User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 4:17:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 4:18:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: A lot of cops would weed out the bad officers, if they could and I've seen them do it when they had the power to do so. Look a guy gets that shaky dealing with a teenage girl, his voice was shaking minutes after the encounter for God's sake, he's probably not confidence inspiring as someone you might have to count on when things really go sideways. I'll say this too, you can train and train a guy, but you can't get them to man-up through training. Either someone has what it takes to handle stress or they don't and no amount of training in the world or mentoring can really change that 99% of the time. I've always been curious about this. Cops are allowed to arrest people for breaking the law. Why cannot a cop arrest another cop for breaking the law? Why do they always say they have to leave that for IA? |
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 4:25:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. So it's okay to follow illegal orders? They have no choice? I'm all for crucifying the council on this one as well, and the DA. They were all okay with what the cop did, and the DA had no problem charging the girl right up until the public got ahold of the actual video. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 5:30:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Imzadi: I've always been curious about this. Cops are allowed to arrest people for breaking the law. Why cannot a cop arrest another cop for breaking the law? Why do they always say they have to leave that for IA? Because that’s the system we’ve created and allowed to remain. They could arrest anyone at any time but they know the consequences. Much like catch and release I don’t blame a lot of it on the cops because they have to operate in the system. It’s like blaming people who enter the country illegally for the bad policy and enforcement that allows them to do it. We need solid overhauls top to bottom but there are so many checks in place to prevent that it’s just about impossible. |
|
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 6:13:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: I've always been curious about this. Cops are allowed to arrest people for breaking the law. Why cannot a cop arrest another cop for breaking the law? Why do they always say they have to leave that for IA? Because they are cowards |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 6:58:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Because that’s the system we’ve created and allowed to remain. They could arrest anyone at any time but they know the consequences. Much like catch and release I don’t blame a lot of it on the cops because they have to operate in the system. It’s like blaming people who enter the country illegally for the bad policy and enforcement that allows them to do it. We need solid overhauls top to bottom but there are so many checks in place to prevent that it’s just about impossible. How did we create the IA system? Is that codified in statues? |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 7:18:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: A lot of cops would weed out the bad officers, if they could and I've seen them do it when they had the power to do so. Look a guy gets that shaky dealing with a teenage girl, his voice was shaking minutes after the encounter for God's sake, he's probably not confidence inspiring as someone you might have to count on when things really go sideways. I'll say this too, you can train and train a guy, but you can't get them to man-up through training. Either someone has what it takes to handle stress or they don't and no amount of training in the world or mentoring can really change that 99% of the time. Thats why I hate how everything is a "training problem". No its not. You can't dump a million dollars into training shit people not to be shit people. Eventually you need to cut loose people that have proven themselves unable to do so such as this guy. But he'll be kept hired by some dept as a "lateral" because hes too valuable as already have been a cop. |
|
|
IA, USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. That UCMJ can really pound you if used to the fullest. Also as an enlisted service member there is no just up and quitting. You signed your ass away, contractually, for however long. That's why I say if your not under the UCMJ, your'e a civilian. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 9:15:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KOOLKEV: That UCMJ can really pound you if used to the fullest. Also as an enlisted service member there is no just up and quitting. You signed your ass away, contractually, for however long. That's why I say if your not under the UCMJ, your'e a civilian. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KOOLKEV: Originally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. That UCMJ can really pound you if used to the fullest. Also as an enlisted service member there is no just up and quitting. You signed your ass away, contractually, for however long. That's why I say if your not under the UCMJ, your'e a civilian. You are absolutely correct. We have a civilian police force. They can quit at any time without recourse. A serviceman tries that and he goes to military prison. Support for the police isn’t aided by actions like the officer in the video took. Police as a whole need to get a handle on the bad actors and ensure they are removed from the force. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 9:59:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. You God Damn right I blame them. From keeping people away from church, enforcing mask mandates, standing by while the cities burned UNLESS a citizen tried to stop the mob from ruining their businesses, homes, and lives. Fuck yeah I blame them. You see, it doesn’t matter if you are told to not do your job, or don’t do your job because you’re a piece of shit by nature. You are still USELESS to me. Extra points when you are being useless on my dime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 10:03:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. There used to be a time when people swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and actually meant it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2024 11:21:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daveo: My dental, my pension.... Lisa needs braces! |
|
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 2:02:47 AM EDT
[#13]
2.1 million views in 2 days! Good stuff @LawyerUp.
