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Link Posted: 4/18/2024 4:54:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Not gonna lie, I’m a big fan of Grahams ideas, not so much Graham the personality. I really want his ideas to be true. He got pwned by the fag.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:18:01 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By MADMAXXX:
If you want to see some very interesting discoveries that show some ancients had to have some sort of advanced technology other than bronze chisels look at this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZi4sIMhad8
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Makes ya wonder what the CCP is hiding from the world
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:27:34 PM EDT
[#3]
You would think if you’ll be on a video that millions of people will watch you would buy a shirt that fits.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:29:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HLB0302:
You would think if you’ll be on a video that millions of people will watch you would buy a shirt that fits.
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He mentioned in a posting that he was fighting cancer again, so may have had a large weight loss during treatment.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Fat fucking goofy redditor knows a shit ton about human history but couldn't tell you what pussy feels like I guarantee it.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rustynutzz:
Fat fucking goofy redditor knows a shit ton about human history but couldn't tell you what pussy feels like I guarantee it.
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Have you ever been a grad student on a dig?
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:43:17 PM EDT
[#7]
wtf is flint dibble.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:44:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wakeboarder:


Have you ever been a grad student on a dig?
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Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:50:16 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.
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Gobekli Tepe was a Zoo. Either just prior to or just after the great flood.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 5:55:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bobsters06:


He's suggested such, as referenced in that video which is why I brought it up. However, replace my "Industrial Age" with "Ancient advanced civilization" and it doesn't really change the outcome, they haven't found evidence of either.  This was additionally addressed with the shipwrecks, they have found thousands of shipwrecks and haven't found one older than what's referenced in the video mentioned. It seems that Graham addresses both points by saying "Well, we just haven't found it YET".

Cool, we haven't found any evidence suggesting that Graham's theory is accurate or founded and he confirms in that video that they haven't found evidence confirming such. The video really comes off like him trying to defend his lifeworks from valid points addressing his wild suppositions, and he spends more time addressing the attacks against him from actual Archeologists than actually trying to prove his theories which falls in line with his self-admitted contrarian attitude, which is a bit ironic considering Graham has probably had more platforms, media attention and social clout than dribble EVER has had, yet he poses himself as some sort of victim to "big archeology".

One of them has a had numerous books, shows, docu-series and media appearances that even I (who never seeks this type of information out) am aware of.  The other I didn't even know existed until this thread was posted.  Admittedly, Graham's is more entertaining and therefore it's likely why he gets the attention.
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Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up.  It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:05:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Anonymoose1] [#11]
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up.  It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling.
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Just how much evidence do you think is going to be left after 10k+ years and a world-resetting catastrophe? If that happened, and I believe it did, pretty much the only thing  that is going to be left is megalithic stone structures — which cannot be carbon dated. I am of the mind that the megalithic work was done for that exact purpose, because the resetting of earth happened before and whomever built them wanted them to withstand the next one.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:08:24 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By feetpiece:
Like a gayer clone of Adam ruins everything. Joe should feel bad for putting Graham through that retards colostomy bag of archaeological experienth
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He looks like he's wearing daddy's suit to play work.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:12:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up.  It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling.
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As entertaining philosophy- It is fun to postulate about cycling rounds of intelligent life on earth. It puts in perspective how long the earth has fostered and maintained multicellular lifeforms.

Similar to the notion that there is likely a planet somewhere in the vastness of the universe that has nurtured intelligent life.

Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:30:18 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:

Just how much evidence do you think is going to be left after 10k+ years and a world-resetting catastrophe? If that happened, and I believe it did, pretty much the only thing  that is going to be left is megalithic stone structures — which cannot be carbon dated. I am of the mind that the megalithic work was done for that exact purpose, because the resetting of earth happened before and whomever built them wanted them to withstand the next one.
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You can believe anything you like, but if you want anyone else to take your idea seriously you really do need some evidence.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:34:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Anonymoose1] [#15]
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


You can believe anything you like, but if you want anyone else to take your idea seriously you really do need some evidence.
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Where’s the evidence of how the pyramids were constructed? There isn’t any. So how is it that the academics can make assumptions and it’s okay, but when Graham does it, he needs to present the evidence?

