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Not gonna lie, I’m a big fan of Grahams ideas, not so much Graham the personality. I really want his ideas to be true. He got pwned by the fag.
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Originally Posted By MADMAXXX: If you want to see some very interesting discoveries that show some ancients had to have some sort of advanced technology other than bronze chisels look at this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZi4sIMhad8 View Quote Makes ya wonder what the CCP is hiding from the world |
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You would think if you’ll be on a video that millions of people will watch you would buy a shirt that fits.
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Fat fucking goofy redditor knows a shit ton about human history but couldn't tell you what pussy feels like I guarantee it.
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wtf is flint dibble.
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why, oh why GOD WAS I BORN IN CALIFORNIA..
AK, USA
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RIP Tamurand a damn fine Rhodesian Ridgeback 02-09-14
RIP Kaya, an equally fine Yellow Lab 06-08-2015 RIP Millie the Destroyer, AKA ShitTrumpet, WCCorgi 12-21-2015 NORCAL CALLSIGN: YODEL Happy to be in ALASKA! |
Originally Posted By Cypher214: Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society. That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work. "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers. He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By bobsters06: He's suggested such, as referenced in that video which is why I brought it up. However, replace my "Industrial Age" with "Ancient advanced civilization" and it doesn't really change the outcome, they haven't found evidence of either. This was additionally addressed with the shipwrecks, they have found thousands of shipwrecks and haven't found one older than what's referenced in the video mentioned. It seems that Graham addresses both points by saying "Well, we just haven't found it YET". Cool, we haven't found any evidence suggesting that Graham's theory is accurate or founded and he confirms in that video that they haven't found evidence confirming such. The video really comes off like him trying to defend his lifeworks from valid points addressing his wild suppositions, and he spends more time addressing the attacks against him from actual Archeologists than actually trying to prove his theories which falls in line with his self-admitted contrarian attitude, which is a bit ironic considering Graham has probably had more platforms, media attention and social clout than dribble EVER has had, yet he poses himself as some sort of victim to "big archeology". One of them has a had numerous books, shows, docu-series and media appearances that even I (who never seeks this type of information out) am aware of. The other I didn't even know existed until this thread was posted. Admittedly, Graham's is more entertaining and therefore it's likely why he gets the attention. View Quote Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up. It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling. |
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up. It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling. View Quote Just how much evidence do you think is going to be left after 10k+ years and a world-resetting catastrophe? If that happened, and I believe it did, pretty much the only thing that is going to be left is megalithic stone structures — which cannot be carbon dated. I am of the mind that the megalithic work was done for that exact purpose, because the resetting of earth happened before and whomever built them wanted them to withstand the next one. |
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up. It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling. View Quote Similar to the notion that there is likely a planet somewhere in the vastness of the universe that has nurtured intelligent life. |
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: Just how much evidence do you think is going to be left after 10k+ years and a world-resetting catastrophe? If that happened, and I believe it did, pretty much the only thing that is going to be left is megalithic stone structures — which cannot be carbon dated. I am of the mind that the megalithic work was done for that exact purpose, because the resetting of earth happened before and whomever built them wanted them to withstand the next one. View Quote You can believe anything you like, but if you want anyone else to take your idea seriously you really do need some evidence. |
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: You can believe anything you like, but if you want anyone else to take your idea seriously you really do need some evidence. View Quote Where’s the evidence of how the pyramids were constructed? There isn’t any. So how is it that the academics can make assumptions and it’s okay, but when Graham does it, he needs to present the evidence? Mind you, these same people telling Graham to present the evidence are the same ones proclaiming all the insane granite sculpting was done with brass and copper chisels — or better yet, pounding stones. |
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: Where’s the evidence of how the pyramids were constructed? There isn’t any. So how is it that the academics can make assumptions and it’s okay, but when Graham does it, he needs to present the evidence? View Quote Yes, there is. The ancient aliens crowd doesn't like it though. |
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Graham sells dreams and fantasies and business is a booming.
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Don't you tell me about galaxies! I walk them in the timeline.
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35 minutes in, budget indiana jones is afraid to look at hancock.
