The Ukes never went all in.  1/3 of the women escaped, now live it up in the capitals of Western Europe.

Do the 18-27 age Ukes believe in God and county?

Touché, fixed

You know how a meth head will destroy a half million dollar house to take away $500 worth of copper and then trade that copper for $100 worth of meth?
Politicians are the same way, just bigger.

This would make the whole endeavor a paper tiger, flexing its 'muscle' to the whims of the EU/ State Department/ CIA.
Biden is not willing to do anything he was not told to do. Karens are running the show. Biden is not correct about anything.

Your position seems to be a reversal of your prior positions, the ones that support Ukraine interventionism.

So what you are saying now is you believe NATO to be nothing more than Obama's Red Line[s]?

The US is their beosch. They forgot to recalibrate policy when things changed in 1989. Instead of liberty-minded people running the show in the US, you have all of these Marxist-oriented globalist bureaucrats running it. And they are essentially clueless about how things work outside of their special exclusive bubbles.

Debt incurred by France during the Revolution was a major cause of the French Revolution

Not our problem.  Not one dime for Israel or Ukraine.

NEW: Ukraine ‘ran out’ of missiles to defend key plant, Zelensky sayshttps://t.co/zZym5OLybP

Insider Paper  (@TheInsiderPaper) April 16, 2024

Because Britain and France told Czechoslovakia not to. The Czechs had a better than fair chance of stopping Hitler (with alliance help). They had an excellent armaments industry and good territorial dominance along the border. But both western countries fucked them over diplomatically (to include their treaties), basically telling them to bend over and take it. Czechoslovakia was the nearest thing to an actual Western democracy in central Europe before 1938. That's not true for Ukraine.

Wuuut? But I keep reading how Europe is taking the lead and providing more aid than the US?

Could care less about destroying nato.
We should leave it anyway.
Tucker Carlsons expose of NATO trying to manage and rig elections in Europe to make sure nationalist candidates didn't win was the nail in the coffin for me.

There is a reason they are not mobilizing some of the younger people and instead going for the older people. I wouldn't say that means they didn't go all in, it means they're trying to survive so they have a breeding population. In the past when we had drafts we would draft the younger, they simply did the opposite. But they did do a draft and they have fought pretty hard and paid a lot of blood.

Yup, US support isn’t gonna change the outcome, just the # of people that will die.

Well if they dont go all in now they are absolutely going to lose and their breeding population will be Russian subjects.

Well if they dont go all in now they are absolutely going to lose and their breeding population will be Russian subjects.

Are they fighting for their existence or not . They and the Uke cult here would rather the US send it's under 27 year olds than than let the Ukies actually do it. Our young men are apparently worth less than theirs.

I spent most of my life living when Ukraine was under the boot of Russia. Nothing changes for us regardless if Ukraine is free or controlled by Russia

True. Got me thinking and got me sad knowing we would experience the same if we ever are attacked. Women would flee, recent immigrants will not fight and 90% of soyboys will go to Canada.

But that's patently untrue.

SO...
we fund Iran, Ukraine, and China, but can't support our own?

Biden is a complete fucking piece of shit!

Neither does Israel.

If we don't step in now, the Russians will take the land east of the Dniper. And if that happens, one of their first orders of business will be to set up multiple Auschwitz level gas chambers to wholesale genocide every Ukrainian simply because of the color of their skin. And when that happens, all of the stingy penny pinchers and pacifists in America will have blood on their hands.

Or something like that

buddy, u lost the moment you went to war with Russia...
even that dumbfuck obama knew that....

hmm...if only history had a lesson or two about what being an allied proxy of america means....oh well never mind i guess.....

they had a peace deal which we fucked up 2 months into the war....

they'll surrender....that's how war works

I am skeptical about anything Tucker Carlson does, but I can see the motive if that's true.  Europe kind of has a thing about going to war with itself throughout history, just look at Greece and Turkey today, with tensions between them, but they are both in NATO.  Get too many nationalist candidates winning elections and NATO could effectively dissolve when too many of its European members go to war against each other.

I guess a wall of unequipped men getting slaughtered could be considred going all in.

Attached File

They were never supposed to win.  They are given just enough to slowly bleed Russia while the grifting class collects their money.

Carlson is grifter in chief. He was probably paid for that. I'll call it bs.

It's working for the Russians as Ukraine is losing territory and Donbas, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts and Crimea will absolutely never be Ukrainian again

Ukraine has no chance of winning, because Ukraine never in 30 years developed a modern military capable of defending its territorial borders.