Mind you, these same people telling Graham to present the evidence are the same ones proclaiming all the insane granite sculpting was done with brass and copper chisels — or better yet, pounding stones.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:46:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:

Where’s the evidence of how the pyramids were constructed? There isn’t any. So how is it that the academics can make assumptions and it’s okay, but when Graham does it, he needs to present the evidence?
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Yes, there is.  The ancient aliens crowd doesn't like it though.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:49:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Graham sells dreams and fantasies and business is a booming.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:54:01 PM EDT
[#18]
35 minutes in, budget indiana jones is afraid to look at hancock.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 6:58:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:

Mind you, these same people telling Graham to present the evidence are the same ones proclaiming all the insane granite sculpting was done with brass and copper chisels — or better yet, pounding stones.
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https://precision-marble.com/can-you-cut-granite-with-copper/

I've been to the quarries and seen the tool marks, have you?
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:10:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


https://precision-marble.com/can-you-cut-granite-with-copper/

I've been to the quarries and seen the tool marks, have you?
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I am more referring to the really impressive stuff. So you believe those granite (and harder stone) vases with narrow necks were made with copper/brass chisels? When the tolerances in deviation of its construction is measured in thousandths of an inch? I do not claim to know how this was done, but it’s a hell of a reach to say that was done with copper/brass chisels.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:17:38 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That was a brutal slog.   I even took a restless nap leaving it playing in the backround. (Very much, Not recommended).    

Smarmy millennial Jones, has one main contention:  He has found no Seeds demonstrating the use of domesticated crops prior to 12600 years ago.   (Therefore Graham’s lost civilization could not have existed)

Also, Hipster Jones and associates, tried to cancel Graham off Netflix, by calling him Racist, Misogynistic, White Supremest, Anti-Semetic etc.  
but his Tiny Hands were the most disturbing part.   Why was he covering his wrists like that?     It almost makes me want to join his twitter and ask him.    .   Alien or Birth Defect: You decide.  
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He is unemployable being a huge dbag i had never heard of before.
Therefore as someone with no real income, he has to buy all his clothes from a second hand shop, and they used to belong to some dead guy.  So he had no good clothes but moth eaten and patchouli stained tshirts for his big podcast appearance,
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:24:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feetpiece] [#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaGoose:


He mentioned in a posting that he was fighting cancer again, so may have had a large weight loss during treatment
.
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So he lost his sense of style and humility to chemo but not his hair?

Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:28:17 PM EDT
[#23]
The og shovelbum in me is having a good chuckle so far. And I haven't even started to listen to the podcast.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:40:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:

I am more referring to the really impressive stuff. So you believe those granite (and harder stone) vases with narrow necks were made with copper/brass chisels? When the tolerances in deviation of its construction is measured in thousandths of an inch? I do not claim to know how this was done, but it’s a hell of a reach to say that was done with copper/brass chisels.
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Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art.  We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them.

Now can we leave behind the whataboutism?  Google can answer these questions for you too.  A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 7:54:30 PM EDT
[#25]
I've listened to the entire thing today while working. Flint is a little bitch. Graham didn't win any argument imho, but the Flint laughing constantly, and then pulling the racism, and all the other ism's, is a total cuck move
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:01:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:




Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art.  We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them.

Now can we leave behind the whataboutism?  Google can answer these questions for you too.  A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation.
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Do you feel that the carved stones were transported via reed boats and canals?
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:16:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Finished it last night. While I dislike the funny hat kid because of his woke bullshit he completely dismantled almost all of Graham's arguments and made a very good evidence based case for there not being a large advanced ice age civilization that was wiped out.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:19:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:




Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art.  We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them.

Now can we leave behind the whataboutism?  Google can answer these questions for you too.  A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation.
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It’s all speculation. Nobody knows 100%. The ancient Egyptians very well could have set up shop and started inhabiting the area where some of that already existed. When you consider that most of the megalithic and super impressive stuff is affiliated with the old kingdom and somehow gets progressively worse as time goes on, it kind of looks as if they did stumble upon a lot it.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:19:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GWION:
Do you feel that the carved stones were transported via reed boats and canals?
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Not reed, probably wood, but yes by the river and canals during the flooding season.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:24:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
Finished it last night. While I dislike the funny hat kid because of his woke bullshit he completely dismantled almost all of Graham's arguments and made a very good evidence based case for there not being a large advanced ice age civilization that was wiped out.
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Link Posted: 4/18/2024 8:41:54 PM EDT
[#31]
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Man I was on team Graham going into this but it really piled up.  

Mountain of evidence that ice age people were all hunter gatherers. At most lived in some large communities taking advantage of very fertile areas .  Allowing a bit of dabling into arts and structure maybe even noticing astrology because food was plenty without farming  vs "but you have looked under every stone in every corner of the sea ?". He even had graham somewhat admitting that at best there may have been hunter gatherers that had some astrology knowledge.  Pretty far from his past assumptions and claims.  


Link Posted: 4/18/2024 9:02:17 PM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
Man I was on team Graham going into this but it really piled up.  

Mountain of evidence that ice age people were all hunter gatherers. At most lived in some large communities taking advantage of very fertile areas .  Allowing a bit of dabling into arts and structure maybe even noticing astrology because food was plenty without farming  vs "but you have looked under every stone in every corner of the sea ?". He even had graham somewhat admitting that at best there may have been hunter gatherers that had some astrology knowledge.  Pretty far from his past assumptions and claims.  