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 6:17:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: So it's okay to follow illegal orders? They have no choice? I'm all for crucifying the council on this one as well, and the DA. They were all okay with what the cop did, and the DA had no problem charging the girl right up until the public got ahold of the actual video. I was initially against the county persecutor, but now give him a pass. You know he didn't have the video, just the report written by the crazy dude and the defendant's (lack of) criminal history. And what did he do? He shitcanned the resisting an officer charge and deferred (keep your nose clean for six months and I'll drop it) the speeding ticket and failure to ID. Then when the whole world saw the video, he dropped those too, with a public statement that he can't prosecute those charges based on words of an unreliable arresting officer. What hasn't happened and needs to happen is expunging her arrest record. Isn't even out of high school and now has an arrest record due to zero fault of her own. What a great way to start an adult life. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 8:09:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Nuremberg established that you have the moral and legal responsibility to disobey orders that destroy basic human rights. And believe it or not, you can quit LE when you find it disagreeable and find other gainful employment. |
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 8:21:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: I've always been curious about this. Cops are allowed to arrest people for breaking the law. Why cannot a cop arrest another cop for breaking the law? Why do they always say they have to leave that for IA? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: A lot of cops would weed out the bad officers, if they could and I've seen them do it when they had the power to do so. Look a guy gets that shaky dealing with a teenage girl, his voice was shaking minutes after the encounter for God's sake, he's probably not confidence inspiring as someone you might have to count on when things really go sideways. I'll say this too, you can train and train a guy, but you can't get them to man-up through training. Either someone has what it takes to handle stress or they don't and no amount of training in the world or mentoring can really change that 99% of the time. I've always been curious about this. Cops are allowed to arrest people for breaking the law. Why cannot a cop arrest another cop for breaking the law? Why do they always say they have to leave that for IA? A combination of willful ignorance, cowardice and legit fear. Amazon book review: "The 1960s was a time of social and generational upheaval felt with particular intensity in the melting pot of New York City. A culture of corruption pervaded the New York Police Department, where payoffs, protection, and shakedowns of gambling rackets and drug dealers were common practice. The so-called blue code of silence protected the minority of crooked cops from the sanction of the majority. Into this maelstrom came a working class, Brooklyn-born, Italian cop with long hair, a beard, and a taste for opera and ballet. Frank Serpico was a man who couldn't be silenced—or bought—and he refused to go along with the system. He had sworn an oath to uphold the law, even if the perpetrators happened to be other cops. For this unwavering commitment to justice, Serpico nearly paid with his life." |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 8:34:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. REALLY??? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 8:35:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VACaver: REALLY??? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VACaver: Originally Posted By Imzadi: Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. REALLY??? How do you believe that someone outside of the military is "forced" to follow orders they disagree with? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 8:49:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Cop is fired. Second cop needs to be scrutinized also for his coaching to cover ass. Chief needs to be looked at also for lack of investigation. If it wasn’t for the interwebs the girl would have a hell of a fight on her hands in court. It would be hard to win with TBL.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 9:01:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jm0502]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: I was initially against the county persecutor, but now give him a pass. You know he didn't have the video, just the report written by the crazy dude and the defendant's (lack of) criminal history. And what did he do? He shitcanned the resisting an officer charge and deferred (keep your nose clean for six months and I'll drop it) the speeding ticket and failure to ID. Then when the whole world saw the video, he dropped those too, with a public statement that he can't prosecute those charges based on words of an unreliable arresting officer. What hasn't happened and needs to happen is expunging her arrest record. Isn't even out of high school and now has an arrest record due to zero fault of her own. What a great way to start an adult life. All of his other arrests that involved resisting an officer charge need to be looked at. This is not the first time hes done it at this department. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 9:11:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heavy260: Cop is fired. Second cop needs to be scrutinized also for his coaching to cover ass. Chief needs to be looked at also for lack of investigation. If it wasn't for the interwebs the girl would have a hell of a fight on her hands in court. It would be hard to win with TBL. investigate the whole department. If for no other reason than the time it took to get the matter handled. The department had all the information, the video, the statements and still chose to let that girl go through the process. |
