now have 20+ years of LE/MIL guys rolling out classes and guys with neither but attending classes now instructing. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:22:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Travis and Costa hit the Holy Grail of training with the internet and DVD stuff. And availability of legit training. Going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or even a Tiger class was not something that your semi-average gun dude did. We now have 20+ years of LE/MIL guys rolling out classes and guys with neither but attending classes now instructing. Imagine how things would have changed if Valhalla hadnt closed and Travis would have been working for Rob Pincus instead of Magpul. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:29:48 AM EDT
[#22]
wonder if Travis brought in the ocular specialist after his dustup over his Panteo videos?
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:43:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Imagine how things would have changed if Valhalla hadnt closed and Travis would have been working for Rob Pincus instead of Magpul. Which is why I don't get caught up in this stuff. I like training. Go explore. Or not, and talk shit about internet stuff. LOL |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 7:07:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: runcible]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Context matters. What was said in context heavily implies full time employment. I have no doubt that this is how TH will try to walk it back. He will just say well we've consulted 3 ocular scientists. That is what he should have just said to start with. However, I doubt there's three guys sitting around in a library, reading eye books, when suddenly the red phone starts flashing. One guy takes the call, another runs over to an eye chart on the wall, covers his left eye, "H, A, L, E, Y!" Suddenly, a nondescript bookcase off to the side rolls back, revealing three fireman's poles, and down they go, into action. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 7:37:07 AM EDT
[#25]
I would bet that both the definitions of “ocular scientist” and “on staff” are fuzzy.
You can consult for an sports team without being an FTE. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 8:32:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Travis and Costa hit the Holy Grail of training with the internet and DVD stuff. And availability of legit training. Going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or even a Tiger class was not something that your semi-average gun dude did. We now have 20+ years of LE/MIL guys rolling out classes and guys with neither but attending classes now instructing. 20+ years of LE/Mil means little for being a top notch shooting instructor or shooter in general. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 4:29:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Is Haley making crazy money?
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Posted: 4/15/2024 4:35:17 PM EDT
[#28]
My wife and I went to a wedding this weekend and during the reception, one of the random dudes walked up and asked me if I would take him and his boys shooting. I said sure and asked if they had gone before. They said no but they watched a lot of videos of this guy named Travis Haley and if I knew him.
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Posted: 4/15/2024 4:37:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimEN: Is Haley making crazy money? I hope he is. Good American. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:28:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PacNW5: My wife and I went to a wedding this weekend and during the reception, one of the random dudes walked up and asked me if I would take him and his boys shooting. I said sure and asked if they had gone before. They said no but they watched a lot of videos of this guy named Travis Haley and if I knew him. Do they still have to do the 6 hours in the classroom before shooting, or do they get credit for the online course. 
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:40:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Stoeger knows his shit regarding handguns and competition shooting.
