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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:07:26 PM EDT
[#1]
I for one trust the government and its agents to fairly protect my rights.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:34:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Based on objective evidence or your opinion? Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:42:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Based on objective evidence or your opinion? Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. First one looks like the sfst, aka subjective money dances? Are there objective measures in Florida law? |
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POL
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Posted: 4/24/2024 3:56:14 PM EDT
[#4]
After proving their innocence, is the innocent person reimbursed after proving they are innocent? Or does the JBTs lies and bullshit still stand?
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:16:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: In Misdemeanor DUI in Florida, you can't read implied consent for a blood draw unless three conditions exist: PC for an arrest, Hospitalization and breath is impractical. Pbts are inadmissable and the only instrument that can be used is the Intoxilyzer 8000 which is usually not mobile and only stationary at pokice stations or jail facilities. If those conditions are met, you can still tell the cop to pound sand. No State attorney is going to give any officer/trooper/deputy a search warrant for a forced blood draw in misdemeanor dui. Felony Dui with serious bodily injury or death is a whole other game. Generally forced blood draws are still governed by Missouri v McNeely case law here. Forced blood draws are a rare thing and governed very explicitly by case law. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Originally Posted By MHowski: Originally Posted By H8train375: I've made plenty of .000 g/210l arrests. I plan on making a hell of alot more if cannabis is legalized for recreation this year. Do they do blood draws for those arrests? In Misdemeanor DUI in Florida, you can't read implied consent for a blood draw unless three conditions exist: PC for an arrest, Hospitalization and breath is impractical. Pbts are inadmissable and the only instrument that can be used is the Intoxilyzer 8000 which is usually not mobile and only stationary at pokice stations or jail facilities. If those conditions are met, you can still tell the cop to pound sand. No State attorney is going to give any officer/trooper/deputy a search warrant for a forced blood draw in misdemeanor dui. Felony Dui with serious bodily injury or death is a whole other game. Generally forced blood draws are still governed by Missouri v McNeely case law here. Forced blood draws are a rare thing and governed very explicitly by case law. Can the person being arrested request an official blood draw if they blow zero and are still arrested bc the cop thinks they are on drugs but they know are not? I understand the results on those are not instant and they would still be arrested, but it could result in charges being dropped if it comes back clean. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:24:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. Which are known to produce so many false positives as to make them worthless from a reasonable doubt standard. lol. "My opinion is basically evidence...the legislature told me so!" |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:47:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MHowski: Can the person being arrested request an official blood draw if they blow zero and are still arrested bc the cop thinks they are on drugs but they know are not? I understand the results on those are not instant and they would still be arrested, but it could result in charges being dropped if it comes back clean. Yes they absolutely can request an independent blood test per Florida Statute 316.1932. Or if they want to give voluntary, that works too. And yes it’s a possibility the state attorney will no bill the case if it comes back with nothing in it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 4:50:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Which are known to produce so many false positives as to make them worthless from a reasonable doubt standard. lol. "My opinion is basically evidence...the legislature told me so!" Just stop. You’ve proven you know fuck all about DUI investigations. You and Have two are just making shit up at this point. SFSEs are validated via the three major studies. Colorado, Florida and San Diego. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:02:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Friends father was on a DUI jury. Defense asked cop to demonstrate the walk and turn test. Cop stumbles or something, says opps sorry.
Jury comes back, not guilty. Roy |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:04:03 PM EDT
[#10]
DUI can include drugs other than alcohol....
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:15:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Just stop. You’ve proven you know fuck all about DUI investigations. You and Have two are just making shit up at this point. SFSEs are validated via the three major studies. Colorado, Florida and San Diego. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Which are known to produce so many false positives as to make them worthless from a reasonable doubt standard. lol. "My opinion is basically evidence...the legislature told me so!" Just stop. You’ve proven you know fuck all about DUI investigations. You and Have two are just making shit up at this point. SFSEs are validated via the three major studies. Colorado, Florida and San Diego. How reliable are the SFSEs? Because I'm reading mid 80%. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:16:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: DUI can include drugs other than alcohol.... What drugs smell like alcohol? |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:17:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Do NOT consent to roadside hand-held breath testers.
