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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 2:55:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: 1. Loads of intelligence. Possibly. But unverifiable. "Israel is really helpful, just trust us." CIA (probably). 2. Air Force Base. Have we ever launched a strike from an Israeli base? We didn't get to use it in either Gulf War I or II, but we did get to defend Israel from the SCUDs. 3. An ally in a "hot" region. Isn't the region hot in large part because we defend Israel? 4. A distraction for terrorists. Question. Absent our support for Israel, would these terrorists be targeting us? 1- Not possibly. Absolutely very valuable intelligence. 3- No. Savages will always be savages. A quick history study of the "region or religion" will reveal hundreds of millions of people violently killed each other. 4- The terrorists have been targeting us in more than one way for a long time. Again do a quick history study reveals tons of proof for it. The Western civilization has been targeted for elimination for a long time. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 2:56:59 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm no economist but isn't the operative phrase "per capita"?
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 3:15:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tc556guy: Have you seen the footage of their kids being brainwashed and chanting about killing Israelis while in camouflage and shooting weapons? So it’s ok to kill kids when they don’t agree with you? But letting their parents abort them and preventing a new army of welfare voters is a bridge too far for you? |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 3:28:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By missychapo: 1- Not possibly. Absolutely very valuable intelligence. 3- No. Savages will always be savages. A quick history study of the "region or religion" will reveal hundreds of millions of people violently killed each other. 4- The terrorists have been targeting us in more than one way for a long time. Again do a quick history study reveals tons of proof for it. The Western civilization has been targeted for elimination for a long time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By missychapo: Originally Posted By happycynic: 1. Loads of intelligence. Possibly. But unverifiable. "Israel is really helpful, just trust us." CIA (probably). 2. Air Force Base. Have we ever launched a strike from an Israeli base? We didn't get to use it in either Gulf War I or II, but we did get to defend Israel from the SCUDs. 3. An ally in a "hot" region. Isn't the region hot in large part because we defend Israel? 4. A distraction for terrorists. Question. Absent our support for Israel, would these terrorists be targeting us? 1- Not possibly. Absolutely very valuable intelligence. 3- No. Savages will always be savages. A quick history study of the "region or religion" will reveal hundreds of millions of people violently killed each other. 4- The terrorists have been targeting us in more than one way for a long time. Again do a quick history study reveals tons of proof for it. The Western civilization has been targeted for elimination for a long time. How much intelligence did they have about the October attack? |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 3:32:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Some days I think GD is made of up of 50% Russian/Chinese bots arguing both sides to stir up chaos.
The reality is we don't subsidize Israel. Both the US and Germany subsidize their defense industries via Israel. The US uses Israel to keep aircraft production lines hot, and funnel money to weapons development. See how much "Israeli" shit is actually built in the US. For example their stunner interceptor missile is mostly built by Raytheon and many if not most of the Namer heavy APC hulls come out of Lima. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 4:06:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tyvar: Some days I think GD is made of up of 50% Russian/Chinese bots arguing both sides to stir up chaos. The reality is we don't subsidize Israel. Both the US and Germany subsidize their defense industries via Israel. The US uses Israel to keep aircraft production lines hot, and funnel money to weapons development. See how much "Israeli" shit is actually built in the US. For example their stunner interceptor missile is mostly built by Raytheon and many if not most of the Namer heavy APC hulls come out of Lima. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2024 2:28:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SBR300BLK: Because subsidizing buys international influence Well.....if that's really the excuse.....then every fucking nation on the planet should do exactly what we want then. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 1:37:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By merick: How much intelligence did they have about the October attack? How much did we have about 9/11? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 1:42:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By happycynic: Israel ranks 18th in per capita GDP, the best measure of the relative wealth of a population. That's higher than such economic powerhouses as Germany, France, Great Britain, and Italy. For comparison, the U.S. is 7th. Israel has a border wall and universal healthcare as well. So why do we give them billions every year? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita Most of the money doesn't goto them directly. Its like house credit. We give them $14B and they use that to buy 50 F35s, 25 engines, 1000 A120s etc. Lockheed gets to make missiles and keep Americans working. Oh don't forget10% for the bug guy. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:12:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djkest: How much did we have about 9/11? A great god damn deal of it. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:13:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wolfy42: Most of the money doesn't goto them directly. Its like house credit. We give them $14B and they use that to buy 50 F35s, 25 engines, 1000 A120s etc. Lockheed gets to make missiles and keep Americans working. Oh don't forget10% for the bug guy. H1B Visa hires get jobs and China gets our tech. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:15:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SBR300BLK: Because subsidizing buys international influence, at least that's the theory. In Israel's case a contingent of the voting populace believes they must send funds to Israel or God will punish Americans. We have been since 1948, God has been punishing the ever loving fuck out of us, it’s gotten really bad after the 60s. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:34:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Woodsy: Blackmail dirt on our leaders thanks to the Mossad/Epstein/Maxwell operation Want that shit to stop? Declare a stand down. Cone forward, admit you were tricked, no charges filed, you resign from office and MOSSAD can fuck all the way off. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:35:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: Not trolling, math. As of 8 April 2024, over 34,000 people (33,091 Palestinian and 1,410 Israeli) have been reported as killed in the Israel Hamas war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war I have no issue with Israel prosecuting a war in light of the October 7, terrorist attack, but when you look at the level of civilian casualties, and you factor in all the Israeli officials actively calling for the expulsion of the Palestinians from Gaza, it starts to look a lot like ethnic cleansing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61337/1712347140948433_jpg-3188707.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61337/1704057618967012_png-3188708.JPG How about fucking NO!, uh? |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:37:06 AM EDT
[#15]
I used to think it was a good idea to help Israel back in say, the 90's and 00's when we seemed to have our own shit more or less still in order and had mutual enemies.
Now we can't afford to be doing this shit. Oh well we are on the fast track to South Africa in this country soon since they've bilked us dry. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 2:39:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HiramRanger: How many F-15s does $250 million buy? 2.7 planes. 90m per plane. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 4:50:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: Uncle Sam taxes me, buys a plane, and sends it to Israel. I'm out my tax dollars, and Israel has a plane. That's a subsidy. There is a large population here on GD that will endlessly blame the 'Russians' and 'Chinese' for all things subversion related because criticism of our 'greatest ally' is verboten to them and they need to deflect to groups that are socially acceptable to criticise. Meanwhile, when there is another ethnic group that is blatantly occupying congress as dual citizens, over half of Joe Bidens cabinet, and the heads of almost every major media corporation pushing woke garbage, they will cover their eyes and ears. Who needs AIPAC when you have legions of low IQ McDonalds fed motorized scooter riding NPCs who willfully cuck for a country that wouldn't even consider them for immigration/citizenship. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:29:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tc556guy]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: Question. At what age do they become combatants in your mind? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: Question. At what age do they become combatants in your mind? Throughout history the world never had the same ideas of an extended " childhood" that modern western society has. If they're willing and able to pick up a gun and aggress against you at the age of 12 or so, I figure they're a legitimate target. Of course western soccer moms would vapor lock at the idea, and the terrorists know that so they'll highlight the dead teens bodies after the fact and call them "victims" Originally Posted By Dagoth-Ur: So it’s ok to kill kids when they don’t agree with you? But letting their parents abort them and preventing a new army of welfare voters is a bridge too far for you? They're doing more than disagreeing. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:36:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gudabeg: Now do boomers. Why are the poorer younger generations paying taxes to subsidize them? Because Boomers subsidized the silent and greatest generations. The X's, Millennials and Z's will be subsidized by whatever comes after them. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:55:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Covertness: Because it supports The MIC as designed to get people even richer. I am not one of those people.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 5:59:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bhart89]
[#21]
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Posted: 4/19/2024 6:00:22 AM EDT
[#22]
No kickbacks and cuts if no subsidy?