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Hunter gatherer Virgo? Haha
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 9:05:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:

It’s all speculation. Nobody knows 100%. The ancient Egyptians very well could have set up shop and started inhabiting the area where some of that already existed. When you consider that most of the megalithic and super impressive stuff is affiliated with the old kingdom and somehow gets progressively worse as time goes on, it kind of looks as if they did stumble upon a lot it.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved.  The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom.  

Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases?  No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.)  This is his only reference.  He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 9:10:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Glck1911:

The fact that he tried to associate Graham with racists, Nazis, antisemites, white supremacists etc. really shows his character.  Also lends credibility to Graham's point.

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"You used 16th and 19th century sources, which are racist."

Link Posted: 4/18/2024 9:22:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
Man I was on team Graham going into this but it really piled up.  

Mountain of evidence that ice age people were all hunter gatherers. At most lived in some large communities taking advantage of very fertile areas .  Allowing a bit of dabling into arts and structure maybe even noticing astrology because food was plenty without farming  vs "but you have looked under every stone in every corner of the sea ?". He even had graham somewhat admitting that at best there may have been hunter gatherers that had some astrology knowledge.  Pretty far from his past assumptions and claims.  


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The thing is, if Graham was paying attention and caring about getting science right instead of just puffing up his media empire, he would've known all of that.  Is he even interested in archaeology beyond his theories?  His followers sure aren't.
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 9:51:27 PM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By TaskForce:
wtf is flint dibble.
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Also: wtf is “Handcock”
Link Posted: 4/18/2024 10:06:24 PM EDT
[#37]
List of some of the papers that have been shown so far (about 1/3 of the way done going through it again).

Ancient Lowland Maya Complexity as Revealed by Airborne Laser Scanning of Northern Guatemala

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327930789_Ancient_Lowland_Maya_Complexity_as_Revealed_by_Airborne_Laser_Scanning_of_Northern_Guatemala#:~:text=The%20findings%20indicate%20that%20this%20Lowland%20Maya%20society,and%20the%20interactions%20between%20rural%20and%20urban%20communities.


A submerged Stone Age hunting architecture from the Western Baltic Sea

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121


Lead pollution recorded in Greenland ice indicates European emissions tracked plagues, wars, and imperial expansion during antiquity

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1721818115#:~:text=An%201100%20BCE%20to%20800%20CE%20record%20of,events%2C%20including%20imperial%20expansion%2C%20wars%2C%20and%20major%20plagues.


Oxford Shipwreck database

https://oxrep.web.ox.ac.uk/shipwrecks-database


Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881


The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Gobekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A1AA4FB20657599F859860D94CCD090E/S0003598X00047840a.pdf/role_of_cult_and_feasting_in_the_emergence_of_neolithic_communities_new_evidence_from_gobekli_tepe_southeastern_turkey.pdf


Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169486


New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923


High Desert Paleolithic Survey at Abydos, Egypt

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40852525_High_Desert_Paleolithic_Survey_at_Abydos_Egypt


The Cave Paintings of the Cosquer Cave

https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/index.php


Late Glacial rapid climate change and human response in the Westernmost Mediterranean (Iberia and Morocco)

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225049


The Impacts of Geography and Climate Change on Magdalenian Social Networks

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317050627_The_impacts_of_geography_and_climate_change_on_Magdalenian_social_networks


INTERCONNECTED MAGDALENIAN SOCIETIES AS REVEALED BY THE CIRCULATION OF WHALE BONE ARTEFACTS IN THE PYRENEO-CANTABRIAN REGION

https://hal.science/hal-03104414v1/file/QSR_whalebone_HAL.pdf


Link Posted: 4/18/2024 11:04:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: victorgonzales] [#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaGoose:
List of some of the papers that have been shown so far (about 1/3 of the way done going through it again).

Ancient Lowland Maya Complexity as Revealed by Airborne Laser Scanning of Northern Guatemala

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327930789_Ancient_Lowland_Maya_Complexity_as_Revealed_by_Airborne_Laser_Scanning_of_Northern_Guatemala#:~:text=The%20findings%20indicate%20that%20this%20Lowland%20Maya%20society,and%20the%20interactions%20between%20rural%20and%20urban%20communities.


A submerged Stone Age hunting architecture from the Western Baltic Sea

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121


Lead pollution recorded in Greenland ice indicates European emissions tracked plagues, wars, and imperial expansion during antiquity

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1721818115#:~:text=An%201100%20BCE%20to%20800%20CE%20record%20of,events%2C%20including%20imperial%20expansion%2C%20wars%2C%20and%20major%20plagues.