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: Mind you, these same people telling Graham to present the evidence are the same ones proclaiming all the insane granite sculpting was done with brass and copper chisels — or better yet, pounding stones. View Quote https://precision-marble.com/can-you-cut-granite-with-copper/ I've been to the quarries and seen the tool marks, have you? |
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: https://precision-marble.com/can-you-cut-granite-with-copper/ I've been to the quarries and seen the tool marks, have you? View Quote I am more referring to the really impressive stuff. So you believe those granite (and harder stone) vases with narrow necks were made with copper/brass chisels? When the tolerances in deviation of its construction is measured in thousandths of an inch? I do not claim to know how this was done, but it’s a hell of a reach to say that was done with copper/brass chisels. |
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Originally Posted By BillofRights: That was a brutal slog. I even took a restless nap leaving it playing in the backround. (Very much, Not recommended). Smarmy millennial Jones, has one main contention: He has found no Seeds demonstrating the use of domesticated crops prior to 12600 years ago. (Therefore Graham’s lost civilization could not have existed) Also, Hipster Jones and associates, tried to cancel Graham off Netflix, by calling him Racist, Misogynistic, White Supremest, Anti-Semetic etc. but his Tiny Hands were the most disturbing part. Why was he covering his wrists like that? It almost makes me want to join his twitter and ask him. . Alien or Birth Defect: You decide. View Quote He is unemployable being a huge dbag i had never heard of before. Therefore as someone with no real income, he has to buy all his clothes from a second hand shop, and they used to belong to some dead guy. So he had no good clothes but moth eaten and patchouli stained tshirts for his big podcast appearance, |
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why, oh why GOD WAS I BORN IN CALIFORNIA..
AK, USA
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The og shovelbum in me is having a good chuckle so far. And I haven't even started to listen to the podcast.
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RIP Tamurand a damn fine Rhodesian Ridgeback 02-09-14
RIP Kaya, an equally fine Yellow Lab 06-08-2015 RIP Millie the Destroyer, AKA ShitTrumpet, WCCorgi 12-21-2015 NORCAL CALLSIGN: YODEL Happy to be in ALASKA! |
Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: I am more referring to the really impressive stuff. So you believe those granite (and harder stone) vases with narrow necks were made with copper/brass chisels? When the tolerances in deviation of its construction is measured in thousandths of an inch? I do not claim to know how this was done, but it’s a hell of a reach to say that was done with copper/brass chisels. View Quote Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art. We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them. Now can we leave behind the whataboutism? Google can answer these questions for you too. A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation. |
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I've listened to the entire thing today while working. Flint is a little bitch. Graham didn't win any argument imho, but the Flint laughing constantly, and then pulling the racism, and all the other ism's, is a total cuck move
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art. We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them. Now can we leave behind the whataboutism? Google can answer these questions for you too. A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation. View Quote |
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Finished it last night. While I dislike the funny hat kid because of his woke bullshit he completely dismantled almost all of Graham's arguments and made a very good evidence based case for there not being a large advanced ice age civilization that was wiped out.
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art. We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them. Now can we leave behind the whataboutism? Google can answer these questions for you too. A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation. View Quote It’s all speculation. Nobody knows 100%. The ancient Egyptians very well could have set up shop and started inhabiting the area where some of that already existed. When you consider that most of the megalithic and super impressive stuff is affiliated with the old kingdom and somehow gets progressively worse as time goes on, it kind of looks as if they did stumble upon a lot it. |
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Originally Posted By wakeboarder: https://media.tenor.com/ZLXGWbun29YAAAAM/%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%AE%D9%87.gif View Quote Mountain of evidence that ice age people were all hunter gatherers. At most lived in some large communities taking advantage of very fertile areas . Allowing a bit of dabling into arts and structure maybe even noticing astrology because food was plenty without farming vs "but you have looked under every stone in every corner of the sea ?". He even had graham somewhat admitting that at best there may have been hunter gatherers that had some astrology knowledge. Pretty far from his past assumptions and claims. |
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales: Man I was on team Graham going into this but it really piled up. Mountain of evidence that ice age people were all hunter gatherers. At most lived in some large communities taking advantage of very fertile areas . Allowing a bit of dabling into arts and structure maybe even noticing astrology because food was plenty without farming vs "but you have looked under every stone in every corner of the sea ?". He even had graham somewhat admitting that at best there may have been hunter gatherers that had some astrology knowledge. Pretty far from his past assumptions and claims. View Quote Hunter gatherer Virgo? Haha |
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: It’s all speculation. Nobody knows 100%. The ancient Egyptians very well could have set up shop and started inhabiting the area where some of that already existed. When you consider that most of the megalithic and super impressive stuff is affiliated with the old kingdom and somehow gets progressively worse as time goes on, it kind of looks as if they did stumble upon a lot it. View Quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved. The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom. Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases? No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.) This is his only reference. He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement. |
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"I assure you, Mr. Mowry, that I am quite serious when I ask you to oblige by walking bow-legged."