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FM, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 9:08:33 AM EDT
[#23]
“They’re our only ally in the area…!”
🤔 Hmmm, I don’t seem to remember seeing much of their support in the Gulf War… or with you know like the entire GWOT… Be interesting to do a true (simplified) Cost/Benefit analysis of the relationship. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:15:54 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Reekus: “They’re our only ally in the area…!” 🤔 Hmmm, I don’t seem to remember seeing much of their support in the Gulf War… or with you know like the entire GWOT… Be interesting to do a true (simplified) Cost/Benefit analysis of the relationship. Well, they took scud hits on their cities without responding specifically because WE asked them to stay out of it. That's friendship. Maybe you're not old enough to remember that detail. I'll repeat, we specifically asked them to stay out of it, and they did. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:20:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cancard: Israel is 1/10th of 1% of the land mass that is the Middle East. If we didn’t subsidize Israel, there would be no Israel. Of course we can always spend our tax money on wokism horseshit and welfare. You might have to dumb it down for me… but if it’s such an inconsequentially small amount of land somewhere on the other side of the world, why would I particularly care if it is there or not? Explain to me how there being no Israel is detrimental to me, or how there being an Israel has a positive influence on my life. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:23:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: Well, they took scud hits on their cities without responding specifically because WE asked them to stay out of it. That's friendship. Maybe you're not old enough to remember that detail. I'll repeat, we specifically asked them to stay out of it, and they did. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: Because we devoted a significant part of our military to hunting down the SCUDs for them, as well as flooding Israel with Patriots. Israel didn't "do nothing" so much as they let us do all the heavy lifting. Yet you conveniently left out the part that this was all at our specific request. Somehow that part escapes your very thinly veiled narrative. Very thinly veiled and noticed narrative. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:47:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: happycynic]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wolfy42: Most of the money doesn't goto them directly. Its like house credit. We give them $14B and they use that to buy 50 F35s, 25 engines, 1000 A120s etc. Lockheed gets to make missiles and keep Americans working. Oh don't forget10% for the bug guy. And yes the House employs a couple of folks, but unless you're one of them, or you have stock in House Corp., you ain't benefitting. Oh, and on a purely pragmatic note, since we have a lot of legacy equipment in need of replacing in the U.S., we could get the same positive effects by spending that $3 billion on new F-15s to replace our aging ones. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:51:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: Yet you conveniently left out the part that this was all at our specific request. Somehow that part escapes your very thinly veiled narrative. Very thinly veiled and noticed narrative. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 10:54:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: shotar]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: No, the point is that Israel didn't "lose" anything. They gained immensely as we took out their most dangerous rival in the region. Yes, we were doing it for our own reasons, but your narrative is misguided, which is probably why you're trying to insinuate an improper motive that you just happened to "notice." The fact remains, we asked them not to join in. Those defensive systems we supplied were pretty untried at the time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:38:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: happycynic]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: The fact remains, we asked them not to join in. Those defensive systems we supplied were pretty untried at the time. 1. Israel retaliates. Risk is that Arab states withdraw from coalition, forcing U.S./U.K./French forces to leave before destroying Saddam's Arny. Saddam remains the largest army in the Region and fresh off a victory over western infidels. 2. Israel doesn't retaliate. U.S. destroys Saddam's Army for them, including all the SCUDS (what actually happened). 3. Israel doesn't retaliate. U.S. fails to fully destroy Saddam's Army or SCUD threat. Israel can always retaliate later if Coalition efforts prove ineffective. Why would Israel choose to retaliate immediately? It offers no advantage. |
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FM, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:07:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By happycynic: Because we devoted a significant part of our military to hunting down the SCUDs for them, as well as flooding Israel with Patriots. Israel didn't "do nothing" so much as they let us do all the heavy lifting. He’s too young to have remembered those details |
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