Oxford Shipwreck database

https://oxrep.web.ox.ac.uk/shipwrecks-database


Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881


The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Gobekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A1AA4FB20657599F859860D94CCD090E/S0003598X00047840a.pdf/role_of_cult_and_feasting_in_the_emergence_of_neolithic_communities_new_evidence_from_gobekli_tepe_southeastern_turkey.pdf


Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169486


New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923


High Desert Paleolithic Survey at Abydos, Egypt

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40852525_High_Desert_Paleolithic_Survey_at_Abydos_Egypt


The Cave Paintings of the Cosquer Cave

https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/index.php


Late Glacial rapid climate change and human response in the Westernmost Mediterranean (Iberia and Morocco)

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225049


The Impacts of Geography and Climate Change on Magdalenian Social Networks

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317050627_The_impacts_of_geography_and_climate_change_on_Magdalenian_social_networks


INTERCONNECTED MAGDALENIAN SOCIETIES AS REVEALED BY THE CIRCULATION OF WHALE BONE ARTEFACTS IN THE PYRENEO-CANTABRIAN REGION

https://hal.science/hal-03104414v1/file/QSR_whalebone_HAL.pdf


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You know what's disappointing is how poorly google works nowdays.  I haven't researched all this because I don't care that much but always found Graham's theory fun and interesting.  Never really bought the idea that a technology society would have existed that near without evidence but maybe some kind of big primitive farming society.

I briefly googled things here and there and mostly found dumb media articles and just went about my day.   I remember in it's early days just googling something like ice age man kind or ore history or something would bring up lists of real documents like that rather than media stories .    
I'm hoping AI will fix that if there remains a non programmed AI option. Where if you want to learn something the AI will be able to local real and specific information lists like that.

I think google is actually making people dumber because they believe media stories are evidence and that's all you can easily find in most search engines
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 12:32:16 PM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By wombat25:
I'm the last person to side with academic institutions and the prevailing narrative on almost any subject these days, but I have to admit, Flint may have ended Graham's career with this debate.

Graham constantly acts like compelling evidence for his theories is right in front of our eyes, but when asked for it by someone in his field, there's nothing except 'well, it hasn't been found yet because someone hasn't discovered it yet.' 'Oh, and here's some photos of underwater rocks my wife and I took.'

Sorry, no. By this measure, he might as well lay claim to mermaids or sea monsters. After all, we haven't explored the entire ocean, right? Someone might still find them. Any day now, guys.  

Then he claims that mainstream archeologists are mean to him. Boo hoo. Produce some actual evidence and they might ease up.

Granted, Flint did absolutely try to associate Graham with racists, and then denied he did so, but it still doesn't change the fact that Graham was given every opportunity in four-plus hours to produce some real evidence to a sort-of colleague and came with nothing even remotely interesting, much less compelling.
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Nope.....Flint is a know it all
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 12:33:38 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.
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Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Originally Posted By bobsters06:
Originally Posted By midcap:

...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line.


I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards.  If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives.

Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up.

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.



Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 1:00:04 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By midcap:



Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff.
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Originally Posted By midcap:
Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Originally Posted By bobsters06:
Originally Posted By midcap:

...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line.


I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards.  If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives.

Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up.

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.



Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff.

Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities.  But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization.  He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology.  Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 1:07:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brownbomber] [#42]
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
You know what's disappointing is how poorly google works nowdays.  I haven't researched all this because I don't care that much but always found Graham's theory fun and interesting.  Never really bought the idea that a technology society would have existed that near without evidence but maybe some kind of big primitive farming society.

I briefly googled things here and there and mostly found dumb media articles and just went about my day.   I remember in it's early days just googling something like ice age man kind or ore history or something would bring up lists of real documents like that rather than media stories .    
I'm hoping AI will fix that if there remains a non programmed AI option. Where if you want to learn something the AI will be able to local real and specific information lists like that.

I think google is actually making people dumber because they believe media stories are evidence and that's all you can easily find in most search engines
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
Originally Posted By DaGoose:
List of some of the papers that have been shown so far (about 1/3 of the way done going through it again).

Ancient Lowland Maya Complexity as Revealed by Airborne Laser Scanning of Northern Guatemala

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327930789_Ancient_Lowland_Maya_Complexity_as_Revealed_by_Airborne_Laser_Scanning_of_Northern_Guatemala#:~:text=The%20findings%20indicate%20that%20this%20Lowland%20Maya%20society,and%20the%20interactions%20between%20rural%20and%20urban%20communities.


A submerged Stone Age hunting architecture from the Western Baltic Sea

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121


Lead pollution recorded in Greenland ice indicates European emissions tracked plagues, wars, and imperial expansion during antiquity

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1721818115#:~:text=An%201100%20BCE%20to%20800%20CE%20record%20of,events%2C%20including%20imperial%20expansion%2C%20wars%2C%20and%20major%20plagues.


