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USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 4:31:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Which request are specifically referring to? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: But you aren't legally required to obey polite asks. When you conflate the two you blur the line. Lawful orders must be obeyed, polite asks can be declined. In your example, why is one "request" something that could lead to arrest and the other not? When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: request verb requested; requesting; requests transitive verb 1 : to make a request to or of requested her to write a paper 2 : to ask as a favor or privilege requests to be excused 3 obsolete : to ask (a person) to come or go to a thing or place 4 : to ask for requested a brief delay But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryAhh, it was the fog. That’s why he had to drag her out. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:10:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Cop seemed like a dick to me. I really struggle with law enforcement today and public perception. Most of the click bait videos we see would be avoided if cops would simply be a little less "dickish" when dealing with people. "Hi I'm Officer so and so from whatever agency. Reason for stopping you is XYZ, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance?" "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Seems pretty straight forward to me. What I don't get is why so many cops engage in these stupid fuck fuck games with 1st Amendment auditors and the like. Write a ticket or make an arrest or just leave. Sitting there detaining people for an ID for a hour because "we got a call", is ridiculous. And if it's not a crime but you just want to be nosy with no reasonable suspicion well, that's just how life goes sometimes and you gotta walk away. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:18:29 PM EDT
[#4]
town council meeting is tonight for this incident I think. Not sure if it will be broadcast on internet or not. Maybe Youtube will host the festivities, lol. Would love a front row seat there.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:27:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: What I don't get is why so many cops engage in these stupid fuck fuck games with 1st Amendment auditors and the like. Write a ticket or make an arrest or just leave. Sitting there detaining people for an ID for a hour because "we got a call", is ridiculous. And if it's not a crime but you just want to be nosy with no reasonable suspicion well, that's just how life goes sometimes and you gotta walk away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: Originally Posted By IceDiver: Cop seemed like a dick to me. I really struggle with law enforcement today and public perception. Most of the click bait videos we see would be avoided if cops would simply be a little less "dickish" when dealing with people. "Hi I'm Officer so and so from whatever agency. Reason for stopping you is XYZ, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance?" "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Seems pretty straight forward to me. What I don't get is why so many cops engage in these stupid fuck fuck games with 1st Amendment auditors and the like. Write a ticket or make an arrest or just leave. Sitting there detaining people for an ID for a hour because "we got a call", is ridiculous. And if it's not a crime but you just want to be nosy with no reasonable suspicion well, that's just how life goes sometimes and you gotta walk away. Because they've been told to get an ID from everyone they interact with. And they wrongfully think that their word is law. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wobblin-Goblin]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heavy260: Cop is fired. Second cop needs to be scrutinized also for his coaching to cover ass. Chief needs to be looked at also for lack of investigation. If it wasn’t for the interwebs the girl would have a hell of a fight on her hands in court. It would be hard to win with TBL. Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:38:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryThat's the kind of creative report writing that used to work before videos of the truth had to go and mess it up for cops. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:50:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. I wonder what the second cop thinks now after watching the video since he kind of knew already but had to back his partner up at the scene. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 5:57:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Except the county persecutor put out a press release saying that people are required to obey officer requests. That was the "Town Attorney". At first I assumed he was the city attorney and the prosecuting authority for the case, then I realized it was a "city" of 1800 people and the county prosecutor was responsible for the criminal case. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 6:04:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Originally Posted By heavy260: Cop is fired. Second cop needs to be scrutinized also for his coaching to cover ass. Chief needs to be looked at also for lack of investigation. If it wasn’t for the interwebs the girl would have a hell of a fight on her hands in court. It would be hard to win with TBL. Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. I agree. First cop and the supervision chain are the problem set. Second cop didn’t do anything worrisome IMHO. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 6:13:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: I agree. First cop and the supervision chain are the problem set. Second cop didn’t do anything worrisome IMHO. The second cop, gave him a fair hint that he was probably fucking up... |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 6:14:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daveo: The second cop, gave him a fair hint that he was probably fucking up... But not enough of one. Maybe he thought the first cop was smarter or more covered than he was. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 6:17:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: But not enough of one. Maybe he thought the first cop was smarter or more covered than he was. Of course, he was going into this somewhat blind, he had no idea of the facts that are in the video. |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 7:03:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Because they've been told to get an ID from everyone they interact with. And they wrongfully think that their word is law. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By drerickson77: Originally Posted By IceDiver: Cop seemed like a dick to me. I really struggle with law enforcement today and public perception. Most of the click bait videos we see would be avoided if cops would simply be a little less "dickish" when dealing with people. "Hi I'm Officer so and so from whatever agency. Reason for stopping you is XYZ, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance?" "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Seems pretty straight forward to me. What I don't get is why so many cops engage in these stupid fuck fuck games with 1st Amendment auditors and the like. Write a ticket or make an arrest or just leave. Sitting there detaining people for an ID for a hour because "we got a call", is ridiculous. And if it's not a crime but you just want to be nosy with no reasonable suspicion well, that's just how life goes sometimes and you gotta walk away. Because they've been told to get an ID from everyone they interact with. And they wrongfully think that their word is law. I just went through this with our local Animal Control Officer who knocked on my door looking for the owner of a Pit Bull roaming the neighborhood. I tried to tell her where the Pit Bull lived, but that flipped a switch and she started talking over me, raising her voice treating me like it was a felony traffic stop. That rude bitch even demanded my ID. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 7:03:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Update video doesn’t have much to add. But he brings up the fun point of the cop putting himself to have to admit he is a liar. That would have been comical IF they still circled the wagons on that asshole.
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Posted: 4/23/2024 7:55:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnowboundinNH: I just went through this with our local Animal Control Officer who knocked on my door looking for the owner of a Pit Bull roaming the neighborhood. I tried to tell her where the Pit Bull lived, but that flipped a switch and she started talking over me, raising her voice treating me like it was a felony traffic stop. That rude bitch even demanded my ID. Have a collar with dog tag attached? Hand it to her and remark, "Woof!" |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 8:51:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnowboundinNH: I just went through this with our local Animal Control Officer who knocked on my door looking for the owner of a Pit Bull roaming the neighborhood. I tried to tell her where the Pit Bull lived, but that flipped a switch and she started talking over me, raising her voice treating me like it was a felony traffic stop. That rude bitch even demanded my ID. I hope you told her what she could do with her demand! |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 8:55:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnowboundinNH: I just went through this with our local Animal Control Officer who knocked on my door looking for the owner of a Pit Bull roaming the neighborhood. I tried to tell her where the Pit Bull lived, but that flipped a switch and she started talking over me, raising her voice treating me like it was a felony traffic stop. That rude bitch even demanded my ID. Did you tell her to go fuck herself then go fuck her mom? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2024 10:14:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnowboundinNH: I just went through this with our local Animal Control Officer who knocked on my door looking for the owner of a Pit Bull roaming the neighborhood. I tried to tell her where the Pit Bull lived, but that flipped a switch and she started talking over me, raising her voice treating me like it was a felony traffic stop. That rude bitch even demanded my ID. So what happen next |
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Posted: 4/23/2024 10:44:56 PM EDT
[#20]
How long until he is hired on by another departmen? Month? Weeks?