Do NOT perform any field sobriety tests. Do not discuss your reasons for refusing these tests with the cop. If you are arrested, you must blow in "the big machine" (often referred to as "Breathalyzer" - but there are several others) after you have been arrested, or you will be convicted of refusal. The big machine is never something the cop holds with one hand. Understand that by the time the cop is asking you to do calisthenics on the side of the road, he probably has ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND that you are going to be arrested. Don't contribute to your demise. Let your lawyer make the case for the cop having no probable cause to arrest you, or for other technical reasons for excluding any test results. Give them your drivers license and any other mandatory papers. Then politely say, "I will not perform any roadside tests" and "I am not going to make any statements or answer questions." Then Shut. The. Fuck. Up. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:19:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: How reliable are the SFSEs? Because I'm reading mid 80%. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/standardized-field-sobriety-testing Tests sponsored by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration revealed that the HGN test is most reliable (77 percent), followed by the walk-and-turn test (68 percent) and the one-leg-stand test (65 percent). |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:23:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phungus: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/standardized-field-sobriety-testing Tests sponsored by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration revealed that the HGN test is most reliable (77 percent), followed by the walk-and-turn test (68 percent) and the one-leg-stand test (65 percent). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phungus: Originally Posted By Imzadi: How reliable are the SFSEs? Because I'm reading mid 80%. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/standardized-field-sobriety-testing Tests sponsored by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration revealed that the HGN test is most reliable (77 percent), followed by the walk-and-turn test (68 percent) and the one-leg-stand test (65 percent). Those aren't nice numbers for arresting people. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:25:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By SigSauerLover:....... Another attorney specializing in traffic cases, Pat McPherson, said officers will sometimes make an arrest at the beginning of their shift so they don’t have to worry about it for the rest of the night. “They arrest the first person,” McPherson said, then they don’t go back out. ... Happened to a guy here in Boca Raton. Female cop arrested a guy on a bicycle for DUI. Stopped him because his light on the handlebars was dim. Dude said that he took his biike to a party because he didnt want to drive. Admitted he had drinks. She busted huim for DUI because she got the rest of the night basically off. Other cops (fiends son) at scene tried ot talk her out of it and outright said it was bullshit. Apparently she does his often. Gets her DUIs early in her shift and spends the rest fucking off at the station. The other cops hate her. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 5:35:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FJB247: I'm not a cop but I've seen plenty of people driving under the influence of intoxicants other than alcohol. When the pill epidemic was in full swing you'd see guys nodding out while driving, doing 20 under the limit, swerving within the lane, and driving the wrong direction. They'd fail the field sobriety test but pass the breath test. They'd take them to jail and do a blood test where they'd test positive for something intoxicating. So Joe . . . If you are not a cop , how do you see all these cases with all these specific details that you. . . Just know ? |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 6:18:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Based on objective evidence or your opinion? Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. You mean the same ones I was certified to use and then demonstrated that the sober instructor could be failed for DUI? |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 6:20:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Those aren't nice numbers for arresting people. Probable cause isn’t as good and it’s a defined term. |
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Posted: 4/24/2024 9:59:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Probable cause isn’t as good and it’s a defined term. It might be probable cause in the absence of blowing a .000 But if someone marginally fails the gymnastics test despite blowing .000, I'd say it's MORE probable that they're one of the 25 to 35% of people who can't pass those tests when they're sober. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2024 10:44:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: It might be probable cause in the absence of blowing a .000 But if someone marginally fails the gymnastics test despite blowing .000, I'd say it's MORE probable that they're one of the 25 to 35% of people who can't pass those tests when they're sober. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Probable cause isn’t as good and it’s a defined term. It might be probable cause in the absence of blowing a .000 But if someone marginally fails the gymnastics test despite blowing .000, I'd say it's MORE probable that they're one of the 25 to 35% of people who can't pass those tests when they're sober. Don't think you'll ever talk government agents out of their complete belief in monkey dances or ouija dogs. The ends justify the means no matter the cost to the innocent. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:45:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LawyerUp: Probably because your buddy violated the 4th Amendment, rather than for the reason he gave you. It's pretty common that cops don't understand they can't necessarily just search a passenger's backpack during a traffic stop using the same RS or PC applicable to the car's driver. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LawyerUp: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: You would lose your shit if you saw the number of charges (misdemeanor and felony) that the DA's office simply dismisses whether it is a solid case or not.. Here are a few examples: stolen car with keys in the ignition, 2 ounces of Cocaine in the floor board of the car driven by the owner but owner doesnt admit to knowing it is Cocaine, guy gets into an argument with a girl (inside of her apartment) and literally carries her to the door and throws her out of her own apartment (he didnt live there or claim to live there), etc etc. My buddy told me about a teen he arrested after finding a large jar full of marijuana in his backpack, during a traffic stop. The backpack had the teens name on it, his school ID was in it, and was full of schoolwork with his name on it. The DA dismissed the charges because they couldn't prove the jar of weed in the backpack actually belonged to the teen. Probably because your buddy violated the 4th Amendment, rather than for the reason he gave you. It's pretty common that cops don't understand they can't necessarily just search a passenger's backpack during a traffic stop using the same RS or PC applicable to the car's driver. They told him he can search it. Everyone in the car said it wasn't their bag. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:02:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: DUI can include drugs other than alcohol.... And again, there is nothing reference this story, that mentions blood draws and or results. Jay |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:46:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Don't think you'll ever talk government agents out of their complete belief in monkey dances or ouija dogs. The ends justify the means no matter the cost to the innocent. couldn’t have said it better myself. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:49:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CouchCommando22]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: First one looks like the sfst, aka subjective money dances? Are there objective measures in Florida law? The breathalyzer and blood tests. The very things that prove one’s innocence, but are ignored because when you job is to take people’s freedom away, you don’t care what objective evidence is. They take the word of an animal that licks its own butt, and wrong more than 50% of the time, as a reason to trample over the fourth amendment. Does anyone really think they are going to prove their innocence once suspected of a DUI? |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 1:43:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: They told him he can search it. Everyone in the car said it wasn't their bag. It's amazing at how stupid some people are. In my younger days we were partying at a park after it's closing. Cops came and told us we had to go.. they were being pretty cool.. But my one buddy was the dumbass that always ran his mouth to make things worse. Cops asked if the could search his car. He said yeah sure I have nothing to hide. I knew for sure the dude had about 2 ounces of weed rolled into 8 quarters in his bag in the trunk. Deep. All he had to do was leave with us and he wouldn't have gone to the gray bar hotel that night. I mean the cops were being cool for the most part. Some people are just dumb |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 1:50:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H8train375: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Based on objective evidence or your opinion? Based on standardized NHTSA DWI (dui in Florida) detection procedures, and following Florida State Statute. Your opinion. Got it. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 2:00:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: It might be probable cause in the absence of blowing a .000 But if someone marginally fails the gymnastics test despite blowing .000, I'd say it's MORE probable that they're one of the 25 to 35% of people who can't pass those tests when they're sober. I'd probably be screwed. Ever since I tore my back up my balance and gate have been fucked. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 4:18:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By davekd7ds: News flash...alcohol is colorless, tasteless, and ODORLESS. It can't be detected by smell. ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, on the other hand, can be detected by their odor. Beer, whiskey, gin, rum, all have distinct odors which are easily identifiable. Many arresting officers have been caught in this trap on the witness stand...including a good friend (RIP Randy) who tried his best to educate them on the minute details after the fact. the MSDS sheets for ethanol don't agree with you.  Attached File |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 9:09:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: phungus]
[#30]
Sober drivers charged with DUI find lives ruined waiting for proof of innocence
From Clarksville to Murfreesboro, from Franklin to Goodlettsville, we found sober drivers charged with DUI, and because of a backlog in alcohol and toxicology tests at the TBI, they are forced to wait months for proof of their innocence. In the months that followed their DUI arrests, their lives crumbled. This popped up out of Nashville today. Maybe there is a problem with they way cops are trained and the methods used by them for DUIs? A google search shows this happening a good bit across the country. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 9:27:07 AM EDT
[#31]
5 pages for this. 2 pages for the MI drunk who drove into a building, killing two kids and seriously injuring their family members.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:21:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phungus: Sober drivers charged with DUI find lives ruined waiting for proof of innocence This popped up out of Nashville today. Maybe there is a problem with they way cops are trained and the methods used by them for DUIs? A google search shows this happening a good bit across the country. that’s terrible for those folks in the article and yet again, the police department’s could care less. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:28:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swolliepop: that’s terrible for those folks in the article and yet again, the police department’s could care less. I think one thing people should take away from this thread is how important jury duty is. I did mine on a DUI case and it was confusingly bad and should have never happened but it did. We did our best but in the end just couldn’t find any reason to believe the two cops involved and voted not guilty. Turns out, later down the road a newspaper article about the case had information we didn’t get at trail that proved we made the right choice voting not guilty. We couldn’t give that guy back any of the time nor money he lost. But we did make damn sure he walked out of that courthouse a free man. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2024 10:35:16 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZCOP: And again, there is nothing reference this story, that mentions blood draws and or results. Jay These details don’t matter in a slanted hit piece of an article meant to invoke outrage. 87% of gd’ers seemed to really gobble it up, however. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:12:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WI_Bill: 5 pages for this. 2 pages for the MI drunk who drove into a building, killing two kids and seriously injuring their family members. No one was disputing if he was drunk or not or if the cops were being assholes or not. The consensus is mostly the drunk was weong . The cops didn't do anything wrong and that's it. What is there to debate here officer? They aren't related to any degree there officer |
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