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales: Man I was on team Graham going into this but it really piled up. Mountain of evidence that ice age people were all hunter gatherers. At most lived in some large communities taking advantage of very fertile areas . Allowing a bit of dabling into arts and structure maybe even noticing astrology because food was plenty without farming vs "but you have looked under every stone in every corner of the sea ?". He even had graham somewhat admitting that at best there may have been hunter gatherers that had some astrology knowledge. Pretty far from his past assumptions and claims. View Quote The thing is, if Graham was paying attention and caring about getting science right instead of just puffing up his media empire, he would've known all of that. Is he even interested in archaeology beyond his theories? His followers sure aren't. |
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Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993. Soli Deo Gloria |
Originally Posted By DaGoose: List of some of the papers that have been shown so far (about 1/3 of the way done going through it again). Ancient Lowland Maya Complexity as Revealed by Airborne Laser Scanning of Northern Guatemala https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327930789_Ancient_Lowland_Maya_Complexity_as_Revealed_by_Airborne_Laser_Scanning_of_Northern_Guatemala#:~:text=The%20findings%20indicate%20that%20this%20Lowland%20Maya%20society,and%20the%20interactions%20between%20rural%20and%20urban%20communities. A submerged Stone Age hunting architecture from the Western Baltic Sea https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121 Lead pollution recorded in Greenland ice indicates European emissions tracked plagues, wars, and imperial expansion during antiquity https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1721818115#:~:text=An%201100%20BCE%20to%20800%20CE%20record%20of,events%2C%20including%20imperial%20expansion%2C%20wars%2C%20and%20major%20plagues. Oxford Shipwreck database https://oxrep.web.ox.ac.uk/shipwrecks-database Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881 The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Gobekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A1AA4FB20657599F859860D94CCD090E/S0003598X00047840a.pdf/role_of_cult_and_feasting_in_the_emergence_of_neolithic_communities_new_evidence_from_gobekli_tepe_southeastern_turkey.pdf Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169486 New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923 High Desert Paleolithic Survey at Abydos, Egypt https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40852525_High_Desert_Paleolithic_Survey_at_Abydos_Egypt The Cave Paintings of the Cosquer Cave https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/index.php Late Glacial rapid climate change and human response in the Westernmost Mediterranean (Iberia and Morocco) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225049 The Impacts of Geography and Climate Change on Magdalenian Social Networks https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317050627_The_impacts_of_geography_and_climate_change_on_Magdalenian_social_networks INTERCONNECTED MAGDALENIAN SOCIETIES AS REVEALED BY THE CIRCULATION OF WHALE BONE ARTEFACTS IN THE PYRENEO-CANTABRIAN REGION https://hal.science/hal-03104414v1/file/QSR_whalebone_HAL.pdf View Quote I briefly googled things here and there and mostly found dumb media articles and just went about my day. I remember in it's early days just googling something like ice age man kind or ore history or something would bring up lists of real documents like that rather than media stories . I'm hoping AI will fix that if there remains a non programmed AI option. Where if you want to learn something the AI will be able to local real and specific information lists like that. I think google is actually making people dumber because they believe media stories are evidence and that's all you can easily find in most search engines |
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Originally Posted By wombat25: I'm the last person to side with academic institutions and the prevailing narrative on almost any subject these days, but I have to admit, Flint may have ended Graham's career with this debate. Graham constantly acts like compelling evidence for his theories is right in front of our eyes, but when asked for it by someone in his field, there's nothing except 'well, it hasn't been found yet because someone hasn't discovered it yet.' 'Oh, and here's some photos of underwater rocks my wife and I took.' Sorry, no. By this measure, he might as well lay claim to mermaids or sea monsters. After all, we haven't explored the entire ocean, right? Someone might still find them. Any day now, guys. Then he claims that mainstream archeologists are mean to him. Boo hoo. Produce some actual evidence and they might ease up. Granted, Flint did absolutely try to associate Graham with racists, and then denied he did so, but it still doesn't change the fact that Graham was given every opportunity in four-plus hours to produce some real evidence to a sort-of colleague and came with nothing even remotely interesting, much less compelling. View Quote Nope.....Flint is a know it all |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society. That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work. "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers. He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By bobsters06: Originally Posted By midcap: ...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line. I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards. If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives. Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up. Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society. That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work. "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers. He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones. Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff. |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By midcap: Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By bobsters06: Originally Posted By midcap: ...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line. I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards. If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives. Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up. Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society. That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work. "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers. He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones. Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff. Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities. But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization. He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology. Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking. |