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Posted: 4/23/2024 10:59:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. well essplained and i agree with your perspective. eva k you. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:27:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HDSledge: Originally Posted By Imzadi: "Just following orders" Just like we did in the military even if we didn't agree with the orders given. The quotes you used don't change the fact that the police follow orders, it's not a decision they get to make. That is why the cops on the bridge in commiefornia did not immediately clear the bridge of protesters even though ftmp they want to enforce the law. Do you blame the cops for following orders from politically motivated superiors? Should they all refuse orders and lose their jobs? I just don't get it folks. Today we are told by the political class to blame grocers, suppliers, gas stations, for price hikes when the fault lies with stupid economic policies from the top. Do we now blame cops on the beat for the stupidity of their supervisors and the cop hating leftist traitors in positions of power? Bullshit rolls downhill and the guys on the bottom rung are getting the blame. Doesn't fly with me. Out. Several times in my life I stood up to higher ups and flatly told my bosses "no" when they asked me to do something immoral. It cost me a great deal at the time. I don't want to hear excuses. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:41:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar: How long until he is hired on by another departmen? Month? Weeks? He's going to lay low until the online outrage dies down, then go to some other small town department. Probably by the end of the year. ...but given this guy's track record and the temper that he showed after he turned on the BWC, it's only a matter of time until he screws up again. Cops like him just hop departments until they get decertified or screw up badly enough to end up with criminal charges. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:46:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VACaver: If she wasn't getting her ID for the cop, how'd it wind up on the ground when he ripped her out of the car? I'm guessing it was in her hands when he lost his temper. The convenience store video showed that she rolled the video all the way down after being asked, which contradicts the story that he concocted after using force. I think that he lost his temper from the very beginning when she didn't immediately roll the window all the way down and was looking for an excuse to go hands on after that. I can't believe that there are people actually defending this idiot. I don't know what it is about a government issued costume that makes some people so overly credulous. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:06:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. agreed! |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 6:32:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:07:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ClenbuterolDestroyer: He's going to lay low until the online outrage dies down, then go to some other small town department. Probably by the end of the year. ...but given this guy's track record and the temper that he showed after he turned on the BWC, it's only a matter of time until he screws up again. Cops like him just hop departments until they get decertified or screw up badly enough to end up with criminal charges. I'm hoping that his state's AG will notice him and start looking for charges to bring for his antics with this girl. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:20:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. You call it nitpicking, I call it being unambiguous. Heck, you say it’s not a request but in your sentence used the word request. Do you not see how that leads to confusion and conflict? If they want to be polite and ask first, well that’s just good manners. It it isn’t an order until it’s stated as such. IMHO. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:24:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Originally Posted By heavy260: Cop is fired. Second cop needs to be scrutinized also for his coaching to cover ass. Chief needs to be looked at also for lack of investigation. If it wasn’t for the interwebs the girl would have a hell of a fight on her hands in court. It would be hard to win with TBL. Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. By not policing their own? Again? (and again, and again, and again, and again...) |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:13:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: You call it nitpicking, I call it being unambiguous. Heck, you say it’s not a request but in your sentence used the word request. Do you not see how that leads to confusion and conflict? If they want to be polite and ask first, well that’s just good manners. It it isn’t an order until it’s stated as such. IMHO. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. You call it nitpicking, I call it being unambiguous. Heck, you say it’s not a request but in your sentence used the word request. Do you not see how that leads to confusion and conflict? If they want to be polite and ask first, well that’s just good manners. It it isn’t an order until it’s stated as such. IMHO. In my opinion being unambiguous and polite every chance you get would make these videos a unicorn. Leaving as little as possible up to interpretation of the law and professional courtesy would have had the world behind officer Simp if she didn’t respond to that in a REASONABLE amount of time. He’s not working on commission. No need to be in a hurry unless someone is wanting to fight or otherwise put the officers safety in jeopardy. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:27:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ClenbuterolDestroyer: He's going to lay low until the online outrage dies down, then go to some other small town department. Probably by the end of the year. ...but given this guy's track record and the temper that he showed after he turned on the BWC, it's only a matter of time until he screws up again. Cops like him just hop departments until they get decertified or screw up badly enough to end up with criminal charges. welcome, sir! love the username choice!! |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:47:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: In my opinion being unambiguous and polite every chance you get would make these videos a unicorn. Leaving as little as possible up to interpretation of the law and professional courtesy would have had the world behind officer Simp if she didn’t respond to that in a REASONABLE amount of time. He’s not working on commission. No need to be in a hurry unless someone is wanting to fight or otherwise put the officers safety in jeopardy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. You call it nitpicking, I call it being unambiguous. Heck, you say it’s not a request but in your sentence used the word request. Do you not see how that leads to confusion and conflict? If they want to be polite and ask first, well that’s just good manners. It it isn’t an order until it’s stated as such. IMHO. In my opinion being unambiguous and polite every chance you get would make these videos a unicorn. Leaving as little as possible up to interpretation of the law and professional courtesy would have had the world behind officer Simp if she didn’t respond to that in a REASONABLE amount of time. He’s not working on commission. No need to be in a hurry unless someone is wanting to fight or otherwise put the officers safety in jeopardy. The videos with cops acting nice don’t get posted near as often because they don’t feed the rage machine. |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:52:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: You call it nitpicking, I call it being unambiguous. Heck, you say it's not a request but in your sentence used the word request. Do you not see how that leads to confusion and conflict? If they want to be polite and ask first, well that's just good manners. It it isn't an order until it's stated as such. IMHO. I would always lean towards polite until no other option exists, but that's just me. I still stand by the intent of my first post. If cops would be a little less dickish and cartman-esq a lot of these confrontations wouldn't happen. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 11:52:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By morglan: By not policing their own? Again? (and again, and again, and again, and again...) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By morglan: Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Originally Posted By heavy260: Cop is fired. Second cop needs to be scrutinized also for his coaching to cover ass. Chief needs to be looked at also for lack of investigation. If it wasn’t for the interwebs the girl would have a hell of a fight on her hands in court. It would be hard to win with TBL. Disagree on the second cop. IMO, he looked at the situation and probably looked at it through the prism of his knowledge of the first cop being an asshole, and gave him a chance to walk everything back before having to deal with the certain backlash. First cop, being an asshole, didn't take the sage advice and here we are. Honestly, from my vantage point, I kind of like how the second cop handled everything. By not policing their own? Again? (and again, and again, and again, and again...) Again, I think he was attempting to "police" the first cop by telling him in their language that he was being a dumbass and that if he continued to be a dumbass, he was going to face consequences for it. And that's exactly what happened. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 12:21:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Ha, the update video so far is outperforming the original video. 615K views in the first 20 hours.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:07:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: The videos with cops acting nice don’t get posted near as often because they don’t feed the rage machine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Originally Posted By TAG_Match: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. You call it nitpicking, I call it being unambiguous. Heck, you say it’s not a request but in your sentence used the word request. Do you not see how that leads to confusion and conflict? If they want to be polite and ask first, well that’s just good manners. It it isn’t an order until it’s stated as such. IMHO. In my opinion being unambiguous and polite every chance you get would make these videos a unicorn. Leaving as little as possible up to interpretation of the law and professional courtesy would have had the world behind officer Simp if she didn’t respond to that in a REASONABLE amount of time. He’s not working on commission. No need to be in a hurry unless someone is wanting to fight or otherwise put the officers safety in jeopardy. The videos with cops acting nice don’t get posted near as often because they don’t feed the rage machine. I’m beginning to see a trend here. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 1:13:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LawyerUp: Ha, the update video so far is outperforming the original video. 615K views in the first 20 hours. I’m not educated enough to say if this is the reason, but I click on short videos quicker than long ones. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:45:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swolliepop: welcome, sir! love the username choice!! Thank you, Sir, and thank you, Sir. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:52:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beltfed308: Hope the town has deeper pockets than our young hero.  Walmart future leader And a jackass. Dude doesn’t have much going for him. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:16:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnowboundinNH: I just went through this with our local Animal Control Officer who knocked on my door looking for the owner of a Pit Bull roaming the neighborhood. I tried to tell her where the Pit Bull lived, but that flipped a switch and she started talking over me, raising her voice treating me like it was a felony traffic stop. That rude bitch even demanded my ID. Did you tell her to fuck off? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:30:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AmishElectrician]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: What I don't get is why so many cops engage in these stupid fuck fuck games with 1st Amendment auditors and the like. Write a ticket or make an arrest or just leave. Sitting there detaining people for an ID for a hour because "we got a call", is ridiculous. And if it's not a crime but you just want to be nosy with no reasonable suspicion well, that's just how life goes sometimes and you gotta walk away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: Originally Posted By IceDiver: Cop seemed like a dick to me. I really struggle with law enforcement today and public perception. Most of the click bait videos we see would be avoided if cops would simply be a little less "dickish" when dealing with people. "Hi I'm Officer so and so from whatever agency. Reason for stopping you is XYZ, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance?" "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Seems pretty straight forward to me. What I don't get is why so many cops engage in these stupid fuck fuck games with 1st Amendment auditors and the like. Write a ticket or make an arrest or just leave. Sitting there detaining people for an ID for a hour because "we got a call", is ridiculous. And if it's not a crime but you just want to be nosy with no reasonable suspicion well, that's just how life goes sometimes and you gotta walk away. When you spend your entire shift, job/career etc telling people what to do being the top cock on scene and controlling every situation and "winning" every situation. I suppose its becomes difficult to disengage and back out of the battle to fight another day. You see it almost universally in younger cops that gained their post-FTO confidence into arrogance and older cops that haven't grown up. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:38:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: That's the kind of creative report writing that used to work before videos of the truth had to go and mess it up for cops. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drerickson77: That's the kind of creative report writing that used to work before videos of the truth had to go and mess it up for cops. 
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:43:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Any info on the town meeting last night?
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Posted: 4/24/2024 7:15:32 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 4/24/2024 7:34:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cap6888: Any info on the town meeting last night? excellent question, in for that, too. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 7:44:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steelworker: WANE TV Update thanks for linking. as expected, very ambiguous feedback to the public, as expect from public officials. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:17:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Officer friendly got canned, charges dropped, city shut down its web page over public response.
 My VIDEO Gets Cop FIRED in record time! | UPDATE! Good job, John. Keep it coming. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IceDiver: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: When you said: "Would you mind rolling your window down a little more? No? OK, it was just a request so I could communicate more clearly." That's all around a request. Phrased as such and with no threat of force attached to it. The recipient is free to honor the request or not. But then you follow with: "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." Since Websters defines the verb request as: But then you couched it as being legally required and with the threat of force associated with it if the "request" isn't granted. Frankly, cops have played so many games with requests that I'm at the point as a potential jurors I'm inclined to see it in a negative light. If a cop "requests" someone does something then arrests them for not doing it, I'm inclined to consider that illegal force. Alternatively, if "request" is used interchangeably as a verb meaning it's non-consensual then anything done in response to a request may be considered coerced. "Please step out of the vehicle. You are legally required to exit the vehicle when requested on a lawful traffic stop. If you refuse you may be arrested." That is not a request. That is an order with "Please" at the beginning to be polite, and an explanation that it is legally required and the consequences of refusal. I swear sometimes we get so nitpicky it makes my head hurt. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:44:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhereg: Polite command. As I've explained to my son I can say "Please take the trash out." He and I both know it's an order, but it's couched in polite language and sounds way better than "Take the fucking trash out!" The only way a “polite command” with ambiguous terms works as an order is if we all accept that everything a cop “asks” is an order. Just realize that means no more voluntary statements and no consensual searches. That seems like a poor trade versus just stating when a thing is an order. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 8:46:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steelworker: WANE TV Update Let me get this straight: The community is DIVIDED on the issue, because some of them adamantly oppose the idea of the girl being tossed on the ground and some of them adamantly support it???? |
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