They couldn't stop their incredible political corruption long enough to get their act together post independence.

No nation on earth can build one of the largest modern conventional militaries in the world in a year or even three years while under the pressure of an invasion, it can't be done.  Militaries take decades to build up, military cultures take even longer to establish, and Ukraine didn't put in the hard work that they needed to do for 30 years.   Ukraine is talking about building its own domestic military industrial complex, but that ship sailed a long time ago.  Building a modern military industrial complex takes decades of really hard work at multiple level of society from the skilled labor to the development of a acquisition system that is efficient and not corrupt.  To say nothing of the time it takes just to build factories and put together manufacturing assembly lines (no small task).  

Even post 2014 Kyiv did very little to consolidate their positions along the disputed territorial lines.  There was nothing that prevented Kyiv from supporting their soldiers at that front by creating a defense in depth, which would have better deterred the Russians or at a minimum had slowed them down in 2022.   Digging trenchs and using up Soviet landmines to make a DMZ would have required very little assistance from the outside, but they didn't want to do it.  What defenses were in place at that time were largely just down to grunts who dug here and there with their entrenching tools with little support from actual engineers.  

Ukraine even failed to mobilize prior to the 2022 invasion, even though U.S. intelligence was providing them evidence of the impending invasion.  The Russians were stockpiling blood near the border and still Ukraine failed to mobilize until the day of the actual invasion.  

This was was over before the first shot was fired.  A negotiated settlement that will be very painful for Ukraine is what is next.  Hopefully, for Ukraine's sake they can hold on to Odesa and their Black Sea port.  With some luck I think Ukraine can hold on to everything West of the Dnipro River.  The Russians consider Odesa to be a Russian city and I think Putin has a real desire to get his hands on it, but losing it will be very painful for Ukraine.  Eastern Ukraine and especially Donestk and Crimea are gone though, there is no getting those back this generation.  Russia is going to want some kind of Ukrainian disarmament as well, Russia will want them to basically look like post-WW2 Japan with just a token territorial defense force and likely have something similar to Japan's constitution where they can't carry out offensive operations.  

Russia is getting slowly better as they collectively wake up from their collective vodka induced haze.  In Chasiv Yar in the last few days the Russian VDV (Airborne) are showing signs of being able to coordinate with Close Air Support from fixed and rotary wing aircraft in conjunction with VDV supported by Armor.  Russian EW coverage is very slowly improving, but it's improving and far faster than Ukraine's EW capability.  If this conflict goes on longer, say another year or two, the Russian military might actually reach a state of semi-competence that starts to get into the realm of Western military forces.  It would be far better for NATO for this conflict to end so that Russia can back to its collective vodka induced stupor.

NATO needs to see to NATO.   The USA has over 320,000,000 Americans and 3.797 sq. miles of its own country as its responsibility.  To add to that we are obligated to defend NATO, which is made up of 32 nations for a total of about 967 million people under it. Finally, we have our allies in the Pacific we are treaty obligated to defend that are South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Thailand, Australia and New Zealand.  That's a lot of responsibility that at present we are not prepared to meet.   Meanwhile, while our allies and the USA need to acquire more defense hardware we are dumping money and resources into Ukraine. On top of that, while Ukraine buys up military hardware that increased demand is sky rocketing all defense articles.  Prior to 2022 a 155mm artillery shell was around $1,500 and now they cost anywhere from $3,000 to $5,000!  Defense manufacturers are still behind schedule due to COVID lockdowns and now they have the added strain of trying to unrealistically build a massive conventional military overnight while at the same time everyone else wants more defense hardware. Something has to give, where do we put our limited resources? Do we put those resouces into shoring up the territories we're obligated by treaty to defend or toss them all into Ukraine?

Enough is enough, the USA has to think coldly and rationally placing itself and its treaty obligations first.  We're not a charity, we don't do things because "they're the right thing to do" we do things because they're in our best interest and give our citizens the greatest return on our investment.  More importantly, a strong USA is a proven global stabilizer, if we don't want constant forest fires to spring up all over the world we need to get our feet back under us again.  If the USA continues to spread itself thin and take on too much we'll grow weaker, the world will become even more unstable, and we'll risk total collapse.  

All the more reason we need make and keep more missiles for ourselves.

Oh well.

I just scroll right on past whenever I see that avatar. It's probably a bot. lol.

The war was never meant to be won. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knew that.

The Ukies got suckered and apparently never paid attention to the USA's SOP in recent decades.

Or maybe they knew and just enjoyed being part of the grift while it lasts.

