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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:03:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Started it today, I'm an hour and a half in. Graham is not geared towards a debate format.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:12:50 PM EDT
[#2]
My wife and I play a drinking game where whenever we watch a Graham Hancock video we take a swig whenever the word “Cataclysm/ic” is said
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:17:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Anonymoose1: Just how much evidence do you think is going to be left after 10k+ years and a world-resetting catastrophe? If that happened, and I believe it did, pretty much the only thing that is going to be left is megalithic stone structures — which cannot be carbon dated. I am of the mind that the megalithic work was done for that exact purpose, because the resetting of earth happened before and whomever built them wanted them to withstand the next one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Anonymoose1: Originally Posted By WinstonSmith: Graham's schtick has always been to posit ridiculous concepts without evidence and then cry oppression when anyone asks him to back anything up. It's tiresome, and I can't understand why some find it so compelling. Just how much evidence do you think is going to be left after 10k+ years and a world-resetting catastrophe? If that happened, and I believe it did, pretty much the only thing that is going to be left is megalithic stone structures — which cannot be carbon dated. I am of the mind that the megalithic work was done for that exact purpose, because the resetting of earth happened before and whomever built them wanted them to withstand the next one. Since you say there's no evidence, on what is this belief based? Simple faith? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Anonymoose1: It’s all speculation. Nobody knows 100%. Speculation with supporting evidence is not the same as speculation without any. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:24:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wizzy]
[#5]
I'm on team cataclysm, but Flintstone Dribble smoked Graham in this debate. Graham came off as whiny, lacking evidence, and butthurt.
His first mistake was starting off with Yonaguni. If it's manmade, it was carved by an absolute crackhead suffering from ADHD. Like, what the fuck is it supposed to be? A stone carving school's practice area?  Attached FilePick your battles, Graham. He could have came out swinging with the Sphinx or Gobekli Tepe. He also spent too much time on his "presentation" about Dribble calling him racist. He could have easily won that round, and instead it was almost a draw because Graham came off so fucking whiny. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:45:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wizzy]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @WinstonSmith :  Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art. We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them. Now can we leave behind the whataboutism? Google can answer these questions for you too. A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @WinstonSmith : Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art. We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them. Now can we leave behind the whataboutism? Google can answer these questions for you too. A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation. Originally Posted By @victorgonzales : It kinda does though. I believe we have lost a lot of hand working techniques from dead societies. Humans are smart. A technique could have been invented and a few hundred people who learned it over a generation or two could have made their entire living cranking out this amazing object or building technique 12 hours a day creating hundreds or thousands of them until a better or more practical item or method took over. With stone works many of those items will survive. We think omg they must have had a machine. No way they could make a thousand of these without it. When in truth over a hundred years a hundred people making them all day every day could easily do that. They had nothing better to do with their time if their society thrived with agriculture. Much like today having special skills probably made primitive people wealthier in their society. They could trade their works for whatever they want. So there's motivation to make amazing things and learn techniques. Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years. It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things . I don't think y'all realize exactly how precise some of those vases are. Some are precise to within a thousandth of an inch (human hair is one thousandth of an inch). Not just talking about the roundness, but also the thickness of the walls, and the distance of the handle lugs from center. And in rose quartz granite. That means it can't even be scratched by steel (much less copper, lol). And they found 40,000 of these under one of the pyramids. Not only that, the dimensions of at least one analyzed vase had interesting proportions. The outside diameter of the vase lip is the radius of the opening times pi, and the diameter of the neck is the opening radius times the golden ratio squared. And everything is sized to within thousandths of an inch, including the thin vase walls. Make this shit with a copper chisel and I'll buy everyone in this thread lifetime memberships.  Attached File Astonishing Results! More Ancient Egyptian Granite Vases Analyzed! More STL's available. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 4:50:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Graham needed a lot more published papers if he was going to combat what Dibble had. Think he had 3-4 out of the list that I posted earlier.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:16:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Post interview with Dibble.
 Flint Dibble's Experience On The JRE With Graham Hancock & Joe Rogan |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 3:12:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: I don't think y'all realize exactly how precise some of those vases are. Some are precise to within a thousandth of an inch (human hair is one thousandth of an inch). Not just talking about the roundness, but also the thickness of the walls, and the distance of the handle lugs from center. And in rose quartz granite. That means it can't even be scratched by steel (much less copper, lol). And they found 40,000 of these under one of the pyramids. Not only that, the dimensions of at least one analyzed vase had interesting proportions. The outside diameter of the vase lip is the radius of the opening times pi, and the diameter of the neck is the opening radius times the golden ratio squared. And everything is sized to within thousandths of an inch, including the thin vase walls. Make this shit with a copper chisel and I'll buy everyone in this thread lifetime memberships. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/579267/Screen_Shot_2024-04-26_at_15_40_16_png-3198611.JPG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzFMDS6dkWUNot to mention the insides of these vases. How does one get a "hammer and chisel or pounding stone" inside the vase to carve the inside. Some of these vases have neck openings smaller then a human hand and wall thickness the same as an egg shell made out of a very hard and brittle stone. They are absolute proof of some sort of advanced technology that was since forgotten. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 9:29:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Picking back up this morning. Based on the thread I was expecting a different experience but man this is brutal.