Oxford Shipwreck database

https://oxrep.web.ox.ac.uk/shipwrecks-database


Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881


The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Gobekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A1AA4FB20657599F859860D94CCD090E/S0003598X00047840a.pdf/role_of_cult_and_feasting_in_the_emergence_of_neolithic_communities_new_evidence_from_gobekli_tepe_southeastern_turkey.pdf


Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169486


New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923


High Desert Paleolithic Survey at Abydos, Egypt

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40852525_High_Desert_Paleolithic_Survey_at_Abydos_Egypt


The Cave Paintings of the Cosquer Cave

https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/index.php


Late Glacial rapid climate change and human response in the Westernmost Mediterranean (Iberia and Morocco)

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225049


The Impacts of Geography and Climate Change on Magdalenian Social Networks

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317050627_The_impacts_of_geography_and_climate_change_on_Magdalenian_social_networks


INTERCONNECTED MAGDALENIAN SOCIETIES AS REVEALED BY THE CIRCULATION OF WHALE BONE ARTEFACTS IN THE PYRENEO-CANTABRIAN REGION

https://hal.science/hal-03104414v1/file/QSR_whalebone_HAL.pdf


You know what's disappointing is how poorly google works nowdays.  I haven't researched all this because I don't care that much but always found Graham's theory fun and interesting.  Never really bought the idea that a technology society would have existed that near without evidence but maybe some kind of big primitive farming society.

I briefly googled things here and there and mostly found dumb media articles and just went about my day.   I remember in it's early days just googling something like ice age man kind or ore history or something would bring up lists of real documents like that rather than media stories .    
I'm hoping AI will fix that if there remains a non programmed AI option. Where if you want to learn something the AI will be able to local real and specific information lists like that.

I think google is actually making people dumber because they believe media stories are evidence and that's all you can easily find in most search engines


I haven't used this yet:


https://search.marginalia.nu/search?query=Pkm+machinegun&js=default&adtech=default&searchTitle=default&profile=corpo&recent=default

Ignore the "PKM Machinegun."  That's just something I was going to search when I copied the link.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 1:15:16 PM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By NotJackMiller:

Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities.  But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization.  He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology.  Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking.
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Originally Posted By NotJackMiller:
Originally Posted By midcap:
Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Originally Posted By bobsters06:
Originally Posted By midcap:

...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line.


I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards.  If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives.

Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up.

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.



Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff.

Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities.  But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization.  He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology.  Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking.



that's what I am talking about....you are correct. Hancock says things that are plausible.

We need to remember that prior to the 1990s....majority of scientist said there were no exoplanets and any one who thought so were foolish.

TESS shut that debate down...we have a shit load of exoplanets in the universe.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 1:25:34 PM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved.  The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom.  

Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases?  No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.)  This is his only reference.  He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement.  
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Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let’s say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them.

Problem is, there were 10’s of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn’t make any sense.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 3:45:18 PM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By midcap:



that's what I am talking about....you are correct. Hancock says things that are plausible.

We need to remember that prior to the 1990s....majority of scientist said there were no exoplanets and any one who thought so were foolish.

TESS shut that debate down...we have a shit load of exoplanets in the universe.
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Originally Posted By midcap:
Originally Posted By NotJackMiller:
Originally Posted By midcap:
Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Originally Posted By bobsters06:
Originally Posted By midcap:

...Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line.


I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards.  If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives.

Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up.

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.



Yeah people keep trying to out that on graham, thats more Randal Carlson that get's all caught up in weird vibrations stuff.

Graham did come out and say that he believes in some kind of psionic or extradimensional human capabilities.  But he's never tried to assert that it is related to a lost civilization.  He's clearly said that they were "relatively advanced" but definitely did not have what we would consider modern technology.  Putting a few things together, he seems to say that they had advanced astronomical knowledge, but nothing like computers or space travel or probably any kind of steam engine or large scale metalworking.



that's what I am talking about....you are correct. Hancock says things that are plausible.

We need to remember that prior to the 1990s....majority of scientist said there were no exoplanets and any one who thought so were foolish.

TESS shut that debate down...we have a shit load of exoplanets in the universe.

So what you're saying is that NASA created vast numbers of exoplanets and at the documented rate of discovery, the universe will fill with them in about twenty years.
Link Posted: 4/19/2024 6:12:21 PM EDT
[#46]
List of all of the papers that I could find copies of online.  May have missed some, but should be 55 papers listed.