IMO, longterm, had Putin continued that course, eventually Russia probably could have peeled western Europe away from the US. Eastern Europe isn't as dumb. But Putin couldn't stay the course for whatever reason.

Putin is riding the tiger. He's one of the most reasonable Russian leaders. The country was getting pissed off about Nazis killing ethnic Russians in Donbass. The war is very popular with the Russian populace. See all of the guys who are talking about chucking nukes around, completely levelling Ukraine or destroying their infrastructure Iraqi Freedom style.

Yes, NATO tricked him into Ukraine. It may have been better to take Russian refugees and allow Ukraine to complete the ethnic cleansing, but this would have made Putin look weak, and he may have been replaced by someone more bellicose.

That little twerp should have been taken out long ago. He has shit on the bidens so….

To add to that, the random shelling of Donetsk  went on for about 1 decade. They were doing that shit from Avdiivka, and it ended with the full nazi simulator 2024 experience of being on the run from the Russian army, now giving up towns faster and faster

What the fuck?

OMG.    No serious person believes this anymore.

And that includes the US Government:  General Cavoli, the Commander of US forces in Europe told Congress just a few days ago  that not only is the Russian Army 15% larger than it was in 2022, it's meaner, better equipped, and more combat efficient than ever before.  He also added that Russia is now producing more artillery ammo than all of NATO combined.

As for the Russian economy the IMF says it will grow faster this year than all the G7 economies .  Thanks a lot to China, which has helped Russia evade oil sanctions and supply all their technology needs .

Your worldview of a weak Russia has been literally destroyed -- or it soon will be.

Do you think the Russian soldiers want to be there?  Do you think their family supports the war?  It isn't the Russians, it's fucking Putin.
Those Russian civilians and probably the majority of the military aren't any different than you and me.

The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but she be warming up behind the stage...

You get used to it after a while.

Zelensky needs to recalibrate his public relations strategy away from “more, more, more, more.” He asked for C-17s, F-18s, and a THAAD system last time he was in the US! I don’t know about you, but that’s offensive to me.

What are we going to get in return for our support to Ukraine? How will they repay us?
And the biggest question I have is: How does this end? What do they need that would bring the war to a conclusion?

Americans consider themselves the good guys on a global scale. Our national psyche is still based on a WW2 model of good/bad, fight for freedom, fight against unjust oppression, etc…the issue is that #1 very little of this is true any more and #2 this willingness to do "what is right no matter the cost" is manipulated and used for personal gain and profit by both politicians, on many levels, and industry.  

As for Zelensky I see him as a figurehead of a very corrupt nation in very corrupt and brutal region of the world that's embroiled in conflict for profit. It also needs to be said that  Zelensky played along with the US's plan to bait Putin into conflict.  

Putin also gets credit as a bad guy for taking the bait…in other words we, the US, anticipated fairly accurately how Putin would react to not only to our machinations in Ukraine but we also knew that Putin had designs as well, so the stars were in alignment to keep our defense industry afloat.

So to your question as to what would it take to end this….it's not a simple answer as there are variables and Putin also gets a vote.  

That being said Zelensky needs to lay out the strategic vision of what "peace" looks like and what he needs to get there. Part of that will be negations with Russia which he seems unwilling to do. Is that being driven by national interests or his masters in DC?  Will Russia ever accept Ukraine in the NATO sphere of influence and in all honesty should they?  We, NATO and the US, have repeatedly lied to Russia and encroached closer and closer to their homeland….remember when the wall came down and we told them not one inch closer?  We lied.  

So anyways this conflict is dynamic, rapidly changing. Operational end states will change on an almost daily basis but that's not the gist. The gist is profit and lots of people are making very serious money and lots of US politicians are staying in office because their constituents need the jobs.  

So for the time being this slog is very, very profitable for a lot of actors, both there and here, and trying determine what "victory" looks like has to be looked at through that lens.  This is simply a business model under the guise of"fighting for freedom".  

lol. I think what he’s saying is if russia loses our border will be closed?

Woodrow Wilson made neoconning possible.

Blame Boris Johnson.

Sir, those questions are not allowed to be asked in gd.

I think it’s sarcasm mocking people who support Russia in the war.

Large swaths here get a lot of satisfaction in bad news happening to Ukraine/Ukrainians just because of their hate for Zelenskyy.
I think his age had a huge factor in "now is the time to step it up". He has his goals (not Russia's goals) and at 70+, he can't keep playing the long game.

had we never started fucking around 10 years ago, this whole thing probably wouldn't have happened