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 9:11:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. You don’t????  Wow.And yes, shit does roll downhill. And who’s at the bottom of the hill in these cases? The public. So who ends up getting shit on?? People just like the girl in the video. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 9:27:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stangwagon: They’re cops, that’s what’s wrong with them Oh boy, give it a rest. The broad brush strokes are just stupid. Are there bad cops? No fucking shit. Are there great cops? Absolutely. In the event you're 17 and have no life experience, I will let you in on one of life's little secrets: there are assholes in EVERY profession. That does not equate to every individual in that profession as being an asshole. |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 9:54:22 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex: Oh boy, give it a rest. The broad brush strokes are just stupid. Are there bad cops? No fucking shit. Are there great cops? Absolutely. In the event you're 17 and have no life experience, I will let you in on one of life's little secrets: there are assholes in EVERY profession. That does not equate to every individual in that profession as being an asshole. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex: Originally Posted By stangwagon: They’re cops, that’s what’s wrong with them Oh boy, give it a rest. The broad brush strokes are just stupid. Are there bad cops? No fucking shit. Are there great cops? Absolutely. In the event you're 17 and have no life experience, I will let you in on one of life's little secrets: there are assholes in EVERY profession. That does not equate to every individual in that profession as being an asshole. Very sage and accurate advice. The only thing I would add is most assholes are just annoyances that don’t matter. Some are assholes that can put you in a cage and ruin your life. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:24:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LawyerUp]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustAnother10-32: 2.1 million views in 2 days! Good stuff @LawyerUp. More like 4 days, but still good, and still going, lol. Here's the comparison to my highest view video, for the same time frame. Way, way higher. That one has 4M views, so this one I would assume will go beyond that.  eta: not sure why it won't post... anyways, the other one was around 1.2M in the same number of days; looking at the revenue, the new one in 2.4M views has already earned as much money as the other one after 4M views total. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Very sage and accurate advice. The only thing I would add is most assholes are just annoyances that don’t matter. Some are assholes that can put you in a cage and ruin your life. This girl got put in a cage, and while her life isn't ruined...every time somebody asks if she's ever been arrested, she's got some explaining to do, and is at high risk of being passed over in favor of somebody who hasn't ever been arrested. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:31:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dorobuta]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: How do you believe that someone outside of the military is "forced" to follow orders they disagree with? "Place your hands on your head and walk towards me." feel free to disobey that order.... "You are ordered to appear before this Court on this date." or that one, even if you think the charge is BS. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:32:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: "Place your hands on your head and walk towards me." feel free to disobey that order.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: How do you believe that someone outside of the military is "forced" to follow orders they disagree with? "Place your hands on your head and walk towards me." feel free to disobey that order.... Are you actually that confused about the context of the conversation? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:35:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dorobuta]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Are you actually that confused about the context of the conversation? No, just that there are orders given to civilians that they have to comply with. You cannot make the blanket statement that none exist. I am deliberately using hyperbole to make a point - it isn't as black and white as you may think it is. And yes, I agree that orders WITHIN an organization need to be scrutinized for legality and morality. But it is possible that scenarios exist that may make it appear there is no alternative to having to carry out the order. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:51:31 AM EDT
[#30]
I SAID.... RESPEKT MUH AUTHORITAY!!!