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Posted: 4/27/2024 11:43:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: They are absolute proof of some sort of advanced technology that was since forgotten. Nah. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 12:25:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Finished it. Graham should probably never do that again.
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Posted: 4/27/2024 1:22:49 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm a fan of Graham (and Randall's) theories. I came into this excited. I was looking forward to hearing evidence. Then about the middle 1/3 of the show devolved into Graham going on a "people are persecuting me!" bitch fest. Not going to lie, at that point I was liking the other guy much better. I was going to shut it off, but I had invested too much time at that point.
Graham may be on to something, and may have evidence to back it up, but he gets WAY too bent over "muh feelings". And I fucking HATE when people get loud and interrupt others. I'd like to see someone with better conflict resolution skills debate his point. Graham is only tolerable to listen to when he's with like-minded folks. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2024 2:59:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Finished it. Graham should probably never do that again. Yeah, he does well with Randall but solo he can't articulate the science. |
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Posted: 4/27/2024 4:29:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Diorite vase: 2 years of blood, sweat and hate | Experiment results
 Diorite vase: 2 years of blood, sweat and hate | Experiment results |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:34:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Dibble's follow up.
 More thoughts on a Lost Civilization |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:41:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheWhiteHorse]
[#17]
That has to be one of the worst Rogan episodes I’ve ever watched. I’ll be sure to never invest another second of my time into anything Graham Hancock.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 8:54:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheWhiteHorse: That has to be one of the worst Rogan episodes I’ve ever watched. I thought it was pretty enlightening. The Graham Hancock Randall Carlson stuff is fun to listen to and think what if. But this episode made it pretty obvious Graham's ideas do not stand up to challenge. His main argument seemed to be archeologists aren't doing enough and looking in the right places. He bitches that they need to do the heavy lifting and do the actual leg work, he can't be bothered with that. When they do look in the right places, as in the case of bimini road, then he's not happy with the conclusion they come to. Listening to Randall on Sean Ryan he seems to be hooked up with the "I've got a car that runs on water but the government doesn't want you to know!" guys now. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:25:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: I don't think y'all realize exactly how precise some of those vases are. Some are precise to within a thousandth of an inch (human hair is one thousandth of an inch). Not just talking about the roundness, but also the thickness of the walls, and the distance of the handle lugs from center. And in rose quartz granite. That means it can't even be scratched by steel (much less copper, lol). And they found 40,000 of these under one of the pyramids. Not only that, the dimensions of at least one analyzed vase had interesting proportions. The outside diameter of the vase lip is the radius of the opening times pi, and the diameter of the neck is the opening radius times the golden ratio squared. And everything is sized to within thousandths of an inch, including the thin vase walls. Make this shit with a copper chisel and I'll buy everyone in this thread lifetime memberships. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/579267/Screen_Shot_2024-04-26_at_15_40_16_png-3198611.JPG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzFMDS6dkWUQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizzy: Originally Posted By @WinstonSmith : Yes, I believe those vases were probably cut rough with arsenical copper tools and then sanded/polished to shape. There are cruder Naqqadan examples of them made before those entombed with Djoser (the most famous ones), that show the growth and development of the art. We have some examples of their tools, cores from the tube drills they used, and artistic depictions of the craftsmen working on them. Now can we leave behind the whataboutism? Google can answer these questions for you too. A lot of the "it's impossible for them to have.." is uninformed or misinformed speculation. Originally Posted By @victorgonzales : It kinda does though. I believe we have lost a lot of hand working techniques from dead societies. Humans are smart. A technique could have been invented and a few hundred people who learned it over a generation or two could have made their entire living cranking out this amazing object or building technique 12 hours a day creating hundreds or thousands of them until a better or more practical item or method took over. With stone works many of those items will survive. We think omg they must have had a machine. No way they could make a thousand of these without it. When in truth over a hundred years a hundred people making them all day every day could easily do that. They had nothing better to do with their time if their society thrived with agriculture. Much like today having special skills probably made primitive people wealthier in their society. They could trade their works for whatever they want. So there's motivation to make amazing things and learn techniques. Look at what modern society created over the last 50 years. It's not unreasonable that over a thousand years of stone workers there'd be a handful doing amazing things . I don't think y'all realize exactly how precise some of those vases are. Some are precise to within a thousandth of an inch (human hair is one thousandth of an inch). Not just talking about the roundness, but also the thickness of the walls, and the distance of the handle lugs from center. And in rose quartz granite. That means it can't even be scratched by steel (much less copper, lol). And they found 40,000 of these under one of the pyramids. Not only that, the dimensions of at least one analyzed vase had interesting proportions. The outside diameter of the vase lip is the radius of the opening times pi, and the diameter of the neck is the opening radius times the golden ratio squared. And everything is sized to within thousandths of an inch, including the thin vase walls. Make this shit with a copper chisel and I'll buy everyone in this thread lifetime memberships. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/579267/Screen_Shot_2024-04-26_at_15_40_16_png-3198611.JPG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzFMDS6dkWU@Wizzy Think this is a reply to the video that you posted above.  Dudes Think They Can Prove Atlantis by Measuring a Vase |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 6:28:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Another follow up from Dibble.