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales: You know what's disappointing is how poorly google works nowdays. I haven't researched all this because I don't care that much but always found Graham's theory fun and interesting. Never really bought the idea that a technology society would have existed that near without evidence but maybe some kind of big primitive farming society. I briefly googled things here and there and mostly found dumb media articles and just went about my day. I remember in it's early days just googling something like ice age man kind or ore history or something would bring up lists of real documents like that rather than media stories . I'm hoping AI will fix that if there remains a non programmed AI option. Where if you want to learn something the AI will be able to local real and specific information lists like that. I think google is actually making people dumber because they believe media stories are evidence and that's all you can easily find in most search engines View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By victorgonzales: Originally Posted By DaGoose: List of some of the papers that have been shown so far (about 1/3 of the way done going through it again). Ancient Lowland Maya Complexity as Revealed by Airborne Laser Scanning of Northern Guatemala https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327930789_Ancient_Lowland_Maya_Complexity_as_Revealed_by_Airborne_Laser_Scanning_of_Northern_Guatemala#:~:text=The%20findings%20indicate%20that%20this%20Lowland%20Maya%20society,and%20the%20interactions%20between%20rural%20and%20urban%20communities. A submerged Stone Age hunting architecture from the Western Baltic Sea https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121 Lead pollution recorded in Greenland ice indicates European emissions tracked plagues, wars, and imperial expansion during antiquity https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1721818115#:~:text=An%201100%20BCE%20to%20800%20CE%20record%20of,events%2C%20including%20imperial%20expansion%2C%20wars%2C%20and%20major%20plagues. Oxford Shipwreck database https://oxrep.web.ox.ac.uk/shipwrecks-database Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881 The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Gobekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A1AA4FB20657599F859860D94CCD090E/S0003598X00047840a.pdf/role_of_cult_and_feasting_in_the_emergence_of_neolithic_communities_new_evidence_from_gobekli_tepe_southeastern_turkey.pdf Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169486 New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923 High Desert Paleolithic Survey at Abydos, Egypt https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40852525_High_Desert_Paleolithic_Survey_at_Abydos_Egypt The Cave Paintings of the Cosquer Cave https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/index.php Late Glacial rapid climate change and human response in the Westernmost Mediterranean (Iberia and Morocco) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225049 The Impacts of Geography and Climate Change on Magdalenian Social Networks https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317050627_The_impacts_of_geography_and_climate_change_on_Magdalenian_social_networks INTERCONNECTED MAGDALENIAN SOCIETIES AS REVEALED BY THE CIRCULATION OF WHALE BONE ARTEFACTS IN THE PYRENEO-CANTABRIAN REGION https://hal.science/hal-03104414v1/file/QSR_whalebone_HAL.pdf I briefly googled things here and there and mostly found dumb media articles and just went about my day. I remember in it's early days just googling something like ice age man kind or ore history or something would bring up lists of real documents like that rather than media stories . I'm hoping AI will fix that if there remains a non programmed AI option. Where if you want to learn something the AI will be able to local real and specific information lists like that. I think google is actually making people dumber because they believe media stories are evidence and that's all you can easily find in most search engines I haven't used this yet: https://search.marginalia.nu/search?query=Pkm+machinegun&js=default&adtech=default&searchTitle=default&profile=corpo&recent=default Ignore the "PKM Machinegun." That's just something I was going to search when I copied the link. |
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Originally Posted By NotJackMiller: Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities. But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization. He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology. Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NotJackMiller: Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By bobsters06: Originally Posted By midcap: ...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line. I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards. If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives. Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up. Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society. That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work. "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers. He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones. Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff. Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities. But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization. He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology. Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking. that's what I am talking about....you are correct. Hancock says things that are plausible. We need to remember that prior to the 1990s....majority of scientist said there were no exoplanets and any one who thought so were foolish. TESS shut that debate down...we have a shit load of exoplanets in the universe. |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved. The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom. Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases? No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.) This is his only reference. He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement. View Quote Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let’s say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them. Problem is, there were 10’s of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn’t make any sense. |