I really do appreciate the good work law enforcement does in our Society on a daily basis... But then there's officers like this shitbag... What is the solution to this? Do we need to fix the legal codes so that there aren't so many contradictory laws to enforce? Is this a training thing? Do we need to re-instill some kind of Bushido/Chivalry/monastic code for law enforcement? Yeah... yeah... isolated incidents... thousands of contacts a day... percentages... But how many of those contacts are not getting reported like this one is that are equally as bad? Yes... I understand the obverse could be equally as true... but we aren't seeing that are we? |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:55:32 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: I was initially against the county persecutor, but now give him a pass. You know he didn't have the video, just the report written by the crazy dude and the defendant's (lack of) criminal history. And what did he do? He shitcanned the resisting an officer charge and deferred (keep your nose clean for six months and I'll drop it) the speeding ticket and failure to ID. Then when the whole world saw the video, he dropped those too, with a public statement that he can't prosecute those charges based on words of an unreliable arresting officer. What hasn't happened and needs to happen is expunging her arrest record. Isn't even out of high school and now has an arrest record due to zero fault of her own. What a great way to start an adult life. Except the county persecutor put out a press release saying that people are required to obey officer requests. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:56:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VACaver: REALLY??? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VACaver: Originally Posted By Imzadi: Nobody outside of the military is forced to follow orders they disagree with. They do so by choice. REALLY??? Yes. Really. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 10:57:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: No, just that there are orders given to civilians that they have to comply with. You cannot make the blanket statement that none exist. I am deliberately using hyperbole to make a point - it isn't as black and white as you may think it is. And yes, I agree that orders WITHIN an organization need to be scrutinized for legality and morality. But it is possible that scenarios exist that may make it appear there is no alternative to having to carry out the order. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Are you actually that confused about the context of the conversation? No, just that there are orders given to civilians that they have to comply with. You cannot make the blanket statement that none exist. I am deliberately using hyperbole to make a point - it isn't as black and white as you may think it is. And yes, I agree that orders WITHIN an organization need to be scrutinized for legality and morality. But it is possible that scenarios exist that may make it appear there is no alternative to having to carry out the order. I was very obviously talking about orders from a job. But thank you for the meaningless distraction. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:01:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RevDeadCorpse: I SAID.... RESPEKT MUH AUTHORITAY!!! I really do appreciate the good work law enforcement does in our Society on a daily basis... But then there's officers like this shitbag... What is the solution to this? Do we need to fix the legal codes so that there aren't so many contradictory laws to enforce? Is this a training thing? Do we need to re-instill some kind of Bushido/Chivalry/monastic code for law enforcement? Yeah... yeah... isolated incidents... thousands of contacts a day... percentages... But how many of those contacts are not getting reported like this one is that are equally as bad? Yes... I understand the obverse could be equally as true... but we aren't seeing that are we? I suspect there's a few things that could help. Psychological screening during the interview process goes a long way, though it's not perfect. I know of a couple fleo's that made it through this process that shouldn't have. Body cams obviously help, especially when operated correctly to capture the entire encounter. Working in pairs helps. Unfortunately, some of these small towns simply don't have the funds for all of these measures. Some of the really small towns that only have a few cops receive shockingly little training. Whether that be in judgemental pistol shoots, legal education, crime scene training, you name it. My brother was an attorney involved in some such cases with small town leo's. He had numerous stories about well intentioned cops fucking over their own cases because of a total lack of forensics training or evidence handling. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:11:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vne: I suspect there's a few things that could help. Psychological screening during the interview process goes a long way, though it's not perfect. I know of a couple fleo's that made it through this process that shouldn't have. Body cams obviously help, especially when operated correctly to capture the entire encounter. Working in pairs helps. Unfortunately, some of these small towns simply don't have the funds for all of these measures. Some of the really small towns that only have a few cops receive shockingly little training. Whether that be in judgemental pistol shoots, legal education, crime scene training, you name it. My brother was an attorney involved in some such cases with small town leo's. He had numerous stories about well intentioned cops fucking over their own cases because of a total lack of forensics training or evidence handling. A lot of these videos have their own agendas.... that comes through pretty clearly. From attorneys trying to drum up business to anti-LEO types trying to paint all LEO as horrible. But what comes across over all... is that there is something fundamentally wrong with what we expect law enforcement to do... Something that leads to "small dick with a badge" videos like this one... That makes even South Park call them out. It isn't just "power corrupts"... That's too easy... Dunno... It's been a while since I took a psych course. Correlation isn't causation... but I still think that with this much smoke... there's a fire in there somewhere. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:11:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vne: I suspect there's a few things that could help. Psychological screening during the interview process goes a long way, though it's not perfect. I know of a couple fleo's that made it through this process that shouldn't have. Body cams obviously help, especially when operated correctly to capture the entire encounter. Working in pairs helps. Unfortunately, some of these small towns simply don't have the funds for all of these measures. Some of the really small towns that only have a few cops receive shockingly little training. Whether that be in judgemental pistol shoots, legal education, crime scene training, you name it. My brother was an attorney involved in some such cases with small town leo's. He had numerous stories about well intentioned cops fucking over their own cases because of a total lack of forensics training or evidence handling. If the tiny towns can't afford a proper police department, they don't need one at all. |
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:12:35 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: I was initially against the county persecutor, but now give him a pass. You know he didn't have the video, just the report written by the crazy dude and the defendant's (lack of) criminal history. And what did he do? He shitcanned the resisting an officer charge and deferred (keep your nose clean for six months and I'll drop it) the speeding ticket and failure to ID. Then when the whole world saw the video, he dropped those too, with a public statement that he can't prosecute those charges based on words of an unreliable arresting officer. What hasn't happened and needs to happen is expunging her arrest record. Isn't even out of high school and now has an arrest record due to zero fault of her own. What a great way to start an adult life. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: Originally Posted By haveTwo: So it's okay to follow illegal orders? They have no choice? I'm all for crucifying the council on this one as well, and the DA. They were all okay with what the cop did, and the DA had no problem charging the girl right up until the public got ahold of the actual video. I was initially against the county persecutor, but now give him a pass. You know he didn't have the video, just the report written by the crazy dude and the defendant's (lack of) criminal history. And what did he do? He shitcanned the resisting an officer charge and deferred (keep your nose clean for six months and I'll drop it) the speeding ticket and failure to ID. Then when the whole world saw the video, he dropped those too, with a public statement that he can't prosecute those charges based on words of an unreliable arresting officer. What hasn't happened and needs to happen is expunging her arrest record. Isn't even out of high school and now has an arrest record due to zero fault of her own. What a great way to start an adult life. So he took the officer at his word instead of reviewing evidence before charging the gal? And kept the other charges until public outcry. Yeah, I'm not so keen on letting the prosecutor off the hook. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:19:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: This girl got put in a cage, and while her life isn't ruined...every time somebody asks if she's ever been arrested, she's got some explaining to do, and is at high risk of being passed over in favor of somebody who hasn't ever been arrested. Isn't there a way that it can wiped off the system? If not this Officer has placed a lifetime burden on this girl and she should be compensated for their mistake. Think about how easily a LEO can ruin job opportunities later in life from their mistake? Resume reviewers are not taking the time in most cases to review they why. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:23:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: If the tiny towns can't afford a proper police department, they don't need one at all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By Vne: I suspect there's a few things that could help. Psychological screening during the interview process goes a long way, though it's not perfect. I know of a couple fleo's that made it through this process that shouldn't have. Body cams obviously help, especially when operated correctly to capture the entire encounter. Working in pairs helps. Unfortunately, some of these small towns simply don't have the funds for all of these measures. Some of the really small towns that only have a few cops receive shockingly little training. Whether that be in judgemental pistol shoots, legal education, crime scene training, you name it. My brother was an attorney involved in some such cases with small town leo's. He had numerous stories about well intentioned cops fucking over their own cases because of a total lack of forensics training or evidence handling. If the tiny towns can't afford a proper police department, they don't need one at all. These are problems those towns inadvertently create for themselves. It starts by some small town getting their law enforcement through a contract with a neighboring town. But inevitably that department is strung thin, so they're slow to