Ancient Lowland Maya Complexity as Revealed by Airborne Laser Scanning of Northern Guatemala

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327930789_Ancient_Lowland_Maya_Complexity_as_Revealed_by_Airborne_Laser_Scanning_of_Northern_Guatemala#:~:text=The%20findings%20indicate%20that%20this%20Lowland%20Maya%20society,and%20the%20interactions%20between%20rural%20and%20urban%20communities.


A submerged Stone Age hunting architecture from the Western Baltic Sea

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2312008121


Lead pollution recorded in Greenland ice indicates European emissions tracked plagues, wars, and imperial expansion during antiquity

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1721818115#:~:text=An%201100%20BCE%20to%20800%20CE%20record%20of,events%2C%20including%20imperial%20expansion%2C%20wars%2C%20and%20major%20plagues.


Oxford Shipwreck database

https://oxrep.web.ox.ac.uk/shipwrecks-database


Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881


The role of cult and feasting in the emergence of Neolithic communities. New evidence from Gobekli Tepe, south-eastern Turkey

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A1AA4FB20657599F859860D94CCD090E/S0003598X00047840a.pdf/role_of_cult_and_feasting_in_the_emergence_of_neolithic_communities_new_evidence_from_gobekli_tepe_southeastern_turkey.pdf


Earliest Human Presence in North America Dated to the Last Glacial Maximum: New Radiocarbon Dates from Bluefish Caves, Canada

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0169486


New Archaeological Evidence for an Early Human Presence at Monte Verde, Chile

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141923


High Desert Paleolithic Survey at Abydos, Egypt

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40852525_High_Desert_Paleolithic_Survey_at_Abydos_Egypt


The Cave Paintings of the Cosquer Cave

https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/index.php


Late Glacial rapid climate change and human response in the Westernmost Mediterranean (Iberia and Morocco)

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225049


The Impacts of Geography and Climate Change on Magdalenian Social Networks

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317050627_The_impacts_of_geography_and_climate_change_on_Magdalenian_social_networks


INTERCONNECTED MAGDALENIAN SOCIETIES AS REVEALED BY THE CIRCULATION OF WHALE BONE ARTEFACTS IN THE PYRENEO-CANTABRIAN REGION

https://hal.science/hal-03104414v1/file/QSR_whalebone_HAL.pdf


Stone Age Seafaring in the Mediterranean: Evidence from the Plakias Region for Lower Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Habitation of Crete

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234397510_Stone_Age_Seafaring_in_the_Mediterranean_Evidence_from_the_Plakias_Region_for_Lower_Palaeolithic_and_Mesolithic_Habitation_of_Crete


The Paleoindian Database of the Americas

https://pidba.utk.edu/


The Kelp Highway Hypothesis: Marine Ecology, the Coastal Migration Theory, and the Peopling of the Americas

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230777837_The_Kelp_Highway_Hypothesis_Marine_Ecology_the_Coastal_Migration_Theory_and_the_Peopling_of_the_Americas


Late Pleistocene and early Holocene sea-level history and glacial retreat interpreted from shell-bearing marine deposits of southeastern Alaska, USA

https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geosphere/article/17/6/1590/609513/Late-Pleistocene-and-early-Holocene-sea-level


A post-glacial sea level hinge on the central Pacific coast of Canada

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379114002042


Terminal Pleistocene epoch human footprints from the Pacific coast of Canada

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0193522


Coastal occupation and foraging during the last glacial maximum and early Holocene at Waterfall Bluff, eastern Pondoland, South Africa

https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10272928


Socioeconomic roles of Holocene marine shell beads reveal the daily life of composite objects from East Kalimantan, Borneo

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440323001206


Monte Verde: Seaweed, Food, Medicine, and the Peopling of South America

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5383160_Monte_Verde_Seaweed_Food_Medicine_and_the_Peopling_of_South_America/link/547c4cc10cf293e2da2da63d/download?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIn19


Underwater Shell Middens: Excavation and Remote Sensing of a Submerged Mesolithic site at Hjarnø, Denmark

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15564894.2019.1584135


Shipwreck ecology: Understanding the function and processes from microbes to megafauna

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/74/1/12/7479881


RETRACTED: Geo-archaeological prospecting of Gunung Padang buried prehistoric pyramid in West Java, Indonesia

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/arp.1912


Comprehensive refutation of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825223001915


The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis: A requiem

https://cosmictusk.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Younger-Dryas-impact-hypothesis-A-requiem.pdf


Premature rejection in science: The case of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10450282/#:~:text=The%20reaction%20to%20the%20Younger%20Dryas%20Impact%20Hypothesis,examples%20of%20%E2%80%9Cpathological%20science%E2%80%9D%20and%20wrote%20its%20%E2%80%9Crequiem.%E2%80%9D


Palaeolithic extinctions and the Taurid Complex

https://cosmictusk.com/wp-content/uploads/Paleolithic-extinctions-and-the-Taurid-complex.pdf


Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 years ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions and the Younger Dryas cooling

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0706977104


Shock-synthesized hexagonal diamonds in Younger Dryas boundary sediments

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0906374106


Very high-temperature impact melt products as evidence for cosmic airbursts and impacts 12,900 years ago

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1204453109


Evidence from central Mexico supporting the Younger Dryas extraterrestrial impact hypothesis

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1110614109


Large Pt anomaly in the Greenland ice core points to a cataclysm at the onset of Younger Dryas

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1303924110


Evidence for deposition of 10 million tonnes of impact spherules across four continents 12,800 y ago

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1301760110


Nanodiamond-Rich Layer across Three Continents Consistent with Major Cosmic Impact at 12,800 Cal BP

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268390328_Nanodiamond-Rich_Layer_Across_Three_Continents_Consistent_with_Major_Cosmic_Impact_at_12800_Cal_BP


Bayesian chronological analyses consistent with synchronous age of 12,835–12,735 Cal B.P. for Younger Dryas boundary on four continents

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1507146112


Extraordinary Biomass-Burning Episode and Impact Winter Triggered by the Younger Dryas Cosmic Impact ∼12,800 Years Ago. 1. Ice Cores and Glaciers

https://cosmictusk.com/wp-content/uploads/Wolbach-2018-Fire-Part-1-MS-4.pdf


Did the Black-Mat Impact/Airburst Reach the Antarctic? Evidence from New Mountain Near the Taylor Glacier in the Dry Valley Mountains

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323785432_Did_the_Black-Mat_ImpactAirburst_Reach_the_Antarctic_Evidence_from_New_Mountain_Near_the_Taylor_Glacier_in_the_Dry_Valley_Mountains


Widespread glasses generated by cometary fireballs during the late Pleistocene in the Atacama Desert, Chile

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355860503_Widespread_glasses_generated_by_cometary_fireballs_during_the_late_Pleistocene_in_the_Atacama_Desert_Chile


Widespread glasses generated by cometary fireballs during the Pleistocene in the Atacama Desert, Chile

https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geology/article/50/2/205/609354/Widespread-glasses-generated-by-cometary-fireballs


Widespread platinum anomaly documented at the Younger Dryas onset in North American sedimentary sequences

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep44031


Evidence of Cosmic Impact at Abu Hureyra, Syria at the Younger Dryas Onset (~12.8 ka): High-temperature melting at >2200°C

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7060197/#:~:text=The%20wide%20range%20of%20evidence%20supports%20the%20hypothesis,platinum%20at%20other%20YDB%20sites%20on%20four%20continents.


Genetic Diversity, Evolution and Domestication of Wheat and Barley in the Fertile Crescent

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257614000_Genetic_Diversity_Evolution_and_Domestication_of_Wheat_and_Barley_in_the_Fertile_Crescent


Transition From Wild to Domesticated Pearl Millet (Pennisetum glaucum) Revealed in Ceramic Temper at Three Middle Holocene Sites in Northern Mali

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8550313/


Sizing up cereal variation: patterns in grain evolution revealed in chronological and geographical comparisons

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320272925_Sizing_up_cereal_variation_patterns_in_grain_evolution_revealed_in_chronological_and_geographical_comparisons


Narrowing the harvest: Increasing sickle investment and the rise of domesticated cereal agriculture in the Fertile Crescent

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379116301780?via%3Dihub


New Light on the Early Neolithic in Albania the Southern Albania: the southern Albania Neolithic archaeological project (SANAP), 2006-2013

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/295908459_New_Light_on_the_Early_Neolithic_in_Albania_the_Southern_Albania_the_southern_Albania_Neolithic_archaeological_project_SANAP_2006-2013


Current perspectives and the future of domestication studies

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1323964111


The socio-environmental history of the Peloponnese during the Holocene: Towards an integrated understanding of the past

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379115301633


Multi-proxy palaeoecological approaches to submerged landscapes: A case study from ‘Doggerland’, in the southern North Sea

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320035671_Multi-proxy_palaeoecological_approaches_to_submerged_landscapes_a_case_study_from_'Doggerland'_in_the_southern_North_Sea


Was Agriculture Impossible during the Pleistocene but Mandatory during the Holocene? A Climate Change Hypothesis

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/200033448_Was_Agriculture_Impossible_during_the_Pleistocene_but_Mandatory_during_the_Holocene_A_Climate_Change_Hypothesis


RADIOCARBON DATES OF OLD AND MIDDLE KINGDOM MONUMENTS IN EGYPT

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/viewFile/3874/3299


The Stones of the Pyramids: Provenance of the Building Stones of the Old Kingdom Pyramids of Egypt

https://gizamedia.rc.fas.harvard.edu/documents/klemm-klemm_stones_gizeh.pdf


Socioenvironmental change as a process: Changing foodways as adaptation to climate change in South Greece from the Late Bronze Age to the Early Iron Age

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kAV59b6r46Ilsl8wBJfzXsRUitySmvmA/view
Link Posted: 4/20/2024 11:03:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: victorgonzales] [#48]
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:


Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let's say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them.