If I wanted tactical type training to survive a 2-way range then I would go to someone else. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:54:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Do they still have to do the 6 hours in the classroom before shooting, or do they get credit for the online course. I don't know why anyone would go to a shooting class with 6 hrs of classroom in this era of the internet. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 11:58:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: 20+ years of LE/Mil means little for being a top notch shooting instructor or shooter in general. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Travis and Costa hit the Holy Grail of training with the internet and DVD stuff. And availability of legit training. Going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or even a Tiger class was not something that your semi-average gun dude did. We now have 20+ years of LE/MIL guys rolling out classes and guys with neither but attending classes now instructing. 20+ years of LE/Mil means little for being a top notch shooting instructor or shooter in general. Sorry, not what I meant. Since the GWOT. The availability of "instructors" teaching shooting and tactics has exploded. A person once had to travel across the country, spend thousands of dollars etc to attend a shooting class. Now they readily available and run from $150 to $300 a day. From a variety of "instructors". |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 12:00:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Sorry, not what I meant. Since the GWOT. The availability of "instructors" teaching shooting and tactics has exploded. A person once had to travel across the country, spend thousands of dollars etc to attend a shooting class. Now they readily available and run from $150 to $300 a day. From a variety of "instructors". And really an untrained person doesn't need Travis Haley or Pat Mac or Thunder Ranch to teach them how to use sights or draw from a holster. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:14:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: 20+ years of LE/Mil means little for being a top notch shooting instructor or shooter in general. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter: Travis and Costa hit the Holy Grail of training with the internet and DVD stuff. And availability of legit training. Going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or even a Tiger class was not something that your semi-average gun dude did. We now have 20+ years of LE/MIL guys rolling out classes and guys with neither but attending classes now instructing. 20+ years of LE/Mil means little for being a top notch shooting instructor or shooter in general. True. And being a world class competitive shooter means little for being an instructor on tactics and self defense. It's like comparing track stars and wide receivers. Two separate sports with some key overlapping skill sets. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:22:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BMSMB]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By testosteroneOD: I’ve taken a few of his classes. I learned a lot and improved quite a bit. He was helpful and seemed to care. I was the least experienced in our training classes and he spent extra time with me to make sure I learned and understood. Seems like this community just likes to tear people down and eat its own. It’s really disappointing. You shouldn't be improving in classes... that just means you don't practice. Classes should show you what you need to practice, and how to practice them. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:26:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: How many gunfights has he survived? Has he ever served to see if his methods are effective on a two way range? Lol you for real? Stoeger has trained more high end war fighters than Haley could ever hope to. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:35:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Ascent-: Interesting. It just seems that everyone finds something to hate about people in the shooting space. I definitely disagree on the dry fire thing and I’m curious about the FBI issue. If he was forced to, if they seized it or he voluntarily gave it up. People don't like grifters... who knew? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:44:30 AM EDT
[#39]
You guys need Jesus
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:51:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keekleberrys: You guys need Jesus He’s here 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 1:53:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sierra-def]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE: I laughed out loud at the video where Ben and Travis are in the same discussion and Travis talks about the amount of time he spends on something in class and Ben laughs at him. "What the fuck?"  skip to 36:45ish  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODw1RiW8EggJust him wearing those glasses makes me laugh as well. being a doctor is sexually transmitted.. Edited to fix an autocorrect. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 2:03:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: being a doctor is sensually transmitted.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: Originally Posted By AJE: I laughed out loud at the video where Ben and Travis are in the same discussion and Travis talks about the amount of time he spends on something in class and Ben laughs at him. "What the fuck?" skip to 36:45ish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODw1RiW8EggJust him wearing those glasses makes me laugh as well. being a doctor is sensually transmitted.. Ocular transmission. That's the why for the scientists and Stoeger's glasses. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 4:35:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Has anyone watched the video that clip came from by chance?