react, people get frustrated with the lengthy response times or the perceived preference for the cops to deal with crime in town A more so than town B. But town B is paying for this service with the people's tax dollars. When they get frustrated enough, the people in town B will vote in members to the city council that support town B getting their own police department. So they get it, but the town funds are thin and they can't afford to send their 5 officers to top notch training. They graduated from a 2 year community college for criminal justice and that will remain the majority of their career's training. But the people are getting what they voted for. Even in this scenario, most police encounters will be fine. A lot of it depends on the attitude of the cleo. But as soon as you get a bad cleo it's all too easy for bad shit to start to happen. Just look at Ava, MO. But the point is, there's almost a natural, even inevitable path these things go down. There is no such thing as a flawless police department. No matter how hard they try. And unfortunately, some don't try at all. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:26:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex: Oh boy, give it a rest. The broad brush strokes are just stupid. Are there bad cops? No fucking shit. Are there great cops? Absolutely. In the event you're 17 and have no life experience, I will let you in on one of life's little secrets: there are assholes in EVERY profession. That does not equate to every individual in that profession as being an asshole. When you are the sole group responsible for this, you gotta keep the bad out so the good won't suffer. I don't envy anyone that's a LEO, luckily our Sheriff does a good job in his selection and discipline of his officers. Had one former cadet that interviewed to be a LEO, I sat with a Captain for over a hour talking about him and asking questions. |
|
|
|
ME, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:29:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Cop seemed like a dick to me.
I really struggle with law enforcement today and public perception. Most of the click bait videos we see would be avoided if cops would simply be a little less "dickish" when dealing with people. "Hi I'm Officer so and so from whatever agency. Reason for stopping you is XYZ, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance?" "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Seems pretty straight forward to me. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:41:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Cop seemed like a dick to me. I really struggle with law enforcement today and public perception. Most of the click bait videos we see would be avoided if cops would simply be a little less "dickish" when dealing with people. "Hi I'm Officer so and so from whatever agency. Reason for stopping you is XYZ, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance?" "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Seems pretty straight forward to me. Close, but your statements still used weasel words. If it’s an order say it’s an order. If it’s a request it’s a request. Heck, you use them interchangeably and they certainly aren’t. |
|
|
ME, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:45:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Close, but your statements still used weasel words. If it's an order say it's an order. If it's a request it's a request. Heck, you use them interchangeably and they certainly aren't. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:48:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: It is more polite to ask, then explain if it is an order when they refuse. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Close, but your statements still used weasel words. If it's an order say it's an order. If it's a request it's a request. Heck, you use them interchangeably and they certainly aren't. But you aren’t legally required to obey polite asks. When you conflate the two you blur the line. Lawful orders must be obeyed, polite asks can be declined. In your example, why is one “request” something that could lead to arrest and the other not? |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 11:58:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Cop is a cunt and a punk .
|
|
|
ME, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 12:55:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: But you aren't legally required to obey polite asks. When you conflate the two you blur the line. Lawful orders must be obeyed, polite asks can be declined. In your example, why is one "request" something that could lead to arrest and the other not? |
|
|
MD, USA
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 1:37:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Isn’t the town meeting over this incident tonight? Hoping someone is able to post the synopsis of it. Livestream would be even better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 4:00:28 PM EDT
[#48]
 My VIDEO Gets Cop FIRED in record time! | UPDATE! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 4:20:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: You God Damn right I blame them. From keeping people away from church, enforcing mask mandates, standing by while the cities burned UNLESS a citizen tried to stop the mob from ruining their businesses, homes, and lives. Fuck yeah I blame them. You see, it doesn't matter if you are told to not do your job, or don't do your job because you're a piece of shit by nature. You are still USELESS to me. Extra points when you are being useless on my dime. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2024 4:22:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: daveo]
[#50]
Quote HistoryExcellent! the last minute or two of that video are important... |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