Problem is, there were 10's of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn't make any sense.
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Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved.  The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom.  

Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases?  No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.)  This is his only reference.  He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement.  


Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let's say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them.

Problem is, there were 10's of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn't make any sense.
It kinda does though.  I believe we have lost a lot of hand working techniques from dead societies.  Humans are smart.  A technique could have been invented and a few hundred people who learned it over a generation or two could have made their entire living cranking out this amazing object or building technique 12 hours a day creating hundreds or thousands of them until a better or more practical item or method took over.   With stone works many of those items will survive.    We think omg they must have had a machine.  No way they could make a thousand of these without it. When in truth over a hundred years a hundred people making them all day every day could easily do that.  They had nothing better to do with their time if their society thrived with agriculture.   Much like today having special skills probably made primitive people wealthier in their society.   They could trade their works for whatever they want. So there's motivation to make amazing things and learn techniques.  

Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years.  It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things .
Link Posted: 4/20/2024 11:48:49 AM EDT
[#49]
I don't know if I will get around to listening to this. The main reason I enjoy listening to and watching Graham is because it's clear that he loves his work so much and he covers interesting things that aren't well known. The other reason is that I absolutely believe that the current system is corrupt because we see it in so many things. The system doesn't like to be challenged and I seem to find myself rooting for the underdog. Academia is corrupt just like politics. They don't like being challenged and embarrassed because it threatens their ability to control the narrative and keep their system in place.

It seems like there are constantly discoveries that challenge mainstream ideas about when and where people were and what they were capable of. I just wish that all institutions were really about spreading knowledge for everyone.
Link Posted: 4/20/2024 12:02:12 PM EDT
[#50]
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
It kinda does though.  I believe we have lost a lot of hand working techniques from dead societies.  Humans are smart.  A technique could have been invented and a few hundred people who learned it over a generation or two could have made their entire living cranking out this amazing object or building technique 12 hours a day creating hundreds or thousands of them until a better or more practical item or method took over.   With stone works many of those items will survive.    We think omg they must have had a machine.  No way they could make a thousand of these without it. When in truth over a hundred years a hundred people making them all day every day could easily do that.  They had nothing better to do with their time if their society thrived with agriculture.   Much like today having special skills probably made primitive people wealthier in their society.   They could trade their works for whatever they want. So there's motivation to make amazing things and learn techniques.  

Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years.  It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things .
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
Originally Posted By Anonymoose1:
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

Take a look at the lists of stones quarried and stones moved.  The unfinished obelisk, Ramses statue, and colossi of "memnon" were all new kingdom.  

Why no more nearly perfect diorite vases?  No idea, but I'll offer this.. In 2000 years, let's say a researcher unearths a spotless 1953 Bel Air, then he digs up k-car after k-car after k-car, and then piles of 90's civics (some still running, can't kill them.)  This is his only reference.  He's not going to look at that record and necessarily see improvement.  


Those vases are seriously perplexing. Let's say for a second that a person can create one of those nearly perfect vases using their hands and copper chisels and pounding rocks, that would be one hell of a special individual and it would take forever to complete one of them.

Problem is, there were 10's of thousands of them apparently. I just cannot see a situation where you have that many people capable or the time to pull that off. Then there is the fact that why would you expend that kind of time/labor to create vases/bowls made out of the hardest stone on earth for that purpose? It doesn't make any sense.
It kinda does though.  I believe we have lost a lot of hand working techniques from dead societies.  Humans are smart.  A technique could have been invented and a few hundred people who learned it over a generation or two could have made their entire living cranking out this amazing object or building technique 12 hours a day creating hundreds or thousands of them until a better or more practical item or method took over.   With stone works many of those items will survive.    We think omg they must have had a machine.  No way they could make a thousand of these without it. When in truth over a hundred years a hundred people making them all day every day could easily do that.  They had nothing better to do with their time if their society thrived with agriculture.   Much like today having special skills probably made primitive people wealthier in their society.   They could trade their works for whatever they want. So there's motivation to make amazing things and learn techniques.  

Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years.  It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things .


that's absolutely true....where I grew up trawl nets and all nets were made by hand, everyone who fished knew how to make a net. had to if your net tore out in the marsh you had to fix it out there.

Now...I know maybe 5 people total that can make a net and they aren't teaching anyone new. In 50 years. There will be no more net makers where I grew up
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