There's so much more context than just a little clip that someone rips apart. Yes, it's an hour and 16 minutes. Suck it up, you need the context if you want to have the discussion.  Travis Haley & John Lovell Discuss Blackwater, Najaf and the #1 Attribute of a Warrior |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 4:40:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: Has anyone watched the video that clip came from by chance? There's so much more context than just a little clip that someone rips apart. Yes, it's an hour and 16 minutes. Suck it up, you need the context if you want to have the discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwB0JckG-bwI dont have the time to watch it right now. Can you tell us if he said he has three ocular scientist on staff or not? What context did he use? Lol |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 4:52:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: macman37]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GutWrench: I dont have the time to watch it right now. Can you tell us if he said he has three ocular scientist on staff or not? What context did he use? Lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GutWrench: Originally Posted By macman37: Has anyone watched the video that clip came from by chance? There's so much more context than just a little clip that someone rips apart. Yes, it's an hour and 16 minutes. Suck it up, you need the context if you want to have the discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwB0JckG-bwI dont have the time to watch it right now. Can you tell us if he said he has three ocular scientist on staff or not? What context did he use? Lol Take the time. I'm not going to spoon feed anyone so they can pick my words apart. (not you, this is what the vid in the original post did) |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 4:53:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: Take the time. I'm not going to spoon feed anyone so they can pick my words apart. Fair enough |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 7:27:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: Has anyone watched the video that clip came from by chance? There's so much more context than just a little clip that someone rips apart. Yes, it's an hour and 16 minutes. Suck it up, you need the context if you want to have the discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwB0JckG-bwIt's a pretty good video, and I like both of those guys. But watching the whole thing doesn't really add any meaningful context to this discussion. Stoeger's point is still valid. Haley does clearly have a huge ego, tends to bloviate and over complicate things. There are multiple examples of him doing these things in that video. Stoeger just found the most efficient clip. That doesn't make Haley a bad guy overall, nor does it make his training bad. He did say a few goofy things. Critiquing army marksmanship for going out to 300m and comparing it to Garand iron sights from WWII is just 
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Posted: 4/18/2024 8:07:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: It's a pretty good video, and I like both of those guys. But watching the whole thing doesn't really add any meaningful context to this discussion. Stoeger's point is still valid. Haley does clearly have a huge ego, tends to bloviate and over complicate things. There are multiple examples of him doing these things in that video. Stoeger just found the most efficient clip. That doesn't make Haley a bad guy overall, nor does it make his training bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By macman37: Has anyone watched the video that clip came from by chance? There's so much more context than just a little clip that someone rips apart. Yes, it's an hour and 16 minutes. Suck it up, you need the context if you want to have the discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwB0JckG-bwIt's a pretty good video, and I like both of those guys. But watching the whole thing doesn't really add any meaningful context to this discussion. Stoeger's point is still valid. Haley does clearly have a huge ego, tends to bloviate and over complicate things. There are multiple examples of him doing these things in that video. Stoeger just found the most efficient clip. That doesn't make Haley a bad guy overall, nor does it make his training bad. You watched it - Props. I mean, I’m not even saying Haley’s on to something here, but I get why someone in the training field might want to engage the services of people who could help him impart knowledge better. Get around human deficiencies. Talk to a wide range of professional people and aggregate what he learns into a curriculum. That’s all I’m saying. We’ve known how to impart knowledge for centuries… I don’t blame a guy for trying to find new and innovative ways to teach modern students. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 8:39:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Stoeger knows how to shoot, that's for sure. I would like to take one of his classes.
With that being said, he is a grade A shit talker and is kind of weird. He seems to have a hard on for SOF guys. Dunno, could be that he just lost his hotty GF to one and it was rumored that his ex wife also took a liking to yoked out SOF Chads. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 8:41:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: You watched it - Props. I mean, I’m not even saying Haley’s on to something here, but I get why someone in the training field might want to engage the services of people who could help him impart knowledge better. Get around human deficiencies. Talk to a wide range of professional people and aggregate what he learns into a curriculum. That’s all I’m saying. We’ve known how to impart knowledge for centuries… I don’t blame a guy for trying to find new and innovative ways to teach modern students. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By macman37: Has anyone watched the video that clip came from by chance? There's so much more context than just a little clip that someone rips apart. Yes, it's an hour and 16 minutes. Suck it up, you need the context if you want to have the discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwB0JckG-bwIt's a pretty good video, and I like both of those guys. But watching the whole thing doesn't really add any meaningful context to this discussion. Stoeger's point is still valid. Haley does clearly have a huge ego, tends to bloviate and over complicate things. There are multiple examples of him doing these things in that video. Stoeger just found the most efficient clip. That doesn't make Haley a bad guy overall, nor does it make his training bad. You watched it - Props. I mean, I’m not even saying Haley’s on to something here, but I get why someone in the training field might want to engage the services of people who could help him impart knowledge better. Get around human deficiencies. Talk to a wide range of professional people and aggregate what he learns into a curriculum. That’s all I’m saying. We’ve known how to impart knowledge for centuries… I don’t blame a guy for trying to find new and innovative ways to teach modern students. Is he doing that? Or is it a sales technique? Get both? When he says Sawdeer I cringe. I spent a year in East Baghdad, we used that name a lot. Practically every day. He is the first one I've ever heard that says Sadr that way. Weird. |
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