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Originally Posted By midcap: that's what I am talking about....you are correct. Hancock says things that are plausible. We need to remember that prior to the 1990s....majority of scientist said there were no exoplanets and any one who thought so were foolish. TESS shut that debate down...we have a shit load of exoplanets in the universe. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By NotJackMiller: Originally Posted By midcap: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By bobsters06: Originally Posted By midcap: ...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line. I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards. If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives. Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up. Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society. That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work. "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers. He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones. Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff. Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities. But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization. He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology. Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking. that's what I am talking about....you are correct. Hancock says things that are plausible. We need to remember that prior to the 1990s....majority of scientist said there were no exoplanets and any one who thought so were foolish. TESS shut that debate down...we have a shit load of exoplanets in the universe. So what you're saying is that NASA created vast numbers of exoplanets and at the documented rate of discovery, the universe will fill with them in about twenty years. |
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let's say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them. Problem is, there were 10's of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn't make any sense. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved. The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom. Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases? No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.) This is his only reference. He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement. Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let's say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them. Problem is, there were 10's of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn't make any sense. Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years. It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things . |
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I don't know if I will get around to listening to this. The main reason I enjoy listening to and watching Graham is because it's clear that he loves his work so much and he covers interesting things that aren't well known. The other reason is that I absolutely believe that the current system is corrupt because we see it in so many things. The system doesn't like to be challenged and I seem to find myself rooting for the underdog. Academia is corrupt just like politics. They don't like being challenged and embarrassed because it threatens their ability to control the narrative and keep their system in place.
It seems like there are constantly discoveries that challenge mainstream ideas about when and where people were and what they were capable of. I just wish that all institutions were really about spreading knowledge for everyone. |
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BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles. People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird. |
Originally Posted By victorgonzales: It kinda does though. I believe we have lost a lot of hand working techniques from dead societies. Humans are smart. A technique could have been invented and a few hundred people who learned it over a generation or two could have made their entire living cranking out this amazing object or building technique 12 hours a day creating hundreds or thousands of them until a better or more practical item or method took over. With stone works many of those items will survive. We think omg they must have had a machine. No way they could make a thousand of these without it. When in truth over a hundred years a hundred people making them all day every day could easily do that. They had nothing better to do with their time if their society thrived with agriculture. Much like today having special skills probably made primitive people wealthier in their society. They could trade their works for whatever they want. So there's motivation to make amazing things and learn techniques. Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years. It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By victorgonzales: Originally Posted By Anonymoose1: Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved. The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom. Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases? No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.) This is his only reference. He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement. Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let's say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them. Problem is, there were 10's of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn't make any sense. Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years. It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things . that's absolutely true....where I grew up trawl nets and all nets were made by hand, everyone who fished knew how to make a net. had to if your net tore out in the marsh you had to fix it out there. Now...I know maybe 5 people total that can make a net and they aren't teaching anyone new. In 50 years. There will be no more net makers where I grew up |
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Take it easy and if it's easy take it twice
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