 Flint Dibble SPEAKS Following Joe Rogan Experience Debate with Graham Hancock! - WB 29th April 2024 |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 11:34:53 AM EDT
[#21]
How Joe Rogan Was Fooled by Graham Hancock
 How Joe Rogan Was Fooled by Graham Hancock CONTENTS 0:00 Introduction 06:24 Presenting Archaeology as Elitist and Arrogant 53:10 Disseminating Misinformation about Archaeology 1:33:37 A Metaphysical Approach to Science 1:53:54 Closing Thoughts |
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Posted: Yesterday 12:43:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Good discussion around the whole debate from a channel/guy that puts out a lot of really good videos.
 How academics can talk to pseudoarchaeology fans 0:00 Intro 1:18 Why call it pseudoarchaeology? 5:17 Assume good faith 10:18 Be patient if you've heard the claim before 13:29 Marvel together 17:01 Academia 24:08 It's about the evidence 30:00 Academics on YouTube |
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Posted: Yesterday 12:51:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glck1911: Been watching. Honestly, both are showing their ass. Graham's entire point is that it's POSSIBLE that a civilization existed and that Archeologists aren't open to any ideas that didn't come from them. However he is just using this interview to assassinate the other guy's credibility. Really lacking in the evidentiary department. Diet Indiana is a world class D Bag. Smirky and condescending. His arguments boil down to "That can't be possible because we say it can't" or "That's not what that is because we haven't identified it as such". Yeah, that's kind of the other guy's entire point. He seems to be a stereotypical "I have it all figured out because of my education" Academic type. The fact that he tried to associate Graham with racists, Nazis, antisemites, white supremacists etc. really shows his character. Also lends credibility to Graham's point. On a scale of "fuck that guy" to "I'd hang out with him", Graham is winning big time. Flint may be on of the most unlikeable people I've ever listened to. Neither are very convincing of their sides of the argument. ETA: What is up with Flint's hands? He looks like the guy from the Burger King commercials. I watched the whole thing a week ago or so. Pretty good summary. I think both have valid points - Archeologist guy is really annoying but he is correct in the fact that they tend to draw conclusions based on evidence. No evidence for this lost civilization so they tend to believe it didn't exist. Graham's counter - you haven't looked enough to rule it out. I think both can be right at the same time. Graham really do use this more to point out the attacks against him and others in non-traditional research of past civilizations. Fair enough but didn't really do anything to expand his case. |
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Posted: Yesterday 12:52:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joemama74]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wc22312: Cringe dork fight. Just unwatchable I think I got about 45 minutes in and just couldn't go any further. The granite vase guy was more interesting. From almost a pure machinist point of view. Evidence of technology we lost somewhere. You have to give that credit or declare it fake. Otherwise you open up a whole can of worms for something else. But I think people are just now coming to the conclusion, what we've put forward as fact for the last 200 years, may not be 100% correct. Same as our understanding of physics, our knowledge is written in crayon. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: Yesterday 12:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cacinok]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glck1911: Been watching. Honestly, both are showing their ass. Graham's entire point is that it's POSSIBLE that a civilization existed and that Archeologists aren't open to any ideas that didn't come from them. However he is just using this interview to assassinate the other guy's credibility. Really lacking in the evidentiary department. Diet Indiana is a world class D Bag. Smirky and condescending. His arguments boil down to "That can't be possible because we say it can't" or "That's not what that is because we haven't identified it as such". Yeah, that's kind of the other guy's entire point. He seems to be a stereotypical "I have it all figured out because of my education" Academic type. The fact that he tried to associate Graham with racists, Nazis, antisemites, white supremacists etc. really shows his character. Also lends credibility to Graham's point. On a scale of "fuck that guy" to "I'd hang out with him", Graham is winning big time. Flint may be on of the most unlikeable people I've ever listened to. Neither are very convincing of their sides of the argument. ETA: What is up with Flint's hands? He looks like the guy from the Burger King commercials. Throughout this podcast, Flint constantly mischaracterized and/or ignored Hancock's statements. ETA: Hancock definitely whines about archaeologists being mean to him. Also, he admits that he doesn't have evidence to support most of his theory. What is frustrating is that Hancock claims that modern archaeology hasn't scratched the surface as far as searching the Amazon, the Sahara, etc., which is true; Dibble keeps saying there's no evidence, which is also true. If Dibble simply stated that currently there is no evidence to support Hancock's theories, but yes there is still a lot of the earth to search and in all likelihood, some current beliefs will likely change w/ new evidence, then this whole podcast would have been 2 hours. |
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USA
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Posted: Yesterday 1:12:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Graham got too uppity for me.
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